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Post by snow on Jul 28, 2014 13:21:08 GMT -5
I have to agree with you. My childhood wasn't the greatest, and, my father was pretty fanatic, but never to the degree we see in Jesus Camp. I watched the whole movie. Just about turned it off a couple of times, but thought if they had to go through it, I had to at least watch it. I cried in the church scene where there are 4 and 5 year olds crying and screaming for Jesus to safe them from being a sinner. That was the hardest for me to watch. It's child abuse as far as I'm concerned. Snow ~ Yes, that Jesus Camp film did take fanaticism to a whole new level ~ no doubt about it! I also had a hard time watching that documentary and wondered if some of those adults in the film didn't have a "few screws loose" to get so caught up in such an emotional frenzy? I felt really sorry for the young kids who were raised in that crazy environment and honestly felt the 2x2's wasn't as bad in comparison to that scene. However, both camps seemed to believe in "force feeding" their young with their eccentric beliefs, which is not good for any child. Some of those scenes you referenced in that Jesus Camp documentary actually made me cringe in disbelief! I think they pretty much would with most people. It was pretty awful to watch.
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Post by xna on Jul 28, 2014 13:54:40 GMT -5
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Post by rational on Jul 28, 2014 16:34:25 GMT -5
Rational ~ It sounds to me like you are saying that the strictness of the 2x2's probably contributed to you becoming an atheist for life, and perhaps if you were raised in a different environment, you might have even slid into being a Christian or theist? No. It was an attempt at humor which, as usual, failed.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jul 28, 2014 17:25:39 GMT -5
A quote from the above link: “Children with exposure to religion — via church attendance, parochial schooling, or both — judged [characters in religious stories] to be real,” the authors wrote.
“By contrast, children with no such exposure judged them to be pretend,” just as they had the characters in fairy tales.
But children with exposure to religion judged many characters in fantastical, but not explicitly religious stories, to also be real — the equivalent of being incapable of differentiating between Mark Twain’s character Tom Sawyer and an account of George Washington’s life.
If a child hasn't been taught how to judge what is feasible by using critical thinking, how are they going to believe a religious fantasy is true while an non-religious fantasy is not?
No doubt that is precisely the reason that when a child is taught to believe that, example: "Jesus rose from the dead", they will also believe that there are indeed "wee folk living under toadstools!"
What tools do they have to differentiate what is real & what is fantasy? The fact that the adults around them are the ones teaching the religious fantasies just reinforce their belief.
Is it any wonder that when that child becomes an adult that it still doesn't have the tool of critical thinking to differentiate what is feasible & what are fantasies?
They don't have the tool of critical thinking to counter what they are being fed to them.
Example: "grey reptilian aliens living in the tunnels underground?"
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Post by dmmichgood on Jul 28, 2014 17:40:31 GMT -5
Rational ~ It sounds to me like you are saying that the strictness of the 2x2's probably contributed to you becoming an atheist for life, and perhaps if you were raised in a different environment, you might have even slid into being a Christian or theist? Honestly, I can see how all the rules of conformity in thought, dress, and required meeting attendance could turn anybody off to religion for a lifetime! It did a good job on me, too, after a few years as an outsider who professed around 15 years of age. However, when I attended college, the 2x2's soon disappeared from my radar. If my husband today had never professed, I probably would have been gone for good from the scene in my early 20's and would have missed out on all the controlling and manipulative behaviors of the workers over the years. What a shame! But, I feel confident I would have eventually found a church that met my needs without all the extra emotional baggage that came along with professing 2x2 style.
Rational & PNG ~ I would guess that both of your parents were not exclusive hardliners as some others within the 2x2's and that helped in giving you a broader outlook on life in general? Personally, I feel kids who came from families where they felt in bondage to all the rules and regulations of the F&W's, rebelled by adulthood and never looked back? I feel the biggest obstacle within the 2x2's was the exclusivity in their beliefs, which was a big turn-off to me even when young. I never could buy into that mentality and felt it was not a healthy or logical approach to life or religious beliefs in general. Perhaps that's one reason why I could move on to another fellowship eventually, although it did take me years to feel comfortable in any other church after 30 years of 2x2 programming.
That's why I say it only makes sense that a number who leave the 2x2's become agnostic or atheistic due to the problems associated with adapting to outside religious practices and beliefs regarding Christianity. Also, I can see why some even turn to New Age as an alternative to Christianity, since it's more inclusive than exclusive over all.
Faune, I did not become an atheist "due to the problems associated with adapting to outside religious practices and beliefs regarding Christianity."
I just took a look at the other Christian churches and saw that they were no different in basics than the 2x2's and that they were all based on the same fantasy!
So why would I even want to try to "adapt" to another form of fantasy? Or the Fantasy claims of any other religion, for that matter?
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Post by snow on Jul 28, 2014 18:14:26 GMT -5
Rational ~ It sounds to me like you are saying that the strictness of the 2x2's probably contributed to you becoming an atheist for life, and perhaps if you were raised in a different environment, you might have even slid into being a Christian or theist? Honestly, I can see how all the rules of conformity in thought, dress, and required meeting attendance could turn anybody off to religion for a lifetime! It did a good job on me, too, after a few years as an outsider who professed around 15 years of age. However, when I attended college, the 2x2's soon disappeared from my radar. If my husband today had never professed, I probably would have been gone for good from the scene in my early 20's and would have missed out on all the controlling and manipulative behaviors of the workers over the years. What a shame! But, I feel confident I would have eventually found a church that met my needs without all the extra emotional baggage that came along with professing 2x2 style.
Rational & PNG ~ I would guess that both of your parents were not exclusive hardliners as some others within the 2x2's and that helped in giving you a broader outlook on life in general? Personally, I feel kids who came from families where they felt in bondage to all the rules and regulations of the F&W's, rebelled by adulthood and never looked back? I feel the biggest obstacle within the 2x2's was the exclusivity in their beliefs, which was a big turn-off to me even when young. I never could buy into that mentality and felt it was not a healthy or logical approach to life or religious beliefs in general. Perhaps that's one reason why I could move on to another fellowship eventually, although it did take me years to feel comfortable in any other church after 30 years of 2x2 programming.
That's why I say it only makes sense that a number who leave the 2x2's become agnostic or atheistic due to the problems associated with adapting to outside religious practices and beliefs regarding Christianity. Also, I can see why some even turn to New Age as an alternative to Christianity, since it's more inclusive than exclusive over all.
Faune, I did not become an atheist "due to the problems associated with adapting to outside religious practices and beliefs regarding Christianity."
I just took a look at the other Christian churches and saw that they were no different in basics than the 2x2's and that they were all based on the same fantasy!
So why would I even want to try to "adapt" to another form of fantasy? Or the Fantasy claims of any other religion, for that matter?
It did get me asking questions though, which did ultimately lead me out of the world of religious beliefs.
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Post by open mind on Jul 28, 2014 21:41:10 GMT -5
Overall for me I am really glad that was my upbringing. I sit on the fence with this one. There are many positives and negatives in my life that i can attribute to growing up in the "truth" Positives being my morals, not getting invloved in drugs and alchohol (so as to get drunk and pass out), public speaking etc Negatives being social interaction skills, arrogance and disdain for others (still find myself acting like this and have to pull myself up), confidence etc..
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Post by faune on Jul 28, 2014 23:47:38 GMT -5
Faune, I did not become an atheist "due to the problems associated with adapting to outside religious practices and beliefs regarding Christianity."
I just took a look at the other Christian churches and saw that they were no different in basics than the 2x2's and that they were all based on the same fantasy!
So why would I even want to try to "adapt" to another form of fantasy? Or the Fantasy claims of any other religion, for that matter?
It did get me asking questions though, which did ultimately lead me out of the world of religious beliefs. Snow ~ My experiences within the 2x2's definitely got me thinking about what I wanted out of life and initiated a personal quest to discover what was true and genuine and worthwhile in my remaining years of life's journey. Perhaps the only thing I knew for sure was that I didn't want to end up again in another exclusive group of people who believed they were the one and only true church and looked down on others outside their fellowship, considering them lost souls headed for a lost eternity outside their fold. I was determined to find the exact opposite of what I had experienced for 30 years of my life and not rest until I reached that goal.
I also saw the value of exploring the history of religions and Christianity and discovering what constituted the real gospel message from extensive Bible study. Basically, I knew what I didn't want to experience again and adapted that as my guide in the years that followed the 2x2's.
Dmmichgood ~ I realize you don't think there was such a major difference between the 2x2 beliefs and Christian beliefs on the outside of the Truth fellowship, but I strongly disagree with you on that one. I discovered there was a major difference in beliefs centered around what constituted our salvation and basic Christian beliefs held by most Christians today.
From exploring different churches out of curiosity and getting involved in Bible studies and reading Christian literature, I began to realize what I had been missing in my spiritual experience for years. I wanted to discover more about God's purpose for my life and follow where it might lead. However, my first year after leaving the 2x2's, I was thoroughly confused and very scared about getting hurt again by man-made religion with all its do's and don'ts. I wanted something more out of church than I had experienced in the past, which left me feeling isolated, boxed in, and unsure of a number of things, including my salvation, due to the F&W's emphasis on outside conformity over spiritual transformation from within.
I may have taken a different path than you did after the 2x2's, but I don't feel exploring the outside Christian world was basically a waste of time either. I learned a lot over the last 20 years about what really matters in life and my faith in God grew in a number of areas where I felt stunted in the past due to the boxed-in mentality of the Truth fellowship. People I met along this way were a real blessing in my life afterward and I valued their friendship and input in my life, which was a truly genuine experience without the walls of denial up keeping out the light to my soul. How can anybody look at this list below and not see the real difference of an exclusive brand of religion and how it negatively impacts one's outlook on life and why some of these groups are labeled aberrant or cultic due to certain characteristics listed below?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_true_church
www.theholdemans.com/Compare.htm#only truth and practice
www.theholdemans.com/Compare.htm
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Post by rational on Jul 29, 2014 0:20:40 GMT -5
But children with exposure to religion judged many characters in fantastical, but not explicitly religious stories, to also be real — the equivalent of being incapable of differentiating between Mark Twain’s character Tom Sawyer and an account of George Washington’s life. If they were reading the Mason Locke Weems account of George Washington's life would there be a great difference?!?
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Post by rational on Jul 29, 2014 0:27:16 GMT -5
Rational & PNG ~ I would guess that both of your parents were not exclusive hardliners as some others within the 2x2's and that helped in giving you a broader outlook on life in general? In my case you are absolutely wrong. My advice to you would be to stick to what people have actually posted and not guess about the circumstances that are not in evidence.
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jj
Junior Member
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Post by jj on Jul 29, 2014 5:55:43 GMT -5
I agree... Some of those who was raised in the truth believe they had it rough.... Boy! you people are very fortunate in many ways... you don't know what BAD is for not raising in the 2x2 fellowship, so they see the grass greener on the other side of the fence once they leave homes. Yes, some have bad experiences in raising in the truth by their professing parents. The parents are not perfect but they tried to do their best. You can't really understand the way your parents raise you until you have children of your own.
I have known and watching those raise in the 2x2 fellowship for more than 35 yrs... You people have it good! and fortunate to be raised in godly homes, where your parents love you. You know where to return to once you want to do what is right. There are people out there don't know where to go, the world is like a maze, round and round they go in circle. In my opinion, it isn't the faith of the parents but the parents themselves that mold the child. I know plenty of folks raised in Atheist homes who are decent, kind, happy, and loving people. Parenting is everything. EDITED TO ADD: I do not blame the F&W way for my parents' abuse. Had my parents been members of any other religious group, they would have found a way to twist the scripture to fit their own agendas. But I must add that the F&W way was a trial and burden on me as a child being forced to wear my dresses below my knee when mini skirts were the style and not being able to participate in sports or extracurricular activities. When a child is forced to be different from his/her peers, it makes the child a target for ridicule and bullying. Which brings up another question... How is setting a child up for ridicule and bullying good for the character for the child? Then there's the "reward in heaven for suffering for Christ on earth" that I heard millions of times. I grew up hating God for making me suffer at the hands of just about everyone I knew. I can't vote, but I just wanted to chime in. I couldn't agree more, parenting is everything. I was raised in an loving, atheist household, with a very high moral standard. In fact, most of my extended family, and friends are atheists. Among them some of the kindest, most generous people I've known.
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Post by ellie on Jul 29, 2014 7:36:10 GMT -5
Oh my, what in tarnation? These poor children! I haven't watched all of it, but this video, makes my childhood appear broad-minded. My thoughts at least were for the most part my own, and I was left to make up my own mind on some things like evolution and climate change. By outwardly appearance, though, my childhood was traditional conservative 2x2. My parents were good parents, but trapped by fear of what the older generation and and the workers thought. Workers followed by professing friends held an elevated status. If workers or professing friends were visiting all other arrangements with non-professing persons, no matter how important were to be cancelled no questions asked. Pants were a definite no no in case some of the friends saw me in them. A number of activities were limited, and as a female my plans to continue education beyond high school were questioned. So I lived my teenage years attempting to reconcile being the normal teenage me with meeting 'professing daughter' expectations. I failed, so I left home as soon as possible and did a few stupid things and made a few mistakes but also married a wonderful and very non-judgmental man. So even though I'm still going to meetings I selected "On balance might life would have been better without that". Life has been better since I feel that I have a choice now (that doesn't reflect so much on my parents) and I chose to put behind some of those professing expectations. I have to agree with you. My childhood wasn't the greatest, and, my father was pretty fanatic, but never to the degree we see in Jesus Camp. I watched the whole movie. Just about turned it off a couple of times, but thought if they had to go through it, I had to at least watch it. I cried in the church scene where there are 4 and 5 year olds crying and screaming for Jesus to safe them from being a sinner. That was the hardest for me to watch. It's child abuse as far as I'm concerned. I clicked through some more. Do you refer to the dreadful water bottle scene starting at about 35 mins in? I still can't get over this film being released as recently as 2006. Grown up Levi from the film: www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYpcZZh6ilY
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Post by ellie on Jul 29, 2014 8:10:18 GMT -5
Oh my, what in tarnation? These poor children! I haven't watched all of it, but this video, makes my childhood appear broad-minded. My thoughts at least were for the most part my own, and I was left to make up my own mind on some things like evolution and climate change. I wonder where the line is that separates the acceptable training of children from the unacceptable. Perhaps the line is at the end of a piece of string?
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Post by rational on Jul 29, 2014 8:16:23 GMT -5
I wonder where the line is that separates the acceptable training of children from the unacceptable. Perhaps the line is at the end of a piece of string? Might be time to remove the string and let children think for themselves.
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Post by Annan on Jul 29, 2014 9:17:45 GMT -5
I sit on the fence with this one. There are many positives and negatives in my life that i can attribute to growing up in the "truth" Positives being my morals, not getting invloved in drugs and alchohol (so as to get drunk and pass out), public speaking etc Negatives being social interaction skills, arrogance and disdain for others (still find myself acting like this and have to pull myself up), confidence etc.. I am not arguing with you here, just commenting. Morals can be taught in any home and are not exclusive to the "truth". Lots of children raised in other denominations or Atheist homes are responsible adults today. What public speaking has to do with anything, I don't know. Can you clarify that one, please? I do agree with negative interaction skills, but in my case that was due to being forced to look different from my peers. I grew up with a lot of Catholic kids who were arrogance and disdainful of others. There are religious groups as well as racial groups, nationalities and societies that are taught arrogance and disdain for others. It's not exclusive to the "truth".
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Post by Annan on Jul 29, 2014 11:09:29 GMT -5
What public speaking has to do with anything, I don't know. Can you clarify that one, please? Public speaking is a skill that taking part in meeting can help develop. Being able to organize a few ordered thoughts in your mind without notes to speak about in front of a group of people (or even a convention building full or people) can be useful in life. Also learning how to fudge your way through a "speech" when your mind blanks or you don't understand the topic can help too! As I did not profess, I did not take part in meeting. That one slipped by me.
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Post by Annan on Jul 29, 2014 11:15:57 GMT -5
It's also been a good support system to have a lot of professing friends throughout college and whatnot. I think a lot of my problem growing up was that there were no other children growing up in the "truth" in our area. Our Sunday church services consisted of my parents, my sister and I (neither of us ever professed), two older folks, and my grandma/my dad's mother. Special meetings were long road trips away with no opportunity to meet anyone as we hurried in and hurried out at the end of the meeting for the long drive home. My parents didn't socialize.
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Post by snow on Jul 29, 2014 12:19:36 GMT -5
I have to agree with you. My childhood wasn't the greatest, and, my father was pretty fanatic, but never to the degree we see in Jesus Camp. I watched the whole movie. Just about turned it off a couple of times, but thought if they had to go through it, I had to at least watch it. I cried in the church scene where there are 4 and 5 year olds crying and screaming for Jesus to safe them from being a sinner. That was the hardest for me to watch. It's child abuse as far as I'm concerned. I clicked through some more. Do you refer to the dreadful water bottle scene starting at about 35 mins in? I still can't get over this film being released as recently as 2006. Grown up Levi from the film: www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYpcZZh6ilYIt's been awhile since I watched it, but if I remember correctly it was further in than that. They are in a church at camp and the adults are whipping them up into a frenzy. These kids didn't look older than 4-6 year olds, mostly. A few older ones. They are crying and praying frantically (to my ears anyway) for Jesus to save them from being sinners and from hell. That was the hardest part of me to watch. They totally believed, you could tell and by the degree of crying and some, screaming, it didn't look like a wonderful experience.
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Post by snow on Jul 29, 2014 12:23:54 GMT -5
Public speaking is a skill that taking part in meeting can help develop. Being able to organize a few ordered thoughts in your mind without notes to speak about in front of a group of people (or even a convention building full or people) can be useful in life. Also learning how to fudge your way through a "speech" when your mind blanks or you don't understand the topic can help too! As I did not profess, I did not take part in meeting. That one slipped by me. Yes, if you didn't have to stand up in meetings and talk, especially special meetings and conventions, you didn't get used to speaking in front of crowds. I also feel it was one positive. I ended up in professions that required me to talk to people, sometimes large groups. I don't think I suffered from stage fright as much as some of the other speakers did. Probably because I started at 8 years old.
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Post by snow on Jul 29, 2014 12:28:04 GMT -5
It's also been a good support system to have a lot of professing friends throughout college and whatnot. I think a lot of my problem growing up was that there were no other children growing up in the "truth" in our area. Our Sunday church services consisted of my parents, my sister and I (neither of us ever professed), two older folks, and my grandma/my dad's mother. Special meetings were long road trips away with no opportunity to meet anyone as we hurried in and hurried out at the end of the meeting for the long drive home. My parents didn't socialize. Sure know what that feels like too. We lived in a Catholic community and had nuns at the public school I went to even. My friends at school were all Catholic and I wasn't allowed to interact with them after school at all. We lived on a farm and I was an only child. Since I wasn't allowed to have 'worldly' friends it was very lonely until we moved to town. That was the best thing that ever happened to me back then.
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Post by faune on Jul 29, 2014 13:12:41 GMT -5
Rational & PNG ~ I would guess that both of your parents were not exclusive hardliners as some others within the 2x2's and that helped in giving you a broader outlook on life in general? In my case you are absolutely wrong. My advice to you would be to stick to what people have actually posted and not guess about the circumstances that are not in evidence. Rational ~ Perhaps I did make a mistake in assuming from both your descriptions that your parents were not like the very straight-laced parents who follow the workers to the letter, since you both spoke of having no regrets over being B&R within the faith? That was just a reasonable guess on my part and I could have been entirely wrong? I just figured that both of your parents were more balanced in their worldly view compared to some professing parents I have known in the past who worshiped the workers and followed their every guideline for their kids raising within the 2x2's to the letter? I know more than a few ex-members today who really resented the strictness of their 2x2 raising and all the workers' restrictions, along with all the things they missed out on as young adults due to being B&R within this faith. I felt it taught young kids to be deceitful, if they wanted to fix in with their peers and enjoy a few harmless pleasures as youngsters? You either withdrew into this narrow world view of the 2x2's or you bucked the system and joined the non-conformists among the youth? JMT
In retrospect, perhaps I have no business posting to this thread either, since I was not B&R myself? I professed as a young teen almost 15 years old, due to my father's previous exposure years before and his passing down the same programming of this Truth fellowship to his own kids, although he had discovered and left the 2x2's in his early 20's a few years later. In a conversation we shared the evening before his accidental death in a car accident (when I was 12 years old), he told me if I ever found the Truth, don't turn my back on it. I guess it was out of guilt feelings within that actually motivated my choice, as nothing outwardly about the group attracted me to it my Freshman year in high school? I also knew little about what constituted Christian beliefs, never really being brought up in church as a child. So, in my case, it was more a matter of ignorance combined with naive understanding of Christian teachings which brought me first into contact with the 2x2's as a teenager and was part of my introduction to the F&W's.
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Post by faune on Jul 29, 2014 13:19:55 GMT -5
I think a lot of my problem growing up was that there were no other children growing up in the "truth" in our area. Our Sunday church services consisted of my parents, my sister and I (neither of us ever professed), two older folks, and my grandma/my dad's mother. Special meetings were long road trips away with no opportunity to meet anyone as we hurried in and hurried out at the end of the meeting for the long drive home. My parents didn't socialize. Sure know what that feels like too. We lived in a Catholic community and had nuns at the public school I went to even. My friends at school were all Catholic and I wasn't allowed to interact with them after school at all. We lived on a farm and I was an only child. Since I wasn't allowed to have 'worldly' friends it was very lonely until we moved to town. That was the best thing that ever happened to me back then. Snow & Annan ~ I also found professing to be a very lonely life due to all the restrictions put on the young folks by the workers. It seemed they were so preoccupied with "dying to self" that they forgot how to live in the real world? Also, the limits they placed on socialization and school activities involving others in the world were also ridiculous and stifling. A message on Facebook from an old friend who went into the work when young and still is a worker today, spoke about being preoccupied with "daily dying" which I found quite sad, remembering how much I heard that message from workers growing up and found it downright depressing.
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Post by fixit on Jul 29, 2014 14:53:42 GMT -5
Sure know what that feels like too. We lived in a Catholic community and had nuns at the public school I went to even. My friends at school were all Catholic and I wasn't allowed to interact with them after school at all. We lived on a farm and I was an only child. Since I wasn't allowed to have 'worldly' friends it was very lonely until we moved to town. That was the best thing that ever happened to me back then. Snow & Annan ~ I also found professing to be a very lonely life due to all the restrictions put on the young folks by the workers. It seemed they were so preoccupied with "dying to self" that they forgot how to live in the real world? Also, the limits they placed on socialization and school activities involving others in the world were also ridiculous and stifling. A message on Facebook from an old friend who went into the work when young and still is a worker today, spoke about being preoccupied with "daily dying" which I found quite sad, remembering how much I heard that message from workers growing up and found it downright depressing. Daily dying to what? If the ministry and fellowship was more successful in daily dying to the things that matter then it would be a good thing. e.g. die to the urge to have sex with kids, and with folks other than spouses. Many have fussed over trivialities while committing grievous harm behind the scenes.
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Post by Annan on Jul 29, 2014 16:04:36 GMT -5
We lived in a Catholic community and had nuns at the public school I went to even. My friends at school were all Catholic and I wasn't allowed to interact with them after school at all. We lived on a farm and I was an only child. Since I wasn't allowed to have 'worldly' friends it was very lonely until we moved to town. That was the best thing that ever happened to me back then. I am assuming you had professing friends when you moved to town? My dad's brother married a Catholic woman. I remember my mother referring to her with ethnic slurs. As a result, I have cousins I have never met.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jul 29, 2014 16:06:39 GMT -5
The Jesus Camp is really like what Hitler did in Germany. Whip up a crowd to hysteria & you make make them do nearly anything.
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Post by faune on Jul 29, 2014 16:16:38 GMT -5
Snow & Annan ~ I also found professing to be a very lonely life due to all the restrictions put on the young folks by the workers. It seemed they were so preoccupied with "dying to self" that they forgot how to live in the real world? Also, the limits they placed on socialization and school activities involving others in the world were also ridiculous and stifling. A message on Facebook from an old friend who went into the work when young and still is a worker today, spoke about being preoccupied with "daily dying" which I found quite sad, remembering how much I heard that message from workers growing up and found it downright depressing. Daily dying to what? If the ministry and fellowship was more successful in daily dying to the things that matter then it would be a good thing. e.g. die to the urge to have sex with kids, and with folks other than spouses. Many have fussed over trivialities while committing grievous harm behind the scenes. Fixit ~ It seems wherever I looked within the Perfect Way, I found these double standards that didn't make a lick of sense! Appearances was all that matters and it had nothing to do with what was on the inside that was rotten fruit! It definitely also reminded me of Matthew 23 and those eight (8) woes to those teachers of the law who were preaching one thing and doing another! I saw plenty examples of this myself during my professing years, which is why I'm no longer within this Perfect Way of righteousness anymore, but enjoying my freedom on the outside. I have found these worldly churches to be considerably less exclusive myself in comparison to what I grudgingly endured for years within the 2x2's. If it wasn't for the workers' conditioning about going to Hell for leaving, I probably would have left years ago when my husband departed ( Oct. 1981) and I would have had less emotional baggage to deal with afterward, IMHO? Bitter or angry? ~ Perhaps, for not smartening up sooner and sparing myself additional grief by trying to change things from within? I wonder how many people fell down that same rabbit hole themselves and finally gave up, realizing it was a lost cause to begin with and stunting to their personal development to remain, hoping for change?
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Post by faune on Jul 29, 2014 16:29:39 GMT -5
The Jesus Camp is really like what Hitler did in Germany. Whip up a crowd to hysteria & you make make them do nearly anything. Dmmichgood ~ No kidding! Have you ever read Mein Kampf and wondered how such a mad man could have ever risen to power in the first place? That's one reason why these extreme Right Wingers scare me silly! Their concept of the end justifying the means taken to extreme resulted in a number of senseless deaths over prejudice and greed. You would think that people would learn their lessons from such depravity of mind, but it never seems to amaze me how history does repeat itself when the same kind of people come to power again within the world due to never learning from the past?
A while back I read A Concise Biography of Adolph Hitler by Thomas Fuchs and it sent chills up my spine to see how he came to power and abused the same and even used religion to justify his cruel deeds, while people sung his praises!
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mein_Kampf
www.amazon.com/A-Concise-Biography-Adolf-Hitler/dp/0425173402#reader_0425173402
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Post by snow on Jul 29, 2014 17:56:31 GMT -5
We lived in a Catholic community and had nuns at the public school I went to even. My friends at school were all Catholic and I wasn't allowed to interact with them after school at all. We lived on a farm and I was an only child. Since I wasn't allowed to have 'worldly' friends it was very lonely until we moved to town. That was the best thing that ever happened to me back then. I am assuming you had professing friends when you moved to town? My dad's brother married a Catholic woman. I remember my mother referring to her with ethnic slurs. As a result, I have cousins I have never met. Annan, yes I did for awhile. Then when I quit professing at 12 parents didn't want their children to be too close to me. It might be contagious I guess. So then I fought to have 'worldly' friends and after about a year I finally got to have friends outside of the church. My parents were pretty social once we moved to town, but they were older and so their closer friends usually didn't have kids my age. I did enjoy going to potlucks though where there were more kids my age.
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