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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2014 23:42:31 GMT -5
Overall for me I am really glad that was my upbringing.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jul 24, 2014 23:58:06 GMT -5
There should be at least one more option.
It wasn't a matter of "here or there."
There were both some things that helped me in life, but also that hindered me.
Some things that helped me, like not starting to smoke. Another perhaps concentrating on learning instead of trying to keep up with the "world".
Others things, like sticking out like a "sore thumb, " because of the way I had to dress greatly affected my confidence in myself.
So I can't make any vote
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2014 0:37:17 GMT -5
I don't know how/if I can add an option to the poll dmmichgood. I have tried but then not sure what your option would be: both a positive and negative influence?
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jul 25, 2014 0:39:21 GMT -5
With all due respect to my parents, I would have preferred to have been brought up with them hearing the gospel of Christ, not the gospel according to William Irvine, Willie Hughes, Willie Fynn, Nathan McCarthey and now the illustrious leader, Alan Richardson.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jul 25, 2014 1:16:16 GMT -5
My major memory of Nathan McCarthey is of him exposing himself to me at Pukekohe Convention, so Virgo, I'm just a trifle biased.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 25, 2014 1:28:47 GMT -5
My major memory of Nathan McCarthey is of him exposing himself to me at Pukekohe Convention, so Virgo, I'm just a trifle biased. My memory of Nathan McCarthy is that he wasn't adequately educated for some of the topics he chose to preach about.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jul 25, 2014 1:33:56 GMT -5
I do not know his standard of education but he did seem to tie himself up in knots, or was that nots?
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Post by Mary on Jul 25, 2014 1:45:27 GMT -5
My major memory of Nathan McCarthey is of him exposing himself to me at Pukekohe Convention, so Virgo, I'm just a trifle biased. Really, Nathan. I thought he was the most handsome man I had ever seen and as a young kid had a sort of crush on him. Glad he didn't know now I know what he was like. He even wrote in my Bible. I remember him sitting there with me on the seat at Puke convention writing in my Bible all those many years ago. I felt here and there answered the question of there was some good and some not good. The good was that I might not be a Christian today if I was not brought up in meetings without any Christian input in my life. So meetings was better than nothing at all. I can't think of anything else good about it at the moment. I would say it basically robbed me of my childhood and connection with my peers, gave me low self esteem and not able to be the person that God wanted me to be until I left meetings as an adult.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jul 25, 2014 1:48:31 GMT -5
Well well well, I do know a couple of ladies, sisters, both deceased that he had a crush on prior to him going into the work.
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Post by rational on Jul 25, 2014 7:58:16 GMT -5
I have no complaints about being born and raised in the F&W way. Meetings provided ample time for thought and who could find fault with someone reading the bible. Had I been raised in a more conventional religion I might have slid into being a christian. Or even a theist!
Plus I wouldn't have ever 'met' all the fine folks who post on these message boards. Perhaps all of you fine folks reading are the ones most negatively effected and suffering because of my upbringing!
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Post by Annan on Jul 25, 2014 8:52:55 GMT -5
Most of the time I can't separate my parents from the 2X2 way. My parents were physically and mentally abusive. The 2X2's didn't force them to be that way, but "the rules" and religious rhetoric sure helped reinforced the abuse.
In all fairness, religion of any sort can be distorted for one's own use or agenda.
I have to wonder where I would be in life if I had been raised in a loving home with a loving God. I often think I would still be an Atheist. I have a brain, after all.
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Post by mdm on Jul 25, 2014 9:29:41 GMT -5
I won't vote here, since I was not B&R, but I'd like to say that my children were raised in the meetings for the first 10-12 years of their life. We stopped going to meetings about 5 months ago, and they were devastated. They loved the meetings, the friends, the workers. They still talk about them, about "our" workers, about meetings. My 10-year old son just told me last night that he wants to go back to meetings. My daughter (12) is happy to not have to wear skirts "to church," and loves all the youth activities in the church, but still misses the meetings, friends, workers. Also, I find it interesting that atheists like to point to their brain to explain why they are atheists. I guess I am using a different body part to write this. Still trying to figure out which one - which in itself is a hopeless task, since it's not a brain, of course:) Incidentally, I was raised in an atheist home and environment, and it must have been that unidentified body part that got me to believe in God ever since I could think... with that unidentified body part of course.
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Post by blacksheep on Jul 25, 2014 9:39:25 GMT -5
First off, it is highly unlikely that my parents would have ever met had it not been for their involvement with this cult. I owe my very existence to William Irvine and company! I must never wish my parents were normal, or POOF, I'd vanish! I voted that my life has been enriched; because of my upbringing, I do not feel the need to fit in with fads and fashions, thus saving a lot of money for other things. I am very in tune when politicians are evasive and answer questions not asked. I am sensitive to hypocrisy. I know the two Commandments of the New Testament, and am able to recognize when folks try to replace quality with quantity. (I can't do that second one Lord, but if I do a bunch of other things, maybe You won't notice?)
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Post by rational on Jul 25, 2014 10:21:20 GMT -5
I won't vote here, since I was not B&R, but I'd like to say that my children were raised in the meetings for the first 10-12 years of their life. We stopped going to meetings about 5 months ago, and they were devastated. They loved the meetings, the friends, the workers. They still talk about them, about "our" workers, about meetings. My 10-year old son just told me last night that he wants to go back to meetings. My daughter (12) is happy to not have to wear skirts "to church," and loves all the youth activities in the church, but still misses the meetings, friends, workers. You can still socialize woth the members of the F&W. We have been for 3 decades and so far there has never been a problem. About 1/2 of my kids friends went to meetings. Let's not lump all atheists together. Either you believe there is a paranormal being or you don't. Why this is so could probably be the subject of more of these long discussion threads! Trying to visualize this..... Start a thread. I am sure people will be more than happy to give their opinions!
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Post by mdm on Jul 25, 2014 10:43:01 GMT -5
I won't vote here, since I was not B&R, but I'd like to say that my children were raised in the meetings for the first 10-12 years of their life. We stopped going to meetings about 5 months ago, and they were devastated. They loved the meetings, the friends, the workers. They still talk about them, about "our" workers, about meetings. My 10-year old son just told me last night that he wants to go back to meetings. My daughter (12) is happy to not have to wear skirts "to church," and loves all the youth activities in the church, but still misses the meetings, friends, workers. You can still socialize woth the members of the F&W. We have been for 3 decades and so far there has never been a problem. About 1/2 of my kids friends went to meetings. Let's not lump all atheists together. Either you believe there is a paranormal being or you don't. Why this is so could probably be the subject of more of these long discussion threads! Trying to visualize this..... Start a thread. I am sure people will be more than happy to give their opinions! We still consider our meeting friends to be our friends, and have not cut the ties. I was of course referring to the above post when mentioning the brain. Sorry if I have generalized. I have noticed though that intelligence, thinking, brain, reasoning, logic... seem to often be claimed as the reason for dismissing faith in something that can't be detected by 5 senses or proven by scientific method. I was just wondering if it ever crosses their mind that such claims imply that those who believe are not using their brains or are lacking in some thinking skills? I mean, we can all have opinions of each other, but it's common etiquette not to say everything that comes to mind... I would rather not know which body part my posts suggest as being the thinking part
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2014 10:45:11 GMT -5
Do I regret being born and raised in the 2x2 group? Yes, definitely. It is not a question of balance. Was it the worst thing that ever happened to me? Goodness, no. The worst thing that ever happened to me was racing my brand new motorcycle on a public road with my head firmly on the tank in go faster mode only to look up and realise that a roundabout was swiftly approaching that I definitely hadn’t prepared for. Was it the second worst thing that ever happened to me? Yes, probably.
I’d say I regret it less now than I did in the past. Like our good friend rational I recognise now that it played a key role in my journey to unbelief. Once I eventually came to realise how absurd and ridiculous the 2x2 system was (not to mention being a great big hoax), I also came to realise that my susceptibility to believe in 2x2ism meant that I could likely believe in anything. This caused me to re-examine everything I believed and I soon realised that 2x2ism wasn’t the only absurd and ridiculous thing I believed but merely one of many including virgin births, the concept of hell and the resurrection of the decomposing dead. My belief in the Christian God swiftly evaporated after that. I think now had it not been for my brush with such an obviously flawed version of Christianity, I may never have come to the place where I realised that the Christian God in which I believed only existed inside my head and, consequently, I may have remained forever in bondage to the beliefs, laws and prejudices of desert dwelling men long since dead. Matt10
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Post by snow on Jul 25, 2014 10:52:33 GMT -5
Do I regret being born and raised in the 2x2 group? Yes, definitely. It is not a question of balance. Was it the worst thing that ever happened to me? Goodness, no. The worst thing that ever happened to me was racing my brand new motorcycle on a public road with my head firmly on the tank in go faster mode only to look up and realise that a roundabout was swiftly approaching that I definitely hadn’t prepared for. Was it the second worst thing that ever happened to me? Yes, probably. I’d say I regret it less now than I did in the past. Like our good friend rational I recognise now that it played a key role in my journey to unbelief. Once I eventually came to realise how absurd and ridiculous the 2x2 system was (not to mention being a great big hoax), I also came to realise that my susceptibility to believe in 2x2ism meant that I could likely believe in anything. This caused me to re-examine everything I believed and I soon realised that 2x2ism wasn’t the only absurd and ridiculous thing I believed but merely one of many including virgin births, the concept of hell and the resurrection of the decomposing dead. My belief in the Christian God swiftly evaporated after that. I think now had it not been for my brush with such an obviously flawed version of Christianity, I may never have come to the place where I realised that the Christian God in which I believed only existed inside my head and, consequently, I may have remained forever in bondage to the beliefs, laws and prejudices of desert dwelling men long since dead. Matt10 Pretty much agree with this. If it hadn't been for the extreme prejudice and exclusiveness of this religion I likely wouldn't have thought much of it. However, it got me to question and made me realize just how exclusive all of Christianity is. That led to researching other religions and pretty much found the same in all of them to different degrees of course. The 'one god' religions are by far the most exclusive of all religions imo.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2014 11:56:56 GMT -5
i am glad i wasn't raised in the truth for i could see the beauty of the truth when it approached me...
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Post by What Hat on Jul 25, 2014 12:44:30 GMT -5
With all due respect to my parents, I would have preferred to have been brought up with them hearing the gospel of Christ, not the gospel according to William Irvine, Willie Hughes, Willie Fynn, Nathan McCarthey and now the illustrious leader, Alan Richardson. Well, I grew up with the so-called "gospel of Christ" and while I wasn't "born and raised in the two by two group" I might have preferred it, in the 80s and 90s, at least, although not in the 60s. You don't know what the "gospel of Christ" is about, until you have elders brow-beating your parents for church contributions even though your father is unemployed. That was common; the people doing the brow-beating thought they were doing the right thing, because nothing matters but "the gospel of Christ" and the church's work in spreading it. I've not heard of any similar incidents from the friends. I know quite a few ex-friends have a new and better way of looking at the gospel, but as far as I'm concerned the grass is just a different shade of green, not a better one. The real reason many ex-friends feel better in their new church is that they're just out of something they didn't like. Anyone who has migrated from religion or church 'A' to religion or church 'B' will always say 'B' is better, because to them, 'B' is better. And you're certainly entitled to say it is better, but if you say it's because of the theology, I'm not convinced.
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tom
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Post by tom on Jul 26, 2014 4:12:32 GMT -5
My major memory of Nathan McCarthey is of him exposing himself to me at Pukekohe Convention, so Virgo, I'm just a trifle biased. Really? Do you mean physically or that exposed the type of person he was. I just need to get that clear for myself.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jul 26, 2014 9:41:54 GMT -5
My major memory of Nathan McCarthey is of him exposing himself to me at Pukekohe Convention, so Virgo, I'm just a trifle biased. Really, Nathan. I thought he was the most handsome man I had ever seen and as a young kid had a sort of crush on him. Glad he didn't know now I know what he was like. He even wrote in my Bible. I remember him sitting there with me on the seat at Puke convention writing in my Bible all those many years ago. I felt here and there answered the question of there was some good and some not good. The good was that I might not be a Christian today if I was not brought up in meetings without any Christian input in my life. So meetings was better than nothing at all. I can't think of anything else good about it at the moment. I would say it basically robbed me of my childhood and connection with my peers, gave me low self esteem and not able to be the person that God wanted me to be until I left meetings as an adult. After reading in Romans and the predestination issue, I have to wonder IF being raised a 2x2 er or Christian would really mean anything? I mean If God knows whom He will save surely He can prepare those He intends to be saved to be willing for that, eh? Though I wished there had been a category that being raised int he 2x2 church was likely the best conservative way for me to be raised, though being brainwashed about the 2x2 to be the only true way since the workers were the only ones going 2x2 as Jesus sent his Apostles, etc..... Having gone through the beginning of knowledge that the 2x2 religion is nothing more then another manmade religion and that being in it doesn't guarantee anyone eternal salvation and never did! I also think that sometimes we were raised so protected that when we do take time in our adulthood to venture out into the world's ways that we find ourselves without the knowledge of how to deal with different things within the world's ways! It has its pro's and con's much like any other strict controlling religion has!
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jul 26, 2014 9:57:52 GMT -5
With all due respect to my parents, I would have preferred to have been brought up with them hearing the gospel of Christ, not the gospel according to William Irvine, Willie Hughes, Willie Fynn, Nathan McCarthey and now the illustrious leader, Alan Richardson. Well, I grew up with the so-called "gospel of Christ" and while I wasn't "born and raised in the two by two group" I might have preferred it, in the 80s and 90s, at least, although not in the 60s. You don't know what the "gospel of Christ" is about, until you have elders brow-beating your parents for church contributions even though your father is unemployed. That was common; the people doing the brow-beating thought they were doing the right thing, because nothing matters but "the gospel of Christ" and the church's work in spreading it. I've not heard of any similar incidents from the friends. I know quite a few ex-friends have a new and better way of looking at the gospel, but as far as I'm concerned the grass is just a different shade of green, not a better one. The real reason many ex-friends feel better in their new church is that they're just out of something they didn't like. Anyone who has migrated from religion or church 'A' to religion or church 'B' will always say 'B' is better, because to them, 'B' is better. And you're certainly entitled to say it is better, but if you say it's because of the theology, I'm not convinced. Personally, "theology" in other Christian churches may have better definitions and understandings over some vital parts of the bible...however as far as the people part of any church tends to eventually show up and be the same whatsoever. The main thing I like about other Christian churches, esp. those who are organized or admit to being organized is that they post their tenets of faith or belief and to me this is the integral part of obtaining and keeping the "right" type of church member. And I think if it was studied that the 2x2 church would say the same thing, for certain LS more or less told that to BM, when he pointed out to BM the 2 tenets of the 2x2 faith and that was the "2x2 itinerant ministry and the meetings in the home"....... The small group of Disciples of Christ that left the larger group from the First Christian Church locally, started out with ONE tenet of faith and that was "What Jesus would do"....or "Considering Jesus in all of our activiites and beliefs"......I hope they've continue with that one for I feel that's the b est ones as far as I know, so far! It is nice to be able to preread whatever church you may well like to "investigate" for personal reasons, what their tenets of faith are.....and I've liked that because there have been a few churches their lists of tenets of faith didn't "interest me"! So I didn't bother to darken their door! Now MY problem is again that the people part of any church can overtake any of them and ruin the "spirit" of the church and it's really bad when a district superintendent has come to the church to route out the pastor and can't for some odd reason!
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Post by dmmichgood on Jul 26, 2014 14:54:43 GMT -5
I won't vote here, since I was not B&R, but I'd like to say that my children were raised in the meetings for the first 10-12 years of their life. We stopped going to meetings about 5 months ago, and they were devastated. They loved the meetings, the friends, the workers. They still talk about them, about "our" workers, about meetings. My 10-year old son just told me last night that he wants to go back to meetings. My daughter (12) is happy to not have to wear skirts "to church," and loves all the youth activities in the church, but still misses the meetings, friends, workers. You can still socialize woth the members of the F&W. We have been for 3 decades and so far there has never been a problem. About 1/2 of my kids friends went to meetings. Let's not lump all atheists together. Either you believe there is a paranormal being or you don't. Why this is so could probably be the subject of more of these long discussion threads! Trying to visualize this..... Start a thread. I am sure people will be more than happy to give their opinions! Maja, I would also say, "Let's not lump all atheists together. Either you believe there is a paranormal being or you don't."
I did use my mind that is housed in my brain to work though all the stuff about religion to come to the conclusion that I don't believe in any paranormal being.
Other people will talk about their "heart" when describing why they do or don't believe certain things. To me, my "heart" is what pumps blood throughout my body!
I simply don't believe in the supernatural beings called by different names in the different religions from the past or now.
That is where the definition of atheism starts & stops. After that, my other beliefs such as Humanism begins.
PS:
Not believing in any god or gods past or present, -has the added benefit of not having to dissect which religion is right of any of the worlds religions and especially not having to ponder & worry about which Christian religion is the TRUTH!
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jul 26, 2014 15:32:08 GMT -5
My major memory of Nathan McCarthey is of him exposing himself to me at Pukekohe Convention, so Virgo, I'm just a trifle biased. Really? Do you mean physically or that exposed the type of person he was. I just need to get that clear for myself. Physically.
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tom
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Post by tom on Jul 26, 2014 15:36:33 GMT -5
Really? Do you mean physically or that exposed the type of person he was. I just need to get that clear for myself. Physically. Gobsmacked! Not disbelieving just ....gobsmacked!
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jul 26, 2014 15:40:43 GMT -5
My thoughts too Tom when this occurred.
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Post by mdm on Jul 27, 2014 4:13:44 GMT -5
You can still socialize woth the members of the F&W. We have been for 3 decades and so far there has never been a problem. About 1/2 of my kids friends went to meetings. Let's not lump all atheists together. Either you believe there is a paranormal being or you don't. Why this is so could probably be the subject of more of these long discussion threads! Trying to visualize this..... Start a thread. I am sure people will be more than happy to give their opinions! Maja, I would also say, "Let's not lump all atheists together. Either you believe there is a paranormal being or you don't."
I did use my mind that is housed in my brain to work though all the stuff about religion to come to the conclusion that I don't believe in any paranormal being.
Other people will talk about their "heart" when describing why they do or don't believe certain things. To me, my "heart" is what pumps blood throughout my body!
I simply don't believe in the supernatural beings called by different names in the different religions from the past or now.
That is where the definition of atheism starts & stops. After that, my other beliefs such as Humanism begins.
PS:
Not believing in any god or gods past or present, -has the added benefit of not having to dissect which religion is right of any of the worlds religions and especially not having to ponder & worry about which Christian religion is the TRUTH!
I don't have a problem with people using their brains or whatever to come to their own conclusions. I am just still stuck in my pre-K thought: why can't people be nice to each other and not put each other down just because they don't believe the same/look the same/walk the same....? Of course, I long ago realized why, but I still end up asking the same silly question.
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Post by rational on Jul 27, 2014 8:14:21 GMT -5
I don't have a problem with people using their brains or whatever to come to their own conclusions. I am just still stuck in my pre-K thought: why can't people be nice to each other and not put each other down just because they don't believe the same/look the same/walk the same....? Of course, I long ago realized why, but I still end up asking the same silly question. If we keep asking that question maybe some will have to look to themselves and find why that is true. I think at times people attempt to impose their beliefs on others as if they were facts and run into opposition.
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