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Post by guitar on Jul 17, 2014 15:40:08 GMT -5
Who signed Adam and Eve's marriage paperwork?
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Post by snow on Jul 17, 2014 15:41:37 GMT -5
The devil. They didn't need to get married until they both found out they were naked.
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Post by Scott Ross on Jul 17, 2014 16:17:00 GMT -5
Which still happens to this day. Usually a couple of months after finding themselves naked......
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Post by jondough on Jul 17, 2014 21:46:01 GMT -5
How please Adam must have been to discover a woman when he awoke!
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jul 18, 2014 0:36:22 GMT -5
Dunno about that, an extra rib or two would be more useful.
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Post by faune on Jul 18, 2014 1:04:51 GMT -5
Dunno about that, an extra rib or two would be more useful. Only problem here was that he never lost a rib in the first place according to man's anatomy.
www.rapturenotes.com/spareribs.html
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Post by rational on Jul 18, 2014 7:34:53 GMT -5
Dunno about that, an extra rib or two would be more useful. Only problem here was that he never lost a rib in the first place according to man's anatomy. ;) Or you could go with the first description of the creation of Eve: Genesis 1:27-8 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. God blessed them; and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the [al]sky and over every living thing that [am]moves on the earth.”
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Post by faune on Jul 18, 2014 9:03:39 GMT -5
Only problem here was that he never lost a rib in the first place according to man's anatomy. Or you could go with the first description of the creation of Eve: Genesis 1:27-8 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. God blessed them; and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the [al]sky and over every living thing that [am]moves on the earth.”Rational ~ Somehow I completely missed that first description, being so preoccupied with the Adam's rib story in Genesis 2. I can even remember reading one creationist's explanation that the human anatomy can grow another rib as an explanation, which was really far fetched, too! Talk about trying to justify something shared from Bible stories and pulling at straws to do so! LOL
I rather liked this explanation given below:
www.gotquestions.org/Adams-rib.html
www.s8int.com/adamsrib.html (Rib regeneration theory relating to Adam)
atheism.about.com/od/Bible-Contradictions-Genesis/a/Contradiction-How-Was-Eve-Created.htm
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Post by matisse on Jul 18, 2014 9:24:24 GMT -5
Do any apologists claim that the rib story is a foretelling of the discovery of X and Y chromosomes? Women have a full XX configuration while men, with their XY configuration, could be said are "missing a rib".
I do not believe it is a foretelling, myself, I'm just wondering if anyone has made that stretch.
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Post by xna on Jul 18, 2014 10:06:17 GMT -5
Do any apologists claim that the rib story is a foretelling of the discovery of X and Y chromosomes? Women have a full XX configuration while men, with their XY configuration, could be said are "missing a rib". I do not believe it is a foretelling, myself, I'm just wondering if anyone has made that stretch. FYI Apologist very much liked the 1987 idea of a single "Mitochondrial Eve", which has since fallen after new evidence. “mitochondrial Eve” as it turns out, has existed only in their minds, not in the facts of the real world." More here: www.trueorigin.org/mitochondrialeve01.asp
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Post by faune on Jul 18, 2014 10:23:07 GMT -5
Do any apologists claim that the rib story is a foretelling of the discovery of X and Y chromosomes? Women have a full XX configuration while men, with their XY configuration, could be said are "missing a rib". I do not believe it is a foretelling, myself, I'm just wondering if anyone has made that stretch. FYI Apologist very much liked the 1987 idea of a single "Mitochondrial Eve", which has since fallen after new evidence. “mitochondrial Eve” as it turns out, has existed only in their minds, not in the facts of the real world." More here: www.trueorigin.org/mitochondrialeve01.aspXna ~ I was just reading about Mitochondrial Eve as a possible explanation here and appreciated you clarifying this for me. Matisse surely gave us something to think about today and a puzzle to solve, huh?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve
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Post by snow on Jul 18, 2014 10:45:48 GMT -5
Only problem here was that he never lost a rib in the first place according to man's anatomy. Or you could go with the first description of the creation of Eve: Genesis 1:27-8 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. God blessed them; and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the [al]sky and over every living thing that [am]moves on the earth.”There are a few different versions of the creation of man and women. This one you mention would hint at there being a Goddess with God if they made man and woman in their image. For a patriarchal religion that belief wouldn't go over very well. There is also Lilith in one version. Eve wasn't the first woman if that one is to be believed.
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Post by faune on Jul 18, 2014 11:00:29 GMT -5
I found this interesting explanation by a creationist regarding the origin of the species that might interest a couple of you, who's also involved with Marine Biology and is a genecist.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRJE6mQ3PY0
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Post by snow on Jul 18, 2014 11:26:58 GMT -5
Nathan, I couldn't help but chuckle at the explanation. When God made man and women out of dust, the woman disobeyed so it was decided by god to make another woman that would be more submissive to the man, presumably because she came from the man's rib. Obviously he first made man and woman equal and when the woman acted like Adam she was condemned and accused of disobedience. Can't have that now can we... However, by making woman from a man's rib that was created from dust, how does this change anything. In a round about way the woman is still being made from dust because the rib was a man that was made from dust. And, it didn't prevent the church from blaming Eve for the downfall of man and the eventual need for Jesus to sacrifice his life. What seems to be left out in all of this is that Adam was 'equally' disobedient. It must just be a human thing? Not just a 'woman' thing?
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Post by faune on Jul 18, 2014 11:59:57 GMT -5
This thread reminded me of an Adam and Eve joke I read recently which was pretty funny.
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Post by snow on Jul 18, 2014 12:01:06 GMT -5
Nathan, I couldn't help but chuckle at the explanation. When God made man and women out of dust, the woman disobeyed so it was decided by god to make another woman that would be more submissive to the man, presumably because she came from the man's rib. Obviously he first made man and woman equal and when the woman acted like Adam she was condemned and accused of disobedience. Can't have that now can we... However, by making woman from a man's rib that was created from dust, how does this change anything. In a round about way the woman is still being made from dust because the rib was a man that was made from dust. And, it didn't prevent the church from blaming Eve for the downfall of man and the eventual need for Jesus to sacrifice his life. What seems to be left out in all of this is that Adam was 'equally' disobedient. It must just be a human thing? Not just a 'woman' thing? I believe there is more to the story about Lilth "Equality" disobedience. We will know more details of Lilith's disobedience in the next life. Well, Lilith became an enemy/Demon torturer of Adam, Eve and their children. I wouldn't be surprised to find out, that Satan has something to do with Lilith's disobedience... We read Satan tried to tempt and deceive Eve to disobey God's commandment in the garden of Eden.Yes there is probably more meaning to the story than we will ever know. However, I want to point out that according to the Bible Eve did succumb to the temptation of the devil. Didn't she?
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Post by rational on Jul 18, 2014 12:19:51 GMT -5
Yes there is probably more meaning to the story than we will ever know. I have no doubt that someone will step up and provide more meaning! But what if it is just a story with no subtext? Not a metaphor. Just a story. I suppose then it becomes silly and unacceptable so you have to gild it! Gild the farthing if you will, Yet it is a farthing still.Gilbert & Sullivan - HMS Pinafore
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Post by faune on Jul 18, 2014 12:48:15 GMT -5
Yes there is probably more meaning to the story than we will ever know. However, I want to point out that according to the Bible Eve did succumb to the temptation of the devil. Didn't she? What I meant was tempted= testing in deceiving Eve to eat the forbidden fruit. I wouldn't be surprised if Satan had tempted Eve into leaving Adam either. Who knows what really happened to Lilith Adam's first wife. We know the fallen angels have the ability of having sexual intercourse with human women to create their own hybrid race of demigods to rule the world. The Messiah SEED has to come from Adam and Eve seed if Satan was able to lead Eve astray then there would be no hope/Salvation for humanity.Nathan ~ Perhaps God created Eve to be the fall guy for Adam, knowing ahead of time that Adam would really screwed up in the Garden by partaking of that same forbidden fruit tree with Eve?
However, now you tell us that Adam had a first wife in this creation story named Lilith (Genesis 1) and that Eve came later in Genesis 2. Honestly, I had no idea Adam actually had two wives! Now that might just answer Rational's question earlier?
P.S. That second entry reminded me of that old saying ~ "Nothing like a woman scorned!"
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Post by snow on Jul 18, 2014 12:51:35 GMT -5
Yes there is probably more meaning to the story than we will ever know. I have no doubt that someone will step up and provide more meaning! But what if it is just a story with no subtext? Not a metaphor. Just a story. I suppose then it becomes silly and unacceptable so you have to gild it! Gild the farthing if you will, Yet it is a farthing still.Gilbert & Sullivan - HMS PinaforeIt is just a story. It is a story that originated with the Sumerians. The Hebrew people just took it, changed a few things and made it their creation story. It's interesting that they were in Babylon in captivity when they wrote most of their history. They would have been familiar with the earlier writings of the creation and the flood. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumerian_creation_myth
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Post by snow on Jul 18, 2014 16:15:07 GMT -5
It is just a story. It is a story that originated with the Sumerians. The Hebrew people just took it, changed a few things and made it their creation story. It's interesting that they were in Babylon in captivity when they wrote most of their history. They would have been familiar with the earlier writings of the creation and the flood. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumerian_creation_myth Abraham, wife/Sarah, and his father's family came from Sumeria/Iraq= Sumerians. I wouldn't be surprised they got Lilith, Adam/EveEnoch, Noah, the flood, etc... story passing down from one generation to the next generation of Abraham's family.Possibly. Problem is, whoever wrote the stories into the Hebrew bible, wrote them as actual history instead of a myth which was how they were intended when the Sumerians wrote them. If they were not passed by word of mouth from Abraham, then they also could have learned them while in captivity in Babylon. A lot of the OT was written during their time in captivity in Babylon.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jul 18, 2014 17:21:39 GMT -5
Nathan, I couldn't help but chuckle at the explanation. When God made man and women out of dust, the woman disobeyed so it was decided by god to make another woman that would be more submissive to the man, presumably because she came from the man's rib. Obviously he first made man and woman equal and when the woman acted like Adam she was condemned and accused of disobedience. Can't have that now can we... However, by making woman from a man's rib that was created from dust, how does this change anything. In a round about way the woman is still being made from dust because the rib was a man that was made from dust. And, it didn't prevent the church from blaming Eve for the downfall of man and the eventual need for Jesus to sacrifice his life. What seems to be left out in all of this is that Adam was 'equally' disobedient. It must just be a human thing? Not just a 'woman' thing? Just passed through my thoughts that it makes sense that since "Eve" was the disobedient one that is why the "darkness" is what sinners or evil workers look to cover their nefarious deeds! "Eve" is the beginning of the night, isn't it?
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Post by snow on Jul 18, 2014 17:21:54 GMT -5
Possibly. Problem is, whoever wrote the stories into the Hebrew bible, wrote them as actual history instead of a myth which was how they were intended when the Sumerians wrote them. If they were not passed by word of mouth from Abraham, then they also could have learned them while in captivity in Babylon. A lot of the OT was written during their time in captivity in Babylon. I don't believe it was a Myth but as actual history in their days... Most people called it a myth because they weren't there so to them it's a myth but to those who have heard it for thousands of years they believed it was true stories... They might add some flavors to the story. Chocolate or vanilla... just teasing you Nathan. Yes I think they did all add their own little 'extras' to the story to make it more their own, but I'm not convinced they were ever actual events that took place. There I think we need to agree to disagree.
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Post by snow on Jul 18, 2014 17:23:59 GMT -5
Nathan, I couldn't help but chuckle at the explanation. When God made man and women out of dust, the woman disobeyed so it was decided by god to make another woman that would be more submissive to the man, presumably because she came from the man's rib. Obviously he first made man and woman equal and when the woman acted like Adam she was condemned and accused of disobedience. Can't have that now can we... However, by making woman from a man's rib that was created from dust, how does this change anything. In a round about way the woman is still being made from dust because the rib was a man that was made from dust. And, it didn't prevent the church from blaming Eve for the downfall of man and the eventual need for Jesus to sacrifice his life. What seems to be left out in all of this is that Adam was 'equally' disobedient. It must just be a human thing? Not just a 'woman' thing? Just passed through my thoughts that it makes sense that since "Eve" was the disobedient one that is why the "darkness" is what sinners or evil workers look to cover their nefarious deeds! "Eve" is the beginning of the night, isn't it? Well, so they say. But I don't agree women are the night but do think it's unfortunate that the early stories make us out to be. The early church also seemed to dwell on the evils of Eve. I think it has done great harm to women in the form of domestic violence and being regarded as possessions.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jul 18, 2014 17:35:07 GMT -5
Just passed through my thoughts that it makes sense that since "Eve" was the disobedient one that is why the "darkness" is what sinners or evil workers look to cover their nefarious deeds! "Eve" is the beginning of the night, isn't it? Well, so they say. But I don't agree women are the night but do think it's unfortunate that the early stories make us out to be. The early church also seemed to dwell on the evils of Eve. I think it has done great harm to women in the form of domestic violence and being regarded as possessions. True! Being thought of as chattel isn't very conducive to being free to be all one could be. This is something that the bible has perhaps caused the women to not come out of being chattel very well. It's always been about men from day one or so it would seem! But now some of us haven't minded being a certain man's chattel! lol
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Post by snow on Jul 18, 2014 17:45:12 GMT -5
Well, so they say. But I don't agree women are the night but do think it's unfortunate that the early stories make us out to be. The early church also seemed to dwell on the evils of Eve. I think it has done great harm to women in the form of domestic violence and being regarded as possessions. True! Being thought of as chattel isn't very conducive to being free to be all one could be. This is something that the bible has perhaps caused the women to not come out of being chattel very well. It's always been about men from day one or so it would seem! But now some of us haven't minded being a certain man's chattel! lol Do you mean belonging to Jesus? Yes, I'm not so much worried about men and women being equal. I'm not sure that could be possible with the various differences. But, I do advocate for equal 'opportunity' for the genders.
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Post by snow on Jul 18, 2014 19:56:33 GMT -5
Chocolate or vanilla... just teasing you Nathan. Yes I think they did all add their own little 'extras' to the story to make it more their own, but I'm not convinced they were ever actual events that took place. There I think we need to agree to disagree. No problem, which story do you think it's a myth?I think they all were. The story of the earth being created in 6 days, the world wide flood, the way humans were created. The exodus out of Egypt also since there is no documentation of all the supposed plagues that rained down on the Egyptians. Even the way they tried to make their small tribal clans into large kingdoms. Archaeology does not support those things. That's how I see it anyway.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 18, 2014 21:18:44 GMT -5
Do any apologists claim that the rib story is a foretelling of the discovery of X and Y chromosomes? Women have a full XX configuration while men, with their XY configuration, could be said are "missing a rib". I do not believe it is a foretelling, myself, I'm just wondering if anyone has made that stretch. They would no doubt appreciate the "insight".
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 18, 2014 21:20:51 GMT -5
Or you could go with the first description of the creation of Eve: Genesis 1:27-8 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. God blessed them; and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the [al]sky and over every living thing that [am]moves on the earth.”There are a few different versions of the creation of man and women. This one you mention would hint at there being a Goddess with God if they made man and woman in their image. For a patriarchal religion that belief wouldn't go over very well. There is also Lilith in one version. Eve wasn't the first woman if that one is to be believed. Lilith was quite a lady, wasn't she?
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