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Post by rational on Jun 24, 2014 9:02:54 GMT -5
In the interests of clarifying what all has been discussed, I have merged several pages from the original thread in the archives to this thread, so people can go back and read again what was previously posted........ ScottThat damages are caused by child abuse of all kinds, including child sexual abuse is widely known and accepted. It is also well known that not all abuse cause the extensive damage claimed.Yes, it sometimes leads to destroyed lives. Some times this might well be true.Anecdotal evidence is good for reinforcing poorly researched topics.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2014 11:06:32 GMT -5
That damages are caused by child abuse of all kinds, including child sexual abuse is widely known and accepted. It is also well known that not all abuse cause the extensive damage claimed.Yes, it sometimes leads to destroyed lives. Some times this might well be true. I think it is fair to say that all abuse causes damages to varying extents.
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Post by snow on Jun 24, 2014 11:56:47 GMT -5
I'm not sure why it is being argued that only some have problems after abuse? Isn't it enough that some do? Shouldn't that be the focus? I am a pretty strong person and even I have some lingering issues caused by a one time event. I can't imagine what it would be like for someone that was repeatedly sexually abused. Physical abuse leaves it's scars too. As a child I thought it was something about me that caused such intense anger in adults I loved. I now recognize that isn't true, but a part of me still feels that way and I have to use logic to overcome that feeling. I felt for a very long time that I just brought out the worst in people. That was my experience as a child. I also fear men to some degree and have to remind myself that not all men are like my father or the man who raped me. No matter what, we do live with the feelings these experiences bring. Depending on the ability of the person and possibly their inner strength, they can logically replace these feelings with a more healthy response. I manage to do that most of the time. Others may not be able to for a variety of reasons. Does abuse have lifelong consequences? Yes, I think so.
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Post by fixit on Jun 24, 2014 14:24:38 GMT -5
Are you doubting the expertise of the Royal College of Psychologists? For that talk I was doubting the expertise of Paul Bebbington and his research methodology. That's your prerogative. The Royal College of Psychologists disagrees with you. I still maintain that child sexual abuse destroys lives and is an important factor in suicide and attempted suicide.This is not mere theory to me Rational. I've lived with, and am living with, the life-threatening and life-destroying results of child sexual abuse.
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Post by Rob Sargison on Jun 25, 2014 0:44:34 GMT -5
I for one can see where old Bert is coming from with this.
Did anyone else here sneak into the local theater with their mates to watch A Clockwork Orange way back then? On briefly describing the movie to someone who hadn't seen it they commented that it sounds like your average evening tv content.
This week happens to be fifty years since the Beatles toured here. Lock up your daughters! Listen to the lyrics in some modern rap. Beatles music sounds like old grandfatherly English folk. Today's news headlines. Teachers are leaving the profession in numbers because of lack of respect from and fear of undisciplined and out of control students.
Anyone like to offer a scenario of Western popular culture fifty years from now?
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Post by BobWilliston on Jun 25, 2014 1:13:56 GMT -5
That damages are caused by child abuse of all kinds, including child sexual abuse is widely known and accepted. It is also well known that not all abuse cause the extensive damage claimed.Yes, it sometimes leads to destroyed lives. Some times this might well be true.Anecdotal evidence is good for reinforcing poorly researched topics. Rational -- you should perhaps involve yourself a bit more with people who actually work with abused children. The results are not the "sometimes" thing you seem to portray them as. The damage done by child abuse is not even the majority part of the matter -- the more complex part of the problem is how the abuse is hidden and how the damage is overcome, and how to live a fulfilling lifestyle. These parts of the problem are normally never obvious to most people.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jun 25, 2014 1:48:49 GMT -5
I for one can see where old Bert is coming from with this. Did anyone else here sneak into the local theater with their mates to watch A Clockwork Orange way back then? On briefly describing the movie to someone who hadn't seen it they commented that it sounds like your average evening tv content. I didn't sneak into the theater to see A Clockwork Orange. I walked in like anyone else to see it. It was a serious study of a failed experiment in mind control. I wrote a paper on it for my psychology professor (who was at the time president of Psychiatrists of America - or however they call themselves), and the course was called Psychology of Deviant Behaviors. Anyone who considers/ed it risqué has no appreciation for serious human problems. Yes, of course, but in their day the lyrics had a message that the previous generation missed. The Beatle generation remembers and philosophizes about the meaning of the whole Beatle era. There is nothing different with today's music. The previous/older generation is not getting the message, but the present generation in their old age will remember and philosophize about the world they actually lived in. That has always been the case and it will always be the case. Every generation relates to the world they have to make their way through, and old people don't. You got the quote wrong. "Incompetent" teachers leave the profession for that reason. "Competent" teachers leave the profession to double their salaries and to get into a business that isn't dictated to by people who know nothing about educating people. In 42 years I never met a student I was afraid of -- and I taught the worst. Ever have a big time gang member hug you and thank you for your attitude? The scenario will be something like this: You can lead a hor'e to culture, but you can't make her think. The educated and cultured will always get it, and the rest will satisfy their prurient interests.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2014 7:36:24 GMT -5
I for one can see where old Bert is coming from with this. Did anyone else here sneak into the local theater with their mates to watch A Clockwork Orange way back then? On briefly describing the movie to someone who hadn't seen it they commented that it sounds like your average evening tv content. I didn't sneak into the theater to see A Clockwork Orange. I walked in like anyone else to see it. It was a serious study of a failed experiment in mind control. I wrote a paper on it for my psychology professor (who was at the time president of Psychiatrists of America - or however they call themselves), and the course was called Psychology of Deviant Behaviors. Anyone who considers/ed it risqué has no appreciation for serious human problems. Yes, of course, but in their day the lyrics had a message that the previous generation missed. The Beatle generation remembers and philosophizes about the meaning of the whole Beatle era. There is nothing different with today's music. The previous/older generation is not getting the message, but the present generation in their old age will remember and philosophize about the world they actually lived in. That has always been the case and it will always be the case. Every generation relates to the world they have to make their way through, and old people don't. You got the quote wrong. "Incompetent" teachers leave the profession for that reason. "Competent" teachers leave the profession to double their salaries and to get into a business that isn't dictated to by people who know nothing about educating people. In 42 years I never met a student I was afraid of -- and I taught the worst. Ever have a big time gang member hug you and thank you for your attitude? The scenario will be something like this: You can lead a hor'e to culture, but you can't make her think. The educated and cultured will always get it, and the rest will satisfy their prurient interests. I agree with you Bob. A Clockwork Orange, which I also saw in its initial run at the theatres in the early '70's, was a thought provoking and profound depiction of a futuristic violent culture (which never did occur), state mind control and laced with social commentary. Rather than something like this being "average evening tv content" today, it is quite the opposite and you would rarely see something with this sort of depth on tv today or at any other time. If the trends of the last 20 years are any indication, in 50 years from now, popular Western culture will be nearly absent of actual violence, abuse and crime no matter what a movie depicts. It is perilous to gauge what is happening in a culture by watching a movie. If a person won't get out there and engage with people around them to find out they are thinking and their values, there are many measured and professional studies of all aspects of culture which will indicate what is going on out there much better than what distortions of life that Hollywood wants to shock people with.
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Post by Annan on Jun 25, 2014 8:55:17 GMT -5
Bert, my qualms about polygamy are economic. In the US, when a married person dies, the spouse gains certain spousal benefits related to estate taxes, social security payments, etc. All of that is based on a one-spouse system, generally speaking. When polygamy is legalized, those issues will need to be considered and addressed to keep the system solvent. Other than that, I'm not sure there's any reason why three consenting adults, or four, or five, should be prevented from forming a contractual union. I have to wonder about the legal mess if a person in a legal polygamy marriage/union decided to divorce. I recommend prenups.
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Post by Annan on Jun 25, 2014 9:09:23 GMT -5
I'm not sure why it is being argued that only some have problems after abuse? Isn't it enough that some do? Shouldn't that be the focus? I am a pretty strong person and even I have some lingering issues caused by a one time event. I can't imagine what it would be like for someone that was repeatedly sexually abused. Physical abuse leaves it's scars too. As a child I thought it was something about me that caused such intense anger in adults I loved. I now recognize that isn't true, but a part of me still feels that way and I have to use logic to overcome that feeling. I felt for a very long time that I just brought out the worst in people. That was my experience as a child. I also fear men to some degree and have to remind myself that not all men are like my father or the man who raped me. No matter what, we do live with the feelings these experiences bring. Depending on the ability of the person and possibly their inner strength, they can logically replace these feelings with a more healthy response. I manage to do that most of the time. Others may not be able to for a variety of reasons. Does abuse have lifelong consequences? Yes, I think so. I'm 57 years old and it has only been over the past several years that I have been able to begin healing from the affects of physical and emotional abuse. I do not believe I will ever be totally healed. It may not be a fair analogy, but I liken it to being like a recovering alcoholic. It takes willpower and strength every day not to give in to self-abuse/victimhood.
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Post by Annan on Jun 25, 2014 9:17:32 GMT -5
Did anyone else here sneak into the local theater with their mates to watch A Clockwork Orange way back then? On briefly describing the movie to someone who hadn't seen it they commented that it sounds like your average evening tv content. This week happens to be fifty years since the Beatles toured here. Lock up your daughters! Listen to the lyrics in some modern rap. Beatles music sounds like old grandfatherly English folk. Today's news headlines. Teachers are leaving the profession in numbers because of lack of respect from and fear of undisciplined and out of control students. Anyone like to offer a scenario of Western popular culture fifty years from now? I think about that too. I remember when the TV show 'The Golden Girls' was full of what I term clean comedy. Then it changed with the times and the women started having sex with whomever they chose saying it was a woman's right to enjoy themselves sexually without the stereotype of being dolls. While I agree, I still long for the days when sex was not in every single TV show or commercial. Perhaps I'm old fashioned, but I still think sex belongs in the bedroom. It seems sex is no longer associated with romance. To me, a man/husband has to earn sex not take it for granted. Sorry for the rant.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2014 9:55:08 GMT -5
Did anyone else here sneak into the local theater with their mates to watch A Clockwork Orange way back then? On briefly describing the movie to someone who hadn't seen it they commented that it sounds like your average evening tv content. This week happens to be fifty years since the Beatles toured here. Lock up your daughters! Listen to the lyrics in some modern rap. Beatles music sounds like old grandfatherly English folk. Today's news headlines. Teachers are leaving the profession in numbers because of lack of respect from and fear of undisciplined and out of control students. Anyone like to offer a scenario of Western popular culture fifty years from now? I think about that too. I remember when the TV show 'The Golden Girls' was full of what I term clean comedy. Then it changed with the times and the women started having sex with whomever they chose saying it was a woman's right to enjoy themselves sexually without the stereotype of being dolls. While I agree, I still long for the days when sex was not in every single TV show or commercial. Perhaps I'm old fashioned, but I still think sex belongs in the bedroom. It seems sex is no longer associated with romance. To me, a man/husband has to earn sex not take it for granted. Sorry for the rant. Regardless of what we see in movies and tv, I would suggest that gratuitous sex in real life is no more common today than The Golden Girls' days. In fact, there are indications that it is declining. People are more cautious and circumspect about sex, right from teens on up in age. There seems to be a similar disconnect between fantasy violence in movies and video games vs real life. If tv, movies and video games form a large part of a person's life and IS their culture, then it is probably correct to suggest a decline in cultural values.
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Post by rational on Jun 25, 2014 10:02:20 GMT -5
I'm not sure why it is being argued that only some have problems after abuse? Isn't it enough that some do? Some do. The issue is regarding the method of treatment. Child abuse covers a wide range and to assume that all types of abuse results in long term damage can lead to treatment modalities that actually cause more damage than help.You seem to have experienced abuse that has been shown to have a high probability of longer lasting damage - incest, sexual abuse with physical contact beyond simple touching, repeated abuse, and physical abuse couples with sexual abuse. Very different from a child that is shown pornographic photos.Regardless of the severity of the abuse?
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Post by Annan on Jun 25, 2014 10:06:34 GMT -5
Regardless of what we see in movies and tv, I would suggest that gratuitous sex in real life is no more common today than The Golden Girls' days. In fact, there are indications that it is declining. People are more cautious and circumspect about sex, right from teens on up in age. There seems to be a similar disconnect between fantasy violence in movies and video games vs real life. If tv, movies and video games form a large part of a person's life and IS their culture, then it is probably correct to suggest a decline in cultural values. I'm simply saying that it would nice to be able to turn on the TV and not have sex shoved in my face every five minutes. Yes, I could be more chosey about what I watch on TV, but when I see my favorite programs becoming sexualized, because sex sells as we all know, I get a bit irritated. I'm currently watching 'Designing Women' reruns. They handle sex in a realistic and very classy way, behind the scenes. From what I have seen in my daughter's teenage years, gratuitious sex is far from declining. Young girls are partying (alcohol and sex) at younger and younger ages with men (mostly military in my area) who were older and able to purchase alcohol. I was shocked at the number of teen pregnancies in her high school graduating class. I remember two... yes, two... young girls in my graduating class dropping out of school due to pregnancy. It was much higher in my daughter's class and our classes were the same size.
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Post by snow on Jun 25, 2014 11:05:32 GMT -5
I'm not sure why it is being argued that only some have problems after abuse? Isn't it enough that some do? Shouldn't that be the focus? I am a pretty strong person and even I have some lingering issues caused by a one time event. I can't imagine what it would be like for someone that was repeatedly sexually abused. Physical abuse leaves it's scars too. As a child I thought it was something about me that caused such intense anger in adults I loved. I now recognize that isn't true, but a part of me still feels that way and I have to use logic to overcome that feeling. I felt for a very long time that I just brought out the worst in people. That was my experience as a child. I also fear men to some degree and have to remind myself that not all men are like my father or the man who raped me. No matter what, we do live with the feelings these experiences bring. Depending on the ability of the person and possibly their inner strength, they can logically replace these feelings with a more healthy response. I manage to do that most of the time. Others may not be able to for a variety of reasons. Does abuse have lifelong consequences? Yes, I think so. I'm 57 years old and it has only been over the past several years that I have been able to begin healing from the affects of physical and emotional abuse. I do not believe I will ever be totally healed. It may not be a fair analogy, but I liken it to being like a recovering alcoholic. It takes willpower and strength every day not to give in to self-abuse/victimhood. I agree. In some ways I have found the emotional abuse the hardest to live with. I have always felt that someone else has more rights than I do. It is a pervasive feeling that I fight daily. I logically recognize that I have every bit as much right as anyone else, but inside my first thought is to negate my feelings, emotions or beliefs in favor of the other person. Some days those feelings win and I feel like there is nothing I can contribute to the world and it would be better off without me. I don't voice these feelings to people, but they are always with me and I have to replace them with a healthier point of view.
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Post by snow on Jun 25, 2014 11:12:01 GMT -5
I'm not sure why it is being argued that only some have problems after abuse? Isn't it enough that some do? Some do. The issue is regarding the method of treatment. Child abuse covers a wide range and to assume that all types of abuse results in long term damage can lead to treatment modalities that actually cause more damage than help.You seem to have experienced abuse that has been shown to have a high probability of longer lasting damage - incest, sexual abuse with physical contact beyond simple touching, repeated abuse, and physical abuse couples with sexual abuse. Very different from a child that is shown pornographic photos.Regardless of the severity of the abuse? I would say that there are various levels of severity based on the person's ability to handle it. I'm not arguing there aren't people who have been abused that don't have issues stemming from that abuse. I do believe more people do have lasting effects from abuse, than those who do not. I can understand your reasoning that those who do not can possibly be made worse by wrong treatment. That makes sense to me. I don't have an answer to what needs to be done and I believe society doesn't have a clear cut answer either. I think we try to do the best we can. Being a survivor of sexual assault, and after several years of volunteer work with the Sexual Assault Centre, I think there are more that do suffer lasting effects than don't. There is a level of guilt that is silly, but definitely there and pervasive. No matter how much we know that it is not our fault, we still dwell on what we could have done differently. We question why we were targeted. Was it something about us that brought this on. For a long time I beat myself up because I was stupid enough to get into the car with him for a ride home. If I had just not done that, nothing would have happened. On and on you go through what you could have done different. I'm not the only one that did that after the assault. I listened to many many stories that came through the Sexual Assault Centre and other I took in calls on the distress line. It haunts you until you make it stop. Everyone has their own time frame to make that happen. Some never can. I can understand how you might think that showing a child pornography is not at the same level of abuse as the actual touch or invasion of the body, and you're probably right. However, it would again depend on the person and the circumstances. In some cases, there may not have been any impact at all. In that case, it likely never was brought to light or talked about. However, if a child has talked about it, it likely made some sort of impact on them or they would likely not brought it up. Again, I suppose that could have exceptions and I recognize that.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jun 25, 2014 14:10:03 GMT -5
Bert, my qualms about polygamy are economic. In the US, when a married person dies, the spouse gains certain spousal benefits related to estate taxes, social security payments, etc. All of that is based on a one-spouse system, generally speaking. When polygamy is legalized, those issues will need to be considered and addressed to keep the system solvent. Other than that, I'm not sure there's any reason why three consenting adults, or four, or five, should be prevented from forming a contractual union. I have to wonder about the legal mess if a person in a legal polygamy marriage/union decided to divorce. I recommend prenups. In the US, anyway, there is no such thing as legal polygamy. The local such family has only 1 legal wife and 3 other wives of "spiritual" marriage. Any prenuptial contract between the man and any one of the wives could be honored in a court of law. Without such a prenuptial agreement a "spiritually" wife would have no standing to sue for anything if she left. The benefit to the legal wife, at least in a community property state like we are, is that if she divorced the man she would be entitled to 50% of all their combined assets. That would leave him and the other three with half what the legal wife got to take with her.
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Post by fixit on Jun 25, 2014 14:14:32 GMT -5
Does abuse have lifelong consequences? Yes, I think so. Regardless of the severity of the abuse? Why would you even ask that question Rational? It's like asking whether lifelong consequences of a motor vehicle accident could be related to the severity of the injury.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jun 25, 2014 14:26:27 GMT -5
Regardless of what we see in movies and tv, I would suggest that gratuitous sex in real life is no more common today than The Golden Girls' days. In fact, there are indications that it is declining. People are more cautious and circumspect about sex, right from teens on up in age. There seems to be a similar disconnect between fantasy violence in movies and video games vs real life. If tv, movies and video games form a large part of a person's life and IS their culture, then it is probably correct to suggest a decline in cultural values. I'm simply saying that it would nice to be able to turn on the TV and not have sex shoved in my face every five minutes. Yes, I could be more chosey about what I watch on TV, but when I see my favorite programs becoming sexualized, because sex sells as we all know, I get a bit irritated. I'm currently watching 'Designing Women' reruns. They handle sex in a realistic and very classy way, behind the scenes. From what I have seen in my daughter's teenage years, gratuitious sex is far from declining. Young girls are partying (alcohol and sex) at younger and younger ages with men (mostly military in my area) who were older and able to purchase alcohol. I was shocked at the number of teen pregnancies in her high school graduating class. I remember two... yes, two... young girls in my graduating class dropping out of school due to pregnancy. It was much higher in my daughter's class and our classes were the same size. If it's any consolation, teen pregnancies are on the decline in this decade. The biggest difference between now and years ago is that no one is made to hide any more if they are pregnant. I was reading recently where as many as a third of all children born in colonial America were born out of wedlock, so the situation must be improving.
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Post by Annan on Jun 25, 2014 15:18:35 GMT -5
I have to wonder about the legal mess if a person in a legal polygamy marriage/union decided to divorce. I recommend prenups. In the US, anyway, there is no such thing as legal polygamy. The local such family has only 1 legal wife and 3 other wives of "spiritual" marriage. Any prenuptial contract between the man and any one of the wives could be honored in a court of law. Without such a prenuptial agreement a "spiritually" wife would have no standing to sue for anything if she left. The benefit to the legal wife, at least in a community property state like we are, is that if she divorced the man she would be entitled to 50% of all their combined assets. That would leave him and the other three with half what the legal wife got to take with her. What I don't understand is why people get so upset about polygamy anyway. If only one wife is legal, then what's all the fuss about? It's not like the other wives don't know the score. The original polygamist Mormon church leaders took wives that were old and had no one to care for them. The women had a roof over their head and food to eat. Yes, I know all the problems that arose with forced marriages to young girls. CSA is CSA and that is not what I am talking about here. Lots of couples live together without the benefit of marriage. If it makes them feel better by calling themselves spiritual wives or wife number 2, 3, 4 or whatever, so be it. I used to get upset about the whole arrangement saying that in some cases, John Q Public was supporting the spiritual wives and their children, but a lot of other couples don't get married in order to collect welfare benefits.
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Post by Gene on Jun 25, 2014 18:02:42 GMT -5
Regardless of the severity of the abuse? Why would you even ask that question Rational? It's like asking whether lifelong consequences of a motor vehicle accident could be related to the severity of the injury. I'm not clear whether you're agreeing or disagreeing with the legitimacy of Rat's question.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jun 25, 2014 18:43:54 GMT -5
In the US, anyway, there is no such thing as legal polygamy. The local such family has only 1 legal wife and 3 other wives of "spiritual" marriage. Any prenuptial contract between the man and any one of the wives could be honored in a court of law. Without such a prenuptial agreement a "spiritually" wife would have no standing to sue for anything if she left. The benefit to the legal wife, at least in a community property state like we are, is that if she divorced the man she would be entitled to 50% of all their combined assets. That would leave him and the other three with half what the legal wife got to take with her. What I don't understand is why people get so upset about polygamy anyway. If only one wife is legal, then what's all the fuss about? It's not like the other wives don't know the score. The original polygamist Mormon church leaders took wives that were old and had no one to care for them. The women had a roof over their head and food to eat. Yes, I know all the problems that arose with forced marriages to young girls. CSA is CSA and that is not what I am talking about here. Lots of couples live together without the benefit of marriage. If it makes them feel better by calling themselves spiritual wives or wife number 2, 3, 4 or whatever, so be it. I used to get upset about the whole arrangement saying that in some cases, John Q Public was supporting the spiritual wives and their children, but a lot of other couples don't get married in order to collect welfare benefits. The big upset over polygamy in the US is not primarily about polygamy per se. It has been focusing on the FLDS sect of Warren Jeffs who was ordering underage girls to be married. He decided for the whole religious group who was going to marry whom, and when, and he also decided whose wives would be "reassigned" and to whom and when. "Consent" was never really a factor in his decisions, and rape was frequent. He was finally locked up in prison for marrying himself to a minor, and who knows what all else, but he continued to rule his kingdom from prison through collect phone calls. It was quite a day for my wife when he was arrested. It was a police officer from the office where she worked who caught him. And then it turned out that his defense attorney is a relative of hers somehow.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jun 25, 2014 19:07:08 GMT -5
I'm not sure why it is being argued that only some have problems after abuse? Isn't it enough that some do? Some do. The issue is regarding the method of treatment. Child abuse covers a wide range and to assume that all types of abuse results in long term damage can lead to treatment modalities that actually cause more damage than help.You seem to have experienced abuse that has been shown to have a high probability of longer lasting damage - incest, sexual abuse with physical contact beyond simple touching, repeated abuse, and physical abuse couples with sexual abuse. Very different from a child that is shown pornographic photos.Regardless of the severity of the abuse? You are really ignoring the abuser's responsibility when you ask this question. This whole thing is not about the method of treatment. Abuse by definition causes damage, and it's silly to suggest that we set about to see if the damage causes problems for a lifetime. If someone throws a rock through your window it doesn't matter how long it takes you to get it fixed, whether you know how to fix it, or even if you have the means to get it fixed. What to do about the "criminal" is to address his "criminal activity" -- not the consequences to the victim. When the policeman stops you for speeding it doesn't matter to him whether you've even caused damages at all -- you don't get let off because you didn't kill anyone -- that time. Legally speaking, incidents of abuse are considered criminal activities addressed in a criminal court, and consequences to the victim are a separate matter addressed as damages in a civil court. And neither court depends on the other to bring a conviction. Courts do not address the method of treatment, but civil courts may address the "cost" of treatment.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2014 19:15:11 GMT -5
Regardless of what we see in movies and tv, I would suggest that gratuitous sex in real life is no more common today than The Golden Girls' days. In fact, there are indications that it is declining. People are more cautious and circumspect about sex, right from teens on up in age. There seems to be a similar disconnect between fantasy violence in movies and video games vs real life. If tv, movies and video games form a large part of a person's life and IS their culture, then it is probably correct to suggest a decline in cultural values. I'm simply saying that it would nice to be able to turn on the TV and not have sex shoved in my face every five minutes. Yes, I could be more chosey about what I watch on TV, but when I see my favorite programs becoming sexualized, because sex sells as we all know, I get a bit irritated. I'm currently watching 'Designing Women' reruns. They handle sex in a realistic and very classy way, behind the scenes. I hear you on the tv and movies thing. Some depictions seem pretty ridiculous considering it doesn't mirror real life. Country wide in our country, teen sex has declined noticeably over a 16 year period. Here is a table of results from one large jurisdiction: Table 2: BC Adolescent Health Survey: Percentages Of Male and Female Youth In Grades 7 To 12 Who Report Ever Having Intercourse, 1992, 1998, 2003, 2008 Year Male Female 1992 33.9% 28.6% 1998 24.9% 23.0% 2003 23.3% 24.3% 2008 22.0% 22.0%
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Post by snow on Jun 25, 2014 20:31:03 GMT -5
I think what Rational is trying to say is that there are different degrees of abuse and not all of them leave lasting issues. I agree this is probably true. I am not sure why he feels that treatment can make it worse, but I'll give it a shot. I would imagine that if someone that was abused by societies standards, didn't feel they were abused, that maybe the whole incident could be made worse if they were made to think there was something wrong with what happened. I suppose it could lead them to think maybe their was something wrong with them because they were not reacting in the 'standard' way, whatever that might be. That may lead to guilt I suppose. However, if the person that has been abused, knows it is wrong and has any reaction to it in a negative way, I don't think treatment will make them worse.
One of the biggest steps I took to heal was actually talking about it with someone. Telling someone. When that happened, it all came bubbling to the surface, the fear, the guilt, the shame. I remember I started to shake and I couldn't seem to stop. It was almost as traumatic as when it happened. It was like reliving it. But when I was done, it was such a relief. Like a burden was lifted off me. I was not healed, but I had started. I am so grateful to those at the Assault center that sat and listened to me, never judging, offering insights I hadn't thought of etc. I can empathize with those who are too young to even know how to tell someone what happened. They just know it's not right, but they probably don't even know why. That must be so confusing. I would imagine that these children need to be treated so carefully, not giving them memories that don't match their experience, and possibly making the experience even worse. Maybe that's what Rational is talking about. I can see how that could happen. Even as an adult sometimes counsellors would say something that they thought was the way I should feel about what happened, and I didn't. It made me wonder if there was something wrong with me for not feeling that emotion. How much more probable is it that this could happen to a child, with the best of intentions of course. It's a lot to sort through for an adult (17) how much more difficult must it be for a child. Breaks my heart to read the stories on Wings.
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Post by fixit on Jun 25, 2014 20:35:17 GMT -5
Why would you even ask that question Rational? It's like asking whether lifelong consequences of a motor vehicle accident could be related to the severity of the injury. I'm not clear whether you're agreeing or disagreeing with the legitimacy of Rat's question. Sorry. Rat's question was: Does abuse have lifelong consequences - regardless of the severity of the abuse? The legitimacy of Rat's question depends on his motivation for asking the question. lifelong consequences of CSA will depend on different factors including the severity of the abuse.
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Post by rational on Jun 26, 2014 8:23:40 GMT -5
Regardless of the severity of the abuse? Why would you even ask that question Rational? It's like asking whether lifelong consequences of a motor vehicle accident could be related to the severity of the injury. You statement points out why some things that seem so simple have to be asked. If you are in a traffic accident that involves a door scrape in a parking lot one might expect the lifelong damage much less than a head on collision with a truck. Sexual abuse covers a wide range of circumstances. Am I to assume that you believe the long term damage is the same regardless of the type of abuse? Do you really believe there is no difference between someone exposing themselves to a 4 year old on a play ground as compared to raping a 4 year old just because they are both called child sexual abuse?
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Post by fixit on Jun 26, 2014 14:15:55 GMT -5
Am I to assume that you believe the long term damage is the same regardless of the type of abuse? Absolutely not! Do you really believe there is no difference between someone exposing themselves to a 4 year old on a play ground as compared to raping a 4 year old just because they are both called child sexual abuse? Absolutely not!
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