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Post by rational on Jul 9, 2014 7:56:53 GMT -5
God did write the Bible but it was into mens hearts, they put on paper Pauls letters being a good example all scripture is inspired by God So any errors are transcription errors? When you read that "X is Z" there is a chance that god wrote into men's hearts "X is Y"? Or is the transcription without error, and originating with god, the bible is therefore without error?
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jul 9, 2014 11:26:18 GMT -5
I read something the other day that the original transcripts or scrolls of the bible were without error, but the errors came within the translations.....and perhaps the more translations the more errors? I think it was a minister's opinion and I would think he might be onto something which might carry some facts in his opinion! But I also believe that there are enough of the translations near enough of the original contents that we can feel safe in using the bible as something to start our excursion toward a spiritual salvation. That's just MO!
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jul 9, 2014 11:29:55 GMT -5
Thanks, CD, for the multiple grafts on how the spiritual part of lives get our attention. I actually feel that people don't get very serious about tending to their spiritual lives until they are aging....perhaps more after retirement when they have time to think for themselves and where they are finding themselves. I've noticed this amongst even the friends, they tend to just ride along until age starts telling on them, then they begin to become in earnest to put themselves under the control of the workers so that they will not be lost in eternity!
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Post by xna on Jul 9, 2014 11:50:49 GMT -5
I've noticed this amongst even the friends, they tend to just ride along until age starts telling on them, then they begin to become in earnest to put themselves under the control of the workers so that they will not be lost in eternity! Sound like cramming for finals Attachments:
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 9, 2014 12:22:44 GMT -5
Have you ever been to 2x2 meetings and conventions? an answer to my questions would be nice How do I know it was not God who revealed that to you? I don't. But I'm 99.999% certain you heard it all your life. I also know that when new people profess and they start figuring out what the non-rules of the 2x2s are, that it is also called "having a revelation". I was raised the same way, and I was smart enough to figure it out, real fast, without ever consulting God. So I don't believe you when you say your condition before god was a revelation. You had it explained to you. That's what gospel meetings are for - to tell people how miserable they are before god. And apparently no one can "get it" without hearing the workers. Do you pay attention in Gospel Meetings? Or are you a worker, maybe? So, what had God told you that no one else knew about?
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 9, 2014 12:31:51 GMT -5
I read something the other day that the original transcripts or scrolls of the bible were without error, but the errors came within the translations.....and perhaps the more translations the more errors? I think it was a minister's opinion and I would think he might be onto something which might carry some facts in his opinion! But I also believe that there are enough of the translations near enough of the original contents that we can feel safe in using the bible as something to start our excursion toward a spiritual salvation. That's just MO! It was a minister's "OPINION" -- like a smart sales pitch to a more literate modern population. The originals were "Without error" - at least in the mind of the people who wrote them. Problem is, they contradict each other "without error", and forged and plagiarized a lot of it. Accepting some parts of the Bible as "truth" is not unlike claiming Grimm's Fairy Tales are scripture -- God can grow any kind of beanstock he wants. It makes one wonder what God "CREATED" human brains for.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 9, 2014 12:33:11 GMT -5
I've noticed this amongst even the friends, they tend to just ride along until age starts telling on them, then they begin to become in earnest to put themselves under the control of the workers so that they will not be lost in eternity! Sound like cramming for finals It's called insurance for the unexpected -- they're getting the workers to underwrite the policy for them.
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Post by snow on Jul 9, 2014 13:53:49 GMT -5
I guess what comes to mind for me any time someone says this is why do you feel that the only 'revelations' that are acceptable happened 1500 to 2000+ years ago? Do you really think that God just quit talking? Why would he do that? Why wouldn't he try to help out with each age, rewording or perhaps even revealing more, to meet the needs of a new and different time? Do the revelations from god change over time? On the other hand why would god write/cause to be written a text that is not crystal clear in it's meaning? Although it is probably convenient to construct your own metaphors to support your belief(s) rather than have to stick to the written text. Oh but Rational, it is crystal clear. It is only contradictory and unclear to those God has not chosen to give the Holy Spirit for guidance. That's why we don't understand something that is so clearly and simply written, straight into the hearts of men by God.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jul 9, 2014 14:47:30 GMT -5
What I don't understand, with all the gods that ever were and some still around that are older even than Christian, -why do people choose the Christian god over all the other gods?
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Post by rational on Jul 9, 2014 16:20:11 GMT -5
Oh but Rational, it is crystal clear. It is only contradictory and unclear to those God has not chosen to give the Holy Spirit for guidance. That's why we don't understand something that is so clearly and simply written, straight into the hearts of men by God. I looked at my heart (well an x-ray of my heart) and it did look a little like someone was starting to write something. The letters I could make out were "DLOCKACE" but the letters were not very clear. Maybe that first character was a B. I don't know.
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Post by SharonArnold on Jul 9, 2014 16:53:58 GMT -5
What I don't understand, with all the gods that ever were and some still around that are older even than Christian, -why do people choose the Christian god over all the other gods? Ummmm... because they were raised in a Christian context? Am I missing something here? (I just read about the George Clooney "Druse" thing. They sound kinda cool. (I like the self-assurance/arrogance(?) of the non-proselytizing aspect.) Debating if I wish I was raised as one of these?)
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 9, 2014 17:03:16 GMT -5
What I don't understand, with all the gods that ever were and some still around that are older even than Christian, -why do people choose the Christian god over all the other gods? People choose gods for four reasons: (1) Because their parents teach them. (The vast majority of people) (2) Because they are forced to. (3) Because the god(s) meet some human need. (4) For standing in society. The predominance of Christianity in the world is primarily attributed to number 2, and of course number 1 takes care of the rest. And this has been reinforced by the millennia-old teaching that there is only one god. It is also reinforced by the invention of the Christian hell - ironically. People love nothing more than a really good horror show.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 17:49:55 GMT -5
And you've never heard anyone say what your condition was before God? Since you apparently are professing, I think what happened was that you decided to believe what you'd been listening to, and called it a revelation. I happens a lot to little kids after a few spankings. It happens a lot to grown men when they discover the consequences for their crimes. It's called "learning the lesson". Has god ever told you anything that no one else knew? it is good that i don't have to worry about what you think God gives me truth if you don't accept that then that is not my concern to answer your last question i would have to know every person who has ever lived and every thing that God has told every person
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 17:51:07 GMT -5
God did write the Bible but it was into mens hearts, they put on paper Pauls letters being a good example all scripture is inspired by God Someone told you that. did they?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 17:51:52 GMT -5
i did write that is was into mens hearts just in case you missed that Yes, you did. And someone told you that too. did they?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 17:54:53 GMT -5
God did write the Bible but it was into mens hearts, they put on paper Pauls letters being a good example all scripture is inspired by God So any errors are transcription errors? When you read that "X is Z" there is a chance that god wrote into men's hearts "X is Y"? Or is the transcription without error, and originating with god, the bible is therefore without error? it is a good thing then that we have a God who can translate in real time
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 18:02:23 GMT -5
an answer to my questions would be nice How do I know it was not God who revealed that to you? I don't. But I'm 99.999% certain you heard it all your life. I also know that when new people profess and they start figuring out what the non-rules of the 2x2s are, that it is also called "having a revelation". I was raised the same way, and I was smart enough to figure it out, real fast, without ever consulting God. So I don't believe you when you say your condition before god was a revelation. You had it explained to you. That's what gospel meetings are for - to tell people how miserable they are before god. And apparently no one can "get it" without hearing the workers. Do you pay attention in Gospel Meetings? Or are you a worker, maybe? So, what had God told you that no one else knew about? whether you believe me or not is no skin of my nose but i tell you this you are not smarter or better than figuring out better than God and when the day comes that every thing you have said and done will be tried in fire by God you will then understand what i have said is true the problem for you is that you don't give God the credence of being able to communicate with me on a Father son basis
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 9, 2014 21:10:30 GMT -5
And you've never heard anyone say what your condition was before God? Since you apparently are professing, I think what happened was that you decided to believe what you'd been listening to, and called it a revelation. I happens a lot to little kids after a few spankings. It happens a lot to grown men when they discover the consequences for their crimes. It's called "learning the lesson". Has god ever told you anything that no one else knew? it is good that i don't have to worry about what you think God gives me truth if you don't accept that then that is not my concern to answer your last question i would have to know every person who has ever lived and every thing that God has told every person Okay then, tell me something God told you that you have NEVER heard from someone else. You're as hard to get an answer from as Nathan.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 9, 2014 21:11:27 GMT -5
Yes, you did. And someone told you that too. did they? Do you sleep through gospel meetings?
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 9, 2014 21:14:28 GMT -5
What I don't understand, with all the gods that ever were and some still around that are older even than Christian, -why do people choose the Christian god over all the other gods? Ummmm... because they were raised in a Christian context? Am I missing something here? (I just read about the George Clooney "Druse" thing. They sound kinda cool. (I like the self-assurance/arrogance(?) of the non-proselytizing aspect.) Debating if I wish I was raised as one of these?) How does non-proselytizing relate to arrogance?
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 9, 2014 21:18:38 GMT -5
How do I know it was not God who revealed that to you? I don't. But I'm 99.999% certain you heard it all your life. I also know that when new people profess and they start figuring out what the non-rules of the 2x2s are, that it is also called "having a revelation". I was raised the same way, and I was smart enough to figure it out, real fast, without ever consulting God. So I don't believe you when you say your condition before god was a revelation. You had it explained to you. That's what gospel meetings are for - to tell people how miserable they are before god. And apparently no one can "get it" without hearing the workers. Do you pay attention in Gospel Meetings? Or are you a worker, maybe? So, what had God told you that no one else knew about? whether you believe me or not is no skin of my nose but i tell you this you are not smarter or better than figuring out better than God and when the day comes that every thing you have said and done will be tried in fire by God you will then understand what i have said is true the problem for you is that you don't give God the credence of being able to communicate with me on a Father son basis You obviously can't give God the credence either or you'd have something to tell about your revelations. When you make the claim that you have revelations, what do you say about Eldon Tenniswood, who is on record as saying that he had never received a revelation.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 22:40:39 GMT -5
whether you believe me or not is no skin of my nose but i tell you this you are not smarter or better than figuring out better than God and when the day comes that every thing you have said and done will be tried in fire by God you will then understand what i have said is true the problem for you is that you don't give God the credence of being able to communicate with me on a Father son basis You obviously can't give God the credence either or you'd have something to tell about your revelations. When you make the claim that you have revelations, what do you say about Eldon Tenniswood, who is on record as saying that he had never received a revelation. hmmm doesn't one have a revelation about going into the work?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 0:00:41 GMT -5
whether you believe me or not is no skin of my nose but i tell you this you are not smarter or better than figuring out better than God and when the day comes that every thing you have said and done will be tried in fire by God you will then understand what i have said is true the problem for you is that you don't give God the credence of being able to communicate with me on a Father son basis You obviously can't give God the credence either or you'd have something to tell about your revelations. When you make the claim that you have revelations, what do you say about Eldon Tenniswood, who is on record as saying that he had never received a revelation. why do you think that i don't give God credence just because i won't reveal to you what has been revealed to me? why do i have to say anything about what Eldon said?
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Post by Roselyn T on Jul 10, 2014 0:31:19 GMT -5
You obviously can't give God the credence either or you'd have something to tell about your revelations. When you make the claim that you have revelations, what do you say about Eldon Tenniswood, who is on record as saying that he had never received a revelation. hmmm doesn't one have a revelation about going into the work? Well Wally I would say that is the million dollar question ! I used to believe people had a revelation to go into the work, because THAT is what we were told happened ! How many times did we hear this in missions, convention, meetings etc. I no longer believe that ! Just a thought... the workers that have committed CSA did they have a revelation from God to go in the work?
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Post by snow on Jul 10, 2014 0:57:07 GMT -5
Oh but Rational, it is crystal clear. It is only contradictory and unclear to those God has not chosen to give the Holy Spirit for guidance. That's why we don't understand something that is so clearly and simply written, straight into the hearts of men by God. I looked at my heart (well an x-ray of my heart) and it did look a little like someone was starting to write something. The letters I could make out were "DLOCKACE" but the letters were not very clear. Maybe that first character was a B. I don't know. Oh no question, the D was definitely a B and that C was really a G.... Bet you're glad you have me around to help you with these things... You must be just starting out at this heart writing stuff. Once you get the hang of it, you will get entire books written there!
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 10, 2014 1:01:12 GMT -5
You obviously can't give God the credence either or you'd have something to tell about your revelations. When you make the claim that you have revelations, what do you say about Eldon Tenniswood, who is on record as saying that he had never received a revelation. hmmm doesn't one have a revelation about going into the work? It's called being "moved" to go in the work. I had two brothers who were so moved, but never considered it a "revelation". I, on the other hand, was moved to become a teacher. I think what happens to some people after the got into the work can be called a "revelation", however, but not so much a revelation from God as a revelation of what they actually signed up for.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 10, 2014 1:13:12 GMT -5
You obviously can't give God the credence either or you'd have something to tell about your revelations. When you make the claim that you have revelations, what do you say about Eldon Tenniswood, who is on record as saying that he had never received a revelation. why do you think that i don't give God credence just because i won't reveal to you what has been revealed to me? why do i have to say anything about what Eldon said? You told me I wasn't giving credence to God because I wasn't answering your questions. SO I told you what you asked for. Now you tell me and give your credence to God. You told us you got revelations, and I'd like to know what they were -- if they really were revelations. The reason I want to know is because I really don't believe people actually have revelations -- at least in our day. I see religions, including the 2x2s, changing and no evidence of "revelation" -- mostly just an accommodation with the changing times and the advances of science. Doesn't it say somewhere that revelation is "of no private interpretation". And I think there is a story about putting your light under a bowl instead of showing it to the whole house.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 5:45:18 GMT -5
I agree Bob, the claim of revelation, is most often just a cowardly attempt to move responsibility for decision and development away from oneself -- If it is by 'revelation', decision must be exempt from further motivation --- and if it doesn't turn out, it is easy to avoid personal responsibility and refer to the unfathomable ways of God!!! Revelation as motivation, easily becomes the 'chickens way out'.
The claim of revelation also is ego building as it implies a superior connection with heaven, over others who might question. -- "you can't argue with revelation!!"
We had a minister from a more radical 'Christian' grouping in Sweden a few years ago, that felt he had received a revelation from God that he should kill his wife. Didn't stand up in court!!! The court defined it as a constructed fantasy!!
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