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Post by rational on Jul 7, 2014 8:49:49 GMT -5
So a non-exclusive church could not be christian. On the contrary, the Christian spirit teaches that it is beyond us mortal beings to know or judge the hearts of individual men and women around us -- The Christian story is amazing in the approval and respect that Jesus gave to many of of 'unlikely' -- and also the responsibility that he placed on his followers of love for our 'neighbor' .. independant their apparent religious affiliation . No one is talking about judging or not. The founder of the christian religion did indeed say to love everyone but he also is quoted as saying the only way to salvation is through him. By that definition I am excluded. Matthew 10:32–33 Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.This sounds exclusive to me.
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Post by rational on Jul 7, 2014 8:51:04 GMT -5
On the contrary, the Christian spirit teaches that it is beyond us mortal beings to know or judge the hearts of individual men and women around us -- The Christian story is amazing in the approval and respect that Jesus gave to many of of 'unlikely' -- and also the responsibility that he placed on his followers of love for our 'neighbor' .. independant their apparent religious affiliation . I would agree with that entirely. The true Christian spirit is non-exclusive and extends well beyond institutional Christianity. Jesus never did found an institutional church system which by its very nature is exclusive. No, he just claimed he was the only way to heaven.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2014 9:22:09 GMT -5
On the contrary, the Christian spirit teaches that it is beyond us mortal beings to know or judge the hearts of individual men and women around us -- The Christian story is amazing in the approval and respect that Jesus gave to many of of 'unlikely' -- and also the responsibility that he placed on his followers of love for our 'neighbor' .. independant their apparent religious affiliation . No one is talking about judging or not. The founder of the christian religion did indeed say to love everyone but he also is quoted as saying the only way to salvation is through him. By that definition I am excluded. Matthew 10:32–33 Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.This sounds exclusive to me. I don't question that there is a devine process of responsibility for our lives. This is very clearly taught as in the hand of God. There is NOTHING in the teaching of Christ to suggest this judgement is to be our responsibility --- Conversely, the responsibility Jesus gave us was to love and respect our fellowman -- even our enemies and those who speak evil of us ... and we have been taught to show mercy, forgivness, compassion and understanding for all. Contempt and exclusion was never taught as responsibility given to us as men and women, as 2x2ism would imply.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2014 9:29:36 GMT -5
I would agree with that entirely. The true Christian spirit is non-exclusive and extends well beyond institutional Christianity. Jesus never did found an institutional church system which by its very nature is exclusive. No, he just claimed he was the only way to heaven. Where did he claim that? And what's the point?
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Post by rational on Jul 7, 2014 10:53:59 GMT -5
No one is talking about judging or not. The founder of the christian religion did indeed say to love everyone but he also is quoted as saying the only way to salvation is through him. By that definition I am excluded. Matthew 10:32–33 Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.This sounds exclusive to me. I don't question that there is a devine process of responsibility for our lives. This is very clearly taught as in the hand of God. There is NOTHING in the teaching of Christ to suggest this judgement is to be our responsibility --- Conversely, the responsibility Jesus gave us was to love and respect our fellowman -- even our enemies and those who speak evil of us ... and we have been taught to show mercy, forgivness, compassion and understanding for all. Contempt and exclusion was never taught as responsibility given to us as men and women, as 2x2ism would imply. I wasn't questioning the action of the members of the religion. Just quoting the mandate of the person/being that set up the religion and what the record states. Without being a member I can show mercy, forgiveness, compassion and understanding to all but still cannot gain salvation. It seems to me, that the criteria for gaining eternal salvation is clearly defined in the bible and there are exclusions. Blasphemy against the holy spirit would present a hurdle.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2014 10:54:33 GMT -5
Where did he claim that? And what's the point? 1) Jesus said in John 14:6 6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
2) The apostle Peter said in Acts 4:10-12 " Let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole. This is the ‘stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone. Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”
3) Paul wrote in Philip 2:5-11 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
~~ What is the point? That Jesus is the ONLY/exclusive bridge from earth to heaven to come/get SAVED. There is no other person on earth can be/replace that bridge. There is ONLY ONE bridge! to cross from here/earth to God the Father.
I don't see a claim there as to "the only way to heaven" even if it did have anything to do with exclusivity.
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Post by rational on Jul 7, 2014 10:55:40 GMT -5
Where did he claim that? And what's the point? 1) Jesus said in John 14:6 6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
2) The apostle Peter said in Acts 4:10-12 " Let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole. This is the ‘stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone. Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”
3) Paul wrote in Philip 2:5-11 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
~~ What is the point? That Jesus is the ONLY/exclusive bridge from earth to heaven to come/get SAVED. There is no other person on earth can be/replace that bridge. There is ONLY ONE bridge! to cross from here/earth to God the Father.
Wow. I have to agree with Nathan on this point.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2014 11:06:53 GMT -5
Nathan, if Jesus is exclusive, then how could John Long be a non-exclusive worker?
I would say it is the other way around, that Jesus is non-exclusive and John Long was exclusive.
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Post by rational on Jul 7, 2014 11:13:14 GMT -5
I don't see a claim there as to "the only way to heaven" even if it did have anything to do with exclusivity. I think text like: John 3:16-18 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me".Acts 4:12 And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved. Satan is the great counterfeiter.You are right. The word heaven was not used in these translations. Most would consider 'eternal life' or 'going to god' to be synonymous with heaven. According to the text there is one way to gain eternal life - believe in Jesus. If you do not believe you are wrong. One belief right. All other beliefs wrong. Why does that sound exclusive? Why is it not?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2014 11:21:14 GMT -5
I agree Clearday -- There is absolutely no record of Jesus excluding anyone -- not even his betrayer. -- And he clearly said that it was through this attitude of love, mercy and acceptance for all others that was the only way to please the father. .. As with 2x2ism, it was the Pharisees that seemed to find joy in condemning folks that didn't fit their ideals -- Jesus often took the part of 'the excluded' --- and it was his acceptance of the 'non-acceptable' in conflict with the authority of the religious 'know-it-all' standing in their self-righteous glory, that got him nailed to the cross.
The bible-toters of today still insist on the right to exclusion -- to maintain their authority and image of 'more-righteous than the lowly'. 2x2ism is a perfect example.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2014 11:42:49 GMT -5
I don't see a claim there as to "the only way to heaven" even if it did have anything to do with exclusivity. I think text like: John 3:16-18 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me".Acts 4:12 And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved. Satan is the great counterfeiter.You are right. The word heaven was not used in these translations. Most would consider 'eternal life' or 'going to god' to be synonymous with heaven. According to the text there is one way to gain eternal life - believe in Jesus. If you do not believe you are wrong. One belief right. All other beliefs wrong. Why does that sound exclusive? Why is it not? There are exclusive aspects to Jesus but not exclusive in the context we are discussing. You could say that Jesus' way is exclusive to human beings for instance, and be perfectly correct. However, his way is not exclusive to only certain human beings who are card-carrying members of religious systems because anyone can do it, which is the context we are discussing. A good metaphor is this: you could say that a hospital is exclusively for sick people (and be perfectly correct) but that hospital may or may not be exclusive for certain sick people only such as non-residents or citizens. Similarly, Jesus is exclusively for the "sick" (which makes him exclusive in that context), but he doesn't make his hospital exclusive to certain sick people only who are card-carrying members of a religion (which is why he isn't exclusive in this context). The fact that some people choose not to enter the Jesus hospital doesn't make it an exclusive hospital but if you choose not to enter the hospital you will be excluded from the benefits of an non-exclusive hospital.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2014 11:50:24 GMT -5
1)Nathan, if Jesus is exclusive, then how could John Long be a non-exclusive worker? ~~ John Long was wrong/incorrect... for that reason, he was excommunicated in 1907 for being non-exclusive worker. He baptized his converts and let them join the churches of their choice. Jesus DID NOT do that, with his converts! they gathered them into His Fold/group as ONE fellowship with his disciples/apostles. Jesus did NOT sent his converts back to Pharisees, Sadducees or tell them to continue on with their former life.Jesus didn't set up churches, meetings or conventions. His Jewish disciples continued to be practicing Jews. He gave them all a new way of life, not a new dead way of religion. Paul could have stayed a Pharisee (some did) but begin to practice Jesus' way. That would have necessitated him ceasing his old ways of persecuting others because that is not Jesus' way. Not at all. Jesus disbanded his Matt10 methodologies when that mission was accomplished. It was over once and for all. John Long had it as right as anyone because he stuck to his principles while others abandoned their principles in favour of methods.
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Post by snow on Jul 7, 2014 12:06:44 GMT -5
Others?
All others like the Jehovah Witnesses? The Mormons? The Catholics?
Neither you or John Hagees can judge that that they aren't Christ based.
its a simple test that can determine whether a church is Christ based or not the first question goes something like the following... do you believe that Jesus Christ was the son of God and that he died for your sins? see how easy that is? hardly any effort and covers a multitude of Churches... Hmm, I was at my grandson's baptism at the RCC yesterday and according to the priest there were a few more stipulations. You need to also believe that Jesus is God and part of the Trinity. I know, I heard it with my own ears from a Catholic priest. So you see Wally, each religion, or sect within the religion believe they have the answer to the only truth. Simply isn't true.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2014 12:13:21 GMT -5
its a simple test that can determine whether a church is Christ based or not the first question goes something like the following... do you believe that Jesus Christ was the son of God and that he died for your sins? see how easy that is? hardly any effort and covers a multitude of Churches... Hmm, I was at my grandson's baptism at the RCC yesterday and according to the priest there were a few more stipulations. You need to also believe that Jesus is God and part of the Trinity. I know, I heard it with my own ears from a Catholic priest. So you see Wally, each religion, or sect within the religion believe they have the answer to the only truth. Simply isn't true. i'll admit i am quite liberal in accepting other christian denominations into the fold yet i still believe the "truth" to be the safer way...
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Post by snow on Jul 7, 2014 12:14:37 GMT -5
1) Jesus said in John 14:6 6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
2) The apostle Peter said in Acts 4:10-12 " Let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole. This is the ‘stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone. Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”
3) Paul wrote in Philip 2:5-11 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
~~ What is the point? That Jesus is the ONLY/exclusive bridge from earth to heaven to come/get SAVED. There is no other person on earth can be/replace that bridge. There is ONLY ONE bridge! to cross from here/earth to God the Father.
I don't see a claim there as to "the only way to heaven" even if it did have anything to do with exclusivity. If that is true, explain to me what the phrase 'I am the way, the truth and the life. NO MAN COMES TO THE FATHER EXCEPT THROUGH ME' means. Sounds like he felt there was no heaven for anyone that didn't enter the kingdom of God through him. Really can't fathom what else it would mean. Jesus was exclusive and I have to agree with Nathan on this one.
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Post by snow on Jul 7, 2014 12:16:31 GMT -5
I agree Clearday -- There is absolutely no record of Jesus excluding anyone -- not even his betrayer. -- And he clearly said that it was through this attitude of love, mercy and acceptance for all others that was the only way to please the father. .. As with 2x2ism, it was the Pharisees that seemed to find joy in condemning folks that didn't fit their ideals -- Jesus often took the part of 'the excluded' --- and it was his acceptance of the 'non-acceptable' in conflict with the authority of the religious 'know-it-all' standing in their self-righteous glory, that got him nailed to the cross. The bible-toters of today still insist on the right to exclusion -- to maintain their authority and image of 'more-righteous than the lowly'. 2x2ism is a perfect example. But didn't the betrayer first have to be forgiven by Jesus in order to get to God? That is exclusive imo
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Post by snow on Jul 7, 2014 12:17:53 GMT -5
Hmm, I was at my grandson's baptism at the RCC yesterday and according to the priest there were a few more stipulations. You need to also believe that Jesus is God and part of the Trinity. I know, I heard it with my own ears from a Catholic priest. So you see Wally, each religion, or sect within the religion believe they have the answer to the only truth. Simply isn't true. i'll admit i am quite liberal in accepting other christian denominations into the fold yet i still believe the "truth" to be the safer way... Explain 'safer'?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2014 12:22:34 GMT -5
i'll admit i am quite liberal in accepting other christian denominations into the fold yet i still believe the "truth" to be the safer way... Explain 'safer'? i look at christianity as a set of concentric circles, the truth is at the center and each denomination is a circle going out from the center and less safe the further out from the center...
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Post by xna on Jul 7, 2014 12:31:59 GMT -5
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Post by rational on Jul 7, 2014 12:35:14 GMT -5
I agree Clearday -- There is absolutely no record of Jesus excluding anyone -- not even his betrayer. He excluded from eternal life all people who did not believe in him.I don't think this is what he said although this may well be what he thought people should do these things. But believing in him was not negotiable. Is there any support for the possibility of eternal life without believing in Jesus?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2014 13:39:42 GMT -5
I don't see a claim there as to "the only way to heaven" even if it did have anything to do with exclusivity. If that is true, explain to me what the phrase 'I am the way, the truth and the life. NO MAN COMES TO THE FATHER EXCEPT THROUGH ME' means. Sounds like he felt there was no heaven for anyone that didn't enter the kingdom of God through him. Really can't fathom what else it would mean. Jesus was exclusive and I have to agree with Nathan on this one. Sure, happy to oblige you on that one! Just to be clear, I am not trying to explain the mainstream understanding of this, but the universalist view of it. It is a matter of coming to an understanding of what "I" and "me" means in a useful way. The statement makes no sense to interpret it literally. A statement like "snow is the way" is nonsensical. How can snow BE the way? It takes some mental gymnastics to extract any sense out of it at all. The liberal, universalist Christian views those words as Jesus meaning himself in a metaphorical sense, representing divine love. So replace the words "I" and "me" with "Love", ie "Love is the way, the truth and the life" and suddenly it makes perfect sense and it is no longer a religious exclusivism.....plus it really works. Hate is the way of destruction ( and the way to whatever you may imagine hell to be), and love is the way to life in many manifestations including the way to whatever you may imagine heaven to be whether within this lifetime or beyond life. Here is what one universalist Christian says about it. It is "universal Christ" he uses as the term to portray all the attributes that come from divine love. "You have all heard the statement from the Gospel of John, “I am the way, the truth and the life, no man cometh to the Father but by me.” You have probably heard some hellfire and brimstone Christian preacher use that statement as a supposed proof that Christianity is the only true religion. And for almost 2,000 years the blind leaders of orthodox Christianity have managed to have over a billion people believe in their lie that Christianity is the only true religion. But in truth, the universal Christ is the only true religion, the only true approach to religion, because it is only through the Christ mind that you can attain the goal of all true religion, which is oneness with your source and oneness with your brothers and sisters who are part of the Body of God on earth."
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2014 14:08:20 GMT -5
I agree Clearday -- There is absolutely no record of Jesus excluding anyone -- not even his betrayer. He excluded from eternal life all people who did not believe in him.I don't think this is what he said although this may well be what he thought people should do these things. But believing in him was not negotiable. Is there any support for the possibility of eternal life without believing in Jesus? Jesus excluded NO ONE from his love and fellowship and the very best that he could give them. The policies of exclusion like we see in 2x2ism are quite anti-Christian behavior -- The beautiful aspects of respect, compassion, mercy, forgiveness etc in the spirit of Christ are the ONLY way to please God, as he clearly explained. It was only self-centered religions such as the Pharisees that praised the virtues of contempt for the 'less worthy' (and love to highlight their own superior position before God)-- a trait clearly inherited by groups like 2x2ism.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2014 14:20:07 GMT -5
If what you are saying is true CD.... "You have all heard the statement from the Gospel of John, “I am the way, the truth and the life, no man cometh to the Father but by me.” You have probably heard some hellfire and brimstone Christian preacher use that statement as a supposed proof that Christianity is the only true religion. And for almost 2,000 years the blind leaders of orthodox Christianity have managed to have over a billion people believe in their lie that Christianity is the only true religion. But in truth, the universal Christ is the only true religion, the only true approach to religion, because it is only through the Christ mind that you can attain the goal of all true religion, which is oneness with your source and oneness with your brothers and sisters who are part of the Body of God on earth."Then why there will be separating between the Tares from the Wheat, Sheep and goats, Christians and non-Christians when Jesus returns? if ALL oneness brothers, sisters are part of the body of God on earth... Your thinking is NOT 100% correct!Jesus clearly said the separation of the tares was NOT to be done by his followers, as some of the self-righteous groups wanted --Jesus own words were clearly said that the policy of exclusion should not be applied but that all should grow together until the Lord would make the final judgements. Nathan this scripture is perfect for proving the utter anti-christian mindset of 2x2 exclusion- Matt 13:29-30 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. [30] Let both grow together until the harvest: -- Do NOT exclude!!!
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Post by dmmichgood on Jul 7, 2014 14:34:08 GMT -5
No one is talking about judging or not. The founder of the christian religion did indeed say to love everyone but he also is quoted as saying the only way to salvation is through him. By that definition I am excluded. Matthew 10:32–33 Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.This sounds exclusive to me. I don't question that there is a devine process of responsibility for our lives. This is very clearly taught as in the hand of God. There is NOTHING in the teaching of Christ to suggest this judgement is to be our responsibility --- Conversely, the responsibility Jesus gave us was to love and respect our fellowman -- even our enemies and those who speak evil of us ... and we have been taught to show mercy, forgivness, compassion and understanding for all. Contempt and exclusion was never taught as responsibility given to us as men and women, as 2x2ism would imply. I would agree with that entirely. The true Christian spirit is non-exclusive and extends well beyond institutional Christianity. Jesus never did found an institutional church system which by its very nature is exclusive. No, he just claimed he was the only way to heaven. Indeed he did claim that and besides, I thought that the subject of the thread was: "What would a non-exclusive fellowship be like?"
So I thought "fellowship" would mean a group or church and not as individuals.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2014 14:58:02 GMT -5
If what you are saying is true CD.... "You have all heard the statement from the Gospel of John, “I am the way, the truth and the life, no man cometh to the Father but by me.” You have probably heard some hellfire and brimstone Christian preacher use that statement as a supposed proof that Christianity is the only true religion. And for almost 2,000 years the blind leaders of orthodox Christianity have managed to have over a billion people believe in their lie that Christianity is the only true religion. But in truth, the universal Christ is the only true religion, the only true approach to religion, because it is only through the Christ mind that you can attain the goal of all true religion, which is oneness with your source and oneness with your brothers and sisters who are part of the Body of God on earth."Then why there will be separating between the Tares from the Wheat, Sheep and goats, Christians and non-Christians when Jesus returns? if ALL oneness brothers, sisters are part of the body of God on earth... Your thinking is NOT 100% correct!That's not what that is saying. You still have to be in the way of Christ to become one with your maker and with your fellowman. For instance, how can you be one with God or others if you hate them? It's impossible. God doesn't exclude you but you can choose to check out of it. The separation is not done by man but is a process that occurs as people choose to be in the Christ way or not.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jul 7, 2014 15:27:12 GMT -5
I hope dmmichgood doesn't mind me copying her rather thought provoking post. The idea that ''only the F&W have the Holy Spirit and are the only one's saved," has been the very cornerstone of the the "TRUTH" from it's very inception!
It was the cornerstone on which all the rules that were often odious to bear helped us believe that it was worth while.
Without that concept tell me why anyone would put themselves through so much "sacrifice?"
That is the reason that without that concept"that only the F&W have the Holy Spirit" I sincerely don't see how the "TRUTH" will survive. Could the f&w preserve the unique elements of their ministry, home meetings and doctrine, and be non-exclusive? Or would it lose all meaning and character? It's a false premise that exclusivity is the cornerstone from its very beginning. It is well documented that it did not start out as an exclusive Christian sect. Exclusivity emerged several years after its inception. Regardless of the baseless premise, yes it could survive and prosper as a non-exclusive group. In fact, there are certain things about it that have huge potential to offer the world but would have to ditch the things that are offensive. Do you consider JOHN LONG'S journal false as to the exclusivity being the cornerstone of the "TRUTH", the "WAY" as we called it?
Where do you find any "well documented" evidence that exclusivity wasn't the cornerstone from its very beginning? Can you give any factual evidence that the statement was a "baseless premise?" (Thanks to Nathan for pointing where to find this information)JOHN LONG'S journal THE EXCOMMUNICATION 1907"Now I come to the saddest events and most painful, trying and unexpected that I met with during my life’s experience; namely having to leave the Go Preacher fellowship; which God used me so much in, FROM ITS BEGINNING, ten years ago." ................................................................................................................................................................................. "I have no doubt that God used William Irvine to witness against clericalism; but in doing so he ran into the opposite, in going beyond truth when he preached that every clergyman is a false prophet and unsaved. Because I tried to correct him, and did not accept all he said as truth, I became unpopular among the workers. He remained that year in the British Isles, and every where he went he preached that the clergy were unsaved men going to Hell. ................................................................................................................................................................................. "All who were in the Go-Preacher fellowship, and came under its teaching knew that there was much in its external obedience to the word that was superior to all other movements in the world; therefore, it appealed to those who received the truth with pleasure; nevertheless, in the internal and Spiritual aspects of truth, there may have been others superior to them. .................................................................................................................................................................................... "... The definite article [“the”] used in such a narrow way as The truth, The way, The Testimony, Etc. unto the exclusion of all other sects and missions outside their own became at that time very common. "They “unChristianized” all Christians outside themselves; and refused fellowship with them,...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2014 15:38:33 GMT -5
The tares are like cancer in the body... If you don't cut it off the cancer will spread throughout the whole body quickly. Well Nathan -- it would seem that you are suggesting Jesus made a mistake when he said what he did in Matt -- and that it is your job to correct him. Whatever!!!!! Matt 13:29-30 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. [30] Let both grow together until the harvest: DO NOT EXCLUDE THEM.Or are you suggesting that you should take over Gods job ... and be the almighty judge?
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 7, 2014 15:40:58 GMT -5
If what you are saying is true CD.... "You have all heard the statement from the Gospel of John, “I am the way, the truth and the life, no man cometh to the Father but by me.” You have probably heard some hellfire and brimstone Christian preacher use that statement as a supposed proof that Christianity is the only true religion. And for almost 2,000 years the blind leaders of orthodox Christianity have managed to have over a billion people believe in their lie that Christianity is the only true religion. But in truth, the universal Christ is the only true religion, the only true approach to religion, because it is only through the Christ mind that you can attain the goal of all true religion, which is oneness with your source and oneness with your brothers and sisters who are part of the Body of God on earth."Then why there will be separating between the Tares from the Wheat, Sheep and goats, Christians and non-Christians when Jesus returns? if ALL oneness brothers, sisters are part of the body of God on earth... Your thinking is NOT 100% correct!Jesus clearly said the separation of the tares was NOT to be done by his followers, as some of the self-righteous groups wanted --Jesus own words were clearly said that the policy of exclusion should not be applied but that all should grow together until the Lord would make the final judgements. Nathan this scripture is perfect for proving the utter anti-christian mindset of 2x2 exclusion- Matt 13:29-30 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. [30] Let both grow together until the harvest: -- Do NOT exclude!!!In fact, when you think about it, the very act of organizing is to draw a line of exclusion through distinction.
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