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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 5, 2014 22:53:10 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2014 22:58:13 GMT -5
i'm surprised that there are any creationist teachers left in schools...
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 5, 2014 23:27:42 GMT -5
i'm surprised that there are any creationist teachers left in schools... Come on, Wally -- are you really that unaware of what is happening to the US school system?
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jul 6, 2014 1:14:23 GMT -5
I'm surprised that the United States can put a man on the moon when you see this kind of garbage being preached in the schools. Hey do you guys still have witch doctors over there or do you burn them?
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 6, 2014 3:02:40 GMT -5
I'm surprised that the United States can put a man on the moon when you see this kind of garbage being preached in the schools. Hey do you guys still have witch doctors over there or do you burn them? They outlawed burning them a while ago.
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jj
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Post by jj on Jul 6, 2014 5:39:48 GMT -5
Why even become a biology teacher, if you are so much against the theory of evolution? I don't know a lot, but I'm pretty sure it's a fairly significant and relevant scientific theory to the subject! Over here, such a teacher would lose their position and all credibility.
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Post by rational on Jul 6, 2014 7:14:11 GMT -5
Why even become a biology teacher, if you are so much against the theory of evolution? I don't know a lot, but I'm pretty sure it's a fairly significant and relevant scientific theory to the subject! :) Over here, such a teacher would lose their position and all credibility. Interestingly enough the news was reported differently by some outlets: Christian News NetworkThe PowerPoint presentation is primarily pro-evolution, asserting that evolutionary theory is supported by numerous scientific fields, including anatomy, embryology, and biochemistry.
“96% of the human genome is the same as the chimpanzees [sic] genome,” one slide emphasizes.
Despite the PowerPoint’s seemingly pro-evolution message, many people were concerned by a single slide in the presentation which depicted evolution in a negative light. According to the high school’s student newspaper, the slide included an illustration of two dueling castles—one labeled “Evolution (Satan)” and the other labeled “Creation (Christ).”
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Post by rational on Jul 6, 2014 7:23:27 GMT -5
Here is the reason there is not more comment: Gallup poll of 1,028 land line and cell phone users. Which description most closely matches your belief: 1.) that humans have developed over millions of years from less advanced forms of life, but God guided this process; 2.) that humans have developed over millions of years from less advanced forms of life, but God had no part in this process; 3.) that God created human beings pretty much in their present form sometime in the last 10,000 years or so. And the results are:
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Post by rational on Jul 6, 2014 7:31:24 GMT -5
Why even become a biology teacher, if you are so much against the theory of evolution? I don't know a lot, but I'm pretty sure it's a fairly significant and relevant scientific theory to the subject! :) Over here, such a teacher would lose their position and all credibility. Would they lose credibility among the people who believed as they do? Not such a minority here. When religious beliefs are commingled with scientific 'facts' it may be a difficult belief to change, even in spite of what seems like overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Even emotional beliefs can make the process difficult. Try presenting evidence backed research on this message board that goes against conventional wisdom and see how it is received!
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Post by snow on Jul 6, 2014 10:25:18 GMT -5
It really is telling when the percentage of people in that poll came out as being creationists! I really don't understand how a biology teacher could support it though?
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 6, 2014 15:13:51 GMT -5
It really is telling when the percentage of people in that poll came out as being creationists! I really don't understand how a biology teacher could support it though? American school boards is the answer. Religious people clamor for school board positions so they can control what kids are taught in school. This is Las Vegas, you know the reputation -- but the school board has only 1 non-Mormon and the way the school system is run reflects that.
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Post by rational on Jul 6, 2014 15:20:21 GMT -5
It really is telling when the percentage of people in that poll came out as being creationists! I really don't understand how a biology teacher could support it though? American school boards is the answer. Religious people clamor for school board positions so they can control what kids are taught in school. This is Las Vegas, you know the reputation -- but the school board has only 1 non-Mormon and the way the school system is run reflects that. Not just Las Vegas. A court case regarding what was going to be taught in Dover, Pennsylvania, made headlines for awhile.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 6, 2014 15:23:02 GMT -5
Another problem we have in this country. Texas, where textbook publishers sell huge numbers of textbooks, have recently made very strict regulations about what is allowed in Texas schools, and they are strictly anti-evolution, in denial of ethnic diversity, and replete with conservative and Christian revisionist history of the United States. By the way, the Texas rules were not approved by Texas educators -- it was the work of "Texas" politicians.
Publishing companies are not interested in producing different textbooks for every state, so they publish versions that will not offend in the greatest number of states.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 6, 2014 15:29:22 GMT -5
The principal stood in my doorway for one full hour while I taught how the First Amendment applied to prayer in schools. Of course the kids asked why the school boards still keep demanding that kids do religious things in school, and my response was that you don't have to pass a high school government class to become a school board member. The principal, a Bible fundamentalist herself, later praised me for the lesson, admitting that she herself had not heard what I taught the kids until she was in her doctoral program.
A few days later she oversaw a "legal" prayer session at the school, but there was never a second. Obviously the goal of those who wanted the prayer session were less interested in the prayer session than in having the whole school join them.
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Post by snow on Jul 6, 2014 21:23:10 GMT -5
It really is telling when the percentage of people in that poll came out as being creationists! I really don't understand how a biology teacher could support it though? American school boards is the answer. Religious people clamor for school board positions so they can control what kids are taught in school. This is Las Vegas, you know the reputation -- but the school board has only 1 non-Mormon and the way the school system is run reflects that. That's a discouraging mess imo.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2014 2:24:08 GMT -5
A biologist or biology teacher who doesn't believe in Evolution is akin, IMO, to a mechanic believing engines operate on animal spirits, rather than pistons or turbine blades.
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Post by rational on Jul 7, 2014 6:12:28 GMT -5
A biologist or biology teacher who doesn't believe in Evolution is akin, IMO, to a mechanic believing engines operate on animal spirits, rather than pistons or turbine blades. How do you see intelligent design vs. evolution?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 1:50:16 GMT -5
From what I can tell "Intelligent Design" is an upgrade on the old anti-evolution theme. It's certainly a very "intelligent" (read "sly") "adatation" on the old theme - but more to appeal to those who already believe in "creationism", rather than skeptics.
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Post by rational on Jul 9, 2014 6:41:42 GMT -5
I know quite a number of eminent scientists who believe that God created the universe, created humans etc but are quite comfortable with the fact that species evolve. Creation and evolution are two very different topics.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 6:59:37 GMT -5
I know quite a number of eminent scientists who believe that God created the universe, created humans etc but are quite comfortable with the fact that species evolve. Creation and evolution are two very different topics. Yes rational -- and as Ross Boden suggested, they are not necessarily incompatible. Many of us Europeans find it hard to fathom that so many Americans seem to find evolution so radically incompatible with Christianity. In our part of Europe at least this debate doesn't exist. And the debate in itself is regarded as an American happyity -- A debate somewhat in line with how we regard the general American enthrallment and trust in the virtues of violence.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 7:15:26 GMT -5
What does the bible say about creation? Depends on what you want it to read. My point of view is that Genesis tells us that life came out of the sea; life isn't some magic property but mere "clay" and that we humans are two creatures - a physical and a spiritual, ie a spirit which resides in a living physical body.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 9, 2014 12:55:52 GMT -5
I know quite a number of eminent scientists who believe that God created the universe, created humans etc but are quite comfortable with the fact that species evolve. We have a retired professor of chemistry at one of the leading Australian universities who is a great lay preacher and once a year he runs a science/religion debate/discussion during the evening service at church - very engaging. The debate is sometimes portrayed as being between science and religion, but as the United States National Academy of Sciences states: "Today, many religious denominations accept that biological evolution has produced the diversity of living things over billions of years of Earth's history. Many have issued statements observing that evolution and the tenets of their faiths are compatible. Scientists and theologians have written eloquently about their awe and wonder at the history of the universe and of life on this planet, explaining that they see no conflict between their faith in God and the evidence for evolution. Religious denominations that do not accept the occurrence of evolution tend to be those that believe in strictly literal interpretations of religious texts." —National Academy of Sciences, Science, Evolution, and Creationism I would probably insert the words "or literalistic" after the words "strictly literal". The interesting thing is that all you need to say is "God created", and no matter how "God" did it, it was just fine with religious people because god does everything we don't know about, even evolution of the species if someone can sell it as something "god" did. In the end it's more important to them that "God did it" than anything the scientists or the Bible say.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 9, 2014 12:58:32 GMT -5
What does the bible say about creation? Depends on what you want it to read. My point of view is that Genesis tells us that life came out of the sea; life isn't some magic property but mere "clay" and that we humans are two creatures - a physical and a spiritual, ie a spirit which resides in a living physical body. Much more Pagan and scientific than Abrahamic.
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Post by snow on Jul 9, 2014 14:08:11 GMT -5
Even Islam doesn't believe the creation was done in 6 days. More like 6 time periods. Still off, but closer than what the Bible says.
Also, creation and evolution are two entirely different conversations. Talking about what happened before the Big Bang and the forming of our universe is not the same topic as what happened after the Big Bang.
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Post by rational on Jul 9, 2014 16:13:03 GMT -5
Creation and evolution are two very different topics. Yes rational -- and as Ross Boden suggested, they are not necessarily incompatible. They are neither incompatible nor compatible. They are different topics. It would be like stating that felling a tree is compatible with milking a cow.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 17:02:48 GMT -5
Rational -- the very meaning of compatible is that they don't oppose each other .... Which of course they don't. It would seem that some of these American bible thumpers feel that anyone that would suggest the virtues of evolution ... has in this denounced the existence of the creator God. -- In some strange and illogical way claiming incompatibility of the two concepts.
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Post by rational on Jul 9, 2014 23:20:43 GMT -5
They are neither incompatible nor compatible. They are different topics. It would be like stating that felling a tree is compatible with milking a cow. Of course they are different topics....but in my view they can co-exist very comfortably. As Edgar mentioned we don't really have the debate out here either - it seems to be more US based. So can fence posts and screen doors. What's the point?
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Post by rational on Jul 10, 2014 8:11:31 GMT -5
So can fence posts and screen doors. What's the point? The point is simply that there are a number of people on either side of the debate who say that religion and science cannot co-exist, particularly when it relates to creation/evolution. It's not quite as simple as fence posts/screen doors, which I think you understand. It is as simple as fence posts and screen doors. The creation of life is one topic and the evolution of organisms following their creation is another topic. Grouping them together as if they were related means, in the minds of many people I have talked to, that you have to believe both or neither. I have had many discussions regarding evolution only to be told that when the creation of life was the first step in the theory of evolution.
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