Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2014 20:39:30 GMT -5
No, the workers didn't invent the traditional professing female look. Nope.
|
|
|
Post by fixit on Jul 2, 2014 21:21:29 GMT -5
No, the workers didn't invent the traditional professing female look. Nope. They just insisted that its necessary for salvation.
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Jul 2, 2014 21:46:56 GMT -5
No, the workers didn't invent the traditional professing female look. Nope. Because the styles in their day did not offend their tastes, they figured they were THE model of decency. You can tell what time period some of these sects originated in by their dress codes -- Amish, Hudderites, etc.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2014 1:05:56 GMT -5
No, the workers didn't invent the traditional professing female look. Nope. They just insisted that its necessary for salvation. do you have specific fact to back that up?
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Jul 3, 2014 1:10:04 GMT -5
They just insisted that its necessary for salvation. do you have specific fact to back that up? Yes, they excommunicate people for not complying.
|
|
|
Post by jondough on Jul 3, 2014 1:16:48 GMT -5
That was some great old film footage.
wow have we really come a long ways in test 130 years!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2014 1:26:28 GMT -5
That was some great old film footage. wow have we really come a long ways in test 130 years! yes we now have skirts half way up the thigh, flimsy dresses, hair out, finger and toe nail polish and even make up and i haven't seen those excommunicated nor would i want to
|
|
|
Post by Roselyn T on Jul 3, 2014 1:42:26 GMT -5
That was some great old film footage. wow have we really come a long ways in test 130 years! yes we now have skirts half way up the thigh, flimsy dresses, hair out, finger and toe nail polish and even make up and i haven't seen those excommunicated nor would i want to Well we have come a long way in 20 years if what Virgo says is right ! I remember a time if you turned up to set tables at Convention with skirts halfway up the thigh & hair out, you would be told to go and change or not be allowed to set tables ! Of course you don't want them excommunicated Virgo .... after all men have to have someone to eye off don't they ! They don't let their wives or daughters dress like that but it sure doesn't stop them from looking !
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2014 1:59:21 GMT -5
Contempt for folks (especially women) who choose non-conformity/individuality is a well known trade mark for 2x2ism. Perhaps this mindset is a matter of survival for the group as it is hard to find support for the idea that "We are more righteous before God than any other people or group in the world" if there is no hard tangable surface evidence. (Like skirt length in the group, or the absence of TVs in the meeting room, hair in a bun, etc etc.)
There are major moral costs to be paid if this "most righteous in the world" banner is to be upheld. 2x2ism has been more than willing to pay them.
|
|
|
Post by fixit on Jul 3, 2014 2:03:51 GMT -5
They just insisted that its necessary for salvation. do you have specific fact to back that up? Take a look at some of the worker sermon notes. Here's a pretty mild message from Ken Paginton:
|
|
|
Post by Mary on Jul 3, 2014 2:08:35 GMT -5
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2014 4:23:11 GMT -5
yes we now have skirts half way up the thigh, flimsy dresses, hair out, finger and toe nail polish and even make up and i haven't seen those excommunicated nor would i want to Well we have come a long way in 20 years if what Virgo says is right ! I remember a time if you turned up to set tables at Convention with skirts halfway up the thigh & hair out, you would be told to go and change or not be allowed to set tables ! Of course you don't want them excommunicated Virgo .... after all men have to have someone to eye off don't they ! They don't let their wives or daughters dress like that but it sure doesn't stop them from looking ! you doubt what i post? why? my daughters dress like that nothing like a bit of eye candy
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2014 4:29:14 GMT -5
Contempt for folks (especially women) who choose non-conformity/individuality is a well known trade mark for 2x2ism. Perhaps this mindset is a matter of survival for the group as it is hard to find support for the idea that "We are more righteous before God than any other people or group in the world" if there is no hard tangable surface evidence. (Like skirt length in the group, or the absence of TVs in the meeting room, hair in a bun, etc etc.) There are major moral costs to be paid if this "most righteous in the world" banner is to be upheld. 2x2ism has been more than willing to pay them. edgar you really will have to give up the retoric you will give yourself a herna or someit
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2014 4:51:04 GMT -5
what makes you think that is what i mean? i mean is what i wrote the majority of the young men in our fellowship meeting do not wear a tie full stop i don't wear a tie on a wed Gosp or fellowship meeting out of ten women in our fellowship meeting six have their hair out one with hair styled to the shoulder, they all profess, they all take part, they are all accepted as they are as members and valued members of our fellowship if you have trouble in understanding this read again because it is absolutely true
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2014 5:02:38 GMT -5
Contempt for folks (especially women) who choose non-conformity/individuality is a well known trade mark for 2x2ism. Perhaps this mindset is a matter of survival for the group as it is hard to find support for the idea that "We are more righteous before God than any other people or group in the world" if there is no hard tangable surface evidence. (Like skirt length in the group, or the absence of TVs in the meeting room, hair in a bun, etc etc.) There are major moral costs to be paid if this "most righteous in the world" banner is to be upheld. 2x2ism has been more than willing to pay them. edgar you really will have to give up the retoric you will give yourself a herna or someit Yes Virgo -- If I am not more careful they may excommunicate me and use their special connection with heaven to damn me to hell --- (again!!)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2014 7:34:15 GMT -5
what makes you think that is what i mean? i mean is what i wrote the majority of the young men in our fellowship meeting do not wear a tie full stop i don't wear a tie on a wed Gosp or fellowship meeting out of ten women in our fellowship meeting six have their hair out one with hair styled to the shoulder, they all profess, they all take part, they are all accepted as they are as members and valued members of our fellowship if you have trouble in understanding this read again because it is absolutely true I have to agree with you virgo. The young women and men I know look like ordinary, modest people. Yes, they are at their most conservative at convention (for reasonable social reasons), but their day to day appearances are mostly that of wholesome young people. I am speaking of the majority, not of examples of extremities at either end. What's really important is not so much the actual result of their outward appearance, but do they feel oppressed and fearful over a dress code being forced upon them? I would say that today, in our part of the world, that is an easy no. The pressures to conform are little different than the pressures to conform at school, or at any church. There is no intense pressure causing emotional harm and constant worry over eternal salvation. There once was, but that is largely gone. The sermon posted by fixit by Ken Paginton is unimaginable today in our part of the world. If appearance was brought up, they might use Paginton's statement of "There is no change of standard in God's kingdom; modesty and moderation" and stop there, which is a reasonable position. The idea of taking someone's photograph and marking it up with a felt pen to specify a new dress would be considered abusively controlling today. The reaction could be enough to get the worker transferred to West Africa, never to be heard from again. I can also state from personal experiences that sister workers have always been respectful of my teen daughter's choices who has never felt any pressure other than what I would term as "open choice moderation". The proper advice, if any is to be given by a worker, should be: "be modest and moderate, and you freely choose how you go about doing that."
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2014 7:44:31 GMT -5
Quote from fixit - "They just insisted that its necessary for salvation."
Quote from St. Paul - "...I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments, 10but rather by means of good works, as is proper for women making a claim to godliness..."
|
|
|
Post by mdm on Jul 3, 2014 7:44:54 GMT -5
what makes you think that is what i mean? i mean is what i wrote the majority of the young men in our fellowship meeting do not wear a tie full stop i don't wear a tie on a wed Gosp or fellowship meeting out of ten women in our fellowship meeting six have their hair out one with hair styled to the shoulder, they all profess, they all take part, they are all accepted as they are as members and valued members of our fellowship if you have trouble in understanding this read again because it is absolutely true Virgo, if I recall correctly, you are from New Zealand? It seems that rules are a bit more lax there, based on some NZ folks I know (shoulder-length hair and long, but trimmed hair worn down in public).
|
|
|
Post by jondough on Jul 3, 2014 7:51:28 GMT -5
Quote from fixit - "They just insisted that its necessary for salvation."Quote from St. Paul - "...I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments, 10but rather by means of good works, as is proper for women making a claim to godliness..." I don't believe the workers or anyone else has ever looked down or discouraged braided hair, or clothes that are expensive. I've never heard of anyone being talked to about either. We do know why Paul said this though, and it had to do with pride, and looking down on others that couldn't afford what they could afford. There is no humility in advertising the fact that you are rich.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2014 8:05:27 GMT -5
NT verses from Peter and Paul are saying that you don't impress God with fancy clothing..Those things don't buy salvation. Different cultures place different meanings on the word modesty. Some Islamic countries today think it is a sin for a woman to show one speck of skin.
|
|
|
Post by snow on Jul 3, 2014 10:51:34 GMT -5
That was some great old film footage. wow have we really come a long ways in test 130 years! yes we now have skirts half way up the thigh, flimsy dresses, hair out, finger and toe nail polish and even make up and i haven't seen those excommunicated nor would i want to I'm quite sure you've never seen anyone excommunicated for not complying with the dress code. I am not surprised at all.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2014 14:08:13 GMT -5
Quote from fixit - "They just insisted that its necessary for salvation."Quote from St. Paul - "...I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments, 10but rather by means of good works, as is proper for women making a claim to godliness..." Another quote from Paul1 Kor 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Jul 3, 2014 14:48:44 GMT -5
yes we now have skirts half way up the thigh, flimsy dresses, hair out, finger and toe nail polish and even make up and i haven't seen those excommunicated nor would i want to I'm quite sure you've never seen anyone excommunicated for not complying with the dress code. I am not surprised at all. I have witnessed a man from the neighborhood dropping in on an evening meeting at convention and being asked to change before the meeting. He was wearing Bermuda shorts and it was 103 degrees (40 Centigrade). But his wife was allowed to wear her 48DDDD low cut gypsy dress. One of the friend's 10 year old son sported green hair the whole four days. One grandmother wore no underwear and scratched .......... Convention can be fun on occasion.
|
|
|
Post by fixit on Jul 3, 2014 14:53:14 GMT -5
Quote from fixit - "They just insisted that its necessary for salvation."Quote from St. Paul - "...I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments, 10but rather by means of good works, as is proper for women making a claim to godliness..." Paul wanted women to adorn themselves with good deeds. I doubt that he intended adornment itself to be considered "good deeds".
|
|
|
Post by snow on Jul 3, 2014 16:47:58 GMT -5
I'm quite sure you've never seen anyone excommunicated for not complying with the dress code. I am not surprised at all. I have witnessed a man from the neighborhood dropping in on an evening meeting at convention and being asked to change before the meeting. He was wearing Bermuda shorts and it was 103 degrees (40 Centigrade). But his wife was allowed to wear her 48DDDD low cut gypsy dress. One of the friend's 10 year old son sported green hair the whole four days. One grandmother wore no underwear and scratched .......... Convention can be fun on occasion. I was being a tad sarcastic there. We all know that nothing like that would ever happen where virgo lives. I'm just agreeing.
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Jul 3, 2014 20:03:53 GMT -5
I have witnessed a man from the neighborhood dropping in on an evening meeting at convention and being asked to change before the meeting. He was wearing Bermuda shorts and it was 103 degrees (40 Centigrade). But his wife was allowed to wear her 48DDDD low cut gypsy dress. One of the friend's 10 year old son sported green hair the whole four days. One grandmother wore no underwear and scratched .......... Convention can be fun on occasion. I was being a tad sarcastic there. We all know that nothing like that would ever happen where virgo lives. I'm just agreeing. Don't worry -- I got YOUR number. There's nothing like a bit of irony to confuse the ... you know, that kind.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2014 1:06:08 GMT -5
edgar you really will have to give up the retoric you will give yourself a herna or someit Yes Virgo -- If I am not more careful they may excommunicate me and use their special connection with heaven to damn me to hell --- (again!!) looks like you have done most of that yourself
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2014 1:13:02 GMT -5
Quote - "We do know why Paul said this though, and it had to do with pride, and looking down on others that couldn't afford what they could afford. There is no humility in advertising the fact that you are rich."
So Paul's only issue was with CLASS? Did he have a problem with sexually improper dress? Did he have a problem with aggressive style dress? Did he have a problem with deliberately unkempt dress? Did he have a problem with fashionable dress?
Yes he did. As with speech, temperament, hair, ornamentation etc --- dress matters. Dress was to moderate, respectful and "grave" - for Godliness sake.
|
|