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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2014 17:35:29 GMT -5
I was noticing an invitation on the TTT website where Tommy Gamble and Harold (?) McKnight call themselves 2x2 apostles.I never saw an invitation with those words. WOW.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jun 30, 2014 23:35:07 GMT -5
I was noticing an invitation on the TTT website where Tommy Gamble and Harold (?) McKnight call themselves 2x2 apostles.I never saw an invitation with those words. WOW. Did that surprise you?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2014 23:37:16 GMT -5
I was noticing an invitation on the TTT website where Tommy Gamble and Harold (?) McKnight call themselves 2x2 apostles.I never saw an invitation with those words. WOW. does it actually state 2x2 apostles?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2014 7:17:01 GMT -5
yes.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2014 7:37:10 GMT -5
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Post by snow on Jul 1, 2014 14:25:26 GMT -5
Paul definitely appointed himself as an apostle. that must have upset the original apostles, especially since they didn't agree with his message in the first place, he had never even seen Jesus etc.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2014 16:58:38 GMT -5
Disciple of Christ is a better description. Still learning. But of course apostle is much more grandiose and official sounding.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2014 10:19:24 GMT -5
It is the way some minister 1900 years removed from the bible days would use this term. I don't think US workers would create such a gospel meeting invitation. Voice of God...Apostle....discouraged from religion...Maybe TG is being honest about his beliefs, eh. He could state his position on TVs or marriage to outsiders. Remember the year at Carsonville where he complained about split skirts? I always wondered why he was sent to New York back in the early 1990s? In recent years, British workers seldom go to the US and vice versa. TG is one
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Claire
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Post by Claire on Jul 2, 2014 10:24:31 GMT -5
What a difference an A makes
Wiktionary.org apostle (plural apostles) A missionary, or leader of a religious mission, especially one in the early Christian Church (but see Apostle).
Apostle (plural Apostles) One of the group of twelve disciples chosen by Jesus to preach and spread the Gospel
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Post by matisse on Jul 2, 2014 10:36:13 GMT -5
"The Church of Present Day Apostles" has a nice ring to it. "PDA" for short?
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Post by What Hat on Jul 2, 2014 11:31:39 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2014 13:39:14 GMT -5
man they each have alot of territory to cover...
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Post by xna on Jul 2, 2014 13:47:27 GMT -5
man they each have alot of territory to cover... The " that's impossible clause" covers all such cases. ;-) Matthew 19:26 "But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible."
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Post by fixit on Jul 2, 2014 15:46:49 GMT -5
I've heard this before somewhere: "The foundation of its teachings is the Holy Scripture."
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 2, 2014 19:36:19 GMT -5
It is the way some minister 1900 years removed from the bible days would use this term. I don't think US workers would create such a gospel meeting invitation. Voice of God...Apostle....discouraged from religion...Maybe TG is being honest about his beliefs, eh. He could state his position on TVs or marriage to outsiders. Remember the year at Carsonville where he complained about split skirts? I always wondered why he was sent to New York back in the early 1990s? In recent years, British workers seldom go to the US and vice versa. TG is one I thought he was Irish. Only brother workers can call themselves apostles, I have been told. Sister workers are just helpers. So I don't see why US brother workers couldn't make such an advertisement.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jul 3, 2014 4:36:37 GMT -5
According to the Bible's New Testament, the Apostles are the primary disciples of Jesus of Nazareth, the central figure in Christianity. During the life and ministry of Jesus in the first century AD, the apostles were his closest followers and became the primary teachers of the gospel message of Jesus. The word "apostle" derives from the Ancient Greek word ἀπόστολος (apóstólos), meaning "messenger" or "envoy" that was formed from the prefix ἀπό- (apó-, "from") and root στέλλω (stéllō, "I send", "I depart"). Often the word "disciple" is used interchangeably with "apostle" – for instance the Gospel of John makes no distinction between the two terms. In modern usage, prominent missionaries are identified as apostles – a practice which stems from the Latin equivalent of apostle, missio, the source of the English word "missionary". While Christian tradition often refers to the apostles as being twelve in number, the count is ambiguous. Each of the four canonical gospel discusses certain narrative events in the ministry of Christ differently. Different gospel writers give different names for the same individual, and apostles mentioned in one gospel are not mentioned in another. The commissioning of the Twelve Apostles during the ministry of Jesus is recorded in the Synoptic Gospels. After his resurrection, Jesus sent eleven of them (minus Judas Iscariot, who by then had died) by the Great Commission to spread his teachings to all nations—an event referred to as the "Dispersion of the Apostles." There is also an Eastern Christian tradition derived from the Gospel of Luke of there being as many as Seventy Apostles during the time of Jesus' ministry. Prominent figures in early Christianity were often called apostles even though their ministry or mission came after the life of Jesus. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostle_(Christian)I often used to hear how Jesus sent his disciples /apostles out two by two. How did that work when there was 11 of them?
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Post by xna on Jul 3, 2014 8:10:46 GMT -5
I often used to hear how Jesus sent his disciples /apostles out two by two. How did that work when there was 11 of them?
Very good question. I never thought of that one.
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Post by mdm on Jul 3, 2014 8:31:41 GMT -5
I often used to hear how Jesus sent his disciples /apostles out two by two. How did that work when there was 11 of them?
Very good question. I never thought of that one. They did not actively preach the Gospel during that time. By the time they went out to preach (after the Pentecost), they had replaced Judas with Matthias.
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Post by What Hat on Jul 3, 2014 11:31:29 GMT -5
I often used to hear how Jesus sent his disciples /apostles out two by two. How did that work when there was 11 of them?
Very good question. I never thought of that one. 1 Cor 15 states the following. And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve: The incident in question, the sighting of the resurrected Jesus, happened with 'the twelve' according to this verse. It's an interesting little anomaly; because either a) it should say 'the eleven' and the Bible has errors after all, or b) Jesus somehow also appeared to Judas, or c) they replaced Judas quite quickly, or d) 'twelve' is a kind of name, not so much a number.
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Post by What Hat on Jul 3, 2014 11:34:09 GMT -5
I often used to hear how Jesus sent his disciples /apostles out two by two. How did that work when there was 11 of them?
There were 12 of the apostles... After Judas hanged himself, Matthias was his replacement as the 12th apostle (Acts 1:24-26) And they prayed and said, “You, O Lord, who know the hearts of all, show which of these two You have chosen 25 to take part in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.” 26 And they cast their lots, and the lot fell on Matthias. And he was numbered with the eleven apostles.Ahh, so they chose 25 apostles.
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Post by jamiek8407 on Jul 3, 2014 12:08:29 GMT -5
All this is well and good but how does it explain how someone today can be considered an apostle. Seems like underestimating the importance and power of the actual apostles.
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Post by What Hat on Jul 3, 2014 12:12:33 GMT -5
All this is well and good but how does it explain how someone today can be considered an apostle. Seems like underestimating the importance and power of the actual apostles. Or not overestimating their power. I'm all for demystifying the words of the Bible. The New Testament demonstrates quite thoroughly how ordinary and flawed the apostles were.
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Post by What Hat on Jul 3, 2014 12:13:35 GMT -5
Ahh, so they chose 25 apostles. No. The # 25 and 26 are Verses in the Bible... Sorry. The # verses can be confusing sometimes. There were more than 12 apostles according to Paul's writing in I Cor. 15:1-9 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve. 6 After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep. 7 After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles. 8 Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time.
9 For I am the least of the apostles, who am not worthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. Just pulling your leg. I thought it was interesting how the '25' just fell where it did ... "You have chosen 25" et cetera.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jul 3, 2014 12:52:08 GMT -5
Very good question. I never thought of that one. 1 Cor 15 states the following. And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve: The incident in question, the sighting of the resurrected Jesus, happened with 'the twelve' according to this verse. It's an interesting little anomaly; because either a) it should say 'the eleven' and the Bible has errors after all, or b) Jesus somehow also appeared to Judas, or c) they replaced Judas quite quickly, or d) 'twelve' is a kind of name, not so much a number. This would be addressed to Peter when he stood up before the Holy Spirit had come down upon them and quickly asked the other Apostles to cast their lots on 2 different ment that had been part of the crowd of people who had been with Jesus throughout his ministry on earth.....they picked Matthias. Now IF we are to acc ept Matthias as one of the 12 then yes, indeed Mathias had seen Jesus just like the other 11 Apostles had seen.....but Paul was writing this account in Corinthians and he would perhaps be more careful to say who was the 12th Apostles...but we know also from his testimony that he was An Apostle as a birth out of time or before it's time or a birth long after its' time! Jesus commissioned Paul, so it is only normal for some people to want to say Paul was the 13th Apostles and who filled Judas Iscariot's position. It really doesn't matter except that the 12 Apostles will judge the 12 tribes of Israel while upon their thrones!
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jul 3, 2014 13:03:44 GMT -5
Or not overestimating their power. I'm all for demystifying the words of the Bible. The New Testament demonstrates quite thoroughly how ordinary and flawed the apostles were. I agree with What... the 12 had their own human weaknesses just like the rest of us.
Today's workers are doing the same kind of gospel work as the 12 and apostles... Seeking, save the lost souls. The 12 apostles had Jesus living among them. In the beginning the 12 had the power to heal, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers because it a promised that when the Messiah came He would be like Moses, who worked miracles among the children of Israel to prove he was sent from God.... Jesus gave the 12 and 72 apostles the power to perform many miracles to prove to the Jews they were sent by Him/Messiah. (Acts 3:20-26)
God has never promised Gentiles miracles with the gospel... God does heal. He still can perform miracles... but that power belongs to Him.
It doesn't seem to me that the workers have the right to call themselves Apostles for they do not match the description given in: March 16 Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. Also as someone asked how did Jesus fix the problem when he took John, James and Peter with Himself? That would have left "9" Apostles and there is no discussion whether that one Apostles stayed to home, went by himself and teamed up with a couple of the other Apostles!
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Post by What Hat on Jul 3, 2014 14:15:52 GMT -5
1 Cor 15 states the following. And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve: The incident in question, the sighting of the resurrected Jesus, happened with 'the twelve' according to this verse. It's an interesting little anomaly; because either a) it should say 'the eleven' and the Bible has errors after all, or b) Jesus somehow also appeared to Judas, or c) they replaced Judas quite quickly, or d) 'twelve' is a kind of name, not so much a number. This would be addressed to Peter when he stood up before the Holy Spirit had come down upon them and quickly asked the other Apostles to cast their lots on 2 different ment that had been part of the crowd of people who had been with Jesus throughout his ministry on earth.....they picked Matthias. Now IF we are to acc ept Matthias as one of the 12 then yes, indeed Mathias had seen Jesus just like the other 11 Apostles had seen.....but Paul was writing this account in Corinthians and he would perhaps be more careful to say who was the 12th Apostles...but we know also from his testimony that he was An Apostle as a birth out of time or before it's time or a birth long after its' time! Jesus commissioned Paul, so it is only normal for some people to want to say Paul was the 13th Apostles and who filled Judas Iscariot's position. It really doesn't matter except that the 12 Apostles will judge the 12 tribes of Israel while upon their thrones! This is addressed to the Corinthians, or 'brethren' as referenced in 1 CO 15:1. I doubt that Matthias was chosen in time to see the resurrected Christ in person.
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Post by What Hat on Jul 3, 2014 14:24:28 GMT -5
I agree with What... the 12 had their own human weaknesses just like the rest of us.
Today's workers are doing the same kind of gospel work as the 12 and apostles... Seeking, save the lost souls. The 12 apostles had Jesus living among them. In the beginning the 12 had the power to heal, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers because it a promised that when the Messiah came He would be like Moses, who worked miracles among the children of Israel to prove he was sent from God.... Jesus gave the 12 and 72 apostles the power to perform many miracles to prove to the Jews they were sent by Him/Messiah. (Acts 3:20-26)
God has never promised Gentiles miracles with the gospel... God does heal. He still can perform miracles... but that power belongs to Him.
It doesn't seem to me that the workers have the right to call themselves Apostles for they do not match the description given in: March 16 Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. Also as someone asked how did Jesus fix the problem when he took John, James and Peter with Himself? That would have left "9" Apostles and there is no discussion whether that one Apostles stayed to home, went by himself and teamed up with a couple of the other Apostles! Why do you think that calling yourself an apostle is a "right" to be granted or not granted? I think the idea of disallowing the use of words like 'apostle' by some of the denominations is heresy against the basic teachings of Jesus. In the army we have Generals, Sergeants and Corporals, but in following Christ, Jesus pointed to a little child as the "greatest" in the kingdom of heaven. So then, what's the big deal about saying you are an apostle of Christ?
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 3, 2014 14:35:00 GMT -5
I thought he was Irish. Only brother workers can call themselves apostles, I have been told. Sister workers are just helpers. So I don't see why US brother workers couldn't make such an advertisement. The sisters workers have given up all to go in the work just like the brothers.... The sisters are apostles= Messengers/Ambassadors the gospel of Christ as the brothers.I was told by an overseer that the sister workers are NOT apostles.
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