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Post by peacefulheart on Jun 5, 2014 16:46:25 GMT -5
There is only one thing that makes me question the bible, and shakes my faith. Why does God allow people to be born gay, but expect them to change their sexual orientation to be right in His eyes? Now for anyone out there that is about to TRY to convince me that they CHOOSE to be gay.....save it! I know otherwise. I have a family member that is gay, and has known it since 11 years old. Others that I have spoken with have known since very young as well, one guy since he was 8. People don't just decide to be gay, it is their natural attraction. Why would God (as we know Him in the bible) expect them to go against what is their natural attraction? That is like asking a straight person to ignore their attraction to the opposite sex and just try to be gay. I have so much trouble processing this, anyone else have this stumbling block?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2014 17:29:10 GMT -5
God gets blamed for lots of things. Do I believe GOD is the one to be blamed for them? No, personally I do not. In the bible it is recorded that God has given homosexuals over to that lifestyle. Personally, I believe what God has given people over to, God alone can redeem them even as God has redeemed me.
People despise GOD for many things. God is not Allah who is thought to will or control everything. If someone believing in Allah feels moved to pop another in the kisser, well, Allah willed it, and such IS Allah's will.
The God in whom I believe and serve has allowed Satan control over much that occurs in this world for reasons far beyond my understanding, knowledge and pay grade. God has created free will in humanity, and seems to preserve it at great inexplainable cost. Still, that enemy of human souls has attempted to supplant GOD in every aspect, including attempting to make it impossible for God to provide a kinsman human redeemer for mankind. When those beings were destroyed, guess who got blamed? Yep, GOD!
Now we have this issue of homosexuality. It is no longer necessary to preserve a flawless human kinsman redeemer for humanity. Why was that ever planned necessary? I have no idea. However, being someone previously also set under authority, I recognize it when I've seen it. So, since my GOD allows it, I am expected to leave HIM in control of such things.
So then, if a homosexual, OR heterosexual desires to accept the provision GOD made for humanity, should I then begin to blame GOD for conditions perhaps far from their original intent? I chose not. Others chose to do so. That is their free will choice. To believe Satan over my GOD is not in the best interest of my soul, so I simply do not!
All the best in making your decisions,
DennisJ
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Post by faune on Jun 5, 2014 17:37:49 GMT -5
There is only one thing that makes me question the bible, and shakes my faith. Why does God allow people to be born gay, but expect them to change their sexual orientation to be right in His eyes? Now for anyone out there that is about to TRY to convince me that they CHOOSE to be gay.....save it! I know otherwise. I have a family member that is gay, and has known it since 11 years old. Others that I have spoken with have known since very young as well, one guy since he was 8. People don't just decide to be gay, it is their natural attraction. Why would God (as we know Him in the bible) expect them to go against what is their natural attraction? That is like asking a straight person to ignore their attraction to the opposite sex and just try to be gay. I have so much trouble processing this, anyone else have this stumbling block? Peacefulheart ~ I also have wondered about the same thing and agree with your conclusion that people are born gay and it's not a choice as some would like to suggest. Also, why would God create somebody this way and then condemn him according to scripture?
That's why I believe some verses within the Bible were added or changed later on as religious thought and prejudice developed within society. Perhaps the many discrepancies and contradictions found within scripture tend to back up this opinion? The topic of eternal hellfire is another topic that also genders debate regarding God's character. However, I don't feel any changes that may have been made to the Bible canon really changes the nature of God Himself. There are a lot of abnormalities in nature that defies human understanding and I feel we just need to accept them and not discriminate against people with these tendencies for their differences. JMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2014 18:07:04 GMT -5
There is only one thing that makes me question the bible, and shakes my faith. Why does God allow people to be born gay, but expect them to change their sexual orientation to be right in His eyes? Now for anyone out there that is about to TRY to convince me that they CHOOSE to be gay.....save it! I know otherwise. I have a family member that is gay, and has known it since 11 years old. Others that I have spoken with have known since very young as well, one guy since he was 8. People don't just decide to be gay, it is their natural attraction. Why would God (as we know Him in the bible) expect them to go against what is their natural attraction? That is like asking a straight person to ignore their attraction to the opposite sex and just try to be gay. I have so much trouble processing this, anyone else have this stumbling block? I think God made gay people so that mankind would learn how to love and accept all kinds of people, no matter how much different they are from ourselves. We haven't learned the lesson too well but we are getting there. As far as the bible goes, it was just written by people who hadn't gotten there yet either.
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Post by peacefulheart on Jun 5, 2014 18:18:16 GMT -5
Thanks for your input Dennis. I don't know why He would give an 8,9,10,11 year old over to that lifestyle. I just don't get it, guess we all won't understand until after we are dead. By then it won't matter anymore! -ph-
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2014 18:24:22 GMT -5
There is only one thing that makes me question the bible, and shakes my faith. Why does God allow people to be born gay, but expect them to change their sexual orientation to be right in His eyes? Now for anyone out there that is about to TRY to convince me that they CHOOSE to be gay.....save it! I know otherwise. I have a family member that is gay, and has known it since 11 years old. Others that I have spoken with have known since very young as well, one guy since he was 8. People don't just decide to be gay, it is their natural attraction. Why would God (as we know Him in the bible) expect them to go against what is their natural attraction? That is like asking a straight person to ignore their attraction to the opposite sex and just try to be gay. I have so much trouble processing this, anyone else have this stumbling block? we are all born with crosses to bear its not what you have to bear that matters its how you bear it that matters...
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Post by peacefulheart on Jun 5, 2014 18:38:59 GMT -5
There is only one thing that makes me question the bible, and shakes my faith. Why does God allow people to be born gay, but expect them to change their sexual orientation to be right in His eyes? Now for anyone out there that is about to TRY to convince me that they CHOOSE to be gay.....save it! I know otherwise. I have a family member that is gay, and has known it since 11 years old. Others that I have spoken with have known since very young as well, one guy since he was 8. People don't just decide to be gay, it is their natural attraction. Why would God (as we know Him in the bible) expect them to go against what is their natural attraction? That is like asking a straight person to ignore their attraction to the opposite sex and just try to be gay. I have so much trouble processing this, anyone else have this stumbling block? Peacefulheart ~ I also have wondered about the same thing and agree with your conclusion that people are born gay and it's not a choice as some would like to suggest. Also, why would God create somebody this way and then condemn him according to scripture?
That's why I believe some verses within the Bible were added or changed later on as religious thought and prejudice developed within society. Perhaps the many discrepancies and contradictions found within scripture tend to back up this opinion? The topic of eternal hellfire is another topic that also genders debate regarding God's character. However, I don't feel any changes that may have been made to the Bible canon really changes the nature of God Himself. There are a lot of abnormalities in nature that defies human understanding and I feel we just need to accept them and not discriminate against people with these tendencies for their differences. JMT
Faune, thank you for your response! I agree with your opinion here, and have also wondered about tampering with the bible. There is a warning for a good reason about adding to or taking away from it..... because someone was sure to do it! I didn't used to give too much thought to the gay topic before my family member came out. I did wonder about it occasionally though, because I have seen VERY feminine men before and they were naturally that way, it was not for show or forced action. There clearly is so much we don't know, and not our place to judge! It's hard to be a help though when gays know that the religious world thinks they chose to be gay, how could they feel loved and accepted into God's family??? Where do they go for fellowship?
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Post by peacefulheart on Jun 5, 2014 18:57:47 GMT -5
It doesn't matter whether we are born gay, or straight.... In God's eyes we are all sinners! we all need the Savior to redeem us from our sins.
For ALL have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God. Romans 3:23
Romans 2:24-26 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
Yes, we are all sinners, gay or straight and need our redeemer Jesus. The difference though is that a straight couple can fall in love, marry, live a Godly family life in the religious worlds and Gods eyes, but a gay person is supposed to live a lonely life of celibacy/singleness, or go against what is natural for them and marry the opposite sex in order to be "right."
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Post by peacefulheart on Jun 5, 2014 19:05:35 GMT -5
There is only one thing that makes me question the bible, and shakes my faith. Why does God allow people to be born gay, but expect them to change their sexual orientation to be right in His eyes? Now for anyone out there that is about to TRY to convince me that they CHOOSE to be gay.....save it! I know otherwise. I have a family member that is gay, and has known it since 11 years old. Others that I have spoken with have known since very young as well, one guy since he was 8. People don't just decide to be gay, it is their natural attraction. Why would God (as we know Him in the bible) expect them to go against what is their natural attraction? That is like asking a straight person to ignore their attraction to the opposite sex and just try to be gay. I have so much trouble processing this, anyone else have this stumbling block? I think God made gay people so that mankind would learn how to love and accept all kinds of people, no matter how much different they are from ourselves. We haven't learned the lesson too well but we are getting there. As far as the bible goes, it was just written by people who hadn't gotten there yet either. Thanks clearday, that is comforting. I'm sure God looks at us and wonders sometimes, "Will they ever get it?" -ph-
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Post by peacefulheart on Jun 5, 2014 19:18:00 GMT -5
Yes, we are all sinners, gay or straight and need our redeemer Jesus. The difference though is that a straight couple can fall in love, marry, live a Godly family life in the religious worlds and Gods eyes, but a gay person is supposed to live a lonely life of celibacy/singleness, or go against what is natural for them and marry the opposite sex in order to be "right." NOT anymore, many states have allowed gays people to marry one another. Many gays and lesbians have come out of the closet lately.I know, they are not as fearful anymore. Used to be they had to hide it the best they could. Some could not hide it and were harassed/teased to the point of some even committing suicide, some murdered in hate crimes too......shame on humanity, it just sickens me! Now, picture a gay couple that are married and attending gospel meetings and fellowship meetings, how would that be accepted? It wouldn't, that's how. Thank you for your input nathan, I love reading everyone's thoughts on the subject. -ph-
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Post by matisse on Jun 5, 2014 19:31:45 GMT -5
I suspect you are not alone in your cognitive dissonance. In the 45 years since the Stonewall Riots blew the "Closet Door" open, more and more good, decent, caring, moral people like yourself are having the experience of knowing one or more people who are gay and discovering that despite the warning cries of Bible thumpers, gay people can be just as good, decent, caring and morally grounded as anyone else.
The Bible has been used for fear-mongering and control. Hopefully the "haters" will become irrelevant as the attitudes of more and more good people are shifted through the power of personal relationships.
With the help of Facebook, I have been impressed by how many of the professing mothers and fathers of my professing childhood friends are now loving (at least it looks that way in the photos!) grandparents to gay and lesbian grandchildren. These are pretty devout professing people who have found a way to make space for love, despite what the Bible says, AND according to what the Bible says!
I admire your instincts and insight. Hang in there!
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Post by peacefulheart on Jun 5, 2014 19:57:39 GMT -5
I suspect you are not alone in your cognitive dissonance. In the 45 years since the Stonewall Riots blew the "Closet Door" open, more and more good, decent, caring, moral people like yourself are having the experience of knowing one or more people who are gay and discovering that despite the warning cries of Bible thumpers, gay people can be just as good, decent, caring and morally grounded as anyone else. The Bible has been used for fear-mongering and control. Hopefully the "haters" will become irrelevant as the attitudes of more and more good people are shifted through the power of personal relationships. With the help of Facebook, I have been impressed by how many of the professing mothers and fathers of my professing childhood friends are now loving (at least it looks that way in the photos!) grandparents to gay and lesbian grandchildren. These are pretty devout professing people who have found a way to make space for love, despite what the Bible says, AND according to what the Bible says! I admire your instincts and insight. Hang in there! Matisse, thanks. I've seen a few pictures and loving comments myself on Facebook,of friends with gay children/grandchildren. I am glad there are some that let love override all!
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Post by BobWilliston on Jun 5, 2014 20:18:56 GMT -5
There is only one thing that makes me question the bible, and shakes my faith. Why does God allow people to be born gay, but expect them to change their sexual orientation to be right in His eyes? Now for anyone out there that is about to TRY to convince me that they CHOOSE to be gay.....save it! I know otherwise. I have a family member that is gay, and has known it since 11 years old. Others that I have spoken with have known since very young as well, one guy since he was 8. People don't just decide to be gay, it is their natural attraction. Why would God (as we know Him in the bible) expect them to go against what is their natural attraction? That is like asking a straight person to ignore their attraction to the opposite sex and just try to be gay. I have so much trouble processing this, anyone else have this stumbling block? we are all born with crosses to bear its not what you have to bear that matters its how you bear it that matters... Our crosses are not given to us by god -- they are given to us by people who want us eliminated.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jun 5, 2014 20:21:37 GMT -5
I think God made gay people so that mankind would learn how to love and accept all kinds of people, no matter how much different they are from ourselves. We haven't learned the lesson too well but we are getting there. As far as the bible goes, it was just written by people who hadn't gotten there yet either. Thanks clearday, that is comforting. I'm sure God looks at us and wonders sometimes, "Will they ever get it?" -ph- Actually, no, they will never get it..... it they are not challenged by better minds.
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Post by peacefulheart on Jun 5, 2014 20:59:29 GMT -5
Thanks clearday, that is comforting. I'm sure God looks at us and wonders sometimes, "Will they ever get it?" -ph- Actually, no, they will never get it..... it they are not challenged by better minds. That's why it's good to have these conversations, it gets people thinking about topics and views they might not have thought too much about before. Thanks Bob. -ph-
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Post by arwen89 on Jun 6, 2014 0:07:09 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2014 0:15:06 GMT -5
It's an hour plus. Can you summarize in a couple of paragraphs? I like this comment: "..... if the selective readings and hateful messages some religious fanatics spread to a lot of families, a lot of gay people do the worst thing for their lives, get married and have kids, and all hell breaks lose... A heart broken wife, lost kids and living a lie. If acceptance can finally reach out and make its way into people's hearts I think finally homosexuals can live the right way and be with their suitable partners and not live a lie for the sake of fear"
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Post by arwen89 on Jun 6, 2014 10:08:30 GMT -5
Hmmm... It really us worth watching.
He just explains the context of the verses that people use to scream "Homosexuality is a SIN!!!" He goes through the entire Bible and addresses any points that are referenced to when someone attacks the lgbt community.
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Post by blandie on Jun 6, 2014 11:26:34 GMT -5
I don't understand the people who will rant on and on about homosexuality and hardly raise a whimper about fornication or adultery or lying or any of the rest as if there was any difference. As we are told that even lust after someone whose not your wife is the same as adultery then I suspect those ranters aren't any less guilty before God. Hypocrisy seems to love to distract from itself by pointing at others.
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Post by What Hat on Jun 6, 2014 11:42:12 GMT -5
There is only one thing that makes me question the bible, and shakes my faith. Why does God allow people to be born gay, but expect them to change their sexual orientation to be right in His eyes? Now for anyone out there that is about to TRY to convince me that they CHOOSE to be gay.....save it! I know otherwise. I have a family member that is gay, and has known it since 11 years old. Others that I have spoken with have known since very young as well, one guy since he was 8. People don't just decide to be gay, it is their natural attraction. Why would God (as we know Him in the bible) expect them to go against what is their natural attraction? That is like asking a straight person to ignore their attraction to the opposite sex and just try to be gay. I have so much trouble processing this, anyone else have this stumbling block? It's okay to be gay and be a Christian. Just being gay is not an issue. Homosexual activity, per se, is not an issue. However promiscuity was and is a problem. Paul wrote some very strong verses against homosexuality that I took literally for many years. Rom 1:27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error. I no longer take this as a blanket condemnation of all homosexuals. There are two reasons why. As you do, I now understand people are born homosexual, and also some are transgendered. Second, I understand that homosexuals can have long-lasting stable marital relationships. There's no question Paul was referencing a situation here, and condemning it, and I believe the situation was promiscuous homosexual sex. Did Paul understand that some people are born homosexual? He may not have, we don't know. In any case, these verses, and indeed much of Paul's writing are a response to specific situations. There is much in this world that should disgust and revolt us as Paul was revolted here; a stable loving relationship between two homosexual people is not one of those things. I think the church should marry gays, that is, if they marry anyone at all. I can't take an interpretation of this verse that would be against the basic teaching of Jesus to love our neighbour, and two homosexual men or women could easily be our neighbour in this day and age.
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Post by What Hat on Jun 6, 2014 11:54:25 GMT -5
There is only one thing that makes me question the bible, and shakes my faith. Why does God allow people to be born gay, but expect them to change their sexual orientation to be right in His eyes? Now for anyone out there that is about to TRY to convince me that they CHOOSE to be gay.....save it! I know otherwise. I have a family member that is gay, and has known it since 11 years old. Others that I have spoken with have known since very young as well, one guy since he was 8. People don't just decide to be gay, it is their natural attraction. Why would God (as we know Him in the bible) expect them to go against what is their natural attraction? That is like asking a straight person to ignore their attraction to the opposite sex and just try to be gay. I have so much trouble processing this, anyone else have this stumbling block? I think God made gay people so that mankind would learn how to love and accept all kinds of people, no matter how much different they are from ourselves. We haven't learned the lesson too well but we are getting there. As far as the bible goes, it was just written by people who hadn't gotten there yet either. If anyone thinks that the Bible is universal and not conditioned by the times, they should read this: 1Ti 6:1 All who are under the yoke of slavery should consider their masters worthy of full respect, so that God’s name and our teaching may not be slandered. The Bible argues for proper treatment of slaves, and for slaves to accept their condition/ lot in life. But the New Testament doesn't move standard cultural practice away from slavery. I think the Bible offers an approach and guidance for the individual in the face of a defined culture, things that can not be changed, but I also like the idea of dispensations from God affecting humanity or a culture as a whole. That is, at certain points in history God has moved the entire culture to a new and better place. The abolition of slavery would be one of those points.
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Post by matisse on Jun 6, 2014 14:01:29 GMT -5
Hmmm... It really us worth watching. He just explains the context of the verses that people use to scream "Homosexuality is a SIN!!!" He goes through the entire Bible and addresses any points that are referenced to when someone attacks the lgbt community. I watched the first 15 minutes last night and was very impressed. I plan to finish watching it over the weekend.
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Post by peacefulheart on Jun 6, 2014 14:48:50 GMT -5
Thank you Arwen, I will watch it. -ph-
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Post by dmmichgood on Jun 6, 2014 15:21:24 GMT -5
I think God made gay people so that mankind would learn how to love and accept all kinds of people, no matter how much different they are from ourselves. We haven't learned the lesson too well but we are getting there. As far as the bible goes, it was just written by people who hadn't gotten there yet either. If anyone thinks that the Bible is universal and not conditioned by the times, they should read this: 1Ti 6:1 All who are under the yoke of slavery should consider their masters worthy of full respect, so that God’s name and our teaching may not be slandered. The Bible argues for proper treatment of slaves, and for slaves to accept their condition/ lot in life. But the New Testament doesn't move standard cultural practice away from slavery. I think the Bible offers an approach and guidance for the individual in the face of a defined culture, things that can not be changed, but I also like the idea of dispensations from God affecting humanity or a culture as a whole. That is, at certain points in history God has moved the entire culture to a new and better place. The abolition of slavery would be one of those points. There is a lot about your explanation that makes sense IF you must believe that the bible is THE only manual for human ethics. However, why must it be "A God" that has "moved the culture to a new and better place?" What Hat, you yourself, stated that you "no longer take this as a blanket condemnation of all homosexuals."
Then you gave the reasons why: (Very good reasons, by the way.) "As you do, I now understand people are born homosexual, and also some are transgendered. Second, I understand that homosexuals can have long-lasting stable marital relationships."
My question to you, What Hat, is where did that new understanding come from? Did it come from the knowledge gained by science or did GOD reveal it to you?
If it were GOD, then why did HE reveal it only NOW when HE had always known it?
Think of all the tragedy that knowledge could have prevented if HE, being all knowing and all powerful, -would have revealed a long time ago?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2014 15:41:56 GMT -5
Thanks for your input Dennis. I don't know why He would give an 8,9,10,11 year old over to that lifestyle. I just don't get it, guess we all won't understand until after we are dead. By then it won't matter anymore! -ph- When I was eight years old, I was stricken with rheumatic fever. Spent the next 5 years of my life physically confined, totally bed ridden for the first couple of years. Had to find answers for my own situation, not another's, I found them, young as I was.
It is very tough to understand such things at any age.
Concentrated study of Job and his life and experience even at a very young age answered many of my questions, and without help from others. People can find just as many reasons not to believe in, or trust in GOD. Personally, I believe it is just a matter of a truly personal relationship, not something of head knowledge nor instruction by anyone else, which, I've observed easily fails at the very time a person could use the individual help from outside themselves and their own mind, whether or not that need is recognized.
Again, free will is one of the determining factors in this and other situations.
One says they knew there was no GOD since early Childhood, another like myself found that GOD in early childhood. Not waiting for death to confirm what I believe true, have spent a lifetime proving the GOD I first chose to trust so early in life. My free will. Others exercise(d) their own free will just as early, resulting in different ends and conclusions. Did I chose to suffer from rheumatic fever, then later encephalitis, and spinal meningitis? Of course not. Do such children as you describe chose their orientation? Of course not. For ME, the "free will" portion comes into how every individual deals with their circumstances of life, which, personally, I choose to blame on the prince of this world, and not my GOD!
Again, personally, I believe I was created subject to vanity or emptiness, not willingly on my part, but by the reason of ONE who has subjected me to hope, that eagerly anticipated expectation of that which is best yet to come. Don't expect this to make sense to those without belief in GOD, or even to everyone who does believe in GOD. It only has to make sense and be proven to me in my own mind as it has over and over. Again, best wishes for you in reaching your own decisions in the exercise of your own free will.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jun 6, 2014 17:36:37 GMT -5
Peacefulheart ~ I also have wondered about the same thing and agree with your conclusion that people are born gay and it's not a choice as some would like to suggest. Also, why would God create somebody this way and then condemn him according to scripture?
That's why I believe some verses within the Bible were added or changed later on as religious thought and prejudice developed within society. Perhaps the many discrepancies and contradictions found within scripture tend to back up this opinion? The topic of eternal hellfire is another topic that also genders debate regarding God's character. However, I don't feel any changes that may have been made to the Bible canon really changes the nature of God Himself. There are a lot of abnormalities in nature that defies human understanding and I feel we just need to accept them and not discriminate against people with these tendencies for their differences. JMT
Faune, thank you for your response! I agree with your opinion here, and have also wondered about tampering with the bible. There is a warning for a good reason about adding to or taking away from it..... because someone was sure to do it! I didn't used to give too much thought to the gay topic before my family member came out. I did wonder about it occasionally though, because I have seen VERY feminine men before and they were naturally that way, it was not for show or forced action. There clearly is so much we don't know, and not our place to judge! It's hard to be a help though when gays know that the religious world thinks they chose to be gay, how could they feel loved and accepted into God's family??? Where do they go for fellowship? Peacefulheart, just some responses to both your and faune's posts.
1. Homosexuality isn't an "abnormality." Had it been, surely modern medicine and psychological counceling would have done something to correct it by now.
The American Psychological Association statement on Homosexuality :
from wiki: "All major professional mental health organizations have gone on record to affirm that homosexuality is not a mental disorder. In 1973 the American Psychiatric Association’s Board of Trustees removed homosexuality from its official diagnostic manual, The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Second Edition (DSM II). The action was taken following a review of the scientific literature and consultation with experts in the field. The experts found that homosexuality does not meet the criteria to be considered a mental illness."
2. You ask, "Where do they go for fellowship?" Many churches accept & welcome the gay community.from wiki :"Other Christian denominations do not view monogamous same-sex relationships as sinful or immoral, and may bless such unions and consider them marriages. These include the United Church of Canada, and the United Church of Christ.,[26] all German Lutheran, reformed and united churches in EKD,[27]
all Swiss reformed churches, the Protestant Church in the Netherlands, the Church of Denmark, the Church of Sweden, the Church of Iceland and the Church of Norway. The Evangelical Lutheran Church of Finland also allows prayer for same-sex couples.[28] In particular, the Metropolitan Community Church was founded specifically to serve the Christian LGBT community. The Global Alliance of Affirming Apostolic Pentecostals (GAAAP), traces its roots back to 1980, making it the oldest LGBT-affirming Apostolic Pentecostal denomination in existence.[29]
Another such organization is the Affirming Pentecostal Church International, currently the largest affirming Pentecostal organization, with churches in the US, UK, Central and South America, Europe and Africa.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jun 6, 2014 17:41:34 GMT -5
I wonder why people use the word "life style" for gays?
We don't refer to heterosexual orientation as a "life style."
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2014 18:29:26 GMT -5
I wonder why people use the word "life style" for gays?
We don't refer to heterosexual orientation as a "life style." but some do argue that its a choice still so hence the "lifestyle" reference...
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