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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2014 14:59:20 GMT -5
what you seem to be describing is hypocrisy and i don't think that is what is happening at all...i vaguely remember jeff leaving the work and i seem to remember when he left he had a job and a place to stay whether that was with a roommate i can't remember... What part of it do you consider hypocrisy? I don't understand what you are referring to. it seemed you were saying that other people see things in others that is in their own life and were not nice about it to them. hence to me a hypocrite. I don't seem to remember that happening to jeff when he left the work. in fact i remember him being at all the get togethers and being just fine everyone treated him like an elder brother. true i wasn't around him all of the time so can't know every detail of his life...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2014 16:06:35 GMT -5
What part of it do you consider hypocrisy? I don't understand what you are referring to. it seemed you were saying that other people see things in others that is in their own life and were not nice about it to them. hence to me a hypocrite. I don't seem to remember that happening to jeff when he left the work. in fact i remember him being at all the get togethers and being just fine everyone treated him like an elder brother. true i wasn't around him all of the time so can't know every detail of his life... No, I am not saying that at all. Quite the opposite. They would judge themselves exactly the same way they would judge Jeff. What I am saying, is that they are judging him on the basis of how they are, not how he is. Maybe I can put it more simply. They are trying to put themselves in his homeless situation, and they expect him to react to that situation the same way that they would react to it. However, they probably don't understand why he is in the situation he is in, nor why he won't do what they would do in that situation. Bottom line is that everyone is different, we aren't all the same.
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Post by Greg on Jun 2, 2014 10:26:02 GMT -5
The comments I referred to are on this thread, but I have heard similar comments many times and at one time I thought they were reasonable comments. The point is, a person has to be careful when prescribing behaviour for others. As I mentioned, don't expect a paraplegic to walk like you. Similarly, don't expect that someone's life choices can or should be the same as what you would do in similar circumstances. (I don't mean "you" in particular, just generally). Previously; "The comments on JR are something like "you're smart, you had a job before, get a job now, otherwise you are just lazy" and that probably comes from them putting themselves in his position and not actually understanding his position." I do not read any comments that say that about JR or seem to be like that.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2014 15:33:06 GMT -5
The comments I referred to are on this thread, but I have heard similar comments many times and at one time I thought they were reasonable comments. The point is, a person has to be careful when prescribing behaviour for others. As I mentioned, don't expect a paraplegic to walk like you. Similarly, don't expect that someone's life choices can or should be the same as what you would do in similar circumstances. (I don't mean "you" in particular, just generally). Previously; "The comments on JR are something like "you're smart, you had a job before, get a job now, otherwise you are just lazy" and that probably comes from them putting themselves in his position and not actually understanding his position." I do not read any comments that say that about JR or seem to be like that. They are somewhere on here unless they were removed. Two posters made similar comments.
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Post by fixit on Jun 2, 2014 16:23:22 GMT -5
I think there's some confusion around what exactly Jeff is wanting from life.
1. Does he want a job/career?
2. Does he want a business of his own?
3. Does he want to remain itinerant and homeless?
4. Does he want to live off the charity of others?
5. Does he want to create his own charitable organization with which to help others in need?
For this thread to be meaningful it needs to be clearer about what Jeff is actually trying to achieve.
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Post by Greg on Jun 2, 2014 16:53:47 GMT -5
I think there's some confusion around what exactly Jeff is wanting from life. 1. Does he want a job/career? 2. Does he want a business of his own? 3. Does he want to remain itinerant and homeless? 4. Does he want to live off the charity of others? 5. Does he want to create his own charitable organization with which to help others in need? For this thread to be meaningful it needs to be clearer about what Jeff is actually trying to achieve. From reading the website I understand JR wants to make a life-long career of being homeless, own a charity-like business which he will operate and mostly use donations for his needs and thereby teaching/showing others what to do. No direct help for other homeless or the needy, but that might be down the road. Pun intended.
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Apples
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Post by Apples on Jun 2, 2014 18:55:02 GMT -5
He had a difficult time on the message board as well. Some people just seem to have difficult times. Of course it is never their fault. He used to use the alias of Amigo or Big Brother on an earlier message board.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2014 19:00:43 GMT -5
He had a difficult time on the message board as well. Some people just seem to have difficult times. Of course it is never their fault. He used to use the alias of Amigo or Big Brother on an earlier message board. Not everything is his fault. He was unfairly expelled from the PMB after a fiasco there. But then, not all moderators have the skills to work with all people successfully, it's easier to kick them out sometime.
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Post by fixit on Jun 2, 2014 19:03:53 GMT -5
I think there's some confusion around what exactly Jeff is wanting from life. 1. Does he want a job/career? 2. Does he want a business of his own? 3. Does he want to remain itinerant and homeless? 4. Does he want to live off the charity of others? 5. Does he want to create his own charitable organization with which to help others in need? For this thread to be meaningful it needs to be clearer about what Jeff is actually trying to achieve. From reading the website I understand JR wants to make a life-long career of being homeless, own a charity-like business which he will operate and mostly use donations for his needs and thereby teaching/showing others what to do. No direct help for other homeless or the needy, but that might be down the road. Pun intended. It's pretty murky. If JR chooses to remain homeless, that's his prerogative. But is it fair to ask others to help fund his chosen life style? If he wanted help to get out of that situation and he was willing to make an effort himself, that would be a worthy cause. I'm not seeing the merit in encouraging homelessness and reliance on the hard work of others.
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Post by rational on Jun 3, 2014 8:28:45 GMT -5
From reading the website I understand JR wants to make a life-long career of being homeless, own a charity-like business which he will operate and mostly use donations for his needs and thereby teaching/showing others what to do. No direct help for other homeless or the needy, but that might be down the road. Pun intended. :) After reading his site and his goals it does look like the funds are going to be for JR and the primary benefit for the people who donate will be viewing his posts about his travels while they stay home and work for a living. I think it sounds like a sweet deal if you can get people to donate. At first I thought it sounded like a scam but it really doesn't qualify because it was all explained on his donation site. "Give Jeff money so he can attend to his creature comforts and spend the rest of his life fulfilling his dream of traveling around the world." The site didn't say how the van would be used in this journey outside of the Americas but that might be made clear 'down the road'.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2014 8:48:22 GMT -5
He could definitely use a little bit of marketing advice! Here is how he plans to benefit his benefactors: "What's great about Road Warriors 360 and what I'm doing is that it's not just for me -- but it's for everyone. Everyone gets to be a road warrior, everyone gets to enjoy my merchandise and everyone gets to enjoy being entertained with my YouTube channel."So you get to buy his t-shirts and watch his free YouTube videos about his adventures.....which I presume you can do whether you fund him or not. Definitely needs to do a bit of work on his pitch!
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Post by Greg on Jun 3, 2014 12:23:56 GMT -5
Definitely needs to do a bit of work on his pitch! "Some people call the cops on me because they don't like me and my van. They are image conscious and superficial. They care more about money and material things -- than people and helping mankind." Quite judgmental. Likely many people would be suspect of a van parked in their neighborhood. "I've connected to people from bums to billionaires." Bums? Supposedly the team has two billionaires. Could not each kind, caring, benevolent billionaire slip JR $10,000? They each would have at least $999,990,000 left. And maybe just give him some earned interest. $10,000 is .001% of one billion dollars. I think current CD interest rate is more than that . . . maybe not by much.
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Apples
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Post by Apples on Jun 3, 2014 19:25:30 GMT -5
After exchanging many long email messages I believe I saw Jeff as he was. I think those who judge JR harshly do so by seeing him as they are, not as he is.
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Post by fixit on Jun 3, 2014 20:05:08 GMT -5
I must confess: I care about money and material things so much that I actually work to support myself.
It gets worse: I care about money and material things so much that I prefer not to donate it to people who make no effort to support themselves.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2014 20:55:31 GMT -5
After exchanging many long email messages I believe I saw Jeff as he was. I think those who judge JR harshly do so by seeing him as they are, not as he is. And in your view, how was he and what was it about how he was that was deserving of expulsion from the PMB?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2014 21:09:41 GMT -5
I must confess: I care about money and material things so much that I actually work to support myself. It gets worse: I care about money and material things so much that I prefer not to donate it to people who make no effort to support themselves. JR has a business plan. He works regularly at his business plan. He makes money from implementing his business plan. He is trying to crowd fund a furtherance of his business plan. Now your opinion or my opinion may well be that his business plan is a surefire loser, but he does put a considerable effort into it. He does side jobs to support himself while his dream business plan is being worked on and he continues his dream of success. He believes his work offers people value for their money invested. For $50, you get a breakfast with JR and a group photo. For $25, you get a 15 minute Skype chat with JR, and for $35, you get a Hit the Road T-shirt. You or I may feel that his work does not provide value and is a bad investment, but he thinks it's good.
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Post by fixit on Jun 3, 2014 21:31:48 GMT -5
I must confess: I care about money and material things so much that I actually work to support myself. It gets worse: I care about money and material things so much that I prefer not to donate it to people who make no effort to support themselves. JR has a business plan. He works regularly at his business plan. He makes money from implementing his business plan. He is trying to crowd fund a furtherance of his business plan. Now your opinion or my opinion may well be that his business plan is a surefire loser, but he does put a considerable effort into it. He does side jobs to support himself while his dream business plan is being worked on and he continues his dream of success. He believes his work offers people value for their money invested. For $50, you get a breakfast with JR and a group photo. For $25, you get a 15 minute Skype chat with JR, and for $35, you get a Hit the Road T-shirt. You or I may feel that his work does not provide value and is a bad investment, but he thinks it's good. That makes sense. I was thinking more of the times over the years where he was asking for money to help him out with his problems. At least with the business plan you referred to, folks who part out with money know up front that its a simple business transaction. Quid pro quo. Nothing to do with charity.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2014 21:42:42 GMT -5
JR has a business plan. He works regularly at his business plan. He makes money from implementing his business plan. He is trying to crowd fund a furtherance of his business plan. Now your opinion or my opinion may well be that his business plan is a surefire loser, but he does put a considerable effort into it. He does side jobs to support himself while his dream business plan is being worked on and he continues his dream of success. He believes his work offers people value for their money invested. For $50, you get a breakfast with JR and a group photo. For $25, you get a 15 minute Skype chat with JR, and for $35, you get a Hit the Road T-shirt. You or I may feel that his work does not provide value and is a bad investment, but he thinks it's good. That makes sense. I was thinking more of the times over the years where he was asking for money to help him out with his problems. At least with the business plan you referred to, folks who part out with money know up front that its a simple business transaction. Quid pro quo. Nothing to do with charity. Yes, after he lost his small fortune, he was asking for money to get bailed out of crises and didn't seem to have a game plan to get out of it which frustrated a lot of people who helped him out. Even fairly recently in the last two or three years he conducted a campaign to get some work done on his van. He doesn't see his current efforts as charity but some people may see it as effectively charity. At least he is working toward some sort of goal regardless of how effective, worthwhile or successful we may think it will end. There is probably something marketable in his experience but I'm not exactly sure what that may be.
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Post by fixit on Jun 3, 2014 22:11:42 GMT -5
That makes sense. I was thinking more of the times over the years where he was asking for money to help him out with his problems. At least with the business plan you referred to, folks who part out with money know up front that its a simple business transaction. Quid pro quo. Nothing to do with charity. Yes, after he lost his small fortune, he was asking for money to get bailed out of crises and didn't seem to have a game plan to get out of it which frustrated a lot of people who helped him out. Even fairly recently in the last two or three years he conducted a campaign to get some work done on his van. He doesn't see his current efforts as charity but some people may see it as effectively charity. At least he is working toward some sort of goal regardless of how effective, worthwhile or successful we may think it will end. There is probably something marketable in his experience but I'm not exactly sure what that may be. Jeff is a very fast writer. It may be that he could have his writing published. I'm not sure what the demand would be like. It's probably easier to sell a book about rags to riches, rather than how to survive on $1.00 a day. Some might buy his books for the entertainment value.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2014 22:17:12 GMT -5
Yes, after he lost his small fortune, he was asking for money to get bailed out of crises and didn't seem to have a game plan to get out of it which frustrated a lot of people who helped him out. Even fairly recently in the last two or three years he conducted a campaign to get some work done on his van. He doesn't see his current efforts as charity but some people may see it as effectively charity. At least he is working toward some sort of goal regardless of how effective, worthwhile or successful we may think it will end. There is probably something marketable in his experience but I'm not exactly sure what that may be. Jeff is a very fast writer. It may be that he could have his writing published. I'm not sure what the demand would be like. It's probably easier to sell a book about rags to riches, rather than how to survive on $1.00 a day. Some might buy his books for the entertainment value. Yes, there are a few possible angles. Some of his harrowing experiences presented in a humorous style could be of interest to people. I think that it would be educational for people to know how it would be possible to live on next to nothing too so there is a curiosity factor. Next, the movie and he's set for life! However, he would first have to learn about how to make paragraphs!
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Post by fixit on Jun 3, 2014 22:24:42 GMT -5
Jeff is a very fast writer. It may be that he could have his writing published. I'm not sure what the demand would be like. It's probably easier to sell a book about rags to riches, rather than how to survive on $1.00 a day. Some might buy his books for the entertainment value. Yes, there are a few possible angles. Some of his harrowing experiences presented in a humorous style could be of interest to people. I think that it would be educational for people to know how it would be possible to live on next to nothing too so there is a curiosity factor. Next, the movie and he's set for life! However, he would first have to learn about how to make paragraphs! Perhaps he could sell a "how-to" video on an app store for $1.00 a piece and sell a million copies.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2014 0:29:30 GMT -5
Yes, there are a few possible angles. Some of his harrowing experiences presented in a humorous style could be of interest to people. I think that it would be educational for people to know how it would be possible to live on next to nothing too so there is a curiosity factor. Next, the movie and he's set for life! However, he would first have to learn about how to make paragraphs! Perhaps he could sell a "how-to" video on an app store for $1.00 a piece and sell a million copies. Not a bad idea really. I would expect there are enough fearful people around who feel they may lose everything and may feel more secure if they had an app that would guide them to survival if that were to happen. There are others who may want to use the app to reduce their living costs. Strangely enough, that's a great idea. Fear sells.
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Post by Greg on Jun 4, 2014 0:49:02 GMT -5
Perhaps he could sell a "how-to" video on an app store for $1.00 a piece and sell a million copies. Not a bad idea really. I would expect there are enough fearful people around who feel they may lose everything and may feel more secure if they had an app that would guide them to survival if that were to happen. There are others who may want to use the app to reduce their living costs. Strangely enough, that's a great idea. Fear sells. Maybe "How to sell apps for $1.00" - cost, $1.00.
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Post by fixit on Jun 4, 2014 1:25:08 GMT -5
Not a bad idea really. I would expect there are enough fearful people around who feel they may lose everything and may feel more secure if they had an app that would guide them to survival if that were to happen. There are others who may want to use the app to reduce their living costs. Strangely enough, that's a great idea. Fear sells. Maybe "How to sell apps for $1.00" - cost, $1.00. Don't laugh. Ridiculously simple apps can make big bucks.
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Apples
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Post by Apples on Jun 4, 2014 12:35:44 GMT -5
As I said, my discussions were in email and I will not be making the information exchanged in personal email public. There was substantial interaction between Jeff, myself, and others on the Common Ground message board that is still available should you wish to look there.( Common Ground) The bottom line is that Jeff was offered many chances, made many promises, was never able to keep those promises, and eventually was banned from posting on the message board. After exchanging many long email messages I believe I saw Jeff as he was. And in your view, how was he and what was it about how he was that was deserving of expulsion from the PMB?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2014 13:04:41 GMT -5
As I said, my discussions were in email and I will not be making the information exchanged in personal email public. There was substantial interaction between Jeff, myself, and others on the Common Ground message board that is still available should you wish to look there.( Common Ground) The bottom line is that Jeff was offered many chances, made many promises, was never able to keep those promises, and eventually was banned from posting on the message board. And in your view, how was he and what was it about how he was that was deserving of expulsion from the PMB? I read the information at the time but anyway, thanks for the non-information. It seems to me that his violations are very public, but you are clearly not interested in explaining what they were and how it justified kicking him off. There is no need to expose any private information. It's little wonder the PMB died off. You have provided some clues though that you didn't see him as he was as you claim, you saw him as you were.
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Post by Jason Storebo on Jun 4, 2014 15:44:16 GMT -5
For what it' s worth...my ex who is now an ex, had her heart broken by Tharold, when he turned her down for the work. She had a breakdown, then she met me...and the rest is history.
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Post by rational on Jun 4, 2014 16:04:28 GMT -5
For what it' s worth...my ex who is now an ex, had her heart broken by Tharold, when he turned her down for the work. She had a breakdown, then she met me...and the rest is history. Or perhaps, herstory.
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