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Post by lazarus66 on May 22, 2014 9:36:46 GMT -5
When I first met Jeff, he was in the work. His last companion was Tharold Slyvester, and if anyone could drive you from the work, Tharold was that man. Jeff was dumped out, penniless, and he acquired a van, and worked and lived in the van. He later decided to explore the world of the homeless, and help those that had become homeless thru no actions of their own, or from poor choices.
As he mentions, many people are one poor choice, or misfortune of losing a job, from becoming homeless so he has learned to make an art of it, and his dream is to form a group called Road Warriors 360, which at present is a non-profit organization to help others in teaching them by example how to truly survive as homeless, and how that being homeless can be an art.
Please help Jeff as he is not a bum. He works when he can, and in this economy, that can be a challenge. Jeff maintains his "Vanshion" which he lives in, and has a computer. He has learned how the laws of American society are so unjust to those that have become homeless, and so he is trying to use his experience to try to educate people, including lawmakers, on how unjustly they look upon the unfortunate people that find themselves in this position.
Jeff is a very bright man, and I think his dream can be achieved. I am asking all that can help to look at his site, and help him in any way you can. I will help Jeff, even though I am living on a shoestring, but if many contribute a few dollars, I am sure they will see Jeff's dream become a reality, and he has the ability to help others, and bring to light how easy it is to become homeless, and how to survive, and even flourish.
His site is so check it out and help Jeff help others.
I have known Jeff for quite a few years, and he is amazing in what he is trying to do, so please help him with a donation, or just support.
I can tell you that he is sincere, and has helped many already. At times, he helps people when he can't afford it, and needs that help returned. I think many are very fortunate to not have had to experience homelessness, but I have been there, and am always one day away from becoming homeless again. It is not a choice anyone makes, but something that happens. It could be you that it happens to, and if Jeff achieves his dream, he will help others to survive and rebuild their lives.
Thanks to all that read and see it clear to help Jeff with donations or just spreading his site and spreading the word.
Dale.....................
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2014 11:03:56 GMT -5
its too bad he is still having a hard time i vaguely remember jeff
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Post by pianoman2 on May 23, 2014 12:22:44 GMT -5
Jeff's main interest is trying to build an organization that is world wide, and can help the homeless, that are not there because of drugs or alcohol or mental illness. People often don't realize how easy it is to become homeless. I went from owning two homes, now worth nearly a half a million dollars, and just my kindness, and trying to help family, I became homeless. I am self sufficient now, but just barely. I could be homeless again, in a heartbeat.
Jeff has chosen to dedicate his time to living with the homeless, yet he is driven to help them. One can only understand what it is like by experiencing it first hand.
I admire Jeff, and support his dream and cause. He relates how the police treat the homeless, which is shameful, and yet our uncaring government, which will help out people from other countries, should they find them homeless or in need, but American citizens are harassed and mistreated by those that are homeless, through no want to be or neglect of their lives, but circumstances, beyond their control.
Jeff is trying to shed light on that, just as these boards are trying to shed light on the 2x2 system, and those that abuse their power in it.
It is the same. I personally will ask all that read to donate at least $5.00 USD. I only live on $860.00 a month, and I will. Is that really asking too much? Most people waste more than that every week and sometimes every day. Why not donate to where it will do good and watch it grow.
Jeff is no dummie. He has found a cause and is willing to go through great discomfort to expose and make it better for those that have fallen.
Freely give, and you will receive. It should warm your heart. There is nothing in this for me other than great admiration for a man that laid down his life for the "truth" and now is laying down his life for his fellow mankind.
Please just take a moment to realize, but for the grace of God, it would be you. Wouldn't you want someone like Jeff to come to your aid?
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Post by Jason Storebo on May 23, 2014 16:12:38 GMT -5
I remember Jeff and Tharold when they visited my parents home. I also recall attending a few of their meetings. This would have been during the early eighties, in the Kent, Washington area.
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Post by lazarus66 on May 24, 2014 11:14:46 GMT -5
Penguin, Jeff did try to keep in touch with the F&W's after leaving the work. As usual, they could get nothing from him, and for his years of service in the work with the 2x2s, he was simply forgotten. When he first left the work, as many workers that are younger experience, he was looked down on for "leaving his post". He was homeless, and received no help from the F&Ws. He still works part time when he can find a job and lives in his van, which he calls the "Vanshion". He has made an art of living that way, and seeing other homeless people that didn't choose to be homeless, he became an advocate. I asked him why he didn't rent a room, and he said that he didn't need that much space and he has his way of dealing with things, that is really unique. If you don't admire his desire to help the helpless, then you have no heart for those that have become homeless. I have experienced being homeless a few times, and it was not by choice. I urge all to send a few bucks to his cause in the link above www.indiegogo.com/project/preview/ea1900ab and help him to get his world wide organization going. I think he will be a great success as no one else I know he is sharp and cares so much about others and their misfortune. I also know that if he is successful in building an organization, which he is well on the way with, he will never profit for himself. Please help him help others...........Thank you...........Dale
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Post by lazarus66 on May 24, 2014 12:46:28 GMT -5
Jeff asked me to post this. This should let you all know how serious and how hard he is working to get his project launched. Wanted: Volunteer Team Members / Helpers / Worldwide Team Members will have a profile, bio, pic, your social links and be listed on the crowd-funding campaign and will be shared and promoted along with it to many thousands on all 6/7 continents worldwide. So, this is free advertising and promotion for you and your links (personal and/or business). This helps both the campaign and the team member. Right now, I already have 15+ team members representing 6/7 continents around the world. Nobody else has anything like this project. Totally different and unique. A rare opportunity. Combining travel and helping others. Great for anyone, young or old, rich or poor, working adults, retired, but especially students. Must be 18+, have 500+ FB friends, be friendly, social, care about people, love road trips and travel. Students will get volunteer intern work experience, resume'/C.V. content, job reference and letter of recommendation based on satisfactory performance and completion. Need people now. Part-time. Volunteer intern. No pay. Duration 30-60 days. I will consider adding a few more "team" members worldwide. Must act fast. Deadline. Time running out. Hope to launch campaign approx. June 1st or asap. Helpers / Sharers / Promoters: Anyone and everyone is welcome to volunteer to share this crowd-funding campaign worldwide. Young and old, rich and poor. I can use people anywhere, however, these areas could use special support: U.S.; Canada; United Kingdom and especially Australia. Also could use a volunteer freelance graphic artist / designer. This is going to be a real fun online crowd-funding adventure. Anyone curious or interested, "private" message to me at the FB page below. Thank you. Have a blessed day! Sincerely, JR Road Warriors 360 / RW360 Los Angeles, CA, USA www.facebook.com/RoadWarriors360
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Post by Greg on May 24, 2014 13:50:06 GMT -5
Penguin, Jeff did try to keep in touch with the F&W's after leaving the work. As usual, they could get nothing from him, and for his years of service in the work with the 2x2s,... What did they want from him? ...he was simply forgotten. When he first left the work, as many workers that are younger experience, he was looked down on for "leaving his post". He was homeless, and received no help from the F&Ws. This seems strange and is contrary almost 100% to my experience. I wonder why this happened. I asked him why he didn't rent a room, and he said that he didn't need that much space and he has his way of dealing with things, that is really unique. That might be why.
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2014 20:10:48 GMT -5
He used to use the alias of Amigo or Big Brother on an earlier message board.
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Post by BobWilliston on May 25, 2014 0:16:39 GMT -5
When he first left the work, as many workers that are younger experience, he was looked down on for "leaving his post". He was homeless, and received no help from the F&Ws. This seems strange and is contrary almost 100% to my experience. I wonder why this happened. [/quote] I don't know about Washington, but I know that some young men workers in California have been scolded harshly (for lack of a better term) for leaving the work. For sure a lot of people are sympathetic concerning their obvious nervous breakdown, but it seems some people treat being a worker as something like being in a Catholic order -- they don't leave, technically -- they're booted in some manner. From sociology of religion classes I learned that this is an expression of control on the part of those letting him/her go.
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Post by fred on May 25, 2014 4:25:10 GMT -5
When he first left the work, as many workers that are younger experience, he was looked down on for "leaving his post". He was homeless, and received no help from the F&Ws. This seems strange and is contrary almost 100% to my experience. I wonder why this happened. I don't know about Washington, but I know that some young men workers in California have been scolded harshly (for lack of a better term) for leaving the work. For sure a lot of people are sympathetic concerning their obvious nervous breakdown, but it seems some people treat being a worker as something like being in a Catholic order -- they don't leave, technically -- they're booted in some manner. From sociology of religion classes I learned that this is an expression of control on the part of those letting him/her go. [/quote] Yes, in my experience those who leave the work (except for age or serious illness) are viewed rather poorly. The teaching has always been the allegory of putting your hand to the plough and then turning away. I remember one young man who was labouring in S America, he was dealing with sickness and was rundown in health, so much so that the elder worker there told him he better go home. On turning up to the overseer in Aus he was told "you left your post" - no attempt to listen to explanations, just dismissal. He did get the regulation $300 and was sent on his way. Those old time overseers could be hard and cruel. It seems today things are a bit more relaxed, where some are given time to catch their breath before being given the opportunity to return.
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Post by BobWilliston on May 25, 2014 6:52:56 GMT -5
This seems strange and is contrary almost 100% to my experience. I wonder why this happened. I don't know about Washington, but I know that some young men workers in California have been scolded harshly (for lack of a better term) for leaving the work. For sure a lot of people are sympathetic concerning their obvious nervous breakdown, but it seems some people treat being a worker as something like being in a Catholic order -- they don't leave, technically -- they're booted in some manner. From sociology of religion classes I learned that this is an expression of control on the part of those letting him/her go. Yes, in my experience those who leave the work (except for age or serious illness) are viewed rather poorly. The teaching has always been the allegory of putting your hand to the plough and then turning away. I remember one young man who was labouring in S America, he was dealing with sickness and was rundown in health, so much so that the elder worker there told him he better go home. On turning up to the overseer in Aus he was told "you left your post" - no attempt to listen to explanations, just dismissal. He did get the regulation $300 and was sent on his way. Those old time overseers could be hard and cruel. It seems today things are a bit more relaxed, where some are given time to catch their breath before being given the opportunity to return.[/quote] Ironically, I heard the "hand to the plough" passage was used at a convention in California, the "unworthy of me" phrase being even more prominent in the sermon. I forget who it was, but I was naïve enough then to think workers everywhere were generally on the same page theologically, if not in their concept of modesty and sober living.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2014 7:43:11 GMT -5
Having had the most common "hand to the plow" interpretation thrown at me so many times, I have learned to just pity those who think their view regarding it is what the Lord intended. However, for me, having plowed behind an animal by my hand upon the plow (and by tractor) that verse has an entirely different meaning. It, whether by hand or behind a wheel, tells me of crooked furrows, and a poorly plowed field with many weeds, and descriptive of work done by someone unfit for such duty. However, those inexperienced will likely continue in their mindset as to it applying to people other than themselves, no?
For me, it certainly has little to do with Jeff's current situation.
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Post by pianoman2 on May 26, 2014 11:05:07 GMT -5
Greg, I don't know your situation, however as Dennis points out that those that have left the work, either by their own doing or as in Dennis' case, health problems and then excommunication, those that leave are judged unfairly, and I don't see how you can dispute that, as Bob and Fred point out, "they are viewed poorly".
What did they want from Jeff? They wanted his life and his undying dedication to the 2x2 system. When they can't get that, the berate them and I have never heard of a worker that left the work referred to in a positive light.
Jeff, as others that leave the work seem to experience, they are looked down on for not having the "strength" of belief and Jeff was not one that "dealt with things his way" while he was a worker. He followed what he was told, but if you knew Tharold, he was a very difficult man and Jeff told me, "Well you know Tharold, he was my last companion". I couldn't handle being around Tharold for very long, and if you look at his history, he took the overseer position on his own, and by crafty means, and dishonest ways, he self appointed himself as the man he bumped was too gentle and certainly no match for Tharold's brash ways and boldness.
Greg, if you were a worker and left and had a good experience, I am glad as it is a first for me.
Dennis makes an excellent point "For me, it certainly has little to do with Jeff's current situation."
Jeff is not a bum, and not lazy. He has worked hard to get his project off the launching pad, and his ideals and dream is sorely needed. If you have ever been homeless, which I have, you may have more compassion and see that, very much like Jesus, Jeff is living with the poor, brokenhearted and hopeless people that through no acts of their own, became homeless. Even if they became homeless because of drugs and alcohol, in America, the homeless are ignored and the rules of American government almost keep them down. To get help, you must have an address, and I once was seeking help, and living in my pick-up truck. I asked if a license number could be my address. I was working, but wages and rent were not in my favor, so I could either eat and put gas in my vehicle or rent a room and go without eating and driving, which would have cost me my job.
Too many people judge the homeless too harshly. Having been there, one really needs to experience it to understand it fully just as men can not understand childbirth fully because we can not experience it.
Greg, I hate to say this, but perhaps you had a good experience and judge others by what took place in your life. That is not fair or right.
One of the things I hate most about the 2x2ism is the nasty rumors and gossip about others and the huge judgement. Do they not know that they will be judged as they judge.
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Post by Greg on May 26, 2014 16:45:31 GMT -5
Back in 1988 to 1990 five men entered the work in North Dakota. Two to five years later four of them left the work. At least three of them were still professing a few years later. Two of them married professing women. I don't know the situation of one of the four. The fifth is still in the work. As far as I know, of the other three who left the work, none of them faced any or much persecution or accusations or shunning. One did leave for health reasons, but not near as drastic as Dennis' situation. Perhaps North Dakota is different. I wrote a letter to two overseers when I left the work. The companion of one - the fifth mentioned above - once started telling a couple about what I wrote. The wife asked him, "Do you have the letter?" the answer was no. Then, "Did you read the letter?' the answer was no. Then she said, "You shouldn't be telling people what is in the letter." Tharold Sylvester seems to have been a man with problems. I think Nathan B. said he had problems with him. Did the friends and workers not see this? One of the friends in South Dakota once told me, "We always appreciated _____________ (my companion) in our home, but I don't know what he is like as a companion." I had a bit of difficulty with him, but did not leave the work over him nor when I was his companion. Another man had left the work a couple years before I did. He had been in South Dakota for awhile, but I cannot recall - if I ever knew - where he was when he left. Interestingly, he had the same companion as I did when he left. The year following my leaving, this in common companion was sent to North Dakota to be with the overseer's right hand man. In a year he was sent back to his home area still in the work. For me there was no problem with this man. Later in the year I left he was at Hunter convention. Was interesting, humorous, to see people cast glances toward us when we talked. A couple times here there has been mention that Jeff is not a bum, and once in particular in response to what I wrote. I never called Jeff a bum. I think I never implied he is. Of course a response could be, "I never said you called him a bum." Yet the protestation is made. One can wonder if the protestation is in favor of Jeff or of the writer. And I am not calling the writer a bum. If I recall, he has stated he has had accusations made of such about him. I read distain in FaceBook over people that get government help and are thus declared lazy and bums. Some might be, I do not know for sure. Yet I wonder of these people that make claims of their hard work as a cleaner or waitress or clerk, "Why don't you own the company? Or why aren't you a teacher or nurse or doctor or lawyer or CPA? What is wrong with you?" Further, we do not know the mental, emotional, and physical limitations some people have. If I understand correctly, there are a couple million or so unemployed that are not on the unemployed roll. They have passed receiving government help and have stopped looking. Seems they cannot get a job or a job they want. There are issues of being under qualified and over qualified, looking to a man for a job when one is a woman and looking to a woman for a job when one is a man, looking to a white person for a job when one is not white, looking to a person for a job while not knowing that you are being judged prejudicially...and that might simply be about appearance (hair, jewelry, dress). I have read Jeff's website and listened to the video. Interesting that he said he was forced to live in his van while it is written here that he chose (and chooses still?) to live in his van. Of course the contention can be made, "At first he was forced, now he chooses." And that might be. Hard to know. My point here is to not make any judgments on what is said, but wonder why the difference. Log them in memory, "I heard....". As much as I can discern the website is offering assistance in assistance to help those in need. I don't get it, but that is just me. I don't know why there is a target date. Does the concern for the needy go away then? At the time this is out I have read on FaceBook of a backpack help to the needy. Buy a backpack and put in some necessary items. If I recall correctly, five of the needy that were approached wanted the backpack to be given to even the needier...the needy helping the needy. Also, on TV was the man who seeks to have live playing of taps for military funerals. He receives donations and spends at least $10,000 of his own money annually. Not so much a need for food and such, but a help still. Perhaps these could be listed as options on the website to which donators can send donations....or just do themselves.
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Post by Skeptic Al on May 30, 2014 5:06:24 GMT -5
I knew Jeff both when he was in the work and after he left. I don't think he was "dumped out." The way I remember it, he left because it just wasn't for him anymore and he was struggling with some depression. Also, the OP is missing a big chunk of Jeff's story here. Jeff was gainfully employed in WA for many years after he left the work, in the real estate and loan financing world, I believe. Later, he did well as a day trader in the dot com boom, only to lose nearly everything in the 2000 market crash. It was a year or two after that that he began his Vanshion saga. Jeff is a very intelligent and world-wise man and no doubt could have used his talents to "get back on the horse" as they say. He instead has chosen to live the "homeless" life in CA. His work with other homeless people is admirable, and he may be able to eventually turn his RW360 project into a paying career for himself, if that is his goal. Hats off to him, if he does. On the other hand, I know for a fact that he has turned down job offers from some of the friends, while at the same time asking for donations on Facebook so his van doesn't get towed away or whatever. In my book, if you can work and choose not to you're homeless by choice not by circumstances.
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2014 7:22:21 GMT -5
I keep in touch with Jeff from time to time. On the issue of homelessness choice, I think both views are correct. He was originally "forced" to go homeless after losing everything but in time it did become a choice as he tries to get his RW360 program off the ground.
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Post by fixit on May 30, 2014 17:57:17 GMT -5
I knew Jeff both when he was in the work and after he left. I don't think he was "dumped out." The way I remember it, he left because it just wasn't for him anymore and he was struggling with some depression. Also, the OP is missing a big chunk of Jeff's story here. Jeff was gainfully employed in WA for many years after he left the work, in the real estate and loan financing world, I believe. Later, he did well as a day trader in the dot com boom, only to lose nearly everything in the 2000 market crash. It was a year or two after that that he began his Vanshion saga. Jeff is a very intelligent and world-wise man and no doubt could have used his talents to "get back on the horse" as they say. He instead has chosen to live the "homeless" life in CA. His work with other homeless people is admirable, and he may be able to eventually turn his RW360 project into a paying career for himself, if that is his goal. Hats off to him, if he does. On the other hand, I know for a fact that he has turned down job offers from some of the friends, while at the same time asking for donations on Facebook so his van doesn't get towed away or whatever. In my book, if you can work and choose not to you're homeless by choice not by circumstances. Jeff has been given money in the past to get him out of financial difficulties, but in the absence of gainful employment donations go into a black hole. If anyone was in a position to provide training and/or employment, and Jeff was willing to accept it, it would be a good cause.
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Post by pianoman2 on May 31, 2014 12:31:41 GMT -5
Greg, to quote you "Tharold Sylvester seems to have been a man with problems. I think Nathan B. said he had problems with him. Did the friends and workers not see this?" To me this is the biggest problem in the 2x2 system. No checks and balances. No one to answer to for overseers.
Tharold took possession of the leadership in Washington because the current overseer was not a real outgoing person, like Tharold. He was pretty laid back and just didn't do much hands on, which in my opinion is how it should be.
We don't have too far to look to see overseer problems, and only when a lot of damage has been done are they moved, and that is usually what happens. Instead of being removed, they simply take their troubles elsewhere.
I also think that those that take that position are power hungry. Just my thoughts. Who would want a certain job, and most like the power and want it.
I don't think I have been in a state here yet that didn't have overseer problems, and I have lived in all of the states on the west coast, and Arizona.
I think that they have corrupted what once was maybe a good idea, but has become a controlling one.
Just my thoughts
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Post by pianoman2 on May 31, 2014 12:33:21 GMT -5
Al, working for the friends is not always a good idea. I have done it and gotten burned in all but one situation, and in that, the workers came in and split up the two professing owners, and I know one was hurt financially by the split.
It is like loaning money to relatives. Not a good idea.
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Post by pianoman2 on May 31, 2014 12:39:03 GMT -5
For the record, the OP was not about Jeff's life history. Yes he left the work on his own, and he may have had jobs, but I don't know all the facts but I do know the job market and opportunity has changed, and when you are out of the loop, things will change and you may not be able to just walk back in.
I think Jeff will be a success and I still encourage all to send a few bucks to his cause. He is doing fundraising and lots of things as he keeps me posted. He has members on all continents except the Antarctica and he is working on that now.
It takes a lot to tackle a problem like the homeless situation, and if you haven't been there, you can't really comment on it as I have and know it is no picnic. I didn't choose to wind up there but did and I understand the need for exposure and change in people's attitudes to homelessness.
Like I stated above, will you really miss $5.00 dollars?
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2014 15:22:34 GMT -5
Dale, it has been my observation in life, having been on both sides of this "charity" issue, that some people seem to never respect anyone that has needed charity, frequently even throwing it up to them later that they needed, and received such. From my experience, I would much rather be on the giving side of it than the receiving. Not all who give to those in need lack respect, some empathize freely with those in need, revealing their awareness that "there but life's circumstances, go I" and never show any disrespect for the ones they have helped, often forgetting even about doing so.
Why this difference in people? Who knows for certain, however I suspect it is not because of lack of charity, rather lack of character, or else arrogance resulting from "they themselves haven't ever gotten such help." What is the saying? "That which goes around comes around?"
"Paying it forward" is indeed a lovely concept, and worthy of acceptation to my mind and way of thinking. Putting oneself in anothers' position is another way of avoiding having to be put there to learn a lesson. (Waving thanks at an eighty year old in this form who publicly revealed such awareness and understanding.) I've often heard it said, "one reaps what they sow, yet I have both experienced and witness reaping what another has sown, and it is not always so pleasant, neither.
BTW, friend, thank you so very much for helping out up there in Washington State. Time is passing, oh so quickly, is it not? Even when it seems to drag!!!
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2014 17:44:34 GMT -5
I think those who judge JR harshly do so by seeing him as they are, not as he is.
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Post by Greg on Jun 1, 2014 9:43:27 GMT -5
I think those who judge JR harshly do so by seeing him as they are, not as he is. Went to a funeral on Friday. The preacher spoke about the difference between knowing of someone and knowing them - touching on knowing God. The thought was that people in general will expect a certain behavior they imagine for people they hear of, but will accept how the person they know just as that person is.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2014 10:22:20 GMT -5
I think those who judge JR harshly do so by seeing him as they are, not as he is. Went to a funeral on Friday. The preacher spoke about the difference between knowing of someone and knowing them - touching on knowing God. The thought was that people in general will expect a certain behavior they imagine for people they hear of, but will accept how the person they know just as that person is. I think that quite true. It's a little different from the line of thought I was trying to convey though. The way that we relate to others is most often based on what we are like, then we try to recognize that in others. For example, if we are angry most of the time, we will tend to see a lot of angry people around us. If we struggle with greed, we tend to think most people are motivated by greed. That's how we attempt to understand others. So for instance when someone comes along who has no greed at all within them, we can hardly believe it. We don't have a problem accepting physical differences because we can see them. When we see a paraplegic confined to a wheelchair we don't expect them to get up and walk. However, if, for instance, we never suffer from depression, we see a person suffering depression and tend to think "what have you got to be depressed about, your life is just fine!". The comments on JR are something like "you're smart, you had a job before, get a job now, otherwise you are just lazy" and that probably comes from them putting themselves in his position and not actually understanding his position.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2014 10:39:47 GMT -5
Went to a funeral on Friday. The preacher spoke about the difference between knowing of someone and knowing them - touching on knowing God. The thought was that people in general will expect a certain behavior they imagine for people they hear of, but will accept how the person they know just as that person is. I think that quite true. It's a little different from the line of thought I was trying to convey though. The way that we relate to others is most often based on what we are like, then we try to recognize that in others. For example, if we are angry most of the time, we will tend to see a lot of angry people around us. If we struggle with greed, we tend to think most people are motivated by greed. That's how we attempt to understand others. So for instance when someone comes along who has no greed at all within them, we can hardly believe it. We don't have a problem accepting physical differences because we can see them. When we see a paraplegic confined to a wheelchair we don't expect them to get up and walk. However, if, for instance, we never suffer from depression, we see a person suffering depression and tend to think "what have you got to be depressed about, your life is just fine!". The comments on JR are something like "you're smart, you had a job before, get a job now, otherwise you are just lazy" and that probably comes from them putting themselves in his position and not actually understanding his position. what you seem to be describing is hypocrisy and i don't think that is what is happening at all...i vaguely remember jeff leaving the work and i seem to remember when he left he had a job and a place to stay whether that was with a roommate i can't remember...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2014 11:31:13 GMT -5
I think that quite true. It's a little different from the line of thought I was trying to convey though. The way that we relate to others is most often based on what we are like, then we try to recognize that in others. For example, if we are angry most of the time, we will tend to see a lot of angry people around us. If we struggle with greed, we tend to think most people are motivated by greed. That's how we attempt to understand others. So for instance when someone comes along who has no greed at all within them, we can hardly believe it. We don't have a problem accepting physical differences because we can see them. When we see a paraplegic confined to a wheelchair we don't expect them to get up and walk. However, if, for instance, we never suffer from depression, we see a person suffering depression and tend to think "what have you got to be depressed about, your life is just fine!". The comments on JR are something like "you're smart, you had a job before, get a job now, otherwise you are just lazy" and that probably comes from them putting themselves in his position and not actually understanding his position. what you seem to be describing is hypocrisy and i don't think that is what is happening at all...i vaguely remember jeff leaving the work and i seem to remember when he left he had a job and a place to stay whether that was with a roommate i can't remember... What part of it do you consider hypocrisy? I don't understand what you are referring to.
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Post by Greg on Jun 1, 2014 11:53:42 GMT -5
Went to a funeral on Friday. The preacher spoke about the difference between knowing of someone and knowing them - touching on knowing God. The thought was that people in general will expect a certain behavior they imagine for people they hear of, but will accept how the person they know just as that person is. I think that quite true. It's a little different from the line of thought I was trying to convey though. The way that we relate to others is most often based on what we are like, then we try to recognize that in others. For example, if we are angry most of the time, we will tend to see a lot of angry people around us. If we struggle with greed, we tend to think most people are motivated by greed. That's how we attempt to understand others. So for instance when someone comes along who has no greed at all within them, we can hardly believe it. We don't have a problem accepting physical differences because we can see them. When we see a paraplegic confined to a wheelchair we don't expect them to get up and walk. However, if, for instance, we never suffer from depression, we see a person suffering depression and tend to think "what have you got to be depressed about, your life is just fine!". The comments on JR are something like "you're smart, you had a job before, get a job now, otherwise you are just lazy" and that probably comes from them putting themselves in his position and not actually understanding his position. What the preacher said and what you say can be the same. The expected behavior indicated by the preacher can be "expect to be like me." Where do you hear these comments about Jeff?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2014 12:48:27 GMT -5
I think that quite true. It's a little different from the line of thought I was trying to convey though. The way that we relate to others is most often based on what we are like, then we try to recognize that in others. For example, if we are angry most of the time, we will tend to see a lot of angry people around us. If we struggle with greed, we tend to think most people are motivated by greed. That's how we attempt to understand others. So for instance when someone comes along who has no greed at all within them, we can hardly believe it. We don't have a problem accepting physical differences because we can see them. When we see a paraplegic confined to a wheelchair we don't expect them to get up and walk. However, if, for instance, we never suffer from depression, we see a person suffering depression and tend to think "what have you got to be depressed about, your life is just fine!". The comments on JR are something like "you're smart, you had a job before, get a job now, otherwise you are just lazy" and that probably comes from them putting themselves in his position and not actually understanding his position. What the preacher said and what you say can be the same. The expected behavior indicated by the preacher can be "expect to be like me." Maybe. The comments I referred to are on this thread, but I have heard similar comments many times and at one time I thought they were reasonable comments. The point is, a person has to be careful when prescribing behaviour for others. As I mentioned, don't expect a paraplegic to walk like you. Similarly, don't expect that someone's life choices can or should be the same as what you would do in similar circumstances. (I don't mean "you" in particular, just generally).
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