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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2014 18:02:52 GMT -5
Quote from Dennis' thread "My belief re Hell" - "... that spiritual realm we think of as "heaven"? Where does that come from?"
Good question. I would like to employ the same logic, and see if I can choose a different conclusion.
I believe there is hell, but no heaven.
Just as "gehenna" meant "garbage tip" the word "heaven" meant sky.
The word "heaven" signified "sky, firmament"[1] (e.g. in Beowulf, c. 725). The English term has cognates in the other Germanic languages: Old Saxon heƀan "sky, heaven", Middle Low German heven "sky", Old Icelandic himinn "sky, heaven", Gothic himins; and those with a variant final -l: Old Frisian himel, himul "sky, heaven", Old Saxon/Old High German himil, Dutch hemel, and modern German Himmel. All of these have been derived from a reconstructed Proto- Germanic form *Hemina-.[2] In many languages, the word for "heaven" is the same as the word for "sky".
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heaven
And hell comes from the hate of God. The bible is full of God's hate - just read the story of Noah, or the Jews in captivity, or all dying on the way to the strife-ridden "promised land." The Gospels attest to this hate - Jesus was one who judged and ruled over others, and taught His own the same.
As the world teaches us, judging or controlling others is not love, but hate.
And we all know His statement that all have sinned, and none is worthy of heaven.
And Jesus threatened Jerusalem with seige and death; Capernium with being thrust to hell; the Jews carried into captivity and even the killing of children and pregnant women. Worse He spoke of all manner of wars, earthquakes, even the final killing of all on earth.
And so far, a lot of this He has actually carried out.
But for how long is "Hell"? It's for eternity.
But the word "eternity" derrives from an eccentice Australian farmer who travelled around cities chalking this tag everywhere. Arthur Stace did this from the 1930's to the 1960's. And over half a million times. That's a long time, that's a lot of chalking. That's where our word "eternity" comes from.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2014 18:15:50 GMT -5
There's a warning in all this. If we believe God won't do what He says He will do, if we won't believe the bible IS God's word --- then all we have left to go by is ETYMOLOGY. Etymology is more the history of words. This involves: Philological research. Changes in the form and meaning of the word can be traced with the aid of older texts, if such are available. Making use of dialectological data. The form or meaning of the word might show variations between dialects, which may yield clues about its earlier history. The comparative method. By a systematic comparison of related languages, etymologists may often be able to detect which words derive from their common ancestor language and which were instead later borrowed from another language. The study of semantic change. Etymologists must often make hypotheses about changes in the meaning of particular words. Such hypotheses are tested against the general knowledge of semantic shifts. For example, the assumption of a particular change of meaning may be substantiated by showing that the same type of change has occurred in other languages as well.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etymology
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Post by snow on Apr 15, 2014 18:57:58 GMT -5
"Imagine"
Imagine there's no heaven It's easy if you try No hell below us Above us only sky Imagine all the people Living for today...
Imagine there's no countries It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for And no religion too Imagine all the people Living life in peace...
You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you'll join us And the world will be as one
Imagine no possessions I wonder if you can No need for greed or hunger A brotherhood of man Imagine all the people Sharing all the world...
You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you'll join us And the world will live as one
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2014 19:21:56 GMT -5
This is Lennon's Communism. (Not much different to Lennin's Communism, just ask Don Maclean.) Not that he lived it himself, of course (being one for money and possessions.) And his prediliction for drugs, and the promotion of them, gave a big shot in the arm to Mexican narcos, the Mafia and their ilk. I stayed for a while on 72nd Street, not far from where he was shot. His memorial with the words of the above song, can be found across the road in Central Park. Crowds gather around it - he's an idol.
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Post by snow on Apr 15, 2014 19:48:48 GMT -5
This is Lennon's Communism. (Not much different to Lennin's Communism, just ask Don Maclean.) Not that he lived it himself, of course (being one for money and possessions.) And his prediliction for drugs, and the promotion of them, gave a big shot in the arm to Mexican narcos, the Mafia and their ilk. I stayed for a while on 72nd Street, not far from where he was shot. His memorial with the words of the above song, can be found across the road in Central Park. Crowds gather around it - he's an idol. It seemed to be what sprung to my mind when you made the statement there is no heaven.
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Post by faune on Apr 15, 2014 21:38:45 GMT -5
This is Lennon's Communism. (Not much different to Lennin's Communism, just ask Don Maclean.) Not that he lived it himself, of course (being one for money and possessions.) And his prediliction for drugs, and the promotion of them, gave a big shot in the arm to Mexican narcos, the Mafia and their ilk. I stayed for a while on 72nd Street, not far from where he was shot. His memorial with the words of the above song, can be found across the road in Central Park. Crowds gather around it - he's an idol. Bert ~ I believe Don McLean's song, American Pie, was in reference to the day that Buddy Holly was killed in a plane crash ~ namely, "the day the music died?" Check out this video for some information on the meaning being the lyrics of his famous song. He even references the Bible in this song, too, if I remember right? In regards to John Lennon and his famous song, "Imagine," written just before he was assassinated, I'm aware that he claimed to be an agnostic before he died. However, I wouldn't label him a Communist within the same breath due to this fact? If that's the case, then there are a few Communists posting on this Board tonight ~ in fact, that would make Snow one, too, since she also claims to be an agnostic?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsZFiMo8TIc
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Post by xna on Apr 15, 2014 21:58:19 GMT -5
This is Lennon's Communism. (Not much different to Lennin's Communism, just ask Don Maclean.) Not that he lived it himself, of course (being one for money and possessions.) And his prediliction for drugs, and the promotion of them, gave a big shot in the arm to Mexican narcos, the Mafia and their ilk. I stayed for a while on 72nd Street, not far from where he was shot. His memorial with the words of the above song, can be found across the road in Central Park. Crowds gather around it - he's an idol. Bert ~ I thought Don McLean's song, American Pie, was in reference to the plane crash that killed Buddy Holly ~ the day that rock and roll died? Check out this video for some information on the meaning being the lyrics of his famous song. He even references the Bible in this song, too, if I remember right?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsZFiMo8TIc
I thought of " It Ain't Necessarily So" by George Gershwin and lIra Gershwin. The song comes from the Gershwins' opera Porgy and Bess (1935) youtu.be/u1eSiso7VZs
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Post by snow on Apr 15, 2014 22:00:36 GMT -5
This is Lennon's Communism. (Not much different to Lennin's Communism, just ask Don Maclean.) Not that he lived it himself, of course (being one for money and possessions.) And his prediliction for drugs, and the promotion of them, gave a big shot in the arm to Mexican narcos, the Mafia and their ilk. I stayed for a while on 72nd Street, not far from where he was shot. His memorial with the words of the above song, can be found across the road in Central Park. Crowds gather around it - he's an idol. Bert ~ I thought Don McLean's song, American Pie, was in reference to the day that Buddy Holly was killed in a plane crash ~ namely, the day that rock and roll died? Check out this video for some information on the meaning being the lyrics of his famous song. He even references the Bible in this song, too, if I remember right? In regards to John Lennon and his famous song, "Imagine," written just before he was assassinated, I'm aware that he claimed to be an agnostic before he died. However, I wouldn't label him a Communist within the same breath due to this fact? If that's the case, then there are a few Communists posting on this Board tonight ~ in fact, that would make Snow one, too, since she also claims to be an agnostic?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsZFiMo8TIc
faune, american pie was about Buddy Holly. This is something I followed because Waylon Jennings was in his band at the time and was supposed to be on that plane. One of the other band members wasn't feeling good, so Waylon offered to give his seat to them and he went on the bus. He felt awful about that for a long time. He should have been on that plane, but thankfully he wasn't. Bert just tries to belittle anything good. it's part of that thing he has about finding joy in anything. I believe it's against his rules for life.
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Post by faune on Apr 15, 2014 22:04:19 GMT -5
Bert ~ I thought Don McLean's song, American Pie, was in reference to the plane crash that killed Buddy Holly ~ "the day that the music died?" Check out this video for some information on the meaning being the lyrics of his famous song. He even references the Bible in this song, too, if I remember right?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsZFiMo8TIc
I thought of " It Ain't Necessarily So" by George Gershwin and lIra Gershwin. The song comes from the Gershwins' opera Porgy and Bess (1935) youtu.be/u1eSiso7VZs Xna ~ Arethra Franklin was quite a blues singer! I never heard this song before, but it does have a lot of references to old Bible stories in it and a message related to the same in "It Ain't Necessarily So."
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Post by xna on Apr 15, 2014 22:13:55 GMT -5
I thought of " It Ain't Necessarily So" by George Gershwin and lIra Gershwin. The song comes from the Gershwins' opera Porgy and Bess (1935) youtu.be/u1eSiso7VZs Xna ~ Arethra Franklin was quite a blues singer! I never heard this song before, but it does have a lot of references to old Bible stories in it and a message related to the same in "It Ain't Necessarily So." Gershwin was an atheist, and so is his son. There seems to be a lot of famous song writers ( especially Jewish) that were atheist. I don't know why. www.stlyrics.com/songs/g/georgegershwin8836/itaintnecessarilyso299755.html
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Post by faune on Apr 15, 2014 22:20:07 GMT -5
Bert ~ I thought Don McLean's song, American Pie, was in reference to the day that Buddy Holly was killed in a plane crash ~ namely, "the day the music died?" Check out this video for some information on the meaning being the lyrics of his famous song. He even references the Bible in this song, too, if I remember right? In regards to John Lennon and his famous song, "Imagine," written just before he was assassinated, I'm aware that he claimed to be an agnostic before he died. However, I wouldn't label him a Communist within the same breath due to this fact? If that's the case, then there are a few Communists posting on this Board tonight ~ in fact, that would make Snow one, too, since she also claims to be an agnostic?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsZFiMo8TIc
faune, american pie was about Buddy Holly. This is something I followed because Waylon Jennings was in his band at the time and was supposed to be on that plane. One of the other band members wasn't feeling good, so Waylon offered to give his seat to them and he went on the bus. He felt awful about that for a long time. He should have been on that plane, but thankfully he wasn't. Bert just tries to belittle anything good. it's part of that thing he has about finding joy in anything. I believe it's against his rules for life. Snow ~ I remember hearing that about Waylon Jennings was supposed to be on that plane that crashed in February 1959, which not only killed Buddy Holly, but Ritchie Valens, the Big Bopper (J. P. Richardson) and the pilot of his chartered plane. In fact, Waylon gave J. P. Richardson or "The Big Bopper" his seat on the plane, since he had a cold, and Waylon and another musician took the bus to their next tour stop. Unfortunately, the plane crashed shortly after taking off from Clear Lake, Iowa and all were killed on board. A friend of mine back in my working days had Waylon for her neighbor in Nashville for a number of years before he moved to Arizona where he later died in February 2002.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waylon_Jennings
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Post by xna on Apr 15, 2014 22:22:21 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2014 0:26:35 GMT -5
Quote - "I wouldn't label him a Communist within the same breath due to this fact?"
No, not angnostic, but "no possessions" mainly.
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