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Post by déjà vu on Apr 14, 2014 20:24:39 GMT -5
Is giving to Christian charities / missions, condoned by F&W or could it result in excommunication ?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2014 20:28:34 GMT -5
actually its never come up as a topic for conversation that i can remember with the workers, i suppose it could be seen as giving "God speed" to them...
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Post by kencoolidge on Apr 16, 2014 5:33:59 GMT -5
actually its never come up as a topic for conversation that i can remember with the workers, i suppose it could be seen as giving "God speed" to them... Wally Irving Ross spoke with disdain on donating to the Salvation Army in our home. ken
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2014 6:27:29 GMT -5
Ken, I don't know what my church friends do regards charity. I certainly know what SOME churches do for charity - they let everyone know.
Matthew 6:1-4, “Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven. Thus, when you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.”
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2014 7:09:02 GMT -5
Ken, I don't know what my church friends do regards charity. I certainly know what SOME churches do for charity - they let everyone know......except for the ones who don't let everyone know.....which is most of them. The only entities which widely broadcast their "charity" is commercial firms. In most cases it's not charity, it's self promotion and the public recognizes that and gives them their reward on earth since most commercial firms aren't looking to go to heaven. Charitable operations can't be hidden when they are something that needs to be accomplished by group effort. Many community needs have to be accomplished by groups. Thank goodness they go ahead and do those things even though people might criticize them for not hiding what they cannot hide and say they are "letting everyone know". As far as the possibility of 2x2's getting excommunicated for charitable efforts, it's highly unlikely unless Bert reports them for volunteering on Gay Pride Day. We do know for a fact that Bert didn't get excommunicated for giving and giving and giving to Africa......and letting everyone know about it, so that's a positive indicator.
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Post by reallyandtruly on Apr 16, 2014 7:26:13 GMT -5
Why would the workers have anything to say because... how would they know??. Aren't you meant to give your donations to charity as quietly and anonymously as possible?. We must be way behind other countries because we haven't been asked to submit a copy of our annual accounts to the workers yet!!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2014 7:30:00 GMT -5
Why would the workers have anything to say because... how would they know??. Aren't you meant to give your donations to charity as quietly and anonymously as possible?. We must be way behind other countries because we haven't been asked to submit a copy of our annual accounts to the workers yet!! If you were donating your time to a charitable effort and were missing meetings, what would you say when asked why you weren't attending?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2014 7:30:38 GMT -5
It is not any Worker's business what any person gives to charity. And I am sure no Worker would WANT to know.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2014 7:37:43 GMT -5
There are many people who believe that the REAL ISSUE is Global Warming. Now instead of topping up someone's welfare fund you could help stop the polar caps melting, forests burning and people drowning. I mean, what's more important?
Well... back in the 1980's some people said the REAL ISSUE is AIDS because millions upon millions could die.
So maybe we could have a church liturgy which goes something like this: 2 minute - Prayer for Global Warming 1 minute - Talk on AIDS and the need for condoms and the evil of big pharma 1 minute - Talk on Russia's designs on Ukraine. 1 minute - Talk on Syrian refugees. 1 minute - Talk on famine in the horn of Africa 1 minute - Talk on Africa in general 5 minute - Talk on Globalization and the evils of greed and Capitalism. 1 minute - Talk on cancer research etc
This could easily swallow up an hour. You can send your parishioners home totally dazed.
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Post by snow on Apr 16, 2014 11:32:08 GMT -5
Ken, I don't know what my church friends do regards charity. I certainly know what SOME churches do for charity - they let everyone know. Matthew 6:1-4, “Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven. Thus, when you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.”do you pray in public? Jesus had something to say about that. He said don't do it, do it in private.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2014 11:47:48 GMT -5
that doesn't include giving thanks for food...as he gave thanks in public
mat_15:36 And he took the seven loaves and the fishes, and gave thanks, and brake them, and gave to his disciples, and the disciples to the multitude. Mat_26:27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; Mar_8:6 And he commanded the people to sit down on the ground: and he took the seven loaves, and gave thanks, and brake, and gave to his disciples to set before them; and they did set them before the people. Mar_14:23 And he took the cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them: and they all drank of it. Luk_2:38 And she coming in that instant gave thanks likewise unto the Lord, and spake of him to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem. Luk_17:16 And fell down on his face at his feet, giving him thanks: and he was a Samaritan. Luk_22:17 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves: Luk_22:19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. Joh_6:11 And Jesus took the loaves; and when he had given thanks, he distributed to the disciples, and the disciples to them that were set down; and likewise of the fishes as much as they would. Joh_6:23 (Howbeit there came other boats from Tiberias nigh unto the place where they did eat bread, after that the Lord had given thanks:) Act_27:35 And when he had thus spoken, he took bread, and gave thanks to God in presence of them all: and when he had broken it, he began to eat.
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Post by jondough on Apr 16, 2014 12:52:45 GMT -5
ummmm.....isn't it quite simple. Or are Jesus worlds to simple for you to understand?
He said to give to the poor and needy. Wouldn't that mean someone who isn't sure where their next meal is going to come from.....or may not have a mattress pillow along with some shelter?
Could it not be someone we don't know......you know.....kind of like that guy good the Samaritan happened to stumble upon?
I doubt he was talking about the person who's laptop is on the fritz and needs a new one.
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Post by whyisitso on Apr 16, 2014 17:37:25 GMT -5
Ken, I don't know what my church friends do regards charity. I certainly know what SOME churches do for charity - they let everyone know......except for the ones who don't let everyone know.....which is most of them. The only entities which widely broadcast their "charity" is commercial firms. In most cases it's not charity, it's self promotion and the public recognizes that and gives them their reward on earth since most commercial firms aren't looking to go to heaven. Charitable operations can't be hidden when they are something that needs to be accomplished by group effort. Many community needs have to be accomplished by groups. Thank goodness they go ahead and do those things even though people might criticize them for not hiding what they cannot hide and say they are "letting everyone know". As far as the possibility of 2x2's getting excommunicated for charitable efforts, it's highly unlikely unless Bert reports them for volunteering on Gay Pride Day. We do know for a fact that Bert didn't get excommunicated for giving and giving and giving to Africa......and letting everyone know about it, so that's a positive indicator. That's gold! Someone on this thread/board reminds me of a worker. Only answers what he/she wants to answer. Only acknowledges what he/she wants to acknowledge. As far as charitable giving I think it's far more effective to give to people/situations that you know directly.... As opposed to 'big' charities where at least half of your donation would go in salaries.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2014 18:25:49 GMT -5
.....except for the ones who don't let everyone know.....which is most of them. The only entities which widely broadcast their "charity" is commercial firms. In most cases it's not charity, it's self promotion and the public recognizes that and gives them their reward on earth since most commercial firms aren't looking to go to heaven. Charitable operations can't be hidden when they are something that needs to be accomplished by group effort. Many community needs have to be accomplished by groups. Thank goodness they go ahead and do those things even though people might criticize them for not hiding what they cannot hide and say they are "letting everyone know". As far as the possibility of 2x2's getting excommunicated for charitable efforts, it's highly unlikely unless Bert reports them for volunteering on Gay Pride Day. We do know for a fact that Bert didn't get excommunicated for giving and giving and giving to Africa......and letting everyone know about it, so that's a positive indicator. That's gold! Someone on this thread/board reminds me of a worker. Only answers what he/she wants to answer. Only acknowledges what he/she wants to acknowledge. As far as charitable giving I think it's far more effective to give to people/situations that you know directly.... As opposed to 'big' charities where at least half of your donation would go in salaries. I think you are quite right about giving to a direct need. Of course that usually breaks Bert's requirement that it be kept secret unless you are able to sneak some cash into someone's pocket when they aren't looking. But never never do a good deed for a neighbour because they will know it was you who did it! It's not easy being charitable and anonymous! Seriously, a friend of ours who is a highly educated African told us not to give to organizations in Africa because so much gets siphoned off in corruption. Best to give to a specific project in Africa that you know about the people running it and will make sure that the money goes to the project. Never give where something is being doled out by government officials, you are wasting your money and feeding corruption. Social media is changing the face of cash-giving. In the last month, 3 local important needs came up on Facebook and Twitter and giving was just a few clicks away. In two of the circumstances most people would never have heard of if not for Facebook and other social media. These were situations where 100% went to the need and because it was local, it was easy to verify that it wasn't a scam. Interestingly, they could all be done anonymously so Bert would love that.
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Post by whyisitso on Apr 16, 2014 18:48:18 GMT -5
That's gold! Someone on this thread/board reminds me of a worker. Only answers what he/she wants to answer. Only acknowledges what he/she wants to acknowledge. As far as charitable giving I think it's far more effective to give to people/situations that you know directly.... As opposed to 'big' charities where at least half of your donation would go in salaries. I think you are quite right about giving to a direct need. Of course that usually breaks Bert's requirement that it be kept secret unless you are able to sneak some cash into someone's pocket when they aren't looking. But never never do a good deed for a neighbour because they will know it was you who did it! It's not easy being charitable and anonymous! Seriously, a friend of ours who is a highly educated African told us not to give to organizations in Africa because so much gets siphoned off in corruption. Best to give to a specific project in Africa that you know about the people running it and will make sure that the money goes to the project. Never give where something is being doled out by government officials, you are wasting your money and feeding corruption. Social media is changing the face of cash-giving. In the last month, 3 local important needs came up on Facebook and Twitter and giving was just a few clicks away. In two of the circumstances most people would never have heard of if not for Facebook and other social media. These were situations where 100% went to the need and because it was local, it was easy to verify that it wasn't a scam. Interestingly, they could all be done anonymously so Bert would love that. Of course by the time you finish 'donating' to the Christian Assemblies/Conventions or whatever name it is these days there might not be much left for those other 'charities'
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2014 23:14:22 GMT -5
Jesus said He is the Way,the Truth and the Life: John14:6. We can only claim that we are part of His Way,Truth and Life if we follow Him. No fellowship can say they ARE the Truth ,there might be some in there fellowship that are part of the Truth because they follow Jesus. Jesus said we must love our neighbor as our self ,if we do this we are going to be charitable.Jesus explained in the parable about the good Samaritan how we should love our neighbor.God told the Jews how to be charitable: Deuteronomy 15:7-11. Paul collected multiple times for the poor Christians.I John 3:17-21 tells us about the charitable love of God we should have.Jesus is going to judge us one day according to the charity we have shown to others ,Matthew 25:31-46.If we don't have charity in our fellowship then we are not following the TRUE WAY threw Jesus.How can we be ambassadors for Gods way without charity ?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2014 7:01:39 GMT -5
Is giving to Christian charities / missions, condoned by F&W or could it result in excommunication ? I sponsor a child in a third world country through World Vision which is an interdenominational Christian based charity. My understanding is that 20% of donations go to administration.
There are some Friends that will drop off unwanted goods at the Salvation Army thrift shop.
I am only saying this to point out that, yes some Friends do support Christian based charities.
Maybe not condoned, but I doubt either of the above would result in excommunication. There are a number of sites which rank or rate charitable organizations which is a good idea when people are looking for a way to give. In this particular site for instance, www.charitywatch.org/toprated.html , World Vision gets an A- rating which is pretty good. I agree that some friends are active on charitable activities, including both giving money and doing pro bono community work. My primary 2x2 criticism is that at one time, giving to "the world" was once actually preached against (with a lot of vehemence against faith-based charities like Salvation Army) and today the issue is wrongly treated with silence. I suppose it is difficult for workers to recommend charitable efforts when they make no "outside" efforts themselves.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2014 7:31:43 GMT -5
I feel that most people who speak about charity are FACTUALLY WRONG. that includes: 1-aid to Africa 2-religions based around charity 3-perceptions of charity in the gospels 4-how charity funds are raised 5-the reasons for poverty 6-the definition of poverty 7-preventing poverty T.E.D. CONFERENCE ON POVERTY.Here is something seriously interesting about how charity funds are raised. Activist and fundraiser Dan Pallotta calls out the double standard that drives our broken relationship to charities. Too many nonprofits, he says, are rewarded for how little they spend — not for what they get done. Instead of equating frugality with morality, he asks us to start rewarding charities for their big goals and big accomplishments (even if that comes with big expenses). In this bold talk, he says: Let's change the way we think about changing the world. www.ted.com/talks/dan_pallotta_the_way_we_think_about_charity_is_dead_wrong
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Post by Annan on Apr 17, 2014 7:49:40 GMT -5
What ever happened to letting God be your guide? Should that not apply to all aspects of our lives?
My Baptist aunt once told me that Christian love means seeking out and meeting the needs of others. I love that. Remove the word Christian and you have a universal golden rule.
In my opinion, unless you are giving, you do not deserve to take. Giving can simply be raising your children to honor and respect their fellow man. If we all gave an hour of our time in some capacity in service to others, what a difference we would make in the world!
There is a lady down the street from me who's husband passed away. She doesn't drive and has a disabled daughter. The only people that offer any help are my husband and I and the local pastor. She said to me once that the neighbors run in the house as fast as they can when they see her as they are afraid she might ask a favor. These are the same neighbors that attend the church across the street from her house. How hard would it be to form a charitable group within the church to run errands and provide shuttle service for those that need? The neighbor lady down the street is not Christian. I rather think that is the problem.
My problem with most all Christians I know is that they do not practice what they preach. Hypocrisy at its finest.
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