Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2014 21:45:29 GMT -5
Did any read of the Coptic manuscript claiming Jesus was married?
Imagine it was true (which I am sure it isn't - Coptics said all sorts of things about Jesus in later periods)
So here we have four Gospels which go into great detail about his mother, father, brothers and sisters. We read about His ornery townsfolk. We know His mother was with Him often. We know His brothers and sisters came along sometimes, too. We know that John took care of Mary when Jesus was crucified.
No mention of any wife and kids in the Gospels, Acts or Epistles. Even the religious leaders didn't use the dead-beat Dad line against Him. And remember, dead-beat Dad's faced severe opprobrium.
But if He had them then what would that say about Jesus?
Jesus went into the Ministry at 30 years of age. If He was married then I suggest He would have married early to late 20's. His wife could have been much younger, as we presume Mary was to Joseph. No contraception back then - He could have had half a dozen kids, the eldest not even a teenager. No welfare back then either.
So here is Jesus allowing His mother to follow Him, but not His wife and kids. Here He favors John to care for Mary instead of his wife and kids.
Like John; many of the prophets before and many of the Apostles after, we infer Jesus was not married. Jesus' bride was His church.
There is nothing mandated about the early preachers not marrying. Some did, but I believe the great majority weren't. Simply because here were men (mostly) who went from city to city, in rotating pairs, preaching and living off the largess of their fellow brethren. Like Jesus they referred to the church as their bride. And none would have asked nor expected others to partake in the austerity of their lives. Jesus told these preachers the "corn of wheat falling into the ground and dying" analogy after they went out preaching - those who gave up everything in their lives to preach the Gospel were showing the value of that Message.
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Apr 12, 2014 22:19:04 GMT -5
Did any read of the Coptic manuscript claiming Jesus was married? Imagine it was true (which I am sure it isn't - Coptics said all sorts of things about Jesus in later periods) So here we have four Gospels which go into great detail about his mother, father, brothers and sisters. We read about His ornery townsfolk. We know His mother was with Him often. We know His brothers and sisters came along sometimes, too. We know that John took care of Mary when Jesus was crucified. No mention of any wife and kids in the Gospels, Acts or Epistles. Even the religious leaders didn't use the dead-beat Dad line against Him. And remember, dead-beat Dad's faced severe opprobrium. But if He had them then what would that say about Jesus? Jesus went into the Ministry at 30 years of age. If He was married then I suggest He would have married early to late 20's. His wife could have been much younger, as we presume Mary was to Joseph. No contraception back then - He could have had half a dozen kids, the eldest not even a teenager. No welfare back then either. So here is Jesus allowing His mother to follow Him, but not His wife and kids. Here He favors John to care for Mary instead of his wife and kids. Like John; many of the prophets before and many of the Apostles after, we infer Jesus was not married. Jesus' bride was His church. There is nothing mandated about the early preachers not marrying. Some did, but I believe the great majority weren't. Simply because here were men (mostly) who went from city to city, in rotating pairs, preaching and living off the largess of their fellow brethren. Like Jesus they referred to the church as their bride. And none would have asked nor expected others to partake in the austerity of their lives. Jesus told these preachers the "corn of wheat falling into the ground and dying" analogy after they went out preaching - those who gave up everything in their lives to preach the Gospel were showing the value of that Message. Which Copts are you referring to? The Christian Copts or the Pagan Copts? The Christian ones might be offended with you. Why don't you tell me what they have said about Jesus and I will quiz my friend to see if it's true. My best friend in town is a Coptic Christian, you know. I'm surprised you know so much detail about Jesus family. I would like to know where I can read the details.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2014 1:42:42 GMT -5
Quote - "I'm surprised you know so much detail about Jesus family. I would like to know where I can read the details." Wha... it's in your bible! King James New King James International New International Revised New English etc. ... all say the same, sort of.
King David said Jesus would have brothers and sisters (who wouldn't believe, incidentally) Isaiah said Jesus would be born of a virgin, and a "root out of dry ground.") Jacob said Jesus would come from his own son, Judah. Micah said he would come from Bethlehem. Hosea said Jesus would be called out of Egypt. Jeremiah said evil men would kill all the infants of Bethlehem. Isaiah said he would grow in Nazareth.
... and Matthew, Mark, Luke and John filled in the details.
|
|
|
Post by Dubious Disciple (xdc) on Apr 13, 2014 12:17:50 GMT -5
Learn something new every day! Where did King David say Jesus would have siblings? I'm intrigued.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2014 22:59:17 GMT -5
Learn something new every day! Where did King David say Jesus would have siblings? I'm intrigued. Psalm 69, " I am a foreigner to my own family, a stranger to my own mother’s children;" John 7, "For no one does anything in secret when he himself seeks to be known publicly. If You do these things, show Yourself to the world." For not even His brothers were believing in Him. So Jesus said to them, "My time is not yet here, but your time is always opportune. The world cannot hate you, but it hates Me because I testify of it, that its deeds are evil." So here we have brothers and sisters of Jesus not believing in him. They couldn't understand why He wanted to save the whole world but was secretive about the mission. And here Jesus tells them the world cannot hate them because they themselves are of the world. But anyone who does come to Jesus will themselves be hated, as He is hated.
All this paints a different picture of Jesus, doesn't it?
|
|
|
Post by StAnne on Apr 13, 2014 23:59:50 GMT -5
Learn something new every day! Where did King David say Jesus would have siblings? I'm intrigued. Psalm 69, " I am a foreigner to my own family, a stranger to my own mother’s children;" John 7, "For no one does anything in secret when he himself seeks to be known publicly. If You do these things, show Yourself to the world." For not even His brothers were believing in Him. So Jesus said to them, "My time is not yet here, but your time is always opportune. The world cannot hate you, but it hates Me because I testify of it, that its deeds are evil." So here we have brothers and sisters of Jesus not believing in him. They couldn't understand why He wanted to save the whole world but was secretive about the mission. And here Jesus tells them the world cannot hate them because they themselves are of the world. But anyone who does come to Jesus will themselves be hated, as He is hated.
All this paints a different picture of Jesus, doesn't it?No. It doesn't. Not anymore than Lot was Abram's brother. 14And when Abram heard that his brother was taken captive, he armed his trained servants, born in his own house, three hundred and eighteen, and pursued them unto Dan. 15And he divided himself against them, he and his servants, by night, and smote them, and pursued them unto Hobah, which is on the left hand of Damascus. 16And he brought back all the goods, and also brought again his brother Lot, and his goods, and the women also, and the people. Genesis 14 ◄ 251. ach ► Strong's Concordance ach: a brother Original Word: אָח Part of Speech: Noun Masculine Transliteration: ach Phonetic Spelling: (awkh) Short Definition: brother biblehub.com/hebrew/251.htm
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2014 0:04:33 GMT -5
Yes, "brother" has different meanings in different contexts. We are all "brothers and sisters" here. But when someone says "Your mother's children" we know that means our siblings. Ditto too with the Gospel accounts of brothers (named) and sisters growing up with Jesus, yet not "believing" in him.
|
|
|
Post by StAnne on Apr 14, 2014 0:16:30 GMT -5
Yes, "brother" has different meanings in different contexts. We are all "brothers and sisters" here. But when someone says "Your mother's children" we know that means our siblings. Ditto too with the Gospel accounts of brothers (named) and sisters growing up with Jesus, yet not "believing" in him. Jewish law was so written, and Jewish tradition so strong, that there is no way Jesus could have given the care of Mary to John if there were any other natural siblings. Why is Mary only ever referred to as ' the mother of Jesus' if there were other siblings born of her? Because there were no other children born of her.
|
|
|
Post by StAnne on Apr 14, 2014 0:22:48 GMT -5
Parallel Commentaries Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary69:1-12 We should frequently consider the person of the Sufferer here spoken of, and ask why, as well as what he suffered, that, meditating thereon, we may be more humbled for sin, and more convinced of our danger, so that we may feel more gratitude and love, constraining us to live to His glory who died for our salvation. Hence we learn, when in affliction, to commit the keeping of our souls to God, that we may not be soured with discontent, or sink into despair. David was hated wrongfully, but the words far more fully apply to Christ. In a world where unrighteousness reigns so much, we must not wonder if we meet with those that are our enemies wrongfully. Let us take care that we never do wrong; then if we receive wrong, we may the better bear it. By the satisfaction Christ made to God for our sin by his blood, he restored that which he took not away, he paid our debt, suffered for our offences. Even when we can plead Not guilty, as to men's unjust accusations, yet before God we must acknowledge ourselves to deserve all that is brought upon us. All our sins take rise from our foolishness. They are all done in God's sight. David complains of the unkindness of friends and relations. This was fulfilled in Christ, whose brethren did not believe on him, and who was forsaken by his disciples. Christ made satisfaction for us, not only by putting off the honours due to God, but by submitting to the greatest dishonours that could be done to any man. We need not be discouraged if our zeal for the truths, precepts, and worship of God, should provoke some, and cause others to mock our godly sorrow and deadness to the world. Pulpit CommentaryVerse 8. - I am become a stranger unto my brethren, and an alien unto my mother's children. The preference of David over all his elder brethren was calculated to arouse their jealousy (1 Samuel 16:6-13); and Eliab's hostile feeling is distinctly shown in 1 Samuel 17:28. We may gather from Psalm 38:, as well as from the present passage, that the alienation continued, and was not confined to Eliab. Gill's Exposition of the Entire BibleI am become a stranger unto my brethren,.... Not only to the Jews in general, who were his own people and nation, to whom he came, and of whom he came; who received him not, hid as it were their faces from him, and rejected him as the Messiah; but also to such who were still nearer akin to him, according to the flesh, who did not believe in him, John 7:5; and even in some sense to his disciples and followers; some of which having heard some doctrines delivered by him not agreeable to them, withdrew from him, and walked no more with him, John 6:60; yea, to his apostles, whom he often called his brethren: one of these betrayed him, another denied him with oaths and cursing, and all of them forsook him and fled, when he was taken by his enemies, and about to suffer death; and an alien unto my mother's children; which is the same as before, in other words. The Targum is, "as the son of the Gentiles to my mother's children;'' that is, as an Heathen to them; see Matthew 18:17. biblehub.com/psalms/69-8.htm
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2014 0:31:45 GMT -5
Yes, "brother" has different meanings in different contexts. We are all "brothers and sisters" here. But when someone says "Your mother's children" we know that means our siblings. Ditto too with the Gospel accounts of brothers (named) and sisters growing up with Jesus, yet not "believing" in him. Jewish law was so written, and Jewish tradition so strong, that there is no way Jesus could have given the care of Mary to John if there were any other natural siblings. Why is Mary only ever referred to as ' the mother of Jesus' if there were other siblings born of her? Because there were no other children born of her. Yes, the "Mother of Jesus" was an amazing title to have. Any bible student, historian or even casual reader of the bible has no problem with Jesus having brothers and sisters. It's only those who are into "Marian worship" who have an issue because they have been told that Mary remained a virgin all her life. To me - such a doctrine misses the point of Jesus, and worse, distracts with this "eternal virgin" and "queen of heaven" stuff.
Your doctrine is as far from mine as the north pole is from the south.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2014 0:34:50 GMT -5
given the context of these verses:
Mat 13:55 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas? Mat 13:56 And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?
i'd say he had 4 brothers and at least 2 sisters...
and she couldn't have been a perpetual virgin becuase of this verse:
Mat 1:25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2014 0:37:05 GMT -5
Wally, yes. The context here is these offended people were speaking of Jesus' family. He wasn't the son of God, he was the son of Joseph and Mary, and no different than James, Jose et al.
And that's how it is - when people bring the Gospel there will always try to define it in human terms and thus diminish its impact.
|
|
|
Post by StAnne on Apr 14, 2014 1:06:39 GMT -5
given the context of these verses: Mat 13:55 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas? Mat 13:56 And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things? i'd say he had 4 brothers and at least 2 sisters... Sisters ... Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible And his sisters,.... Whose names, according to Epiphanius (b), were Mary and Salome; whom he supposes were the daughters of Joseph, by a former wife; but rather of Alphaeus or Cleophas, biblehub.com/matthew/13-56.htmJames, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas ... homepages.paradise.net.nz/mischedj/ct_brothers.htmland ... One problem remains, if Mary the mother of James the less is the same as Mary the sister of the Virgin, how come she is called the wife of Cleophas by St. John, when we know that James the less is the son of Alphaeus?
Conclusion: James, Joses, Judas and Simon were maternal cousins of the Lord Jesus. They were the children of Mary, the Virgin's younger sister. They were the sons of Alphaeus (or Cleophas in Greek). Two of them, James the less and Judas became Apostles of the Lord Jesus. James became the first bishop of Jerusalem and is mentioned dozens of times in the book of Acts as well as in St. Paul's letters. He wrote the Epistle named after him. His brother Judas, also one of the twelve, wrote another Epistle named after him (The Epistle of Jude). Until his martyrdom shortly before the destruction of Jerusalem (Ad 70), James was known as the "brother of the Lord" because of his kinship to the Lord Jesus (Gal 1:19). He was considered one of the "pillars of the church", together with Peter and John. (Gal 2:9). Although being called the "brother of the Lord", James referred to himself as "James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ." (Jas 1:1). His brother Jude (or Judas), showing similar humility called himself, "Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James." (Jud 1:1). www.stmaryscopticorthodox.ca/content/articles/basics/jesus_brothers.pdf
|
|
|
Post by faune on Apr 14, 2014 7:38:04 GMT -5
Quote - "I'm surprised you know so much detail about Jesus family. I would like to know where I can read the details." Wha... it's in your bible! King James New King James International New International Revised New English etc. ... all say the same, sort of.
King David said Jesus would have brothers and sisters (who wouldn't believe, incidentally) Isaiah said Jesus would be born of a virgin, and a "root out of dry ground.") Jacob said Jesus would come from his own son, Judah. Micah said he would come from Bethlehem. Hosea said Jesus would be called out of Egypt. Jeremiah said evil men would kill all the infants of Bethlehem. Isaiah said he would grow in Nazareth.
... and Matthew, Mark, Luke and John filled in the details.
Bert ~ I enjoyed what you presented above, but Dubious and I wonder about the first entry here? Can you provide a biblical reference to support it? Are you referring to the passages from John 7:5 and John 12:37? Also, I believe it says in the epistle of James that even his half-brother, James, didn't believe in Jesus as the Messiah until after he was crucified? However, I don't recall any references in the O.T. to this fact. If there is any, please provide us with a chapter and verse from an O.T. book?
www.jewsforjesus.org/answers/jesus/proofessay
www.lifeofchristonline.com/lesson_6.html
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2014 7:42:43 GMT -5
Psalm 69, "I am a foreigner to my own family, a stranger to my own mother’s children;"
|
|
|
Post by faune on Apr 14, 2014 8:26:10 GMT -5
StAnne ~ Thank you for supplying these passages for references to Jesus' brothers with the explanation. Also, I appreciated you bringing to light those passages in Psalm 69:8 and Matthew 13:56 that Bert probably was referring to earlier in his post along with the verses referring to James, who was Jesus' half brother. It's fascinating that James did not believe in Him until after the resurrection, but them became a leader in the Church and died a martyr's death in support of Jesus being the promised Messiah.
I learned something new every day on this Board. Thanks to your diligent search and coming up with the answers requested!
biblehub.com/psalms/69-8.htm (Psalm 69:8)
biblehub.com/matthew/13-56.htm (Matthew 13:56)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2014 8:36:03 GMT -5
The background premise to all this talk about whether Jesus had brothers and sisters has nothing to do with his family, and all to do with Marian worship - the "Queen of Heaven."
Similar to the Queen of Heaven Jeremiah had to contend with. THIS "Queen of Heaven" is sinless - violating what is written throughout scripture about all having sinned. And this "Queen of heaven" is co-redeemer with Christ, violating the scripture which said there is ONE mediator between God and man.
So what starts out innocently in working out whether the bible was right to say Jesus had brothers and sisters, and whether the bible was right when Mary didn't know her husband UNTIL she had Jesus --- turns into this monster known as "Queen of Heaven."
|
|
|
Post by slowtosee on Apr 14, 2014 8:36:45 GMT -5
Wally wrote- and she couldn't have been a perpetual virgin becuase of this verse:
Mat 1:25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.
Never noticed that before. Thanks, Wally Alvin
|
|
|
Post by faune on Apr 14, 2014 8:41:19 GMT -5
Wally wrote- and she couldn't have been a perpetual virgin becuase of this verse: Mat 1:25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS. Never noticed that before. Thanks, Wally Alvin Slowtosee ~ StAnne will have to unravel that mystery for you, I believe, as I dare not touch it myself?
|
|
|
Post by faune on Apr 14, 2014 8:44:36 GMT -5
The background premise to all this talk about whether Jesus had brothers and sisters has nothing to do with his family, and all to do with Marian worship - the "Queen of Heaven." Bert ~ Can you please explain yourself here? I'm a bit confused as to how the reference to Jesus' other siblings is connected with veneration of Mary within the Roman Catholic Church? That came much later with the RCC and not during the first century, I would suspect?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2014 8:47:05 GMT -5
Sorry, you hit the quote button too early!!!!
|
|
|
Post by faune on Apr 14, 2014 8:57:29 GMT -5
I enjoyed this commentary connected to the referenced verse of Matthew 13:56 earlier in this thread. Those references to Jesus having earthly siblings have always confused me over the years. However, after reading this commentary below, I still remain somewhat still confused? But, if I have to choose here, I probably would go with the first scenario due to the reasons given. Since the Holy Spirit and not Joseph is accredited with being Jesus' father, than these other brothers and sisters would only have Mary, his mother in common and would be considered "half-sisters and half-brothers." However, to the people of that day, they viewed them as being Jesus' full siblings.
biblehub.com/matthew/13-56.htm
|
|
|
Post by StAnne on Apr 14, 2014 10:30:49 GMT -5
Mat 1:25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS. Wally wrote- and she couldn't have been a perpetual virgin becuase of this verse: Mat 1:25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS. Never noticed that before. Thanks, Wally Alvin Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant. She was set apart for God - she carried the actual presence of God in her womb - for God's plan for her; and to give human flesh to God the Son. Our Redeemer, Lord and Savior, and King. The inspired authors' use of the word "until" sometimes implied one thing: up to that particular point in time.
It does not assume that a change occurred subsequently.
It's because, as with all Marian doctrines/dogmas, its significance has to do with our understanding of Christ.
Every Marian doctrine/dogma re-affirms and enhances our understanding of Jesus. It's always all about Him!
Mary’s Perpetual Virginity emphasizes the divinity of Jesus by telling us how fitting it was that the womb that housed God Incarnate was set apart just for that purpose!
more at the link ... threeminuteapologetics.blogspot.com/2011/01/why-do-catholics-believe-mary-was.html More about untilwww.philvaz.com/apologetics/num27.htm
|
|
|
Post by slowtosee on Apr 14, 2014 11:18:37 GMT -5
Hmmmm. There is no passage of scripture that says Mary was a perpetual virgin. In Luke 1:34 , Mary asks the angel " how can this be, since I do not know a man", and then it speaks about later , that Joseph "knew" her after Jesus was born. Genesis speaks several times about Adam "knew Eve" and she conceived Cain, then again "knew her" and bore Seth, and later, Cain "knew his wife and she bore Enoch" . Obviously, the offspring of Adam after she "knew Eve" were not considered "cousins" or whatever.....? In Matthew 12 , someone speaking to Jesus, said 'behold your mother and your brothers are standing outside........" Of course, none of my business whether someone is a virgin or not, but most "betrothed" people are not. Why is it "important" to anyone to somehow suggest Mary remained a virgin ? Do people actually view sex between husband and wife as sinful or not approved by God or? Alvin
|
|
|
Post by StAnne on Apr 14, 2014 11:26:53 GMT -5
Hmmmm. There is no passage of scripture that says Mary was a perpetual virgin. In Luke 1:34 , Mary asks the angel " how can this be, since I do not know a man", and then it speaks about later , that Joseph "knew" her after Jesus was born. Genesis speaks several times about Adam "knew Eve" and she conceived Cain, then again "knew her" and bore Seth, and later, Cain "knew his wife and she bore Enoch" . Obviously, the offspring of Adam after she "knew Eve" were not considered "cousins" or whatever.....? In Matthew 12 , someone speaking to Jesus, said 'behold your mother and your brothers are standing outside........" Of course, none of my business whether someone is a virgin or not, but most "betrothed" people are not. Why is it "important" to anyone to somehow suggest Mary remained a virgin ? Do people actually view sex between husband and wife as sinful or not approved by God or? Alvin and then it speaks about later , that Joseph "knew" her after Jesus was bornNo. It does not say that Joseph 'knew' her after Jesus was born. It says ' And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son' Which is to ensure that we know that Jesus was not conceived by natural man - it only speaks to what did NOT happen. Mary conceived by the will and power of the Holy Spirit - it was not fitting that man should go where God's presence had been. Just as no man was to touch the Ark of the Covenant because of the Shekinah Glory - God's presence. The use of ' until' ... threeminuteapologetics.blogspot.com/2011/01/why-do-catholics-believe-mary-was.html www.philvaz.com/apologetics/num27.htm
|
|
|
Post by StAnne on Apr 14, 2014 12:10:38 GMT -5
and then it speaks about later , that Joseph "knew" her after Jesus was bornNo. It does not say that Joseph 'knew' her after Jesus was born. It says ' And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son' Which is to ensure that we know that Jesus was not conceived by natural man - it only speaks to what did NOT happen. Mary conceived by the will and power of the Holy Spirit - it was not fitting that man should go where God's presence had been. Just as no man was to touch the Ark of the Covenant because of the Shekinah Glory - God's presence. The use of ' until' ... threeminuteapologetics.blogspot.com/2011/01/why-do-catholics-believe-mary-was.html www.philvaz.com/apologetics/num27.htm If that was the case, God should have chosen a VIRGIN, who was NOT about to marry to a man! Sexual relationship between a man and a woman is beautiful. Why? would God NOT allow Joseph to have sex with his wife? God should have chosen a Virgin NOT about to marry a man. This way the Virgin could STAY perpetual Virgin all the days of her life. 'We' are to tell God who He should have chosen? I think not. Jesus needed a legal father; Mary needed a protector, a guardian of her reputation, and to be a foster father to her son. Joseph, a righteous man, fulfilled all of those roles beautifully - for the honor and glory of God.
|
|
|
Post by StAnne on Apr 14, 2014 12:51:46 GMT -5
'We' are to tell God who He should have chosen? I think not. Jesus needed a legal father; Mary needed a protector, a guardian of her reputation, and to be a foster father to her son. Joseph, a righteous man, fulfilled all of those roles beautifully - for the honor and glory of God. That is the point... Perpetual Mary Virgin doesn't make any sense! between a husband and a wife. Even Paul wrote this in I Cor. 7:3-5 The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. The wife does not have authority over her own body but yields it to her husband. In the same way, the husband does not have authority over his own body but yields it to his wife. Do not deprive each other except perhaps by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. You are expressing what should happen in most natural marriages. Mary and Joseph were under the direct guidance and direction of angels sent from God. No other has conceived by the overshadowing of the Holy Spirit - so the natural rules don't apply here. In order to understand this, one would need to understand being consecrated or 'set apart' for God as Joseph would have fully known. For God alone. Hippolytus (c. a.d. 170–c. a.d. 236): “At that time, the Savior coming from the Virgin, the Ark, brought forth His own body into the world from that Ark, which was gilded with pure gold within by the Word, and without by the Holy Ghost; so that the truth was shown forth, and the Ark was manifested....And the Savior came into the world bearing the incorruptible Ark, that is to say His own body” [Dan .vi].
|
|
|
Post by StAnne on Apr 14, 2014 12:56:06 GMT -5
Rev 11:19ff Then God’s temple in heaven was opened, and within his temple was seen the ark of his covenant. ...
Note that the Ark is seen. It has been found! John then seems to say nothing more of it. Or does he? He goes on to describe a beautiful woman who gives birth to a child who can be non other than Jesus. ...
St. Luke presents the tradition that Mary is the Ark of the Covenant by presenting a series of parallelisms. In other words he takes what was said of the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament and re-presents it but as applied to Mary. Observe the two texts in parallel columns below: (Note especially the bold texts)...
blog.adw.org/2009/03/mary-the-ark-of-the-new-covenant/
|
|