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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2014 15:51:39 GMT -5
Does spiritual bullying occur? How could it be stopped or exposed? Is this problem going to continue until the Lord returns?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2014 15:55:44 GMT -5
i've not seen it but i've only been in a few states and not all 50...nor world wide
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2014 16:18:14 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2014 16:59:56 GMT -5
i've not seen it but i've only been in a few states and not all 50...nor world wide It's unlikely that you will experience it yourself. Anyone with the strength of character to post on here regularly isn't going to get bullied around. Bullies pick on those whom they consider weaker than themselves.
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Post by whyisitso on Apr 9, 2014 17:28:23 GMT -5
When I was about 18 my best friends mum was told by a lady from my meeting that she was 'worried about me because I was repeating myself in prayer' Of course that was helpful!! Then when I was about 23 the elder said to me, in a room full of people (at a 'sing') that I 'ummed and aaared too much in my testimony' - 'you listen next time she speaks' he said!! I don't think the word bully was thrown around at the time as it wasn't a word used that much but looking back on it I would say it was. Both of these people had no care or concern for me, it was just nasty and vindictive and I'm sure to try and put me in my place. I'm not sure if this would be classed as 'spiritual bullying' but it was certainly bullying.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2014 7:48:31 GMT -5
Here is a reasonable definition of spiritual bullying:
A spiritual bully is someone that browbeats, intimidates, or pushes their spiritual weight around. A spiritual bully is one that feels superior and better than others.
If one knows more or thinks they know more than others in a spiritual sense or have some spiritual responsibility then they have to be careful on how this power is used.
If they make others uncomfortable by being overly critical of what others do or are able to do then one is a spiritual bully.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2014 7:59:24 GMT -5
Some spiritual bullying is subtle, some not so subtle.
An example of subtle bullying is to criticize someone in a meeting or a sermon without mentioning the name. That way the bully can deny that he/she was bullying the person.
I know of a case of a worker who bullied someone by excommunication. The worker told me directly that the idea was to withdraw love and the circle of friends from this person in order to force them to submit to the dictates of the worker. By losing the fellowship, the person was supposed to miss the friends and workers so much that they would do anything to get back in. That is pure bully tactics. In that particular case, it completely backfired as the person not only had no interest in ever coming back, was also instrumental in convincing others to leave the meetings too.
There was a time when bullying was actually considered a wise and virtuous activity. That is, it was once believed that the "spirit had to be broken". So parents bullied their kids into submission and older worker companions bullied their newbie workers into submission. They actually figured that was the right thing to do. It messed up a lot of lives though and is not a mainstream practice anymore from what I can see.
Nothing good ever comes out of bullying.
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Post by ellie on Apr 10, 2014 8:35:38 GMT -5
Does spiritual bullying occur? How could it be stopped or exposed? Is this problem going to continue until the Lord returns? There is still an undercurrent of bullying with regards to the role of women among the F&W. Mainly it comes from the sister workers and sometimes the older women. Many seem to have this fixation that women should be cooking up roast dinners rather than be out working. Little do they realise that for some (myself included) working contributes to the marriage in a far more practical way than cooking roast dinners could. So there's these little comments and questions with underlying hints. How many days/hours are you working? Strange questions re looking after (aka mothering) husbands. Fortunately my other half refuted the last direct hint I received from a sister worker. This was in front of the meeting crowd. Sometimes it honestly feels like I need to come prepared with a memorised list of rebuttals around some of the older sister workers. As for stopping the bullying whether spiritual or otherwise most sensible people stop once their argument or comments are refuted once. (For me it's been a different sister worker every time making the silly comments)
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2014 9:36:31 GMT -5
Does spiritual bullying occur? How could it be stopped or exposed? Is this problem going to continue until the Lord returns? There is still an undercurrent of bullying with regards to the role of women among the F&W. Mainly it comes from the sister workers and sometimes the older women. Many seem to have this fixation that women should be cooking up roast dinners rather than be out working. Little do they realise that for some (myself included) working contributes to the marriage in a far more practical way than cooking roast dinners could. So there's these little comments and questions with underlying hints. How many days/hours are you working? Strange questions re looking after (aka mothering) husbands. Fortunately my other half refuted the last direct hint I received from a sister worker. This was in front of the meeting crowd. Sometimes it honestly feels like I need to come prepared with a memorised list of rebuttals around some of the older sister workers. As for stopping the bullying whether spiritual or otherwise most sensible people stop once their argument or comments are refuted once. (For me it's been a different sister worker every time making the silly comments) It looks like someone needs to inform those busybodies that husbands are neither babies nor helpless. Well, most of them anyway!
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Post by rational on Apr 10, 2014 9:50:44 GMT -5
if you have not seen it, you are either a bulky, it blinded by the situation. Do you think people of size have a difficult time in seeing what is going around them? Would that be the form right next to cleanliness? In this case is Godliness good or bad form?
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Post by rational on Apr 10, 2014 9:55:51 GMT -5
There is still an undercurrent of bullying with regards to the role of women among the F&W. Mainly it comes from the sister workers and sometimes the older women. Many seem to have this fixation that women should be cooking up roast dinners rather than be out working. Little do they realise that for some (myself included) working contributes to the marriage in a far more practical way than cooking roast dinners could. So there's these little comments and questions with underlying hints. How many days/hours are you working? Strange questions re looking after (aka mothering) husbands. Fortunately my other half refuted the last direct hint I received from a sister worker. This was in front of the meeting crowd. Sometimes it honestly feels like I need to come prepared with a memorised list of rebuttals around some of the older sister workers. As for stopping the bullying whether spiritual or otherwise most sensible people stop once their argument or comments are refuted once. (For me it's been a different sister worker every time making the silly comments) This is probably a really stupid question but why do you put up with this? Truthfulness starts with the rank and file. If everyone said "No" and didn't engage when asked about matters considered personal there would be little to talk about.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2014 12:55:56 GMT -5
There is still an undercurrent of bullying with regards to the role of women among the F&W. Mainly it comes from the sister workers and sometimes the older women. Many seem to have this fixation that women should be cooking up roast dinners rather than be out working. Little do they realise that for some (myself included) working contributes to the marriage in a far more practical way than cooking roast dinners could. So there's these little comments and questions with underlying hints. How many days/hours are you working? Strange questions re looking after (aka mothering) husbands. Fortunately my other half refuted the last direct hint I received from a sister worker. This was in front of the meeting crowd. Sometimes it honestly feels like I need to come prepared with a memorised list of rebuttals around some of the older sister workers. As for stopping the bullying whether spiritual or otherwise most sensible people stop once their argument or comments are refuted once. (For me it's been a different sister worker every time making the silly comments) This is probably a really stupid question but why do you put up with this? Truthfulness starts with the rank and file. If everyone said "No" and didn't engage when asked about matters considered personal there would be little to talk about. I expect that is precisely why spiritual bullying has been reduced considerably among the F&Ws. People are far less likely to stand for it than a few decades ago.
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Post by Mary on Apr 10, 2014 17:43:57 GMT -5
Here is a reasonable definition of spiritual bullying: A spiritual bully is someone that browbeats, intimidates, or pushes their spiritual weight around. A spiritual bully is one that feels superior and better than others.
If one knows more or thinks they know more than others in a spiritual sense or have some spiritual responsibility then they have to be careful on how this power is used.
If they make others uncomfortable by being overly critical of what others do or are able to do then one is a spiritual bully.Leave off the word spiritual and you have a bully.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2014 17:54:40 GMT -5
Here is a reasonable definition of spiritual bullying: A spiritual bully is someone that browbeats, intimidates, or pushes their spiritual weight around. A spiritual bully is one that feels superior and better than others.
If one knows more or thinks they know more than others in a spiritual sense or have some spiritual responsibility then they have to be careful on how this power is used.
If they make others uncomfortable by being overly critical of what others do or are able to do then one is a spiritual bully.Leave off the word spiritual and you have a bully. Definitely. A spiritual bully is simply one type of bully who uses spirituality to bully people.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2014 18:31:06 GMT -5
Certain spiritual bullies like to try you out. When you first move to their meetings, they won't to see how far they can push you. They may think they are helping you develop spiritually. I have heard workers berate their companions for minor reasons. One brother worker nicknamed his companion "COLLEGE BOY" resentful of the younger companion's education. I heard about a brother worker in Wyoming (1980s) who would leave his companion at a home and the folks of the home would transport the younger worker to the next home-at the next home the older brother would scold younger brother as if it was the younger one's fault. Read accounts of Tom Shroeder and Charles Mattison.
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Post by faune on Apr 10, 2014 18:51:55 GMT -5
Does spiritual bullying occur? How could it be stopped or exposed? Is this problem going to continue until the Lord returns? There is still an undercurrent of bullying with regards to the role of women among the F&W. Mainly it comes from the sister workers and sometimes the older women. Many seem to have this fixation that women should be cooking up roast dinners rather than be out working. Little do they realise that for some (myself included) working contributes to the marriage in a far more practical way than cooking roast dinners could. So there's these little comments and questions with underlying hints. How many days/hours are you working? Strange questions re looking after (aka mothering) husbands. Fortunately my other half refuted the last direct hint I received from a sister worker. This was in front of the meeting crowd. Sometimes it honestly feels like I need to come prepared with a memorised list of rebuttals around some of the older sister workers. As for stopping the bullying whether spiritual or otherwise most sensible people stop once their argument or comments are refuted once. (For me it's been a different sister worker every time making the silly comments) Ellie ~ In the case of older sister workers doing this bullying, my guess is that their younger companions get far worse treatment due to the close proximity they must keep with their companions. Perhaps that's a good reason why some younger workers get burned out early on the work and leave not only the work but the 2x2 fellowship as well?
There was a time in my life when I had to return to work out of necessity due to my husband's job disappearing within a severe economic recession back in 1981. He had to go back to school for 3-1/2 years to re-train in another field and I returned to work with three small children ~ 4 years, 2 years, and a baby of 8 months. It wasn't what I would have chosen for myself, but it was a necessity to survive in that economy back in time. Regardless of the circumstances, the workers and friends really "raked us over the coals" for that decision and my husband ended up leaving the 2x2's shortly afterwards with 10 years invested in the fellowship. I stayed around for another 14 years, but got the "cold shoulder" treatment for many of those years due to a divided home. When I finally left the fellowship out of total burn-out, after one Sunday morning service without giving notice to anybody, I was never even contacted afterwards to see if I was still in the land of the living or why I wasn't in meeting.
The friends and workers did a great job of convincing me by their lack of concern, through their silent actions, that they really didn't care about our family after all. So, when I moved on with my life and eventually found a new church home a few years down the road, I never regretted my choice in leaving the F&W's ~ in fact, I wish I had done it a whole lot sooner!
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Post by snow on Apr 10, 2014 21:27:55 GMT -5
Isn't is spiritual bullying any time some one speaks about their way being the only true way when there are so many ways out there? Isn't it spiritual bullying when Christians tell non Christians they are going to hell if they don't give their life to Jesus? Isn't it bullying when one religious group condemns another group to their particular version of hell? Well you get the idea. Evangelical Christians that think it's their God given right and duty to tell people how to live their lives don't have any choice but to be spiritual bullies imo.
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Post by SharonArnold on Apr 10, 2014 21:34:31 GMT -5
Isn't is spiritual bullying any time some one speaks about their way being the only true way when there are so many ways out there? Isn't it spiritual bullying when Christians tell non Christians they are going to hell if they don't give their life to Jesus? Isn't it bullying when one religious group condemns another group to their particular version of hell? Well you get the idea. Evangelical Christians that think it's their God given right and duty to tell people how to live their lives don't have any choice but to be spiritual bullies imo. Yep. Really good point.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2014 21:37:03 GMT -5
Seems like Jesus was the ultimate rain-on-your-parade spiritual bully.
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Post by SharonArnold on Apr 10, 2014 21:40:25 GMT -5
Seems like Jesus was the ultimate rain-on-your-parade spiritual bully. Ohhh....Bert. You need to go and have a real close look at "What did Jesus really say? And what did Jesus really mean?"
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Post by snow on Apr 10, 2014 23:00:16 GMT -5
Seems like Jesus was the ultimate rain-on-your-parade spiritual bully. Really?
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 10, 2014 23:02:04 GMT -5
i've not seen it but i've only been in a few states and not all 50...nor world wide Spiritual bullying is rampant.
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 10, 2014 23:03:59 GMT -5
When I was about 18 my best friends mum was told by a lady from my meeting that she was 'worried about me because I was repeating myself in prayer' Of course that was helpful!! Then when I was about 23 the elder said to me, in a room full of people (at a 'sing') that I 'ummed and aaared too much in my testimony' - 'you listen next time she speaks' he said!! I don't think the word bully was thrown around at the time as it wasn't a word used that much but looking back on it I would say it was. Both of these people had no care or concern for me, it was just nasty and vindictive and I'm sure to try and put me in my place. I'm not sure if this would be classed as 'spiritual bullying' but it was certainly bullying. The bullies normally convince people they are doing it for their own good, so it's not really bullying. But it is still bullying.
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 10, 2014 23:11:29 GMT -5
Spiritual bullying is when someone "erects" an impediment to your spiritual growth. Otherwise, it's all just plain bullying.
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Post by whyisitso on Apr 10, 2014 23:27:12 GMT -5
When I was about 18 my best friends mum was told by a lady from my meeting that she was 'worried about me because I was repeating myself in prayer' Of course that was helpful!! Then when I was about 23 the elder said to me, in a room full of people (at a 'sing') that I 'ummed and aaared too much in my testimony' - 'you listen next time she speaks' he said!! I don't think the word bully was thrown around at the time as it wasn't a word used that much but looking back on it I would say it was. Both of these people had no care or concern for me, it was just nasty and vindictive and I'm sure to try and put me in my place. I'm not sure if this would be classed as 'spiritual bullying' but it was certainly bullying. The bullies normally convince people they are doing it for their own good, so it's not really bullying. But it is still bullying. I'd have to say that having my prayer criticized was damaging to how I spoke as it made me so self conscious when praying. I felt like I was being judged on everything that came out of my mouth. Then several years later being told I ummmed & arrred to much.... Well I didn't speak in meeting for 6 mths after that I was so mortified. Even now 15 odd yrs later when I speak in meetings at work I freeze! I wasn't like that before. Anyway, I'm certain a lot worse has been said to people. That was just my 2 cents worth
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 10, 2014 23:48:04 GMT -5
The bullies normally convince people they are doing it for their own good, so it's not really bullying. But it is still bullying. I'd have to say that having my prayer criticized was damaging to how I spoke as it made me so self conscious when praying. I felt like I was being judged on everything that came out of my mouth. Then several years later being told I ummmed & arrred to much.... Well I didn't speak in meeting for 6 mths after that I was so mortified. Even now 15 odd yrs later when I speak in meetings at work I freeze! I wasn't like that before. Anyway, I'm certain a lot worse has been said to people. That was just my 2 cents worth I've been called on the carpet by workers and meeting elder because I apparently was praying for people who were kicked out of meetings. You'd think they'd be ashamed of themselves -- they should have been praying for them themselves. The worst I ever witnessed in a meeting was when the sister worker interrupted her sermon, looked at my wife, and said "Do you have something to say to me?" No one in the room had a clue what she was talking about, including my wife. When she saw that my wife didn't get it, she repeated herself, "Do you have something to say to me?" My wife just sat totally stunned. Then the worker fiddled with her Bible, lamented that she had lost her train of thought, and then carried on. My wife has not been in a meeting since. By the way, my wife is very deaf, and sometimes she whispers quietly to herself. But on that occasion no one, even the man sitting beside her, said they had not even heard her whispering.
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Post by whyisitso on Apr 10, 2014 23:52:24 GMT -5
I'd have to say that having my prayer criticized was damaging to how I spoke as it made me so self conscious when praying. I felt like I was being judged on everything that came out of my mouth. Then several years later being told I ummmed & arrred to much.... Well I didn't speak in meeting for 6 mths after that I was so mortified. Even now 15 odd yrs later when I speak in meetings at work I freeze! I wasn't like that before. Anyway, I'm certain a lot worse has been said to people. That was just my 2 cents worth I've been called on the carpet by workers and meeting elder because I apparently was praying for people who were kicked out of meetings. You'd think they'd be ashamed of themselves -- they should have been praying for them themselves. The worst I ever witnessed in a meeting was when the sister worker interrupted her sermon, looked at my wife, and said "Do you have something to say to me?" No one in the room had a clue what she was talking about, including my wife. When she saw that my wife didn't get it, she repeated herself, "Do you have something to say to me?" My wife just sat totally stunned. Then the worker fiddled with her Bible, lamented that she had lost her train of thought, and then carried on. My wife has not been in a meeting since. By the way, my wife is very deaf, and sometimes she whispers quietly to herself. But on that occasion no one, even the man sitting beside her, said they had not even heard her whispering. Your poor wife. No wonder why she hasn't been back!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2014 0:15:37 GMT -5
It's amazing, these stories you read. You are left wondering what the context is, what is the other side of the account, or for that matter - if it's even true at all.
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