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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2014 14:55:10 GMT -5
thats what revisionist would have you think... Come on, Wally... What is your background in revisionist interpretations of the OT, say nothing about the actual "revisions" of OT scriptures? I expect you know as much about that as I know about building a nuclear power plant. i know enough about the bible and history to see a revisionist a mile away...
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 12, 2014 15:22:06 GMT -5
Come on, Wally... What is your background in revisionist interpretations of the OT, say nothing about the actual "revisions" of OT scriptures? I expect you know as much about that as I know about building a nuclear power plant. i know enough about the bible and history to see a revisionist a mile away... I see rainbows 2 miles away.
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Post by rational on Jul 12, 2014 16:46:12 GMT -5
i know enough about the bible and history to see a revisionist a mile away... I see rainbows 2 miles away. :) That would be an interesting measurement to explain! I am guessing they are much closer than you think.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jul 12, 2014 17:48:04 GMT -5
Oh my, bert, I have subscribed to the Scientific American for decades! I didn't realize that it had anything to do with "philosophy!" Are you sure that your view is because that the Scientific America is telling you a truth about ecology you just want to accept?
As for religion and capitalism, -can you give any articles that even discuss those subjects? No examples come to mind. But America suspiciously gets a mention in many eco and anti-nuclear issues.I don't mind eco issues, but when they appear ALL THE TIME in a magazine I begin to believe that magazine must be an eco magazine - not a science one. Review Sciam.com against nextbigfuture.com/today's NextBestFuture has this " France and Sweden show you can use more energy and be richer if you use hydro and nuclear power While Germany and USA use coal and natural gas and tell others to use less." You won't get that in Scientific America ---- anymore. I didn't figure there would be any examples!
Do you think that all those articles on eco and anti-nuclear issues might be because those issues are very important sciences issues of the day?
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Post by dmmichgood on Jul 12, 2014 17:55:47 GMT -5
Come on, Wally... What is your background in revisionist interpretations of the OT, say nothing about the actual "revisions" of OT scriptures? I expect you know as much about that as I know about building a nuclear power plant. i know enough about the bible and history to see a revisionist a mile away... Wally, good for you! Near sighted, maybe..but what the heck? Can't have everything can we?
Now would you give us even one example a "revision" of the OT?
I am depending on you to improve my vision.
My own eyesight has always been below par, I've had to wear glasses since I was four years old.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2014 18:24:13 GMT -5
i know enough about the bible and history to see a revisionist a mile away... Wally, good for you! Near sighted, maybe..but what the heck? Can't have everything can we?
Now would you give us even one example a "revision" of the OT?
I am depending on you to improve my vision.
My own eyesight has always been below par, I've had to wear glasses since I was four years old.
sure bobs saying that joshua DIDN'T write the book of joshua...he doesn't know that hes just reciting from a book he read published in the last 100 years or so...
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Post by matisse on Jul 12, 2014 18:24:36 GMT -5
Come on, Wally... What is your background in revisionist interpretations of the OT, say nothing about the actual "revisions" of OT scriptures? I expect you know as much about that as I know about building a nuclear power plant. i know enough about the bible and history to see a revisionist a mile away... Isn't Christianity itself a major revision?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2014 18:27:16 GMT -5
i know enough about the bible and history to see a revisionist a mile away... Isn't Christianity itself a major revision? not really if you read it carefully you'll see it all points to the coming Christ and sanctions it...
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Post by matisse on Jul 12, 2014 18:41:28 GMT -5
Isn't Christianity itself a major revision? not really if you read it carefully you'll see it all points to the coming Christ and sanctions it... Even if you believe it was foretold and fully sanctioned the New Testament represents a major re-write/revision. There are many policy changes, including the apparant inclusion of folks like you. (I am assuming you are not of Jewish descent.)
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2014 18:51:38 GMT -5
not really if you read it carefully you'll see it all points to the coming Christ and sanctions it... Even if you believe it was foretold and fully sanctioned the New Testament represents a major re-write/revision. There are many policy changes, including the apparant inclusion of folks like you. (I am assuming you are not of Jewish descent.) i suppose you could look at it that way but i don't...
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 12, 2014 18:52:52 GMT -5
I see rainbows 2 miles away. That would be an interesting measurement to explain! I am guessing they are much closer than you think. You could spiritualize that one Sunday morning.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 12, 2014 18:54:12 GMT -5
We must assume that the Torah was written or authorized by the Jewish Priesthood. Of course. That is why it has been revised over time.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 12, 2014 18:58:32 GMT -5
Wally, good for you! Near sighted, maybe..but what the heck? Can't have everything can we?
Now would you give us even one example a "revision" of the OT?
I am depending on you to improve my vision.
My own eyesight has always been below par, I've had to wear glasses since I was four years old.
sure bobs saying that joshua DIDN'T write the book of joshua...he doesn't know that hes just reciting from a book he read published in the last 100 years or so... Actually, that particular tidbit of informnation I did not read -- I was told that, and then discovered read from other sources how they know it was revised.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jul 12, 2014 18:59:17 GMT -5
Wally, good for you! Near sighted, maybe..but what the heck? Can't have everything can we?
Now would you give us even one example a "revision" of the OT?
I am depending on you to improve my vision.
My own eyesight has always been below par, I've had to wear glasses since I was four years old.
sure bobs saying that joshua DIDN'T write the book of joshua...he doesn't know that hes just reciting from a book he read published in the last 100 years or so... Thank you wally, perhaps you can explain WHO from your own Biblical research, actually did write the book of Joshua?
from wiki: "The Book of Joshua or Book of Jehoshua (Hebrew: ספר יהושע Sefer Yĕhôshúa) is the sixth book in the Hebrew Bible and the Christian Old Testament. Its 24 chapters tell of the entry of the Israelites into Canaan, their conquest and division of the land under the leadership of Joshua, and of serving God in the land.[1] Joshua forms part of the biblical account of the emergence of Israel, which begins with the exodus of the Israelites from slavery in Egypt, continues with the book of Joshua, and culminates in the Book of Judges with the conquest and settlement of the land.[2] The book is in two roughly equal parts. The first part depicts the campaigns of the Israelites in central, southern and northern Canaan, as well as the destruction of their enemies. The second part details the division of the conquered land among the twelve tribes. The two parts are framed by set-piece speeches by God and Joshua commanding the conquest and at the end warning of the need for faithful observance of the Law (torah) revealed to Moses.[3]
Almost all scholars agree that the book of Joshua holds little historical value for early Israel and most likely reflects a much later period.[4] Rather than being written as history, the Deuteronomistic history – Deuteronomy, Joshua, Judges, Samuel and Kings – was intended to illustrate a theological scheme in which Israel and her leaders are judged by their obedience to the teachings and laws (the covenant) set down in the book of Deuteronomy.[5]
Although tradition holds that the book was written by Joshua, it is probable that it was written by multiple editors and authors far removed from the times it depicts.[6] The earliest parts of the book are possibly chapters 2–11, the story of the conquest; these chapters were later incorporated into an early form of Joshua written late in the reign of king Josiah (reigned 640–609 BCE), but the book was not completed until after the fall of Jerusalem to the Babylonians in 586, and possibly not until after the return from the Babylonian exile in 539.
[6] refers to Jerome F. D. Creach I have the place where you can reach Dr. Creach.
I'm sure that that he would be delighted to hear your own Biblical research and how you arrived at your conclusions as to who actually did write the book of Joshua.
Jerome F. D. Creach
Robert C. Holland Professor of Old Testament Year Started at PTS: 2000
Contact Info
jcreach@pts.edu 412-924-1428 Education
Ph.D., Union Theological Seminary in Virginia / Bible (Old Testament), 1994 Th.M., Southern Baptist Theological Seminary / Systematic Theology, 1989 M.Div., Southern Baptist Theological Seminary / Systematic Theology, 1987 B.A., Gardner-Webb University Year / Religion, 1984
The Rev. Dr. Jerome Creach is the Robert C. Holland Professor of Old Testament. Before joining the faculty of Pittsburgh Seminary in 2000, he taught at Barton College (1994-2000), the College of William & Mary (1993-94), Randolph-Macon College (1993), and the Baptist Theological Seminary at Richmond (1992-93). Creach earned his doctorate at Union Theological Seminary in Virginia (now Union Presbyterian Seminary). Prior to his study at Union, he earned his M.Div. and Th.M. (in systematic theology) at the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. Creach is interested in Old Testament theology and the appropriation of the Bible to the life of the Church. Psalms and Prophets are his primary areas of research. He has published five books and numerous articles and reviews in journals for biblical studies. Creach’s publications include
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 12, 2014 18:59:50 GMT -5
Isn't Christianity itself a major revision? not really if you read it carefully you'll see it all points to the coming Christ and sanctions it... You mean, if you "proof text" is carefully ... it can point to anything you want, including Joseph Smith.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2014 21:49:56 GMT -5
Quote - "I didn't figure there would be any examples! Do you think that all those articles on eco and anti-nuclear issues might be because those issues are very important sciences issues of the day?" They might be "important" but a sole focus upon anything can be turn off to those who are not single- issue people. I don't have examples because the examples I read turned me off in the 1990's. I think the economy is important too, but if I read non-stop economic articles in Scientific America I might stop reading it, particularly if its focus was upon how Capitalism was dooming the planet.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2014 21:55:16 GMT -5
Quote - "You mean, if you "proof text" is carefully ... it can point to anything you want, including Joseph Smith."
One Muslim told me the bible prophesied the coming of Mohammed. Something about a prophet on a camel. That was a tenuous argument - a bit like anything predicting the coming of Joseph Smith. Most books of the Old Testament speak of the coming Messiah. You could go find Ronald McDonald and Hamburglar in scripture, but you would be drawing a long bow.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jul 12, 2014 22:02:02 GMT -5
No examples come to mind. But America suspiciously gets a mention in many eco and anti-nuclear issues. I don't mind eco issues, but when they appear ALL THE TIME in a magazine I begin to believe that magazine must be an eco magazine - not a science one. Review Sciam.com against nextbigfuture.com/today's NextBestFuture has this " France and Sweden show you can use more energy and be richer if you use hydro and nuclear power While Germany and USA use coal and natural gas and tell others to use less." You won't get that in Scientific America ---- anymore. Bert, have you never considered that just maybe you're reading an American magazine, and Americans are not known for recognizing expertise that they have not yet adopted for themselves. Is that the problem, bert? Are you talking about the magazine "America" instead of the magazine, "Scientific American?"
Maybe we are talking about the two different magazines? That would explain a lot.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2014 22:13:58 GMT -5
sure bobs saying that joshua DIDN'T write the book of joshua...he doesn't know that hes just reciting from a book he read published in the last 100 years or so... Thank you wally, perhaps you can explain WHO from your own Biblical research, actually did write the book of Joshua?
from wiki: "The Book of Joshua or Book of Jehoshua (Hebrew: ספר יהושע Sefer Yĕhôshúa) is the sixth book in the Hebrew Bible and the Christian Old Testament. Its 24 chapters tell of the entry of the Israelites into Canaan, their conquest and division of the land under the leadership of Joshua, and of serving God in the land.[1] Joshua forms part of the biblical account of the emergence of Israel, which begins with the exodus of the Israelites from slavery in Egypt, continues with the book of Joshua, and culminates in the Book of Judges with the conquest and settlement of the land.[2] The book is in two roughly equal parts. The first part depicts the campaigns of the Israelites in central, southern and northern Canaan, as well as the destruction of their enemies. The second part details the division of the conquered land among the twelve tribes. The two parts are framed by set-piece speeches by God and Joshua commanding the conquest and at the end warning of the need for faithful observance of the Law (torah) revealed to Moses.[3]
Almost all scholars agree that the book of Joshua holds little historical value for early Israel and most likely reflects a much later period.[4] Rather than being written as history, the Deuteronomistic history – Deuteronomy, Joshua, Judges, Samuel and Kings – was intended to illustrate a theological scheme in which Israel and her leaders are judged by their obedience to the teachings and laws (the covenant) set down in the book of Deuteronomy.[5]
Although tradition holds that the book was written by Joshua, it is probable that it was written by multiple editors and authors far removed from the times it depicts.[6] The earliest parts of the book are possibly chapters 2–11, the story of the conquest; these chapters were later incorporated into an early form of Joshua written late in the reign of king Josiah (reigned 640–609 BCE), but the book was not completed until after the fall of Jerusalem to the Babylonians in 586, and possibly not until after the return from the Babylonian exile in 539.
[6] refers to Jerome F. D. Creach I have the place where you can reach Dr. Creach.
I'm sure that that he would be delighted to hear your own Biblical research and how you arrived at your conclusions as to who actually did write the book of Joshua.
Jerome F. D. Creach
Robert C. Holland Professor of Old Testament Year Started at PTS: 2000
Contact Info
jcreach@pts.edu 412-924-1428 Education
Ph.D., Union Theological Seminary in Virginia / Bible (Old Testament), 1994 Th.M., Southern Baptist Theological Seminary / Systematic Theology, 1989 M.Div., Southern Baptist Theological Seminary / Systematic Theology, 1987 B.A., Gardner-Webb University Year / Religion, 1984
The Rev. Dr. Jerome Creach is the Robert C. Holland Professor of Old Testament. Before joining the faculty of Pittsburgh Seminary in 2000, he taught at Barton College (1994-2000), the College of William & Mary (1993-94), Randolph-Macon College (1993), and the Baptist Theological Seminary at Richmond (1992-93). Creach earned his doctorate at Union Theological Seminary in Virginia (now Union Presbyterian Seminary). Prior to his study at Union, he earned his M.Div. and Th.M. (in systematic theology) at the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. Creach is interested in Old Testament theology and the appropriation of the Bible to the life of the Church. Psalms and Prophets are his primary areas of research. He has published five books and numerous articles and reviews in journals for biblical studies. Creach’s publications include
sounds like a revisionist to me..someone who never lived during the times in question and writes a paper or book trying to contradict the bible... i haven't done any research on joshua becuase everything out there was written in the last century and is written and slanted to be contradictory to the bible.....
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 12, 2014 22:34:49 GMT -5
Quote - "You mean, if you "proof text" is carefully ... it can point to anything you want, including Joseph Smith." One Muslim told me the bible prophesied the coming of Mohammed. Something about a prophet on a camel. That was a tenuous argument - a bit like anything predicting the coming of Joseph Smith. Most books of the Old Testament speak of the coming Messiah. You could go find Ronald McDonald and Hamburglar in scripture, but you would be drawing a long bow.Your Muslim friend has every bit as much right to find Muhammad in the OT as any Christian is to find Jesus. Off hand, I would suspect he would have more reason, given that the nature of God in Judaism and Islam are the same -- and the nature of the God of Christianity is different.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 12, 2014 22:45:41 GMT -5
Thank you wally, perhaps you can explain WHO from your own Biblical research, actually did write the book of Joshua?
from wiki: "The Book of Joshua or Book of Jehoshua (Hebrew: ספר יהושע Sefer Yĕhôshúa) is the sixth book in the Hebrew Bible and the Christian Old Testament. Its 24 chapters tell of the entry of the Israelites into Canaan, their conquest and division of the land under the leadership of Joshua, and of serving God in the land.[1] Joshua forms part of the biblical account of the emergence of Israel, which begins with the exodus of the Israelites from slavery in Egypt, continues with the book of Joshua, and culminates in the Book of Judges with the conquest and settlement of the land.[2] The book is in two roughly equal parts. The first part depicts the campaigns of the Israelites in central, southern and northern Canaan, as well as the destruction of their enemies. The second part details the division of the conquered land among the twelve tribes. The two parts are framed by set-piece speeches by God and Joshua commanding the conquest and at the end warning of the need for faithful observance of the Law (torah) revealed to Moses.[3]
Almost all scholars agree that the book of Joshua holds little historical value for early Israel and most likely reflects a much later period.[4] Rather than being written as history, the Deuteronomistic history – Deuteronomy, Joshua, Judges, Samuel and Kings – was intended to illustrate a theological scheme in which Israel and her leaders are judged by their obedience to the teachings and laws (the covenant) set down in the book of Deuteronomy.[5]
Although tradition holds that the book was written by Joshua, it is probable that it was written by multiple editors and authors far removed from the times it depicts.[6] The earliest parts of the book are possibly chapters 2–11, the story of the conquest; these chapters were later incorporated into an early form of Joshua written late in the reign of king Josiah (reigned 640–609 BCE), but the book was not completed until after the fall of Jerusalem to the Babylonians in 586, and possibly not until after the return from the Babylonian exile in 539.
[6] refers to Jerome F. D. Creach I have the place where you can reach Dr. Creach.
I'm sure that that he would be delighted to hear your own Biblical research and how you arrived at your conclusions as to who actually did write the book of Joshua.
Jerome F. D. Creach
Robert C. Holland Professor of Old Testament Year Started at PTS: 2000
Contact Info
jcreach@pts.edu 412-924-1428 Education
Ph.D., Union Theological Seminary in Virginia / Bible (Old Testament), 1994 Th.M., Southern Baptist Theological Seminary / Systematic Theology, 1989 M.Div., Southern Baptist Theological Seminary / Systematic Theology, 1987 B.A., Gardner-Webb University Year / Religion, 1984
The Rev. Dr. Jerome Creach is the Robert C. Holland Professor of Old Testament. Before joining the faculty of Pittsburgh Seminary in 2000, he taught at Barton College (1994-2000), the College of William & Mary (1993-94), Randolph-Macon College (1993), and the Baptist Theological Seminary at Richmond (1992-93). Creach earned his doctorate at Union Theological Seminary in Virginia (now Union Presbyterian Seminary). Prior to his study at Union, he earned his M.Div. and Th.M. (in systematic theology) at the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. Creach is interested in Old Testament theology and the appropriation of the Bible to the life of the Church. Psalms and Prophets are his primary areas of research. He has published five books and numerous articles and reviews in journals for biblical studies. Creach’s publications include
sounds like a revisionist to me..someone who never lived during the times in question and writes a paper or book trying to contradict the bible... i haven't done any research on joshua becuase everything out there was written in the last century and is written and slanted to be contradictory to the bible..... I guess revelation is the easiest way to go, huh?
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Post by snow on Jul 14, 2014 19:47:56 GMT -5
Thank you wally, perhaps you can explain WHO from your own Biblical research, actually did write the book of Joshua?
from wiki: "The Book of Joshua or Book of Jehoshua (Hebrew: ספר יהושע Sefer Yĕhôshúa) is the sixth book in the Hebrew Bible and the Christian Old Testament. Its 24 chapters tell of the entry of the Israelites into Canaan, their conquest and division of the land under the leadership of Joshua, and of serving God in the land.[1] Joshua forms part of the biblical account of the emergence of Israel, which begins with the exodus of the Israelites from slavery in Egypt, continues with the book of Joshua, and culminates in the Book of Judges with the conquest and settlement of the land.[2] The book is in two roughly equal parts. The first part depicts the campaigns of the Israelites in central, southern and northern Canaan, as well as the destruction of their enemies. The second part details the division of the conquered land among the twelve tribes. The two parts are framed by set-piece speeches by God and Joshua commanding the conquest and at the end warning of the need for faithful observance of the Law (torah) revealed to Moses.[3]
Almost all scholars agree that the book of Joshua holds little historical value for early Israel and most likely reflects a much later period.[4] Rather than being written as history, the Deuteronomistic history – Deuteronomy, Joshua, Judges, Samuel and Kings – was intended to illustrate a theological scheme in which Israel and her leaders are judged by their obedience to the teachings and laws (the covenant) set down in the book of Deuteronomy.[5]
Although tradition holds that the book was written by Joshua, it is probable that it was written by multiple editors and authors far removed from the times it depicts.[6] The earliest parts of the book are possibly chapters 2–11, the story of the conquest; these chapters were later incorporated into an early form of Joshua written late in the reign of king Josiah (reigned 640–609 BCE), but the book was not completed until after the fall of Jerusalem to the Babylonians in 586, and possibly not until after the return from the Babylonian exile in 539.
[6] refers to Jerome F. D. Creach I have the place where you can reach Dr. Creach.
I'm sure that that he would be delighted to hear your own Biblical research and how you arrived at your conclusions as to who actually did write the book of Joshua.
Jerome F. D. Creach
Robert C. Holland Professor of Old Testament Year Started at PTS: 2000
Contact Info
jcreach@pts.edu 412-924-1428 Education
Ph.D., Union Theological Seminary in Virginia / Bible (Old Testament), 1994 Th.M., Southern Baptist Theological Seminary / Systematic Theology, 1989 M.Div., Southern Baptist Theological Seminary / Systematic Theology, 1987 B.A., Gardner-Webb University Year / Religion, 1984
The Rev. Dr. Jerome Creach is the Robert C. Holland Professor of Old Testament. Before joining the faculty of Pittsburgh Seminary in 2000, he taught at Barton College (1994-2000), the College of William & Mary (1993-94), Randolph-Macon College (1993), and the Baptist Theological Seminary at Richmond (1992-93). Creach earned his doctorate at Union Theological Seminary in Virginia (now Union Presbyterian Seminary). Prior to his study at Union, he earned his M.Div. and Th.M. (in systematic theology) at the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. Creach is interested in Old Testament theology and the appropriation of the Bible to the life of the Church. Psalms and Prophets are his primary areas of research. He has published five books and numerous articles and reviews in journals for biblical studies. Creach’s publications include
sounds like a revisionist to me..someone who never lived during the times in question and writes a paper or book trying to contradict the bible... i haven't done any research on joshua becuase everything out there was written in the last century and is written and slanted to be contradictory to the bible..... Did you ever wonder why that might be? Most of the early bible was written when the Hebrews were in captivity in Babylon. Long after the fact and definitely not written by either Moses of Joshua.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jul 14, 2014 20:23:24 GMT -5
sounds like a revisionist to me..someone who never lived during the times in question and writes a paper or book trying to contradict the bible... i haven't done any research on joshua becuase everything out there was written in the last century and is written and slanted to be contradictory to the bible..... How about the word "explanatory" rather than "revisonist?"
Do you believe that unless someone actually lived during the times that they write about, that they can't actually determine what was going on?
Don't you believe that when historians or anyone, can look back at what happened by using their increased knowledge, that they can actually see the situation in a new & more accurate light?
Actually, NOT everything written in the last century has been slanted to be contradictory to the bible, sometimes it has actually confirmed some things in the bible.....
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Post by guitar on Jul 17, 2014 14:57:33 GMT -5
Looks like there was not a lot of dating going on at the time. More like gifting.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2014 4:45:43 GMT -5
sounds like a revisionist to me..someone who never lived during the times in question and writes a paper or book trying to contradict the bible... i haven't done any research on joshua becuase everything out there was written in the last century and is written and slanted to be contradictory to the bible..... I guess revelation is the easiest way to go, huh? yup then we don't have to rely on the feeble mind of man
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Post by snow on Jul 18, 2014 9:59:06 GMT -5
I guess revelation is the easiest way to go, huh? yup then we don't have to rely on the feeble mind of man Here's a different way to look at it. Revelations do come from the mind of man, but that mind is not feeble? I think religion has programmed us to think we are worthless, helpless and lacking in every way. If we truly are creations of a superior being, do you think that we would be that worthless, helpless and lacking in any way? But when we listen to priests tell us every day that we are nothing but sinners that couldn't be saved except for the blood sacrifice of the god who made us, we start to see ourselves in a negative light. Just a different perspective of who we really are for your pondering.
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Post by Scott Ross on Jul 18, 2014 10:55:44 GMT -5
yup then we don't have to rely on the feeble mind of man Here's a different way to look at it. Revelations do come from the mind of man, but that mind is not feeble? I think religion has programmed us to think we are worthless, helpless and lacking in every way. If we truly are creations of a superior being, do you think that we would be that worthless, helpless and lacking in any way? But when we listen to priests tell us every day that we are nothing but sinners that couldn't be saved except for the blood sacrifice of the god who made us, we start to see ourselves in a negative light. Just a different perspective of who we really are for your pondering. Actually, my personal experience is that I am just the opposite of that. It was prior to trusting in the Lord that I felt that way.
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Post by snow on Jul 18, 2014 11:21:05 GMT -5
Here's a different way to look at it. Revelations do come from the mind of man, but that mind is not feeble? I think religion has programmed us to think we are worthless, helpless and lacking in every way. If we truly are creations of a superior being, do you think that we would be that worthless, helpless and lacking in any way? But when we listen to priests tell us every day that we are nothing but sinners that couldn't be saved except for the blood sacrifice of the god who made us, we start to see ourselves in a negative light. Just a different perspective of who we really are for your pondering. Actually, my personal experience is that I am just the opposite of that. It was prior to trusting in the Lord that I felt that way. Prior to trusting in God you felt that man is feeble minded, helpless and lacking? After you didn't feel man was those things? Is that correct? That's interesting if that's what you meant. My experience has been people telling me how unworthy they are etc.
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