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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2014 0:22:40 GMT -5
Part of the problem of the historicity (or lack thereof) of Exodus lies in the DATING. A major event happened in the Bronze Age which COULD have been related, were it not for the dating, was the eruption of a volcano on Santorini called Thera. But wise men have long cautioned "the dates don't coincide" with Moses. But I have watched over the years as the dates slowly converge. The Jews are Semites, and Semite rule over Egypt allowed the Jews to "dwell" in Egypt for 400 years. Its quite possible that the Jews took advantage of the catastrophe to 1 - leave Egypt 2 - seize Canaan. I don't have any particular opinion on this, but it is interesting that this pharaoh "could" have been the one who withstood Moses. www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/04/140401172908.htm
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 5, 2014 0:56:06 GMT -5
Part of the problem of the historicity (or lack thereof) of Exodus lies in the DATING. A major event happened in the Bronze Age which COULD have been related, were it not for the dating, was the eruption of a volcano on Santorini called Thera. But wise men have long cautioned "the dates don't coincide" with Moses. But I have watched over the years as the dates slowly converge. The Jews are Semites, and Semite rule over Egypt allowed the Jews to "dwell" in Egypt for 400 years. Its quite possible that the Jews took advantage of the catastrophe to 1 - leave Egypt 2 - seize Canaan. I don't have any particular opinion on this, but it is interesting that this pharaoh "could" have been the one who withstood Moses. www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/04/140401172908.htmAnything is possible.
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Post by xna on Jun 12, 2014 8:29:18 GMT -5
Part of the problem of the historicity (or lack thereof) of Exodus lies in the DATING. . -------- I would have thought Moses would have died sooner as God tried to kill Moses, but couldn't. Exodus 4:24 "At a lodging place on the way the Lord met him and sought to put him to death."
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Post by snow on Jun 12, 2014 9:32:39 GMT -5
Bert, when I saw the title of this thread I thought it was about Moses having a hard time getting a date. However, I think it would be nearly impossible if he never even existed but was only a story.
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Post by faune on Jun 12, 2014 11:18:02 GMT -5
Bert ~ When you read of the personal life experiences of Moses and his feats, I can understand why his story comes across more like an ancient myth than a real life person. This Wiki article gives some timeline history for dating purposes, which does pertain to around the Bronze Age. However, as far his time in history goes, there's quite large gap that exists in dating that fact, too. The article below deals with archeological evidence which puts the Exodus around 1446 B.C. and Moses' birth around 1526 B.C. That would make him around 980 years old at the time of the Exodus, I would estimate? The Bible account says he was 120 years old when he died in Deuteronomy 34:7, so something just doesn't add up, IMHO?
biblehub.com/deuteronomy/34-7.htm
www.bible.ca/archeology/bible-archeology-exodus-date-1440bc.htm
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moses
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Post by BobWilliston on Jun 12, 2014 15:56:41 GMT -5
I would have thought Moses would have died sooner as God tried to kill Moses, but couldn't. Exodus 4:24 "At a lodging place on the way the Lord met him and sought to put him to death." This passage, and many other passages, show us clearly that the God of the OT did not behave as the Christian god is presumed to behave today. In the OT god thought like humans, now his thoughts are perfect from everlasting to everlasting. The problem of learning what the Bible says before one can read it for himself.
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Post by xna on Jun 12, 2014 16:37:39 GMT -5
~~ Battles rages on between Yahweh God Vs. Satan/Egyptians Pharaoh hybrid race underworld gods for thousands of years
------- Nathan9 Judges 1:19 "Now the LORD was with Judah, and they took possession of the hill country; but they could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley because they had iron chariots." Do you think those chariots of iron were alien space ships?
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Post by rational on Jun 12, 2014 16:50:09 GMT -5
~~ Battles rages on between Yahweh God Vs. Satan/Egyptians Pharaoh hybrid race underworld gods for thousands of years
------- Nathan9 Judges 1:19 "Now the LORD was with Judah, and they took possession of the hill country; but they could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley because they had iron chariots." Do you think those chariots of iron were alien space ships? Gives a whole new meaning to omnipotent.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2014 20:08:02 GMT -5
Nathan. You need to recite this: "I will not copy and paste, I will not copy and paste"
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Post by dmmichgood on Jun 12, 2014 21:13:33 GMT -5
------- Nathan9 Judges 1:19 "Now the LORD was with Judah, and they took possession of the hill country; but they could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley because they had iron chariots." Do you think those chariots of iron were alien space ships? ~~ Good question, there is so much that we will never understand or know what all had happened in the Old Testament history. We know aliens and space ships have existed for millions and billions of years. During WW II the Allied Air Force encountered Round balls Foo Fighters! which disrupted/stopped their Bombers engines and made the planes crashed to the grounds.
ANCIENT Human women aliens/Annunaki= Those came from the heaven intact bodies found on the moon by Apollo 20 astronauts in 1976.
~~
NATHAN!
NO, WE DON'T know "aliens and space ships have existed for millions and billions of years" BALONEY!
NO, WE DON'T KNOW THAT "During WW II the Allied Air Force encountered Round balls Foo Fighters! which disrupted/stopped their Bombers engines and made the planes crashed to the grounds." BECAUSE IT DIDN'T HAPPEN!
NO, WE DON'T KNOW "ANCIENT Human women aliens/Annunaki= Those came from the heaven intact bodies found on the moon by Apollo 20 astronauts in 1976." BECAUSE NO BODIES WERE FOUND IN 1976 OR ANY OTHER YEAR BY ANY astronauts!
WAKE UP!
YOU ARE BEING LED DOWN THE GARDEN PATH BY A BUNCH OF CON ARTISTS!
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Post by Brick on Jun 12, 2014 21:31:11 GMT -5
Let's not be so quick to put Nathan down for being a closet Stargate fan.
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Post by rational on Jun 12, 2014 21:53:32 GMT -5
A HUGE pagan altar building on the Moon (046:46). A Huge UFO mother ship (10 times the length of Queen Mary ship/tall as the Eiffel tower in Paris) Mining Mountain of gold, silver on the moon (048:42). The Apollo 11 astronauts entered abandoned an alien based, which the Nazi took over in 1930-40s. Did you work this through, Nathan? A 3+ kilometers (1.75+ miles) structure on the moon would be visible from earth with optical telescopes. To even amateur telescopes, features as small as 1 kilometer are visible. How could that be hidden? Did you pay to get the complete DVD?
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Post by Rob Sargison on Jun 13, 2014 1:36:55 GMT -5
Money originated on the dark side of the moon. Not many know that.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jun 13, 2014 2:21:10 GMT -5
"There is really no dark side of the moon"
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jun 13, 2014 15:16:33 GMT -5
Nathan, with regard to your claims, can we just concentrate on the Nazi moonbase for awhile. Could you list your evidence for me to go through and also tell me what you know about Nazi rocket science? Thanks.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jun 13, 2014 15:58:49 GMT -5
Let's not be so quick to put Nathan down for being a closet Stargate fan. Perhaps, but NATHAN isn't in the "closet" about it! He believes it & propagates it all the time! He is an evangalist on the subject!
He is either pulling our leg and doesn't believe it himself or he believes it so whole-heartedly that he wants all of us to believe it as well.
Or maybe he just wants to get a lot of attention.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jun 13, 2014 16:03:06 GMT -5
Let's not be so quick to put Nathan down for being a closet Stargate fan. Do you suppose he watches a lot of TV?
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Post by dmmichgood on Jun 13, 2014 16:05:15 GMT -5
A HUGE pagan altar building on the Moon (046:46). A Huge UFO mother ship (10 times the length of Queen Mary ship/tall as the Eiffel tower in Paris) Mining Mountain of gold, silver on the moon (048:42). The Apollo 11 astronauts entered abandoned an alien based, which the Nazi took over in 1930-40s. Did you work this through, Nathan? A 3+ kilometers (1.75+ miles) structure on the moon would be visible from earth with optical telescopes. To even amateur telescopes, features as small as 1 kilometer are visible. How could that be hidden? Did you pay to get the complete DVD? I doubt that Nathan "works through" any of the logistics of those tall tales
He seems to be a little like a boa constrictor, he just swallows the stories whole.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jun 13, 2014 16:06:56 GMT -5
So probably Moses secretly dated a space alien ??
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jun 13, 2014 16:17:31 GMT -5
Nathan the truth is that the Nazi's had enormous problems with their rocket program. For instance, read David Irvings book called "The Mares Nest" Irving may be discredited in other fields but this is an excellent account and can be corroborated by other sources. In short, they had not developed the technology by war end to send anything more than what they did across to England. They had guidance problems, fuel problems and various design faults which manifested themselves during production. The Nazi's ability to put a rocket on the moon is a nonsense.
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Post by xna on Jun 13, 2014 16:33:03 GMT -5
So probably Moses secretly dated a space alien ?? Moses didn't date a space alien but serving Yahweh God from another Dimension/space in the Universe.I'm with Sagan on this one. "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"
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Post by BobWilliston on Jun 13, 2014 16:33:07 GMT -5
So probably Moses secretly dated a space alien ?? Moses didn't date a space alien but serving Yahweh God from another Dimension/space in the Universe.Do you believe all this stuff you're telling us?
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Post by BobWilliston on Jun 13, 2014 17:08:12 GMT -5
Do you believe all this stuff you're telling us? Of course I believe it, I wouldn't have wasted your time and my time if I didn't believe any of it. John the Baptist said Jesus came from above. Jesus said in John 14:1-3 “Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also." The disciples of Jesus SAW him ascending up into the sky in Acts 1:9-11 Now when He/Jesus had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. 10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.”
Before Stephen died he looked up into the sky and SAW Jesus standing in heaven Acts 7:54-60 When they heard these things they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed at him with their teeth. But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God, and said, “Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!”
Then they cried out with a loud voice, stopped their ears, and ran at him with one accord; 58 and they cast him out of the city and stoned him. And the witnesses laid down their clothes at the feet of a young man named Saul. 59 And they stoned Stephen as he was calling on God and saying, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” 60 Then he knelt down and cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not charge them with this sin.” And when he had said this, he fell asleep.
Actually you didn't waste much of my time. When it comes to space ships and aliens I skip a lot of it. I am quite amazed that you find that alien spaceships, etc., have anything at all to do with Stephen's stoning and Moses.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2014 21:37:53 GMT -5
Nathan, re Nazi moonshot. I did a project on this one. Head Nazi rocket guy was Von Braun, and yes, he DID get to the moon - in 1967. Braun claimed that he designed a rocket to reach orbit (as opposed to space, which the V2 could reach) that could have been built by 1947. But many believe he made that story up to cover the fact he basically built Nazi rockets to kill people.
Nathan, whenever you make a claim please CHECK THE CREDENTIALS OF THE PERSON MAKING THAT CLAIM. YOU of all people should know about "truths" on the Internet.
ps as far as I know, you can't get to the moon in secret. You have the issue of optical, radio and basic human intelligence giving you away. And it took America about 500,000 people and one hundred billion dollars in today's money to do it. Most of this technology was simply not available in WWII.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jun 13, 2014 22:26:01 GMT -5
Someone posted about the Lord killing Moses, and want to know alien space ships in the Old Testament so, I answered both of his questions. Another one wants to know about Nazi moonbase on the moon, so I answer her question. Someone said, "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" And I showed what Jesus said where he came from above and after death he went back to where he came from, and Stephen saw him standing in another dimension... But you have to remember that evidence is not necessarily PROOF -- especially if it's extraordinary.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2014 22:36:00 GMT -5
The thing about the bible is that it isn't based upon "evidence" but "faith." It openly states that to its readers. And it makes claims which appear to be, quite cheerfully, totally absurd.
Or at least, absurd in differing ways to different generations. That life came out of the sea (Genesis 1) was "absurd" to all pre-18th Century generations. That the Messiah-King would be "cut off" by the Romans seemed "absurd" to the Jews. That the Jews would take back Israel "with the sword" seemed "absurd" to just about everyone for 2,000 years.
And for me - had the fulfilled prophecies of the Messiah and Israel been human-fashioned, I would call that "absurd."
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jun 14, 2014 0:11:44 GMT -5
Nathan, re Nazi moonshot. I did a project on this one. Head Nazi rocket guy was Von Braun, and yes, he DID get to the moon - in 1967. Braun claimed that he designed a rocket to reach orbit (as opposed to space, which the V2 could reach) that could have been built by 1947. But many believe he made that story up to cover the fact he basically built Nazi rockets to kill people. Nathan, whenever you make a claim please CHECK THE CREDENTIALS OF THE PERSON MAKING THAT CLAIM. YOU of all people should know about "truths" on the Internet. ps as far as I know, you can't get to the moon in secret. You have the issue of optical, radio and basic human intelligence giving you away. And it took America about 500,000 people and one hundred billion dollars in today's money to do it. Most of this technology was simply not available in WWII. Bert, From memory Von Braun went on to work after the war for the United States. The German rocket program was much more advanced than the USA's or England's. In the early days of the war he was in charge of the German program but later on he had to answer to one of the SS who was put in charge. I think his name was Kammler and there is rumour that he was taken after the war to the USA and interrogated for a couple of years before he managed to top himself. The official account is he committed suicide in Germany during the last days of the war. I think that Von Braun would have been happy just to build rockets to go to the moon. I doubt he was a Nazi, rather he had to do their bidding like many would have. However it was early days for rockets and they had enormous problems. An allied air raid on Peneemunde, their base in the north of Germany didn't help things. The Mares Nest is a good read and based on fact.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jun 14, 2014 0:36:42 GMT -5
Nathan that stuff is nonsense. The Nazi's did not have the scientific, engineering, material resources or even the financial ability to do any of this. The rocket program was costing them a bundle as it was.
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