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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 17, 2014 21:12:59 GMT -5
I'd rank a #6 too. multiple universes. That's interesting. I'll give them a read. I haven't investigated Satanism yet. I'll have to dig out my Bible.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2014 21:26:35 GMT -5
God hates liars so those who tell lies is not a follower of the Christ Now we're getting somewhere! Tell us, Virgo, have you ever told a lie? Will you never tell a lie in the future? Not even a little one, like "yes, dear, that dress looks nice on you" or "thank you so much, we had a lovely time"? absolutely, anyone who says they haven't lied is telling lies more than likely we are all falible and at that time of the lie i was not following Jesus but taking my own way but can thankfully say that we have a loving Father who forgives sin when one repents and asks for forgiveness
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Post by snow on Jul 17, 2014 21:42:17 GMT -5
Now we're getting somewhere! Tell us, Virgo, have you ever told a lie? Will you never tell a lie in the future? Not even a little one, like "yes, dear, that dress looks nice on you" or "thank you so much, we had a lovely time"? absolutely, anyone who says they haven't lied is telling lies more than likely we are all falible and at that time of the lie i was not following Jesus but taking my own way but can thankfully say that we have a loving Father who forgives sin when one repents and asks for forgiveness This interests me. Are you saying you haven't lied since you started following Jesus, or are you saying that you are not following Jesus every time you lie?
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Post by snow on Jul 17, 2014 21:43:31 GMT -5
I'd rank a #6 too. multiple universes. That's interesting. I'll give them a read. I haven't investigated Satanism yet. I'll have to dig out my Bible. Ha! you're bad! Let me know what you find. Wait, what are you looking for?
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Post by dmmichgood on Jul 17, 2014 22:06:57 GMT -5
I have no more of a need to believe in a multiple universe any more than I have a need to believe in any kind of continued existence after I die!
This universe and this life are enough for me and I can't understand people's continued need to want more!
To me it is just a kind of hubris to think that we are so important in the whole scheme of things that we are going to an after life or we will exist in a parallel universe!
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Post by snow on Jul 17, 2014 22:15:49 GMT -5
I have no more of a need to believe in a multiple universe any more than I have a need to believe in any kind of continued existence after I die!
This universe and this life are enough for me and I can't understand people's continued need to want more!
To me it is just a kind of hubris to think that we are so important in the whole scheme of things that we are going to an after life or we will exist in a parallel universe! I don't actually want to exist after death. I would much rather it be the end. My issue is that I am not sure it is the end and there might be an afterlife. If that is the case, what is it like? Why would it happen? For some reason though, I don't really see any purpose to an afterlife because I don't believe in heaven, hell or a god. Sometimes I think it would be easier if I just either believed in a God and had lots of faith or totally didn't believe in anything at all other than this life and no afterlife. I lean very hard to the position that there is no afterlife. That's how I live this one. Making the most of each day I have now.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2014 22:54:59 GMT -5
absolutely, anyone who says they haven't lied is telling lies more than likely we are all falible and at that time of the lie i was not following Jesus but taking my own way but can thankfully say that we have a loving Father who forgives sin when one repents and asks for forgiveness This interests me. Are you saying you haven't lied since you started following Jesus, or are you saying that you are not following Jesus every time you lie? read my post again the answer is there to your question
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 18, 2014 2:27:09 GMT -5
I haven't investigated Satanism yet. I'll have to dig out my Bible. Ha! you're bad! Let me know what you find. Wait, what are you looking for? I don't know. I can't find any of them locally. Well, there are some weirdos who call themselves Satanic Witches -- wantabees. Something like Baptist Muslims.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jul 18, 2014 3:19:47 GMT -5
Do you mean bookshop bhudhists?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2014 4:37:14 GMT -5
which of those listed above would preclude Jesus from calling someone a Christian? what does Jesus say in the Scripture of those above? From the verses you quote elsewhere (Matthew 5:21, Matthew 19:18, Romans 13:9) you appear to be saying that the following sins preclude someone from calling themselves a Christian (or from Jesus calling them a Christian): Killing Committing Adultery Stealing Coveting Bearing False Witness Yes Jesus speaks against all of these, but he goes even further, as you yourself touched upon when you said in another post “even if they have a thought of death to another goes against the statues (statutes?) love thy neighbour as thyself” But Jesus goes even further than that. Matthew 5:21-22 21 “You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ 22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca, is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.
Matthew 5:27-28
27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery. 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
You (Virgo) state unequivocally that “Christians don’t Kill”
You (Virgo) state that you are a Christian *
You (Virgo) sin
What I`m trying to get at is this: What sin do you (Virgo) do that but still allows you to call yourself a Christian, given what Jesus says about even just being angry, or just calling someone a fool, or even just looking lustfully at a woman.
* To be fair, it was Wally that stated he was a Christian and you responded, but I take it you would consider yourself a Christian too? professing.proboards.com/post/595704i wonder do you find me wrong in stating christians don't kill? i don't know if i have ever stated the i'm a christian but will take it as being so if someone can show otherwise, i consider myself to the best of my ability to be a follower of Jesus Christ even if poorly yes i sin, every one sins we are told so and i wish i could be even like some one here who seem to be more of followers of Jesus than i we must remember that i only stated what was in the Bible as to the post from snow stating about christians killing one another if i was to state that i consider myself a christian it would be a very poor one
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Post by Gene on Jul 18, 2014 5:21:05 GMT -5
absolutely, anyone who says they haven't lied is telling lies more than likely we are all falible and at that time of the lie i was not following Jesus but taking my own way but can thankfully say that we have a loving Father who forgives sin when one repents and asks for forgiveness This interests me. Are you saying you haven't lied since you started following Jesus, or are you saying that you are not following Jesus every time you lie? Snow, since Virgo's answer to you included no additional clarification, allow me! Virgo appears to be holding the standard 2x2 position: One's status as a "follower of Jesus" is an on-and-off affair. When a person lies, he is not following Jesus. Once the lie is past, and if his next utterance is truth, he is a follower of Jesus again, albeit with a black mark for having told the lie. Then, if he repents of the lie and asks for forgiveness, the black mark is wiped away by his loving Father who forgives sin. I think that's why there has traditionally been a hesitancy for 2x2ers to call themselves "Christians" -- by this rationale, they are only Christians when they are not sinning.
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Post by uker260702 on Jul 18, 2014 5:55:17 GMT -5
From the verses you quote elsewhere (Matthew 5:21, Matthew 19:18, Romans 13:9) you appear to be saying that the following sins preclude someone from calling themselves a Christian (or from Jesus calling them a Christian): Killing Committing Adultery Stealing Coveting Bearing False Witness Yes Jesus speaks against all of these, but he goes even further, as you yourself touched upon when you said in another post “even if they have a thought of death to another goes against the statues (statutes?) love thy neighbour as thyself” But Jesus goes even further than that. Matthew 5:21-22 21 “You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ 22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca, is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.
Matthew 5:27-28
27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery. 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
You (Virgo) state unequivocally that “Christians don’t Kill”
You (Virgo) state that you are a Christian *
You (Virgo) sin
What I`m trying to get at is this: What sin do you (Virgo) do that but still allows you to call yourself a Christian, given what Jesus says about even just being angry, or just calling someone a fool, or even just looking lustfully at a woman.
* To be fair, it was Wally that stated he was a Christian and you responded, but I take it you would consider yourself a Christian too? professing.proboards.com/post/595704i wonder do you find me wrong in stating christians don't kill? i don't know if i have ever stated the i'm a christian but will take it as being so if someone can show otherwise, i consider myself to the best of my ability to be a follower of Jesus Christ even if poorly yes i sin, every one sins we are told so and i wish i could be even like some one here who seem to be more of followers of Jesus than i we must remember that i only stated what was in the Bible as to the post from snow stating about christians killing one another if i was to state that i consider myself a christian it would be a very poor one I think I understand where you`re coming from regarding Christians not killing, looking at what Jesus said. But say a Christian tells a lie, are they still a Christian while they tell that lie, or do they stop being a Christian for a few seconds them become one again? Then if one replaces "tells a lie" with any other sin, would one get the same answer to the question above? (For purposes of discussion I`m equating "being a follower of Jesus" with being a Christian) (I see Gene posted similar thoughts while I was cobbling mine together )
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Post by xna on Jul 18, 2014 5:58:39 GMT -5
I'd rank a #6 too. multiple universes. That's interesting. I'll give them a read. edit. Okay I've been giving the first one a read. I'm interested in your thoughts about how life would continue in a multiverse. Do you mean that 'we' would continue or just life in general continues on different levels? Multiverse. This is an area we are just starting to explore. I don't claim to know much about it, but I find it interesting. What I do know is that at the very small, and very large scale, things act "strange" compared to our scale of experience. That's why I am open to the possibility. I suspect our "we" ends at our death, because I have no evidence to suggest otherwise. Our energy and matter remains in the universe but our "we" is over. If "we" continue in other universes I don't expect there is an awareness. ref: www.sciencechannel.com/tv-shows/through-the-wormhole/videos/through-the-wormhole-inflation-theory-and-the-multiverse.htm
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Post by snow on Jul 18, 2014 10:05:13 GMT -5
This interests me. Are you saying you haven't lied since you started following Jesus, or are you saying that you are not following Jesus every time you lie? read my post again the answer is there to your question Well since you won't confirm I will just have to go with, you haven't lied since you started following Jesus. Somehow I think that might be a hard one to claim since we can also lie through omission.
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Post by snow on Jul 18, 2014 10:08:05 GMT -5
This interests me. Are you saying you haven't lied since you started following Jesus, or are you saying that you are not following Jesus every time you lie? Snow, since Virgo's answer to you included no additional clarification, allow me! Virgo appears to be holding the standard 2x2 position: One's status as a "follower of Jesus" is an on-and-off affair. When a person lies, he is not following Jesus. Once the lie is past, and if his next utterance is truth, he is a follower of Jesus again, albeit with a black mark for having told the lie. Then, if he repents of the lie and asks for forgiveness, the black mark is wiped away by his loving Father who forgives sin. I think that's why there has traditionally been a hesitancy for 2x2ers to call themselves "Christians" -- by this rationale, they are only Christians when they are not sinning. I see. But wouldn't repetitive sinning in this way get on God's nerves and at some point he will say 'strike three you're out'?
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Post by snow on Jul 18, 2014 10:13:10 GMT -5
I'd rank a #6 too. multiple universes. That's interesting. I'll give them a read. edit. Okay I've been giving the first one a read. I'm interested in your thoughts about how life would continue in a multiverse. Do you mean that 'we' would continue or just life in general continues on different levels? Multiverse. This is an area we are just starting to explore. I don't claim to know much about it, but I find it interesting. What I do know is that at the very small, and very large scale, things act "strange" compared to our scale of experience. That's why I am open to the possibility. I suspect our "we" ends at our death, because I have no evidence to suggest otherwise. Our energy and matter remains in the universe but our "we" is over. If "we" continue in other universes I don't expect there is an awareness. ref: www.sciencechannel.com/tv-shows/through-the-wormhole/videos/through-the-wormhole-inflation-theory-and-the-multiverse.htmSo our energy survives, but our current consciousness does not? Pretty much what I believe too. A bit differently because my thoughts didn't include multiverses. If our bodies were dealt with the same way after death as plants and animals, we would naturally decay providing sustenance for that which is living. That energy continues in the life it gives to those who eat the food, or live in the wood house etc. Energy cannot die, only transformed?
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Post by xna on Jul 18, 2014 11:58:17 GMT -5
So our energy survives, but our current consciousness does not? Our Energy Survives Our Death: Yes
Matter and energy cannot be destroyed, but can be transformed in a nuclear reaction. (E = MC^2). When we die, our energy survives, but unless you die from in a nuclear reaction, you should expect only a rearrangement of potential and kinetic energy. In the big picture your body (most of your atoms that is) were created from a nuclear explosion, and you are destine to do this it over and over again. Your are now likely 3rd generation star stuff. www.youtube.com/watch?v=vl4g7T5gw1Men.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun chemistry.about.com/od/geochemist... Our Consciousness Survives Our Death: Unlikely (This is it - make the most of it.) That's a hard one. I loose consciousness every night when I go to sleep, but then it returns when I wake up. By some not fully understood mechanism, we reboot. I understand consciousness is what we call mind, and mind is what the brain does. I also understand it is an emergent property. I expect to loose consciousness when I die, and not be rebooted ever again. I'm not sure anyone really knows that much about how consciousness works, but recently they located a part of the brain, were they can "turn off" consciousness. www.newscientist.com/article/mg22329762.700-consciousness-onoff-switch-discovered-deep-in-brain.html#.U8lIFIBdV68
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Post by snow on Jul 18, 2014 12:38:54 GMT -5
So our energy survives, but our current consciousness does not? Our Energy Survives Our Death: Yes
Matter and energy cannot be destroyed, but can be transformed in a nuclear reaction. (E = MC^2). When we die, our energy survives, but unless you die from in a nuclear reaction, you should expect only a rearrangement of potential and kinetic energy. In the big picture your body (most of your atoms that is) were created from a nuclear explosion, and you are destine to do this it over and over again. Your are now likely 3rd generation star stuff. www.youtube.com/watch?v=vl4g7T5gw1Men.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun chemistry.about.com/od/geochemist... Our Consciousness Survives Our Death: Unlikely (This is it - make the most of it.) That's a hard one. I loose consciousness every night when I go to sleep, but then it returns when I wake up. By some not fully understood mechanism, we reboot. I understand consciousness is what we call mind, and mind is what the brain does. I also understand it is an emergent property. I expect to loose consciousness when I die, and not be rebooted ever again. I'm not sure anyone really knows that much about how consciousness works, but recently they located a part of the brain, were they can "turn off" consciousness. www.newscientist.com/article/mg22329762.700-consciousness-onoff-switch-discovered-deep-in-brain.html#.U8lIFIBdV68Yes I saw that regarding the switch that turns off consciousness. I tend to agree with you. Our energy continues but our consciousness turns off and doesn't get rebooted. Having said that though, I have always been intrigued with the concept of reincarnation. I guess the test that the Dalai Lama goes through to prove he is the reincarnation of the previous Dalai Lama is why I wonder about it. It is an interesting and intriguing assortment of tests they go through. In my perspective anyway.
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Post by xna on Jul 18, 2014 12:42:04 GMT -5
I have no more of a need to believe in a multiple universe any more than I have a need to believe in any kind of continued existence after I die!
This universe and this life are enough for me and I can't understand people's continued need to want more!
To me it is just a kind of hubris to think that we are so important in the whole scheme of things that we are going to an after life or we will exist in a parallel universe! The universe is indifferent.
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Post by Gene on Jul 18, 2014 19:18:02 GMT -5
Snow, since Virgo's answer to you included no additional clarification, allow me! Virgo appears to be holding the standard 2x2 position: One's status as a "follower of Jesus" is an on-and-off affair. When a person lies, he is not following Jesus. Once the lie is past, and if his next utterance is truth, he is a follower of Jesus again, albeit with a black mark for having told the lie. Then, if he repents of the lie and asks for forgiveness, the black mark is wiped away by his loving Father who forgives sin. I think that's why there has traditionally been a hesitancy for 2x2ers to call themselves "Christians" -- by this rationale, they are only Christians when they are not sinning. I see. But wouldn't repetitive sinning in this way get on God's nerves and at some point he will say 'strike three you're out'? Wellyousee that's why Christians (oops -- they don't claim that word) Sometime-Followers-of-Jesus are scared spitless of death--much more so than you are! They're never quite sure which strike they're on, nor how many strikes equals an out!
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Post by snow on Jul 18, 2014 20:00:09 GMT -5
I see. But wouldn't repetitive sinning in this way get on God's nerves and at some point he will say 'strike three you're out'? Wellyousee that's why Christians (oops -- they don't claim that word) Sometime-Followers-of-Jesus are scared spitless of death--much more so than you are! They're never quite sure which strike they're on, nor how many strikes equals an out! That would be a hard way to live. It's how I once lived and I would never want to go back to it. I'm pretty comfortable with dying now. I don't want to leave my loved ones and I don't want to have a painful death, but other than that I'm more at peace with dying than I ever was.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 18, 2014 21:10:15 GMT -5
Snow, since Virgo's answer to you included no additional clarification, allow me! Virgo appears to be holding the standard 2x2 position: One's status as a "follower of Jesus" is an on-and-off affair. When a person lies, he is not following Jesus. Once the lie is past, and if his next utterance is truth, he is a follower of Jesus again, albeit with a black mark for having told the lie. Then, if he repents of the lie and asks for forgiveness, the black mark is wiped away by his loving Father who forgives sin. I think that's why there has traditionally been a hesitancy for 2x2ers to call themselves "Christians" -- by this rationale, they are only Christians when they are not sinning. I see. But wouldn't repetitive sinning in this way get on God's nerves and at some point he will say 'strike three you're out'? That's why they proposed changing it from 7 times 7 to 77 times 77.
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Post by snow on Jul 18, 2014 21:15:40 GMT -5
I see. But wouldn't repetitive sinning in this way get on God's nerves and at some point he will say 'strike three you're out'? That's why they proposed changing it from 7 times 7 to 77 times 77. I'm pretty sure I'd still be in trouble...
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jul 19, 2014 0:45:48 GMT -5
This interests me. Are you saying you haven't lied since you started following Jesus, or are you saying that you are not following Jesus every time you lie? Snow, since Virgo's answer to you included no additional clarification, allow me! Virgo appears to be holding the standard 2x2 position: One's status as a "follower of Jesus" is an on-and-off affair. When a person lies, he is not following Jesus. Once the lie is past, and if his next utterance is truth, he is a follower of Jesus again, albeit with a black mark for having told the lie. Then, if he repents of the lie and asks for forgiveness, the black mark is wiped away by his loving Father who forgives sin. I think that's why there has traditionally been a hesitancy for 2x2ers to call themselves "Christians" -- by this rationale, they are only Christians when they are not sinning. hmmmmmm, where's that verse about sinning presumptously?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2014 1:32:35 GMT -5
This interests me. Are you saying you haven't lied since you started following Jesus, or are you saying that you are not following Jesus every time you lie? Snow, since Virgo's answer to you included no additional clarification, allow me! Virgo appears to be holding the standard 2x2 position: One's status as a "follower of Jesus" is an on-and-off affair. When a person lies, he is not following Jesus. Once the lie is past, and if his next utterance is truth, he is a follower of Jesus again, albeit with a black mark for having told the lie. Then, if he repents of the lie and asks for forgiveness, the black mark is wiped away by his loving Father who forgives sin. I think that's why there has traditionally been a hesitancy for 2x2ers to call themselves "Christians" -- by this rationale, they are only Christians when they are not sinning. it don't need clarification it is all there as plain as day, snow even highlighted it gosh gene your mind runs rampant
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2014 1:35:25 GMT -5
i wonder do you find me wrong in stating christians don't kill? i don't know if i have ever stated the i'm a christian but will take it as being so if someone can show otherwise, i consider myself to the best of my ability to be a follower of Jesus Christ even if poorly yes i sin, every one sins we are told so and i wish i could be even like some one here who seem to be more of followers of Jesus than i we must remember that i only stated what was in the Bible as to the post from snow stating about christians killing one another if i was to state that i consider myself a christian it would be a very poor one I think I understand where you`re coming from regarding Christians not killing, looking at what Jesus said. But say a Christian tells a lie, are they still a Christian while they tell that lie, or do they stop being a Christian for a few seconds them become one again? Then if one replaces "tells a lie" with any other sin, would one get the same answer to the question above? (For purposes of discussion I`m equating "being a follower of Jesus" with being a Christian) (I see Gene posted similar thoughts while I was cobbling mine together ) i will say i don't feel very Christ like after
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2014 1:36:59 GMT -5
Snow, since Virgo's answer to you included no additional clarification, allow me! Virgo appears to be holding the standard 2x2 position: One's status as a "follower of Jesus" is an on-and-off affair. When a person lies, he is not following Jesus. Once the lie is past, and if his next utterance is truth, he is a follower of Jesus again, albeit with a black mark for having told the lie. Then, if he repents of the lie and asks for forgiveness, the black mark is wiped away by his loving Father who forgives sin. I think that's why there has traditionally been a hesitancy for 2x2ers to call themselves "Christians" -- by this rationale, they are only Christians when they are not sinning. hmmmmmm, where's that verse about sinning presumptously? No results were found for 'sinning presumptously' under the Bibles category.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jul 19, 2014 3:17:37 GMT -5
I may have used the wrong word but the words I used show the intent. It's an OT verse I'm thinking of, most likely Isaiah or Proverbs.
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