|
Post by uker260702 on Jul 13, 2014 6:31:23 GMT -5
Ok, that seems unambiguous. Can it be said with the same certainty that Christians do not (for examples)......... Steal? Lie? Covet? Commit adultery? Break the speed limit? Commit CSA? Bear false witness? I`m trying to understand if there is a certain list or level of sins/crimes that would preclude you from calling someone a Christian? which of those listed above would preclude Jesus from calling someone a Christian? what does Jesus say in the Scripture of those above? From the verses you quote elsewhere (Matthew 5:21, Matthew 19:18, Romans 13:9) you appear to be saying that the following sins preclude someone from calling themselves a Christian (or from Jesus calling them a Christian): Killing Committing Adultery Stealing Coveting Bearing False Witness Yes Jesus speaks against all of these, but he goes even further, as you yourself touched upon when you said in another post “even if they have a thought of death to another goes against the statues (statutes?) love thy neighbour as thyself” But Jesus goes even further than that. Matthew 5:21-22 21 “You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ 22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca, is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.
Matthew 5:27-28
27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery. 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
You (Virgo) state unequivocally that “Christians don’t Kill”
You (Virgo) state that you are a Christian *
You (Virgo) sin
What I`m trying to get at is this: What sin do you (Virgo) do that but still allows you to call yourself a Christian, given what Jesus says about even just being angry, or just calling someone a fool, or even just looking lustfully at a woman.
* To be fair, it was Wally that stated he was a Christian and you responded, but I take it you would consider yourself a Christian too? professing.proboards.com/post/595704
|
|
|
Post by xna on Jul 13, 2014 6:55:36 GMT -5
Interestingly, in New Zealand you can be arrested for saying you're an atheist. ------------------------- Times are changing, and fast for New Zealand. In 85 regions around the world which have religious census data, the fastest growing group are the "nones". I suspect in time these laws will be changed. The internet connects us with information like never before. Worldwide people are becoming more questioning, fact and data driven. With google we can, and do question everything. It's quick and easy. Being a fact checker is the new norm. Admitting you were wrong when new facts no longer match your old ideas is now seen as a virtue. Admitting you are wrong, and changing your mind is failure for the dogmatic. Dogma hates new knowledge, and falls to handle change. The projection for New Zealand is; by 2050 more than 90 percent will be "nones", due to the tipping point effect. youtu.be/CifaS8fPxG8dmabrams.esam.northwestern.edu
|
|
|
Post by rational on Jul 13, 2014 7:16:56 GMT -5
christians don't kill people, and i don't think or as far as i understand that muslims are suppose to like peaceably with all men, so if that's right then those who kill are just using the names of christian and muslim as lables and or not true to said doctrines of both followings Matthew-15-4 For God said, 'Honor your father and mother' and 'Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.' Given this Christians would provide job security for non-christians by hiring them to kill people who curse their father or mother. Now, Virgo, when you say kill do you mean 'kill' or do you mean 'murder'? Does any type of homicide exclude a person from being a christian? Killing in the heat of passion? Of course Jesus did say to buy a sword and also that "I came not to bring peace, but to bring a sword". These can easily be written off as metaphors by those who do not like to think about what was actually written. Maybe they were just decorative or ceremonial swords.
|
|
|
Post by xna on Jul 13, 2014 7:33:47 GMT -5
Matthew-15-4 For God said, 'Honor your father and mother' and 'Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.' Given this Christians would provide job security for non-christians by hiring them to kill people who curse their father or mother. Now, Virgo, when you say kill do you mean 'kill' or do you mean 'murder'? Does any type of homicide exclude a person from being a christian? Killing in the heat of passion? Of course Jesus did say to buy a sword and also that "I came not to bring peace, but to bring a sword". These can easily be written off as metaphors by those who do not like to think about what was actually written. Maybe they were just decorative or ceremonial swords. I hope this tread doesn't start another Holy War.
|
|
|
Post by faune on Jul 13, 2014 14:33:31 GMT -5
Matthew-15-4 For God said, 'Honor your father and mother' and 'Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.' Given this Christians would provide job security for non-christians by hiring them to kill people who curse their father or mother. Now, Virgo, when you say kill do you mean 'kill' or do you mean 'murder'? Does any type of homicide exclude a person from being a christian? Killing in the heat of passion? Of course Jesus did say to buy a sword and also that "I came not to bring peace, but to bring a sword". These can easily be written off as metaphors by those who do not like to think about what was actually written. Maybe they were just decorative or ceremonial swords. You just have to admit that the judgments held under the Law of Moses were pretty severe in the O.T. for the crime! Unruly teenagers would surely be on the chopping block if they could be put to death for cursing their parents or stoned for not complying to their every wish?
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Jul 13, 2014 15:57:40 GMT -5
Given this Christians would provide job security for non-christians by hiring them to kill people who curse their father or mother. Now, Virgo, when you say kill do you mean 'kill' or do you mean 'murder'? Does any type of homicide exclude a person from being a christian? Killing in the heat of passion? Of course Jesus did say to buy a sword and also that "I came not to bring peace, but to bring a sword". These can easily be written off as metaphors by those who do not like to think about what was actually written. Maybe they were just decorative or ceremonial swords. I hope this tread doesn't start another Holy War. I wouldn't worry about it. They all have a common enemy -- Muslims.
|
|
|
Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jul 13, 2014 17:26:38 GMT -5
Given this Christians would provide job security for non-christians by hiring them to kill people who curse their father or mother. Now, Virgo, when you say kill do you mean 'kill' or do you mean 'murder'? Does any type of homicide exclude a person from being a christian? Killing in the heat of passion? Of course Jesus did say to buy a sword and also that "I came not to bring peace, but to bring a sword". These can easily be written off as metaphors by those who do not like to think about what was actually written. Maybe they were just decorative or ceremonial swords. You just have to admit that the judgments held under the Law of Moses were pretty severe in the O.T. for the crime! Unruly teenagers would surely be on the chopping block if they could be put to death for cursing their parents or stoned for not complying to their every wish? There's still plenty of teenagers and parents who get stoned.
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Jul 13, 2014 18:03:05 GMT -5
You just have to admit that the judgments held under the Law of Moses were pretty severe in the O.T. for the crime! Unruly teenagers would surely be on the chopping block if they could be put to death for cursing their parents or stoned for not complying to their every wish? There's still plenty of teenagers and parents who get stoned. Don't talk about that. You'll get us in trouble.
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on Jul 13, 2014 18:56:09 GMT -5
"WE WEsterners" would be idiots to not defend our hard-won freedoms.
It would be great if "WE WEsterners" only defended ourselves.
It is interesting, however, that "WE WEsterners" don't usually stop with only defending ourselves.
We tend to invade & conqueror, kill the indigenous peoples or send them off to reservations. We gave our actions majestic sounding names, Manifest Destiny When that is too obvious what really was happening we secretly "disposed" of the their own elected head of state and install one that is a puppet for us. (Shah of Iran)
Oh, & don't forget all the "colonies" by "WE WEsterners!" Another grand, majestic title, Kipling's, The White Man's Burden
|
|
|
Post by Mary on Jul 13, 2014 20:21:45 GMT -5
I hope this tread doesn't start another Holy War. I wouldn't worry about it. They all have a common enemy -- Muslims. Muslims are busy killing each other, they don't need us to help them. Don't forget Islam spread by the sword and nothing has changed.
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Jul 13, 2014 21:03:14 GMT -5
I wouldn't worry about it. They all have a common enemy -- Muslims. Muslims are busy killing each other, they don't need us to help them. Don't forget Islam spread by the sword and nothing has changed. I know all that. What's your beef? I think you missed the point I was making.
|
|
|
Post by Mary on Jul 13, 2014 21:22:34 GMT -5
Beef comes from cows. I know the point you were making but I hadn't finished the previous point. Hey, Germany won the soccer world cup. Congratulations!!
|
|
|
Post by fixit on Jul 13, 2014 23:26:58 GMT -5
I hope this tread doesn't start another Holy War. I wouldn't worry about it. They all have a common enemy -- Muslims. Victim mentality. Most people are respectful of peaceful Islamic traditions.
|
|
|
Post by Mary on Jul 13, 2014 23:42:52 GMT -5
Matthew-15-4 For God said, 'Honor your father and mother' and 'Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.' Given this Christians would provide job security for non-christians by hiring them to kill people who curse their father or mother. Now, Virgo, when you say kill do you mean 'kill' or do you mean 'murder'? Does any type of homicide exclude a person from being a christian? Killing in the heat of passion? Of course Jesus did say to buy a sword and also that "I came not to bring peace, but to bring a sword". These can easily be written off as metaphors by those who do not like to think about what was actually written. Maybe they were just decorative or ceremonial swords. If your read the verses it does not say Jesus is supporting this. He was pointing it out in defence of his disciples not washing their hands. If they worry about his disciples not washing their hands he asks them why don't they obey this verse? Matthew 15 New International Reader's Version (NIRV) What Makes People “Unclean”? 15 Some Pharisees and some teachers of the law came from Jerusalem to see Jesus. They asked, 2 “Why don’t your disciples obey what the elders teach? Your disciples don’t wash their hands before they eat!” 3 Jesus replied, “And why don’t you obey God’s command? You would rather follow your own teachings! 4 God said, ‘Honor your father and mother.’ (Exodus 20:12; Deuteronomy 5:16) He also said, ‘If anyone calls down a curse on his father or mother, he will be put to death.’ (Exodus 21:17; Leviticus 20:9) 5 But you allow people to say to their parents, ‘Any help you might have received from us is a gift set apart for God
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Jul 14, 2014 1:12:56 GMT -5
I wouldn't worry about it. They all have a common enemy -- Muslims. Victim mentality. Most people are respectful of peaceful Islamic traditions. Gosh -- another one who didn't get the point of my post.
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Jul 14, 2014 1:20:14 GMT -5
Beef comes from cows. I know the point you were making but I hadn't finished the previous point. Hey, Germany won the soccer world cup. Congratulations!! Actually, no, you don't sound like you did get the point of the post -- at all. I was answering one specifically "humorous" post but a person who was referring to about two specific people, and I made a somewhat snide remark about present day society -- which had virtually nothing whatsoever to do with Muslims ... if you understood what I was saying.
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Jul 14, 2014 1:28:25 GMT -5
Given this Christians would provide job security for non-christians by hiring them to kill people who curse their father or mother. Now, Virgo, when you say kill do you mean 'kill' or do you mean 'murder'? Does any type of homicide exclude a person from being a christian? Killing in the heat of passion? Of course Jesus did say to buy a sword and also that "I came not to bring peace, but to bring a sword". These can easily be written off as metaphors by those who do not like to think about what was actually written. Maybe they were just decorative or ceremonial swords. I hope this tread doesn't start another Holy War. I changed my mind -- since I read this post the first time. I think I understand how such wars start now.
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on Jul 14, 2014 1:41:35 GMT -5
I hope this tread doesn't start another Holy War. I changed my mind -- since I read this post the first time. I think I understand how such wars start now. Yep, you are on target!
You know what will be the instance that unites all peoples of the earth & and all the religions of the earth?
Whenever Nathan's grey& green lizards that he says have tunnels underground all over the earth finally come to the surface!
Either that or when those aliens from the dark side of the moon attack us.
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Jul 14, 2014 1:57:18 GMT -5
I changed my mind -- since I read this post the first time. I think I understand how such wars start now. Yep, you are on target!
You know what will be the instance that unites all peoples of the earth & and all the religions of the earth?
Whenever Nathan's grey& green lizards that he says have tunnels underground all over the earth finally come to the surface!
Either that or when those aliens from the dark side of the moon attack us.
And once we sided with the Communists. How weak our idealism is when we need the devil's help.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2014 3:42:18 GMT -5
Given this Christians would provide job security for non-christians by hiring them to kill people who curse their father or mother. Now, Virgo, when you say kill do you mean 'kill' or do you mean 'murder'? Does any type of homicide exclude a person from being a christian? Killing in the heat of passion? Of course Jesus did say to buy a sword and also that "I came not to bring peace, but to bring a sword". These can easily be written off as metaphors by those who do not like to think about what was actually written. Maybe they were just decorative or ceremonial swords. to take life/kill/murder of another human being goes against the commandment of Jesus to love you neighbour as yourself, i am absolutely sure that no person on here wishes their lives to be taken by anyone let alone a christian i consider they mean the same thing, i am quite sure Jesus wouldn't be splitting hairs over the taking of anothers life Jesus said they would kill Him but we know it was murder and premeditated at that Matthew 19:18 KJV He saith unto him, Which ? Jesus said , Thou shalt do no murder , Thou shalt not commit adultery , Thou shalt not steal , Thou shalt not bear false witness , Sort results by: Book of the Bible | Most relevant search result Mark 10:19 KJV Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery , Do not kill , Do not steal , Do not bear false witness , Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.
|
|
|
Post by fixit on Jul 14, 2014 4:04:12 GMT -5
Victim mentality. Most people are respectful of peaceful Islamic traditions. Gosh -- another one who didn't get the point of my post. Why do you write such cryptic messages - then pull to pieces the posts of those who respond?
|
|
|
Post by xna on Jul 14, 2014 8:23:49 GMT -5
I changed my mind -- since I read this post the first time. I think I understand how such wars start now. Yep, you are on target!
You know what will be the instance that unites all peoples of the earth & and all the religions of the earth?
Whenever Nathan's grey& green lizards that he says have tunnels underground all over the earth finally come to the surface!
Either that or when those aliens from the dark side of the moon attack us.
For the record, my post “I hope this thread doesn't start another Holy War ” was posted; part in jest and part based on my view of how these conflicts may start. It also seemed timely considering the current back and forth going on in anther thread.
dmmichgood your lizard comment is timely for me as I just had a similar dinner conversation this weekend with long time middle eastern friend visiting the USA. His take on the current Middle East conflict; conflict in Syria, Arab spring, Afghanistan, Iran, etc is in large part due to the rise in social media, mainly twitter.
He believes what the US was / is doing wrong is not hanging around long enough to build a control system like the USA did in Japan after WW II. (The problem today is there is no political will for nation building.) In Egypt for example, with the regime change, the USA did not establish a new government organization, and so the only organization left in the country was the religious ones i.e. Islamic brotherhood. Power was “given” by the USA to the religious extremists, which would otherwise not have been gained as fast by their own efforts.
It has been so in the course of history that, for countries which are ruled by dictators there must be a "greater enemy" to focus on, otherwise the people will turn on the dictator. (We may now see this starting in Russia).
The Middle East is complicated, and there is no simple politically acceptable solution. My solution would be to focus on the root cause, which I see as their irrational religious beliefs, and encourage an Islamic reformation, which I believe is long overdue. There is some progress in this area, but other Muslim countries like Turkey, which are more secular, are now becoming more fundamental.
Our conversation then went to Hollywood movies about alien invaders, where the people of earth face a common and "greater enemy", which unites the people of earth. I thought I would share this insight from someone who lives among the modern day holy wars.
|
|
|
Post by xna on Jul 14, 2014 12:12:46 GMT -5
~~ Did somebody mention about tunnels underground, aliens, greys living in the hollow earth? There is a new theory on how the pyramids were built, and it doesn't involve aliens or a hollow earth. Sorry NathanBsci2.tv/#!/videos/961
|
|
|
Post by xna on Jul 14, 2014 13:07:36 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Jul 14, 2014 15:26:31 GMT -5
Gosh -- another one who didn't get the point of my post. Why do you write such cryptic messages It's my sense of humor -- dry humor, I've been told. It's hard to do otherwise when someone who doesn't get the joke finds fault with what they think I meant.
|
|
|
Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jul 14, 2014 19:07:32 GMT -5
Beef comes from cows. I know the point you were making but I hadn't finished the previous point. Hey, Germany won the soccer world cup. Congratulations!! Yer Germany won the Football World Cup for the fourth time but we beat them twice last century.
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on Jul 14, 2014 19:33:01 GMT -5
Yep, you are on target!
You know what will be the instance that unites all peoples of the earth & and all the religions of the earth?
Whenever Nathan's grey& green lizards that he says have tunnels underground all over the earth finally come to the surface!
Either that or when those aliens from the dark side of the moon attack us.
~~ Did somebody mention about tunnels underground, aliens, greys living in the hollow earth? ~~ Picture of the hallow earth, oceans, clouds, caves, cities, Lands of advance races, etc.... (8:12) www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHesmfi56R4~ Here are a lot of information and documentary about the Hollow earth. MAPs. Hollow earth video taken by the Russian Mir Space station in 1987 at (6:00) www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6kpuIXY2y0~~ Hollow earth and its inhabitants. Underground alien species. Admiral Byrd Hollow earth expedition. www.youtube.com/results?search_query=the+hollow+earth+documentary+&sm=1~~ The Russian document explores the historical mysteries of a Nazi secret base in Antarctica, the 1947 flying saucers attacked and destroyed most of Admiral Byrd's ill-fated 'Operation High Jump' expedition. www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwUpPwyyvLwA novel published in 1871 by Rosicrucian author Edward Bulwer-Lytton, entitled, "THE COMING RACE". Lytton tells the tale of an intrepid explorer who discovers an advanced race of humans living within a vast subterranean world who call themselves "Vril-ya". These beings had formerly been surface dwellers until a global catastrophe not unlike the Old Testament flood, forced them to take refuge deep in the Earth. The survival of this marvelous society was facilitated by their application of a force they referred to as "Vril". www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/ciencia_flyingobjects55.htm~~ HERE is the Amazing Admiral Byrd own Secret diary written on 12/1956 Meeting with the domain of the Arianni Race leader, the Inner World of the Hollow Earth.Arianni race Master said to Admiral Byrd, " You see, our Culture and Science is many thousands of years beyond your race, Admiral.' I interrupted, 'But what does this have to do with me, Sir?' he replied, "Your race has now reached the point of no return, for there are those among you who would destroy your very world rather than relinquish their power as they know it..." I nodded, and the Master continued, "In 1945 and afterward, we tried to contact your race, but our efforts were met with hostility, our Flugelrads were fired upon. Yes, even pursued with malice and animosity by your fighter planes. So, now, I say to you, my son, there is a great storm gathering in your world, a black fury that will not spend itself for many years. There will be no answer in your arms, there will be no safety in your science. It may rage on until every flower of your culture is trampled, and all human things are leveled in vast chaos. Your recent war was only a prelude of what is yet to come for your race. We here see it more clearly with each hour.. do you say I am mistaken?' 'No,' I answer, 'it happened once before, the dark ages came and they lasted for more than five hundred years.' "Yes, my son," replied the Master, 'the dark ages that will come now for your race will cover the Earth like a pall, but I believe that some of your race will live through the storm, beyond that, I cannot say. We see at a great distance a new world stirring from the ruins of your race, seeking its lost and legendary treasures, and they will be here, my son, safe in our keeping. When that time arrives, we shall come forward again to help revive your culture and your race. Perhaps, by then, you will have learned the futility of war and its strife and after that time, certain of your culture and science will be returned for your race to begin anew. You, my son, are to return to the Surface World with this message.....' ~~ March 11, 1947I have just attended a staff meeting at the Pentagon. I have stated fully my discovery and the message from the Master. All is duly recorded. The President has been advised. I am now detained for several hours (six hours, thirty- nine minutes, to be exact.) I am interviewed intently by Top Security Forces and a medical team. It was an ordeal ! I am placed under strict control via the national security provisions of this United States of America. I am Ordered to Remain silent in Regard to all that I have Learned, on the behalf of Humanity!! Incredible! I am reminded that I am a military man and I must obey orders. 30/12/56 - FINAL ENTRYThese last few years elapsed since 1947 have not been kind. I now make my final entry in this singular diary. In closing, I must state that I have faithfully kept this matter secret as directed all these years. It has been completely against my values of moral right. Now, I seem to sense the long night coming on and this secret will not die with me, but as all truth shall, it will triumph and so it shall. This can be the only hope for mankind. I have seen the truth and it has quickened my spirit and has set me free! I have done my duty toward the monstrous military industrial complex. Now, the long night begins to approach, but there shall be no end. Just as the long night of the Arctic ends, the brilliant sunshine of Truth shall come again... and those who are of darkness shall fall in it's Light... For seen that LAND beyond the pole, that center of the great UNKNOWN.Admiral Richard E. Byrd United States Navy 24 December 1956 www.bibliotecapleyades.net/tierra_hueca/esp_tierra_hueca_2d.htm2) Nazi retreat to Anartica after WW IIwww.bibliotecapleyades.net/exopolitica/esp_exopolitics_E_0.htm#The Nazi Retreat Oh, god!
Look what I hath wrought!
Another LOOONNNGGG post from Nathan. You would think that by this time I would know better that to use Nathans "name in vain!"
;)Sorry, folks, sooo sorry.
|
|
|
Post by fixit on Jul 14, 2014 20:10:21 GMT -5
Why do you write such cryptic messages It's my sense of humor -- dry humor, I've been told. It's hard to do otherwise when someone who doesn't get the joke finds fault with what they think I meant. Thanks for the explanation Bob. I miss the kind and caring Bob W who I used to know.
|
|