Post by Nice to know on Mar 30, 2007 14:35:00 GMT -5
From Proboard104
A worker with credits!
usworker
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Re: Why is everybody here?
« Reply #26 on Yesterday at 7:06pm »
________________________________________
Hello everyone. Yes, I am a worker in the US, as my name suggests.
The reason I am here is primarily to read the posts of others and occasionally engage in discussion, all in hopes of better understanding truth as it is in Jesus, and in learning how to implement this truth in my life.
I was b/r in the fellowship. I entered in to the ministry (I prefer this term to "worker") a little over 10 years ago.
I fully acknowledge that William Irvine was the beginning of our particular group. I share this openly with those who take an interest in meetings, and most recently did so about a month ago. I do not believe in Apostolic Succession.
I believe that Jesus is not only the Son of God, but God, as the scripture states, although I do not believe he was God the Father.
I don't believe that you have to hear the workers to be saved. I believe we are saved by the grace of God, through the blood of Jesus Christ. Jesus is the way, not his people.
While I believe that meeting in the homes is scriptural, I do not believe that not doing so bars a person from salvation.
I certainly do not believe that workers or friends are infallible.
Hmm, what else? I'm listing all these things because I anticipate that they are some of the initial questions that I might be asked. I'm not sure if this is the place to have posted them, being new to this. If not, I apologize.
I have tried to read through all of the previous posts before registering myself. Have also read a lot on TMB, never posted, but feel this board is more civil in nature.
I don't know how often I will be posting, but will from time to time. Please realize that when I do post that my writing does not represent the teaching or beliefs of all in our fellowship, and in fact may be in direct opposition to some or many in our group.
At this time, I wish to remain anonymous for personal reasons, although this may change in the future.
I wish each of you the best in your spiritual progress, as we seek to follow Jesus!
usworker
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member is offline
Joined: Mar 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 5
Location: USA
Credits: 5
Next Level: 45 posts
Re: Why is everybody here?
« Reply #31 on Yesterday at 11:25pm »
________________________________________
Thank you for the warm welcome, Selah and Juliette!
Ilylo - your question is a legitimate one. To be frank, I don't feel that there is reconciliation between the two at this point. Yes, I'm familiar with cognitive dissonance:)
A little background might help. I professed when I was nine, at a convention. Obviously, I did not understand much at that age about what professing meant, but felt moved in my heart to do so. I was baptized at the age of fourteen. I don't believe I truly understood much about baptism either, but felt it was the next step in my walk with God.
During my childhood, youth, and in to early adulthood I believed that our fellowship was "the only way." I believed that if you did not go to meetings, you did not have salvation. This came from both direct teaching and inference by workers and friends.
I also believed during this time that there was some unbroken chain in our group from Jesus until now. Then, during the late 80's and early 90's there were several friends in our area who left our group due to learning about William Irvine being the founder. They felt that they had been lied to about the origins of our group.
This experience was traumatic for me, as one family that left included my closest male friend, and my ex girlfriend whom I had dated for a long time. There were many discussions and arguments over many things, but I ultimately came away believing that William Irvine started our fellowship as we know it. However, I believe that "The Way" which is Jesus, was from the beginning, before the foundation of the world. I don't believe that Irvine has any effect on my personal relationship with God, let alone on my salvation.
I am not aware of any group that can trace themselves directly back to Jesus, so if this is necessary for salvation, where does that leave us?
I began to think about the work several years before offering, then eventually did so after a one year waiting period. When I started, and through my first years in the work, I believed that unless you went to meetings you were unsaved. A tenuous position of course, not to mention judgmental.
Then, I began to realize over a period of time that I did not agree with a number of things that I heard being taught or expressed by others. Examples would include over emphasis on appearance, inferences of our group being "the way," as opposed to Christ, and a tendency toward rules and law rather than love.
Upon examination, I found that in my area there was a mix of attitudes and beliefs in both friends and workers. I saw that some were more inclined toward judgmental behavior, others more toward love. Some seemed to promote adulation of workers, others promoted a respect for the ministry and the place it fills. Some focused on the people of our fellowship, others on Christ. Some were open about origins, other not.
There is undoubtedly a diversity of beliefs among us, I so I don't attempt to present a united front. Rather, I have come to the conclusion that we are a group of individuals who are seeking to serve God and follow His Son. In doing so, we meet together and seek to worship God and to encourage each other in our individual relationships with Him. I feel that as a whole, our fellowship has been blessed in this. Coming to meeting does not save us, nor does "professing" in the sense of standing up in a meeting, taking part in meetings and so forth. Rather, each of us is responsible for working out our own salvation with fear and trembling. Others can encourage us and help us in this, but ultimately we each stand before God.
I still feel called to the ministry, and so continue where I am. I am attempting to make every conscious effort to focus on Christ in all aspects of what I teach. I do not attempt to judge others salvation, whether they are part of our fellowship or not. I am open about our origins. I do not preach about appearance, although am glad to discuss it. I attempt to be open to those who are considering professing from outside our group that they will find a broad array of opinions among us about all sorts of things, and that they need to search the scripture for themselves and seek the leading of the Holy Spirit in all things.
I am sad that there have been and still are many problems in these areas among our group, and I have been guilty myself. Furthermore, I still find myself having to be continually careful to not fall in to the same behavior. I don't always succeed in this.
I realize this probably is an overly long response to your question, and perhaps does not answer it well if at all... If it does not, perhaps it is because as I said, I don't feel there is a reconciliation at this point - I agree with the beliefs of some in our group, and disagree with others. In light of this, I simply try to focus on preaching Jesus and the gospel.
I'd like to emphasize again that I am not "the spokesperson" for our fellowship, but rather am attempting to share what I believe.
All the best.
usworker
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member is offline
Joined: Mar 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 5
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Next Level: 45 posts
Re: Why is everybody here?
« Reply #32 on Yesterday at 11:38pm »
________________________________________
Leftshoe - you posted while I was typing, so a quick answer. This is my 12th year, have been the older worker for a couple years. As a younger, I visited a few times with those I felt comfortable with, not often. Now if there is a discussion about who is saved, I simply try to point to Jesus, and refrain from making a judgment. I encourage my younger co-worker to do so, and also the friends. I actively discourage the friends in my field to refrain from putting down other denominations, and focus instead on Jesus.
Recently, someone in our area was speaking in a derogatory manner about Catholics, and I simply stated that I'm not worried about the Catholics teaching a false doctrine. Instead, let's talk about how such a problem might come in to our fellowship.
This is the approach I try to take. If someone asks directly if you have to go to meetings to be saved, I answer that I don't believe so. Rather, I try to point to scripture that does tell us how to be saved.
The Truth (Jesus of course) has never changed:) I don't believe in referring to our group as "The Truth." However, I hope that the beliefs and opinions of many of this fellowship are changing.
usworker
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member is offline
Joined: Mar 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 6
Location: USA
Credits: 6
Next Level: 44 posts
Re: Why is everybody here?
« Reply #42 on Yesterday at 11:43pm »
________________________________________
Thank you to those who have welcomed me.
Cherie, you asked about being open. I have never spoken in meeting about the origins of our particular group. I try to focus on teaching the gospel that Jesus brought in gospel meetings. I try to focus on worship in Sunday morning meeting. In bible study meetings I focus on the study. Convention meetings I would focus on a combination of some of each of the above in some way. If I feel led by The Holy Spirit to speak in a meeting about the origins of our group, I pray that I would be sensitive to that leading and follow it.
Normally, if someone shows an interest in our group and comes to several meetings, we will often try to schedule a time to visit further outside the meeting. If they continue to show interest, at some point I address the issue of origin. In the past I have been guilty of stating "we can trace our fellowship back to a group of people in Ireland around the turn of the century..." but I now realize I was in error, and so mention Irvine by name. I also mention that there was a separation due to differences in belief, specifically that he believed that Christ's return was imminent, and went to Jerusalem to wait for this. I occasionally discuss this with the friends. The most recent was last Sunday on the way to gospel meeting in the car while riding with the friends, and I discussed it today with my companion.
He and I visited about the proper way to present the origins of our group, and agreed that it was important to share with those showing interest that it was William Irvine, as opposed to saying "a group of men, etc"
How do I view Irvine? I really have never given the question much thought. It seems that perhaps his original intentions were correct, but he was obviously wrong about the immediate return of Christ.
I have read quite a bit on TMB, TTT, TLT, and recently read The Church Without A Name by Kathleen Lewis which is available on line. In the early 90's I read one book in print, I believe it was The Secret Sect, but I'm not positive, as it's been awhile.... Sorry, fading memory!
I have tried to give the matter some thought as to our origins, and the controversy. One thing that my companion and I were discussing today is that we have both heard the phrase "this is from the beginning." Depending on what the person is speaking about, I might take it to mean our group, when in fact they meant the teachings of the bible, or the doctrine of Christ. This is a warning to me, in that I want to be as clear as possible as to what I mean when speaking both in and out of meeting.
I'm not in any way suggesting that it has never been denied that Irvine is as far back as our group goes, but rather am attempting to understand how the idea has been perpetuated that there is an unbroken succession back to Jesus.
All the best to each of you.
A worker with credits!
usworker
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member is offline
Joined: Mar 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 5
Location: USA
Credits: 5
Next Level: 45 posts
Re: Why is everybody here?
« Reply #26 on Yesterday at 7:06pm »
________________________________________
Hello everyone. Yes, I am a worker in the US, as my name suggests.
The reason I am here is primarily to read the posts of others and occasionally engage in discussion, all in hopes of better understanding truth as it is in Jesus, and in learning how to implement this truth in my life.
I was b/r in the fellowship. I entered in to the ministry (I prefer this term to "worker") a little over 10 years ago.
I fully acknowledge that William Irvine was the beginning of our particular group. I share this openly with those who take an interest in meetings, and most recently did so about a month ago. I do not believe in Apostolic Succession.
I believe that Jesus is not only the Son of God, but God, as the scripture states, although I do not believe he was God the Father.
I don't believe that you have to hear the workers to be saved. I believe we are saved by the grace of God, through the blood of Jesus Christ. Jesus is the way, not his people.
While I believe that meeting in the homes is scriptural, I do not believe that not doing so bars a person from salvation.
I certainly do not believe that workers or friends are infallible.
Hmm, what else? I'm listing all these things because I anticipate that they are some of the initial questions that I might be asked. I'm not sure if this is the place to have posted them, being new to this. If not, I apologize.
I have tried to read through all of the previous posts before registering myself. Have also read a lot on TMB, never posted, but feel this board is more civil in nature.
I don't know how often I will be posting, but will from time to time. Please realize that when I do post that my writing does not represent the teaching or beliefs of all in our fellowship, and in fact may be in direct opposition to some or many in our group.
At this time, I wish to remain anonymous for personal reasons, although this may change in the future.
I wish each of you the best in your spiritual progress, as we seek to follow Jesus!
usworker
New Member
member is offline
Joined: Mar 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 5
Location: USA
Credits: 5
Next Level: 45 posts
Re: Why is everybody here?
« Reply #31 on Yesterday at 11:25pm »
________________________________________
Thank you for the warm welcome, Selah and Juliette!
Ilylo - your question is a legitimate one. To be frank, I don't feel that there is reconciliation between the two at this point. Yes, I'm familiar with cognitive dissonance:)
A little background might help. I professed when I was nine, at a convention. Obviously, I did not understand much at that age about what professing meant, but felt moved in my heart to do so. I was baptized at the age of fourteen. I don't believe I truly understood much about baptism either, but felt it was the next step in my walk with God.
During my childhood, youth, and in to early adulthood I believed that our fellowship was "the only way." I believed that if you did not go to meetings, you did not have salvation. This came from both direct teaching and inference by workers and friends.
I also believed during this time that there was some unbroken chain in our group from Jesus until now. Then, during the late 80's and early 90's there were several friends in our area who left our group due to learning about William Irvine being the founder. They felt that they had been lied to about the origins of our group.
This experience was traumatic for me, as one family that left included my closest male friend, and my ex girlfriend whom I had dated for a long time. There were many discussions and arguments over many things, but I ultimately came away believing that William Irvine started our fellowship as we know it. However, I believe that "The Way" which is Jesus, was from the beginning, before the foundation of the world. I don't believe that Irvine has any effect on my personal relationship with God, let alone on my salvation.
I am not aware of any group that can trace themselves directly back to Jesus, so if this is necessary for salvation, where does that leave us?
I began to think about the work several years before offering, then eventually did so after a one year waiting period. When I started, and through my first years in the work, I believed that unless you went to meetings you were unsaved. A tenuous position of course, not to mention judgmental.
Then, I began to realize over a period of time that I did not agree with a number of things that I heard being taught or expressed by others. Examples would include over emphasis on appearance, inferences of our group being "the way," as opposed to Christ, and a tendency toward rules and law rather than love.
Upon examination, I found that in my area there was a mix of attitudes and beliefs in both friends and workers. I saw that some were more inclined toward judgmental behavior, others more toward love. Some seemed to promote adulation of workers, others promoted a respect for the ministry and the place it fills. Some focused on the people of our fellowship, others on Christ. Some were open about origins, other not.
There is undoubtedly a diversity of beliefs among us, I so I don't attempt to present a united front. Rather, I have come to the conclusion that we are a group of individuals who are seeking to serve God and follow His Son. In doing so, we meet together and seek to worship God and to encourage each other in our individual relationships with Him. I feel that as a whole, our fellowship has been blessed in this. Coming to meeting does not save us, nor does "professing" in the sense of standing up in a meeting, taking part in meetings and so forth. Rather, each of us is responsible for working out our own salvation with fear and trembling. Others can encourage us and help us in this, but ultimately we each stand before God.
I still feel called to the ministry, and so continue where I am. I am attempting to make every conscious effort to focus on Christ in all aspects of what I teach. I do not attempt to judge others salvation, whether they are part of our fellowship or not. I am open about our origins. I do not preach about appearance, although am glad to discuss it. I attempt to be open to those who are considering professing from outside our group that they will find a broad array of opinions among us about all sorts of things, and that they need to search the scripture for themselves and seek the leading of the Holy Spirit in all things.
I am sad that there have been and still are many problems in these areas among our group, and I have been guilty myself. Furthermore, I still find myself having to be continually careful to not fall in to the same behavior. I don't always succeed in this.
I realize this probably is an overly long response to your question, and perhaps does not answer it well if at all... If it does not, perhaps it is because as I said, I don't feel there is a reconciliation at this point - I agree with the beliefs of some in our group, and disagree with others. In light of this, I simply try to focus on preaching Jesus and the gospel.
I'd like to emphasize again that I am not "the spokesperson" for our fellowship, but rather am attempting to share what I believe.
All the best.
usworker
New Member
member is offline
Joined: Mar 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 5
Location: USA
Credits: 5
Next Level: 45 posts
Re: Why is everybody here?
« Reply #32 on Yesterday at 11:38pm »
________________________________________
Leftshoe - you posted while I was typing, so a quick answer. This is my 12th year, have been the older worker for a couple years. As a younger, I visited a few times with those I felt comfortable with, not often. Now if there is a discussion about who is saved, I simply try to point to Jesus, and refrain from making a judgment. I encourage my younger co-worker to do so, and also the friends. I actively discourage the friends in my field to refrain from putting down other denominations, and focus instead on Jesus.
Recently, someone in our area was speaking in a derogatory manner about Catholics, and I simply stated that I'm not worried about the Catholics teaching a false doctrine. Instead, let's talk about how such a problem might come in to our fellowship.
This is the approach I try to take. If someone asks directly if you have to go to meetings to be saved, I answer that I don't believe so. Rather, I try to point to scripture that does tell us how to be saved.
The Truth (Jesus of course) has never changed:) I don't believe in referring to our group as "The Truth." However, I hope that the beliefs and opinions of many of this fellowship are changing.
usworker
New Member
member is offline
Joined: Mar 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 6
Location: USA
Credits: 6
Next Level: 44 posts
Re: Why is everybody here?
« Reply #42 on Yesterday at 11:43pm »
________________________________________
Thank you to those who have welcomed me.
Cherie, you asked about being open. I have never spoken in meeting about the origins of our particular group. I try to focus on teaching the gospel that Jesus brought in gospel meetings. I try to focus on worship in Sunday morning meeting. In bible study meetings I focus on the study. Convention meetings I would focus on a combination of some of each of the above in some way. If I feel led by The Holy Spirit to speak in a meeting about the origins of our group, I pray that I would be sensitive to that leading and follow it.
Normally, if someone shows an interest in our group and comes to several meetings, we will often try to schedule a time to visit further outside the meeting. If they continue to show interest, at some point I address the issue of origin. In the past I have been guilty of stating "we can trace our fellowship back to a group of people in Ireland around the turn of the century..." but I now realize I was in error, and so mention Irvine by name. I also mention that there was a separation due to differences in belief, specifically that he believed that Christ's return was imminent, and went to Jerusalem to wait for this. I occasionally discuss this with the friends. The most recent was last Sunday on the way to gospel meeting in the car while riding with the friends, and I discussed it today with my companion.
He and I visited about the proper way to present the origins of our group, and agreed that it was important to share with those showing interest that it was William Irvine, as opposed to saying "a group of men, etc"
How do I view Irvine? I really have never given the question much thought. It seems that perhaps his original intentions were correct, but he was obviously wrong about the immediate return of Christ.
I have read quite a bit on TMB, TTT, TLT, and recently read The Church Without A Name by Kathleen Lewis which is available on line. In the early 90's I read one book in print, I believe it was The Secret Sect, but I'm not positive, as it's been awhile.... Sorry, fading memory!
I have tried to give the matter some thought as to our origins, and the controversy. One thing that my companion and I were discussing today is that we have both heard the phrase "this is from the beginning." Depending on what the person is speaking about, I might take it to mean our group, when in fact they meant the teachings of the bible, or the doctrine of Christ. This is a warning to me, in that I want to be as clear as possible as to what I mean when speaking both in and out of meeting.
I'm not in any way suggesting that it has never been denied that Irvine is as far back as our group goes, but rather am attempting to understand how the idea has been perpetuated that there is an unbroken succession back to Jesus.
All the best to each of you.