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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2014 13:39:43 GMT -5
Hubby and I saw God's Not Dead last week, and loved it! I would highly recommend it. I don't have any issues with him, but if you don't like the Duck Dynasty guy, no worries...he's only in the movie one time and it's only for like 5 minutes or less. The Newsboys appearance at the end of the movie is really great, if you like them. I've always been a fan of theirs, but am even more so after seeing the movie... I haven't seen any of the other movies mentioned in this thread yet...don't have any plans or desire to see Noah...not sure about Heaven Is For Real yet. Wouldn't mind seeing Son of God eventually...
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Post by rational on Apr 17, 2014 14:10:11 GMT -5
Wouldn't mind seeing Son of God eventually... Isn't that the quest of all christians?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2014 15:05:25 GMT -5
Why yes, rational...it is.
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Post by rational on Apr 17, 2014 15:13:14 GMT -5
Why yes, rational...it is. :) Well since you seemed to have some doubts regarding heaven ( not sure about Heaven Is For Real yet.) and somewhat lackadaisical about seeing Jesus ( Wouldn't mind seeing Son of God eventually...) that I thought it was worth the reminder.
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Post by xna on Apr 17, 2014 15:19:47 GMT -5
Why yes, rational...it is. Well since you seemed to have some doubts regarding heaven ( not sure about Heaven Is For Real yet.) and somewhat lackadaisical about seeing Jesus ( Wouldn't mind seeing Son of God eventually...) that I thought it was worth the reminder. It's a simple message, I don't understand someone with the user name RATIONAL has such a hard time with the big picture. -
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2014 15:24:54 GMT -5
Why yes, rational...it is. Well since you seemed to have some doubts regarding heaven ( not sure about Heaven Is For Real yet.) and somewhat lackadaisical about seeing Jesus ( Wouldn't mind seeing Son of God eventually...) that I thought it was worth the reminder. Yes, as I'm sure you know, that's exactly what I meant by my post. But thanks for the reminder...means a lot coming from you...
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Post by faune on Apr 17, 2014 18:26:55 GMT -5
Hubby and I saw God's Not Dead last week, and loved it! I would highly recommend it. I don't have any issues with him, but if you don't like the Duck Dynasty guy, no worries...he's only in the movie one time and it's only for like 5 minutes or less. The Newsboys appearance at the end of the movie is really great, if you like them. I've always been a fan of theirs, but am even more so after seeing the movie... I haven't seen any of the other movies mentioned in this thread yet...don't have any plans or desire to see Noah...not sure about Heaven Is For Real yet. Wouldn't mind seeing Son of God eventually... Beth ~ Thanks for the update on the Duck Dynasty guy. If it's only 5 minutes in the movie, I guess it would be worth seeing for me probably this weekend. I also like the Newboys as a group, since they once performed at my Baptist mega-church in the past and the tickets got sold out fast. However, I would highly recommend "Son of God" which is an excellently done movie. I was very impressed with it and liked it a whole lot more than Noah, which was pretty sensationalized due to the subject matter. Honestly, all those snakes going into the ark really turned me off, too!
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Post by rational on Apr 18, 2014 7:29:40 GMT -5
Well since you seemed to have some doubts regarding heaven ( not sure about Heaven Is For Real yet.) and somewhat lackadaisical about seeing Jesus ( Wouldn't mind seeing Son of God eventually...) that I thought it was worth the reminder. It's a simple message, I don't understand someone with the user name RATIONAL has such a hard time with the big picture. -;) I think the simplicity of the message was the problem. And given my penchant to over/under simplify/complicate these situations it all becomes so confusing.
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Post by xna on Apr 18, 2014 15:46:59 GMT -5
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Post by dmmichgood on Apr 18, 2014 16:41:03 GMT -5
thanks for that article. It explains a lot.
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Post by sunshine on Apr 21, 2014 18:32:03 GMT -5
It sounds like "Heaven is for Real" will cause a lot of people to think about God and heaven. I think that is a wonderful thing. I haven't seen it, but just watching the trailer caused me to think about heaven in a more real way. It also reinforced the thinking that those in the "truth" aren't the only ones who will be in heaven.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2014 18:36:20 GMT -5
i agree because of these verses:
Mar 9:38 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us. Mar 9:39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. Mar 9:40 For he that is not against us is on our part.
Rev_5:11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;
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Post by sunshine on Apr 21, 2014 18:45:04 GMT -5
i agree because of these verses: Mar 9:38 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us. Mar 9:39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. Mar 9:40 For he that is not against us is on our part. Rev_5:11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands; I thought of those verses too "he that is not against us is for us".
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Post by xna on May 5, 2014 11:16:04 GMT -5
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Post by rational on May 8, 2014 15:57:51 GMT -5
Paul's own testimony and his epistles.... PROVED Jesus exists as a human being. How is that proof? He never met Jesus.Paul claims he had seen Jesus. It carries about the same level of proof as your other stories.
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Post by rational on May 8, 2014 19:14:39 GMT -5
How is that proof? He never met Jesus.Paul claims he had seen Jesus. It carries about the same level of proof as your other stories. Like I wrote MANY times in the past. So, let me repeat it again and show you where Paul SAW Jesus and TALKED to him in person!He saw heard Jesus voice from heaven in Acts 9. Paul SAW Jesus and He TALKED to him in person in Acts 22:17-21 “When I returned to Jerusalem and was praying at the temple, I fell into a trance and saw the Lord speaking to me. ‘Quick!’ he said. ‘Leave Jerusalem immediately, because the people here will not accept your testimony about me.’
“Lord," I replied, "these people know that I went from one synagogue to another to imprison and beat those who believe in you. And when the blood of your martyr Stephen was shed, I stood there giving my approval and guarding the clothes of those who were killing him." Then the Lord said to me, "Go! I will send you far away to the Gentiles.”~~ If Jesus didn't exist then WHO did Paul SEE and Talked to? In Acts 9 that Lord claim He was Jesus himself!One night I fell into a trance and a blue ostrich spoke to me and said to sell my Exron stock yesterday. If the ostrich didn't exist who did I see and talk to? Nathan, there have been news reports of people who said they killed their children because Jesus told them to. People have said it is true. The children are dead. It must have been Jesus. No parent would kill their children unless they were 100% certain that they were talking to Jesus.
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Post by findingtruth on May 8, 2014 20:08:56 GMT -5
One night I fell into a trance and a blue ostrich spoke to me and said to sell my Exron stock yesterday. If the ostrich didn't exist who did I see and talk to? Nathan, there have been news reports of people who said they killed their children because Jesus told them to. People have said it is true. The children are dead. It must have been Jesus. No parent would kill their children unless they were 100% certain that they were talking to Jesus. We know Jesus exists because we have his teachings, his birth, his life, death and resurrection. We have too many eyewitnesses who saw Jesus. His mother, brothers, sisters, disciples, the Pharisees, Roman governor officials, soldiers, who He healed and helped.Paul wrote in I Cor. 15:1-14 The Resurrection of Christ Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas, and then to the Twelve. After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.
For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them—yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me. Whether, then, it is I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed. The Resurrection of the Dead But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14 And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. Rational, I believe in Jesus and Paul's testimony! My Hope and Salvation is believing and trusting in my Lord God and Savior Jesus. You don't anything better to offer. I don't believe my soul will END/Vanish after death. I know you believe after death you just gone forever. Well, I hope you are right, because I don't want you to taste what is SECOND death is like.Nathan, your post makes no sense. First you say you believe in life after death and then you state that you hope rational is "right" about being gone forever because you don't want him to taste a 2nd death. 1) Do you really hope there is nothing after this life as you suggest? If not, why would you even make that comment? 2) Are you judging rational's outcome after death? As you know, Jesus made it clear that we are not to judge others.
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Post by findingtruth on May 8, 2014 20:37:02 GMT -5
FT wrote: Nathan, your post makes no sense. First you say you believe in life after death and then you state that you hope rational is "right" about being gone forever because you don't want him to taste a 2nd death. 1) Do you really hope there is nothing after this life as you suggest? If not, why would you even make that comment? ~~ I KNOW Life continues after this earthly life is ended, for believers and non-believers. 2) Are you judging rational's outcome after death? As you know, Jesus made it clear that we are not to judge others. Jesus said Judge with righteous judgment... Rational doesn't believe in life after death. So, What I am saying is....... there's second death after this life for those who rejected God's gift of Salvation through accept and believing in Jesus. Just a warning of what to come for those who refuse in God's eternal life gift.I don't believe "righteous judgment" empowers another to determine the eternal outcome of another individual. Do you? If so, where do you find a biblical definition for righteous judgment that implies this?
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2014 20:46:19 GMT -5
FT wrote: Nathan, your post makes no sense. First you say you believe in life after death and then you state that you hope rational is "right" about being gone forever because you don't want him to taste a 2nd death. 1) Do you really hope there is nothing after this life as you suggest? If not, why would you even make that comment? ~~ I KNOW Life continues after this earthly life is ended, for believers and non-believers. 2) Are you judging rational's outcome after death? As you know, Jesus made it clear that we are not to judge others. Jesus said Judge with righteous judgment... Rational doesn't believe in life after death. So, What I am saying is....... there's second death after this life for those who rejected God's gift of Salvation through accept and believing in Jesus. Just a warning of what to come for those who refuse in God's eternal life gift.I don't believe "righteous judgment" empowers another to determine the eternal outcome of another individual. Do you? If so, where do you find a biblical definition for righteous judgment that implies this? you can judge right or wrong of a matter... Luk_12:57 Yea, and why even of yourselves judge ye not what is right? Joh_7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment. 1Co_6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 1Co_6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? 1Co_6:5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?
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Post by What Hat on May 8, 2014 21:25:11 GMT -5
I don't believe "righteous judgment" empowers another to determine the eternal outcome of another individual. Do you? If so, where do you find a biblical definition for righteous judgment that implies this? you can judge right or wrong of a matter... Luk_12:57 Yea, and why even of yourselves judge ye not what is right? Joh_7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment. 1Co_6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 1Co_6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? 1Co_6:5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren? Right or wrong of a matter pertaining to this life. Certainly, otherwise how could you right a wrong. However, the final judgement is in the hands of God alone.
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Post by What Hat on May 8, 2014 21:55:34 GMT -5
I don't believe "righteous judgment" empowers another to determine the eternal outcome of another individual. Do you? If so, where do you find a biblical definition for righteous judgment that implies this? ~~ I'm just sharing what the Bible and Jesus teach.... People is judged by the choices they make and decide in this life. The future of people eternal destiny is decided here on this side of life. There is a SECOND death to face for those who reject God's gift of eternal life through accepting/believing in Jesus as the Redeemer/Savior.
Revelation 20:12-15 And I/John saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the SECOND! death. Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.
So the verse seems to say - 1) Hades (or Hell) is not eternal. Because Hades will give up the dead that are in it. 2) Hades and Death will also see an end, that is, they'll be consumed in the lake of fire. Revelations 20:15 speaks of those consumed in the lake of fire; those whose names were not in the book of life. But Revelations 20:12 says that those whose names are in the book of life will be judged according to their works. Let's summarize. If your name is in the book of life, you'll be plucked out of death or Hell and judged according to your works. If your name is not in the book of life, then you'll die a second death, along with the end of death and Hell.
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Post by What Hat on May 8, 2014 22:06:18 GMT -5
Right or wrong of a matter pertaining to this life. Certainly, otherwise how could you right a wrong. However, the final judgement is in the hands of God alone. Right is when you believe in Jesus as your Savior in this life. Wrong, when you reject to believe in Jesus eternal life gift of Salvation... After death is too late to make the wrong.... Right. There is NO second chance of Salvation after this life is over. On the Judgment day... Levels of Punishment is to be given out to the non-believers who face the second death= cast into the lake of fire to endure sufferings and pains through an endless eternity.If those that enter the lake of fire endure, then death and hell would endure. But the Bible clearly says that those thrown into the lake of fire experience a second Death. What happens when you throw things into a fire? They disappear. See also 1 Cor 3:11-15. Also, Jesus came to save all mankind, not just those who believe. Most of Earth's inhabitants have never had a chance to hear the gospel of Jesus, so believing does give us tremendous liberty, but not believing is not "wrong" and believing does not make one "right".
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2014 22:14:25 GMT -5
if one is simply gonna disappear after doing evil whats the big deal? as they say eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die...
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Post by What Hat on May 8, 2014 22:25:35 GMT -5
if one is simply gonna disappear after doing evil whats the big deal? as they say eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die... Are you saying that the only reason you follow Christ is out of fear? That is, if there is no eternal torment there would be no point in serving Christ? There are plenty of people who have never been brought up in a Christian home, who know nothing of Jesus Christ, and yet, they find more purpose in their lives, doing good as best they can, and not merely trying to enjoy themselves. How much more purpose should one who knows Christ find in life, regardless of what happens to the lost in Eternity. Let's say that you came to the end of life. You have served Christ as best you could, and others who have not are also saved, just as you are. Will this bring you joy, or are you going to be like the Master's Son when the Prodigal returns?
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Post by What Hat on May 8, 2014 22:29:32 GMT -5
If those that enter the lake of fire endure, then death and hell would endure. But the Bible clearly says that those thrown into the lake of fire experience a second Death. What happens when you throw things into a fire? They disappear. See also 1 Cor 3:11-15. ~~~ gold does NOT destroy in the fire.... the fire can't kill/destroy the spirits. The fire tells us the pains and suffering when we get burn in the fire.Also, Jesus came to save all mankind, not just those who believe. Most of Earth's inhabitants have never had a chance to hear the gospel of Jesus, so believing does give us tremendous liberty, but not believing is not "wrong" and believing does not make one "right". ~~~ God is the righteous judge. He will judge us by how much truth we know whether in nature, by our conscious, or reading, and hearing the words of God.I also believe the underlined, but this contradicts what you said about believing in the salvation of Jesus personally. As fixit said, we don't control what we believe, we come to believe things based on the evidence given to us. Two statements - 1) Right is when you believe in Jesus as your Savior in this life. Wrong, when you reject to believe in Jesus eternal life gift of Salvation. 2) He will judge us by how much truth we know whether in nature, by our conscious, or reading, and hearing the words of God. What does "reject to believe" mean? For example, Bertrand Russell, a famous atheist, and also a very good man, was asked how he would answer if brought before the throne of judgement after his death. He simply said that he would say, "not enough evidence". Is that "rejecting to believe"? It sounds like a sincere statement and sincere conclusion to me; clearly the man never had a revelation. So will God judge Bertrand Russell according to statement (1) or statement (2)?
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Post by What Hat on May 8, 2014 22:35:35 GMT -5
if one is simply gonna disappear after doing evil whats the big deal? as they say eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die... Amen, Wally.... If one is simply going to disappear in the second death... then Jesus purpose come to earth, died a horrible death on Calvary's Cross is invain! Jesus came down from heaven and died for our sins so Christians will NOT be thrown into that lake of fire= eternal pains and sufferings... The Second Death!
The Lake of fire was prepared for Satan and 1/3 of the fallen angels, the false prophets and their followers..... But people are free to go there when they refuse accept His gift of Salvation.... ALL they have to do is to accept and believe in Jesus' death on Calvary's Cross which atone for their sins/Second Death/Pains, Sufferings for Eternity.
There is no Salvation or second chance for Satan and the fallen angels. They know the Lake of fire is their punishment so they are going to take many people with them in the Lake of fire. The Bible (The book of Revelation 12:7-9) John the apostle wrote: There WAS a War/Rebellion in heaven, Michael and his angels fought against the Dragon/Serpent with his/Satan angels prevail NOT; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And that great Dragon was cast out, that OLD Serpent, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world: he was cast out into the EARTH, and his angels were cast out with him And his tail drew the THIRD part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the EARTH.
The book of Jude 1: 6 And the angels who kept NOT their position of authority, but LEFT their own habitation, God has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. And I will ask you the same question. Are you saying that the only reason you follow Christ is out of fear? That is, if there is no eternal torment there would be no point in serving Christ? There are plenty of people who have never been brought up in a Christian home, who know nothing of Jesus Christ, and yet, they find more purpose in their lives, doing good as best they can, and not merely trying to enjoy themselves. How much more purpose should one who knows Christ find in life, regardless of what happens to the lost in Eternity. Let's say that you came to the end of life. You have served Christ as best you could, and others who have not are also saved, just as you are. Will this bring you joy, or are you going to be like the Master's Son was when the Prodigal returned? Are you going to say, hey, I served you my whole life, and this fellow who has done nothing, who did not believe as I did, is going to share in the same joy. I thought you were going to cast that fellow into eternal torment and that's what kept me going all these years.
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2014 22:38:56 GMT -5
if one is simply gonna disappear after doing evil whats the big deal? as they say eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die... Are you saying that the only reason you follow Christ is out of fear? That is, if there is no eternal torment there would be no point in serving Christ? There are plenty of people who have never been brought up in a Christian home, who know nothing of Jesus Christ, and yet, they find more purpose in their lives, doing good as best they can, and not merely trying to enjoy themselves. How much more purpose should one who knows Christ find in life, regardless of what happens to the lost in Eternity. Let's say that you came to the end of life. You have served Christ as best you could, and others who have not are also saved, just as you are. Will this bring you joy, or are you going to be like the Master's Son when the Prodigal returns? we are suppose to fear and love God...i doubt seriously that the Lord will be allowing unbelievers into heaven along with the saved its not the same as the prodigal son...the prodigal son made an effort to come back to his father and repented of what he did...prodigals i have no problem with at all...or even the laborer getting his penny for working less hours than the others is fine with me...
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Post by What Hat on May 8, 2014 22:43:45 GMT -5
Are you saying that the only reason you follow Christ is out of fear? That is, if there is no eternal torment there would be no point in serving Christ? There are plenty of people who have never been brought up in a Christian home, who know nothing of Jesus Christ, and yet, they find more purpose in their lives, doing good as best they can, and not merely trying to enjoy themselves. How much more purpose should one who knows Christ find in life, regardless of what happens to the lost in Eternity. Let's say that you came to the end of life. You have served Christ as best you could, and others who have not are also saved, just as you are. Will this bring you joy, or are you going to be like the Master's Son when the Prodigal returns? we are suppose to fear and love God... Well, we are supposed to fear God and keep his commandments. But perfect love casts out fear, and in love there is no fear. I'm going to have to turn in and it's too late to reconcile those two verses in my mind. However, #2 is the more powerful idea, I think.
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