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Post by christiansburg on Mar 21, 2014 19:25:41 GMT -5
You might as well throw out the whole bible if you don't believe in angels.They were and still are an integral part of Gods peoples experience ken Absolutely. I certainly do believe in angels and feel their presence but don't know just how to explain or put in words such great things!!!
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Post by BobWilliston on Mar 21, 2014 20:36:10 GMT -5
I've never met any, nor do I know of anyone who has met one. Bob Perhaps you don't have a wide enough circle of friends? ken Actually I've gotten rid of the ones who claimed they had angels looking over them. I, apparently, was the enemy.
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Post by BobWilliston on Mar 21, 2014 20:39:14 GMT -5
A guy at work told me a bit about angels and I'd like some help on this as I cannot verify it in the bible. Maybe I'm blind. He said that one third of Gods angels were cast out of heaven when God cast Satan out. These are now Satans angels. The demons in the chap living in the graveyard are actually Satans angels. As I said, I'm a bit stumped on this one. Has anyone got some biblical proof that this is so? Dante's Inferno may clarify a lot of this.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2014 21:55:59 GMT -5
Dante certainly had a way with words. I really enjoyed the Maelstrom but haven't read the Inferno yet.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2014 22:03:15 GMT -5
NathanB, I would like to take you on a wee tour down some caves in New Zealand to show you the stalactites, stalacmites and limestone flows. We could also have a look at some cliff faces in the mountains and marvel at the different bands of rock. Then there is a wee place in the North Island which has a layer of coal, then a layer of limestone laid down on top of it and to top it all off (no pun intended) a volcano has punched straight through both layers and left us some andesite. Then we could sit down over a nice cup of tea and you could tell me again how all this happened.
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Post by faune on Mar 21, 2014 22:07:30 GMT -5
A guy at work told me a bit about angels and I'd like some help on this as I cannot verify it in the bible. Maybe I'm blind. He said that one third of Gods angels were cast out of heaven when God cast Satan out. These are now Satans angels. The demons in the chap living in the graveyard are actually Satans angels. As I said, I'm a bit stumped on this one. Has anyone got some biblical proof that this is so? www.gotquestions.org/one-third-angels.html Wobblyboot ~ Wally provided the source above and here's an excerpt from that article. it appears that Revelation 12:3-9 gives the scriptural reference you requested?
www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Rev%2012%3A3-Rev%2012%3A9&version=AMP
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2014 22:09:37 GMT -5
Thanks Faune, I read that earlier and found it very interesting and explained a lot. I'm still thinking about the Demons though and how they are actually Satans angels.
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Post by faune on Mar 21, 2014 22:46:21 GMT -5
Thanks Faune, I read that earlier and found it very interesting and explained a lot. I'm still thinking about the Demons though and how they are actually Satans angels. Wobblyboot ~ When you find an answer to that one, let me know? BTW, have you ever read "The 12th Planet" (Book I of the Earth Chronicles) by Zecharia Sitchin. Snow put me on to this book, which was a best seller a few years back. I've just started reading it. It deals with the early Sumerian legends that are thought to contribute to the Genesis account within the Bible. If you like science fiction, you would enjoy this book. However, some people take it pretty seriously. Here's a really good article to check out that deals with angels, demons, and Satan and really goes into extensive detail on this subject found throughout the Bible. When you consider that even Billy Graham, who wrote a book on Angels, had a hard time explaining what the Bible has to say along these lines, you'll realize that you don't stand alone in your bewilderment over these beings.
www.theology.edu/theology/angel.htm (Article on angels, demons, and Satan)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8wKKIRnXxI (The 12th Planet ~ complete audio book)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qmj5mhDwJQ (Noah ~ Movie Trailer 2014)
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Post by faune on Mar 21, 2014 23:05:14 GMT -5
Thanks Faune, I read that earlier and found it very interesting and explained a lot. I'm still thinking about the Demons though and how they are actually Satans angels. ~~ Apostolic fathers teachings about Demons:(Genesis 6:4) There were Giants on the earth in those days, and also AFTERWARD, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore Children to them. Those were mighty men who were of old, men of renown. ~~ Justin Martyr (160 A.D.) The angels transgressed this appointment and were captived by love of women and they begat Children/Giants, who are called DEMONS. ~~ Athenagoras (170 A.D.) These angels, then, who have fallen from heaven, and haunt the air and the earth, and are no longer able to rise to heavenly things, and the souls of the Giants, who are the DEMONS, who wander about the world. Furthermore, certain angels who fell of their own free will, there sprang a more wicked demon brood, condemned of God along with the authors of their race. Their great business is the ruin of mankind. So, from the start, spiritual wickedness sought our destruction. Accordingly, they inflict upon our bodies diseases and other grievous calamities. ~~ Commodianus (248 A.D.) From the seed of the fallen angels and women, Giants are said to have been born. By them, arts were made known in the earth. They taught the dyeing of wool and everything that is done. When they DIED, men erected images to them. Yet, because they were of an evil seed, the Almighty did NOT approve of their being brought back from death when they had died. For that reason, they wander and they now subvert many bodies. And it is these whom the pagans presently worship and pray to as gods. ~~ Lactanius (303-313) The Giants who were born from the relations of angels with women were neither angels nor men, but had a MIXED nature---- were NOT admitted into hades when they died. Similarly, their fallen angels fathers had NOT been admitted into heaven, either. Thus there came to be TWO kinds of demons: One of heaven, the other of the earth. The latter are the wicked spirits, who are the authors of all the EVILS that are done. These wicked spirits were the inventors of astrology, soothsaying, divination, those production that are called oracles, the art of magic. ~~ Origen (225 A.D.) Now, of the wicked spirits, there is a two fold mode of operation. Sometimes they take complete and entire possession of the mind, so as NOT to allow their captives the power of either understanding or feeling. For example, this is the case with those who are commonly called "Possessed" whom we see to be deprived of reason. At other times, these evil forces use their wicked suggestions to deprave a conscious and intelligent souls with thoughts of various kinds---- Persuading it to do evil. Judas is an illustration of this. ~~ Aliens are really demons, demonic fallen angels, Satan plan to mislead man www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLqrTKZFX30&feature=related Nathan ~ Thanks for that historical information from the teachings of the Early Church Fathers relating to this topic. I bet you would really enjoy that audio book I recommended, "The 12th Planet," by Zecharia Sitchins or perhaps you have already read it yourself by now? This is the first book in a series by this author. Quite a fascinating read that will keep your attention with your fascination with the Nephilim account found in Genesis 6:4.
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Post by dmmichgood on Mar 21, 2014 23:21:39 GMT -5
To answer your question there were angels in that van with me that day. I felt them and I heard them. I walked away after rolling it 2 and 1/2 times and walked away. the old man that ran down the hill fully expected to find someone dead or badly injured, he asked me if I was ok and I said just cold it was very cold out at 7am when I wrecked. I audibly heard a voice say, you are not going to die but this is going to hurt..I felt/saw my step dad, my grandpa, my son and my friend's son and felt their presence with me I always think of them as my guardian angels, maybe that is just the form angels take around me, because it comforts me I don't know, but I do know that angels exist and one of my favorite verses in the Bible is the one about being careful for we never know when we might be entertaining angels so I do believe they come in physical form sometimes to test us. A bit like a time that my husband was on the way to Sunday morning meeting and as he turned round a curve on a country road he saw a car upside down in the ditch.
He said he was sure that he would find someone dead within. However, when he approached the car he was surprised to see a woman still in her safety belt but upside down and holding her baby and asked him to take her baby through the window. Neither she nor the baby were hurt.
She didn't make any comment about a guardian angel, supernatural or otherwise. I'm sure my husband didn't think of himself as being any kind of angel.
Perhaps if one believes in "angels" of the supernatural kind to begin with, one's mind can conjure up one fairly quickly.
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Post by dmmichgood on Mar 21, 2014 23:25:15 GMT -5
NathanB said They are here among us in human forms just like in the Old Testament and New Testament time. They have been Working with the US Naval Intelligence and with our Scientists since 1930s. To prove to US government and other nations, they are the GOOD guys! They are HERE to help mankind. If they are working for the US naval Intelligence is there a chance that they are Satans angels?
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Post by faune on Mar 21, 2014 23:58:51 GMT -5
To answer your question there were angels in that van with me that day. I felt them and I heard them. I walked away after rolling it 2 and 1/2 times and walked away. the old man that ran down the hill fully expected to find someone dead or badly injured, he asked me if I was ok and I said just cold it was very cold out at 7am when I wrecked. I audibly heard a voice say, you are not going to die but this is going to hurt..I felt/saw my step dad, my grandpa, my son and my friend's son and felt their presence with me I always think of them as my guardian angels, maybe that is just the form angels take around me, because it comforts me I don't know, but I do know that angels exist and one of my favorite verses in the Bible is the one about being careful for we never know when we might be entertaining angels so I do believe they come in physical form sometimes to test us. A bit like a time that my husband was on the way to Sunday morning meeting and as he turned round a curve on a country road he saw a car upside down in the ditch.
He said he was sure that he would find someone dead within. However, when he approached the car he was surprised to see a woman still in her safety belt but upside down and holding her baby and asked him to take her baby through the window. Neither she nor the baby were hurt.
She didn't make any comment about a guardian angel, supernatural or otherwise. I'm sure my husband didn't think of himself as being any kind of angel.
Perhaps if one believes in "angels" of the supernatural kind to begin with, one's mind can conjure up one fairly quickly.
Dmmichgood ~ Perhaps God used your husband that day to be like a guardian angel on the scene when she needed help? Reminds me of the story of Ananias and Paul in Acts 9:10-22 ~ perfect timing!
www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+9%3A10-22&version=AMP
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Post by dmmichgood on Mar 22, 2014 1:14:35 GMT -5
A bit like a time that my husband was on the way to Sunday morning meeting and as he turned round a curve on a country road he saw a car upside down in the ditch.
He said he was sure that he would find someone dead within. However, when he approached the car he was surprised to see a woman still in her safety belt but upside down and holding her baby and asked him to take her baby through the window. Neither she nor the baby were hurt.
She didn't make any comment about a guardian angel, supernatural or otherwise. I'm sure my husband didn't think of himself as being any kind of angel.
Perhaps if one believes in "angels" of the supernatural kind to begin with, one's mind can conjure up one fairly quickly.
Dmmichgood ~ Perhaps God used your husband that day to be like a guardian angel on the scene when she needed help? Reminds me of the story of Ananias and Paul in Acts 9:10-22 ~ perfect timing!
www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+9%3A10-22&version=AMP
Ah! but, faune, my husband didn't consider himself an "angel" in the supernatural kind of angel!
I think he would have laughed at the idea of being a guardian angel!
Even though he was a Christian, I'm sure he didn't think that god was using him as any kind of angel that day! He would have seen it simply as he just happened to come by at the usual time that he went by on the way to meeting. (not the "perfect time")
If you believe something like supernatural beings as angels, it is easy to immediately start believing they are there!
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Post by faune on Mar 22, 2014 1:45:55 GMT -5
Dmmichgood ~ What I meant to say was that God can use just regular average folks or even Christians to do His bidding and save the day. You don't have to be an angel to do that. However, to that gal in the upside car, I'm sure your husband seemed like a guardian angel to her that day. Hopefully, it's clearer now? Honestly, I need to go to bed ~ Good Night and Sweet Dreams!
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Post by lilwolfmisty on Mar 22, 2014 2:55:23 GMT -5
You say what you want dmmichgood I know what I heard and felt so you have your doubts I have none anymore and when you start being grateful and looking for everyday miracles the world becomes a much nicer place to live
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Post by faune on Mar 22, 2014 9:15:39 GMT -5
You say what you want dmmichgood I know what I heard and felt so you have your doubts I have none anymore and when you start being grateful and looking for everyday miracles the world becomes a much nicer place to live Lilwolfmisty ~ I agree with what you said about " looking for everyday miracles, the world becomes a much nicer place to live." The daily news is filled with disasters happening all over the world, but the everyday miracles don't seem to make national news that much. However, I have been seen a few inspiring stories these days that really impressed me. In fact, I noticed a sub-group under Internet news on Yahoo a while back that deals with every day inspiring stories. I needed a lift that day, so checked it out for some inspiration. I enjoyed seeing some of those videos and reading the articles, which restores my faith in angels and a Creator God or Higher Power looking out for His creation. Who's to say that Dmmichgood's husband wasn't directed by the Holy Spirit to look in the direction of that upside-down car and motivated to help? Since I have a similar story to your own, I can understand your faith in God and guardian angels interceding on our behalf in our time of need.
Back when my daughters were 15 and 17, they were in my car with another passenger. My oldest daughter, Becky, had just got her license and wasn't that experienced as a driver yet. While taking her friend home Thanksgiving weekend, she took a curve on a country road too sharply and went over a large embankment in my Honda Civic. My youngest daughter, Julie, was in the backseat. They rolled a number of times and even took off the top of a tree at the bottom of this hill, landing in a man's yard upside down. The police on the scene told us that he couldn't believe anybody lived through that experience, but all three did! They had cuts and bruises, but they survived. The airbags saved from harm those in the front seat; however, my youngest daughter did take the blunt of the accident, because she was sitting in the back seat with her feet crushed up under the front seat. Her ankles were both badly injured and she needed a number of bone graft surgeries afterwards. The orthopedic surgeon wasn't sure he could save one foot without amputation, the injuries were so bad, but he managed to do so. She eventually recovered, but it was a long haul. She went from a wheelchair to walker, crutches, and finally a cane over the next year and a half until she returned to normal. She has her scars to prove it! However, both are mothers with two children each and still in the land of the living.
Julie told me that while the car was rolling down that big hill, she saw light beams flashing inside and felt a presence of peace over her, although she was injured the most, but survived. She was the first to crawl out of that car through the back window with both feet injured. My girls and myself still look upon that day as when a miracle occurred in their lives! So, I do believe in miracles and I believe in guardian angels that look out for God's creation from this experience, along with many others that are landmarks in my memory of God's hand of deliverance showing up just in time to save the day. Whether it be by angels or everyday people that God simply used to do His bidding, I have felt His hand of mercy over my life and my children's lives, which makes me a believer in God today.
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Post by Gene on Mar 22, 2014 10:14:22 GMT -5
Seems like these angels have a habit of showing up late on the job.
A little more pep in their step, and they could prevent these accidents from happening in the first place, instead of always being on clean-up duty.
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Post by faune on Mar 22, 2014 10:36:05 GMT -5
Seems like these angels have a habit of showing up late on the job. A little more pep in their step, and they could prevent these accidents from happening in the first place, instead of always being on clean-up duty. Gene ~ Perhaps they tried to warn the people and they didn't listen or were distracted? Therefore, the need for clean-up duty? Also, humans have free choice, so that might have messed up the works, too?
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Post by Gene on Mar 22, 2014 12:42:50 GMT -5
Seems like these angels have a habit of showing up late on the job. A little more pep in their step, and they could prevent these accidents from happening in the first place, instead of always being on clean-up duty. Gene ~ Perhaps they tried to warn the people and they didn't listen or were distracted? Therefore, the need for clean-up duty? Also, humans have free choice, so that might have messed up the works, too? Perhaps!
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Post by snow on Mar 22, 2014 13:53:59 GMT -5
Seems like these angels have a habit of showing up late on the job. A little more pep in their step, and they could prevent these accidents from happening in the first place, instead of always being on clean-up duty. Gene ~ Perhaps they tried to warn the people and they didn't listen or were distracted? Therefore, the need for clean-up duty? Also, humans have free choice, so that might have messed up the works, too? faune, that's just justification for why bad things happen I think. Same with God. He allows children to get AIDS yet he is all loving and all powerful and all merciful. It is what it is, no angels are actually needed imo. Nor a God for that matter. In my experience there hasn't been much help from any of them. If these people had died would you still think an angel was involved? Maybe one was there but couldn't do anything? See it's that kind of stuff that turns me even further away from the belief in god and angels and the like. No proof and the only time they get credit is when people live.
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Post by dmmichgood on Mar 22, 2014 16:48:10 GMT -5
You say what you want dmmichgood I know what I heard and felt so you have your doubts I have none anymore and when you start being grateful and looking for everyday miracles the world becomes a much nicer place to live I understand you believe what you are saying, lilwolfmisty."
It is just that with all we know about how our minds works, there are numerous ways such experiences can be interpreted. Yours was one.
Had it happened to me, I would have interpreted it quite differently.
If it were happening to me, as I was turning over & over, I could well have also heard in my mind a voice perhaps my dad, who had been the one who had taught me to drive.
However, I wouldn't have considered it a "guardian angel" but rather my memory recalling what my dad would have given me advice as what to do.
What I can't understand is how someone finds comfort in believing that they have a "guardian angel" looking after them when in the world over right this instant there are thousands of people being killed, even children, and apparently there is no "guardian angel" interceding on their be·half.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2014 17:04:19 GMT -5
Mat_18:10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.
its obvious angels don't intervene in every case but they do bear witness to whatever happens and report back to the father whats going on...
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Post by snow on Mar 22, 2014 17:10:04 GMT -5
Mat_18:10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven. its obvious angels don't intervene in every case but they do bear witness to whatever happens and report back to the father whats going on... and that is helpful, how?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2014 17:13:28 GMT -5
everything we do gets recorded nothing is hid from God and he will do justice in the end
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Post by snow on Mar 22, 2014 17:14:15 GMT -5
everything we do gets recorded nothing is hid from God and he will do justice in the end OK so I get points in my favor if something bad happens to me and no angel interceded on my behalf?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2014 17:16:22 GMT -5
i suppose you could look at it that way...
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Post by dmmichgood on Mar 22, 2014 20:22:02 GMT -5
Mat_18:10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven. its obvious angels don't intervene in every case but they do bear witness to whatever happens and report back to the father whats going on... Yes, it is obvious "angels" must not always intervene in every case. Either they are asleep on the job or they pick & choose which children they will intercede for and which they won't.
Of course maybe the "angels" have their orders from the "father" about which ones they will intercede for. Maybe they gets orders each morning and they have a certain quota.
Maybe the "father" tells them something like this, "Now just don't go getting carried away and bring me a so many that I can't handle them all!" (or something like that- must be some explanation)
However, if the "angels" do "bear witness to whatever happens and reports back to the father," I wonder what the "father" does about it?
What a conundrum!
Doesn't bear thinking about too deeply, does it?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2014 20:29:24 GMT -5
the father does this: Rom_12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
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