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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 28, 2014 19:31:48 GMT -5
Clyde Mackay used to say this .... not sure if he is the overseer you heard Fred? At the Silverdale convention in Sydney in the early 1990's Gordon McNab, the then overseer of NSW spoke about how thankful he was for the "Truth" and "that we had a lot to thank William Irvine for". My ears pricked up as it is the only time in many, many years of meetings and conventions that I had heard William Irvine's name mentioned. Of course, John Hardie who Gordon M took over from would have known William I very well. It might be the only time since Willie was booted that his name was mentioned from a convention platform. I think WI did a good thing before the exclusivity god took hold. But Willie was one of them that embraced the Living Witness doctrine!
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Post by fixit on Jan 28, 2014 19:53:49 GMT -5
It might be the only time since Willie was booted that his name was mentioned from a convention platform. I think WI did a good thing before the exclusivity god took hold. But Willie was one of them that embraced the Living Witness doctrine! I think WI did a good thing before the exclusivity god took hold. It's pretty clear from history that Uncle Willie descended into sexual immorality and became somewhat of a dictator before he was expelled in 1914. The Goodhand Pattison account and other reports lead me to believe the ministry under WI's guidance started well.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 28, 2014 20:08:04 GMT -5
But Willie was one of them that embraced the Living Witness doctrine! I think WI did a good thing before the exclusivity god took hold. It's pretty clear from history that Uncle Willie descended into sexual immorality and became somewhat of a dictator before he was expelled in 1914. The Goodhand Pattison account and other reports lead me to believe the ministry under WI's guidance started well. I had been of the impression WI's illegitmate son was born BEFORE WI became a 2x2 worker? WI perhaps did do good work...the Faith Mission seemed to think a lot of him until they discovered he was training up his own workers....plus he hadn't contacted them in some time...... As we look back and hear the truth about some workers we can see WI's immoral behavior wasn't the only immoral behavior going on. It was his Omega gospel that scared them.
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Post by fixit on Jan 28, 2014 20:45:46 GMT -5
I think WI did a good thing before the exclusivity god took hold. It's pretty clear from history that Uncle Willie descended into sexual immorality and became somewhat of a dictator before he was expelled in 1914. The Goodhand Pattison account and other reports lead me to believe the ministry under WI's guidance started well. I had been of the impression WI's illegitmate son was born BEFORE WI became a 2x2 worker? WI perhaps did do good work...the Faith Mission seemed to think a lot of him until they discovered he was training up his own workers....plus he hadn't contacted them in some time...... As we look back and hear the truth about some workers we can see WI's immoral behavior wasn't the only immoral behavior going on. It was his Omega gospel that scared them. WI's illegitimate son doesn't mean he was playing up in the early years of his ministry. Yes, the omega gospel was the last straw - they had to eject him for that if nothing else.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 29, 2014 10:12:52 GMT -5
I had been of the impression WI's illegitmate son was born BEFORE WI became a 2x2 worker? WI perhaps did do good work...the Faith Mission seemed to think a lot of him until they discovered he was training up his own workers....plus he hadn't contacted them in some time...... As we look back and hear the truth about some workers we can see WI's immoral behavior wasn't the only immoral behavior going on. It was his Omega gospel that scared them. WI's illegitimate son doesn't mean he was playing up in the early years of his ministry. Yes, the omega gospel was the last straw - they had to eject him for that if nothing else. No, it doesn't mean he was continuing his immoral behaviours, it was just an excuse as if the other workers had booted him out because of his Omega gospel, there'd likely been some angry things going on. There were quite a few who remained his followers and so I believe they believed his Omega gospel or at least they didn't figure it something to get out of shape about.... I think they added his crazy Omega gospel as part of the reason but carefully so because they didn't want to appear to be rejecting a message of God's, or so it appeared to me because the most given reason for his rejection was his immoral behaviours. Though I strongly doubt his immoral behaviours were the only ones.....
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Post by fixit on Jan 29, 2014 13:41:39 GMT -5
It seems that sexual immorality was the main cause of William Irvine's ouster...
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Post by CherieKropp on Jan 29, 2014 20:14:49 GMT -5
Of course, Nate wouldnt mention the following regarding the above letter supposedly allegedly written by Eddie Cooney excommunicating WmI: ** Patricia Roberts (the acknowledged expert on Edward Cooney, who has written 4 books about him and the Cooneyites, of which she is a member) wrote the following opinion about the above letter purportedly written by Cooney in a letter to Cherie Kropp dated August 26, 1997:"This letter you sent me which claims to be from Edward Cooney is undoubtedly a forgery. It was never composed by him. It is totally out of character with Edward's spirit, attitude and style. "Irvine, himself, obviously didn't believe it came from Edward for he says in his letter to Edward: "I had what is said to be, a copy of a letter sent to Ethel McFarland without date or address. If such letter exists in your handwriting, it must come on to me." Irvine had obviously never received such a letter in Edward's handwriting. "May I point out that by 1924 E.C. was practically outside the fellowship himself and would therefore have been in no position to excommunicate anyone else. But he never did excommunicate anyone, nor did he ever want to, for he believed that only God could cut off branches from the Vine. Plans were being made from 1914 onward to excommunicate E.C. "(See p. 15ff of Selected Letters of E.C.) And although he could not agree with the strange and erroneous ideas that W.I. came to espouse, he treated him with compassion and did all he could to restore him to what he once was but without success. (See Selected Letters of E.C. p21ff, 28ff, 43ff, 88ff. See also Life & Ministry of E.C. p. 114ff." www.tellingthetruth.info/founder_letters/wmi1924.php#Eddie
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Post by snow on Jan 29, 2014 22:13:28 GMT -5
But Willie was one of them that embraced the Living Witness doctrine! I think WI did a good thing before the exclusivity god took hold. It's pretty clear from history that Uncle Willie descended into sexual immorality and became somewhat of a dictator before he was expelled in 1914. The Goodhand Pattison account and other reports lead me to believe the ministry under WI's guidance started well. I think when he became a doomsday prophet, that did him in. It was said he knew the guy who ran the Jehovah Witnesses back then and he was saying it was the end of the world, wasn't he?
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Post by fixit on Jan 29, 2014 22:22:49 GMT -5
I think WI did a good thing before the exclusivity god took hold. It's pretty clear from history that Uncle Willie descended into sexual immorality and became somewhat of a dictator before he was expelled in 1914. The Goodhand Pattison account and other reports lead me to believe the ministry under WI's guidance started well. I think when he became a doomsday prophet, that did him in. It was said he knew the guy who ran the Jehovah Witnesses back then and he was saying it was the end of the world, wasn't he? I thought that too Snow, but what do you think of the following?
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Post by snow on Jan 29, 2014 22:57:55 GMT -5
That is interesting fixit. So there is nothing to back up the Omega teaching until 1918? Charles Tasz predicted doomsday was 1914 and he is said to have known William Irvine. So it is interesting that Irvine didn't preach it before 1914 instead of after that. Especially since it didn't happen. Why would he preach it in 1918? That was the year of the influenza taking such a huge death toll on the world. Maybe that is what started it for him at that later date? Something doesn't add up there.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2014 4:35:17 GMT -5
That which I garner from all this is simply this: the hierarchy the 2&2 workers have sought to pattern themselves after is the old testament Hebraic priesthood, with it's high priest and all the rest. Everyone knows what that type of system eventually brought upon the Hebrew people. Sadly, everyone doesn't know what that type of system brings upon groups attempting to duplicate it since. So far as I can determine, it has been that effort to establish such a modern day priesthood, that is the root cause of many failures, not just among workers, although they are the group most affecting me in my life.
There have been tragic human results everywhere such "priesthoods" are allowed to grow and flourish unchecked. All in the name of "God." No wonder so many people lose all confidence in such a human god, not understanding the Spirit God many of us trust and worship, Who, becoming flesh, living among humans, ascended to become our "high priest" touched by our infirmities. Some substances the sun hardens, others it softens. That is how I see it is with my Spirit God. All my God wants from me is my softened heart in which to dwell, bringing the total qualities (Which I know as the "fruit of the Spirit") otherwise completely unknown, and unfound there as a whole, but merely fragments.
Yes, I was born an American, but reborn a "Christian" and like many of old, seeking a better country.
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