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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2013 2:24:03 GMT -5
The Underwoods, Graham, Ngaomi Kaye and cousin Jack as well as children David, Arthur, Lynece and Dennis are Maori. All professing. I have the whakapapa somewhere if anyone wants to know more. Another child Stan is not professing. There's another child of Kaye and husband Trevor but I cannot remember the name. Also professing. Gecko. I think the book you mentioned represents only part of the Maori people. There are many fine Maori people on this earth just like there are many fine Pakeha people. TrevorU is Maori? Cool, I know him!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2013 2:42:26 GMT -5
The Trevor I mentioned is Trevor Thorburn. Jack Underwood had a son whose name I've forgotten and he had some family, maybe your Trev is one of them. but getting back to the main crux of this thread. Why so few Maori?
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Post by snow on Dec 29, 2013 13:09:25 GMT -5
The Trevor I mentioned is Trevor Thorburn. Jack Underwood had a son whose name I've forgotten and he had some family, maybe your Trev is one of them. but getting back to the main crux of this thread. Why so few Maori? Because most indigenous people do not buy the concept of the Christian God. They believe in the oneness of the earth and the interconnectedness of everything. They do not feel 'dominion' over but rather a connection to and kinship with everything. Christian beliefs are not very good for the earth and all it's inhabitants so I'm not surprised it doesn't appeal to them.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2013 15:19:09 GMT -5
Snow, dunno about that, although what you say about "Mother Earth" has an element of truth in it there are still ten of thousands of indigenous people in various churches such as the Pentacostal, Baptist, Mormon and so on. They are just not represented here in NZ in "The Truth' to any degree. That I think could be for a variety of reasons, they may not feel welcome, there paths and those of Pakeha friends do not cross. Or they are much smarter than the Pakeha who join up.
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Post by Mary on Dec 29, 2013 15:54:05 GMT -5
Like wobbly said, many Mormons are Maoris. In fact it is made up of mostly Maori people. They even trace their history back to Jesus - so they tell them. The Maoris embraced the Christian faith when the missionaries went to NZ. Maori chaplains are common or at least were. Maoris embraced Christianity.
The Destiny Church with a Maori pastor and most of the congregation are Maori or Pacific population has grown very fast although a few weeks ago their 2nd to top main player started his own church.
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Post by snow on Dec 29, 2013 16:14:03 GMT -5
Snow, dunno about that, although what you say about "Mother Earth" has an element of truth in it there are still ten of thousands of indigenous people in various churches such as the Pentacostal, Baptist, Mormon and so on. They are just not represented here in NZ in "The Truth' to any degree. That I think could be for a variety of reasons, they may not feel welcome, there paths and those of Pakeha friends do not cross. Or they are much smarter than the Pakeha who join up. Yes I'm sure there are indigenous people in the churches. I just think the mindset of most religions is at odds with the way the indigenous people interact with the earth.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2013 23:31:51 GMT -5
hey Virgo, yep sort of. I live down here in the SI but was born in the north. wore a nice hat a convention?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2013 23:35:24 GMT -5
nope I'm a bloke so only wear scruffy ol hats to keep the sun from harming my amazing brain Are you referring to that pic on my avatar?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2013 23:36:56 GMT -5
nope I'm a bloke so only wear scruffy ol hats to keep the sun from harming my amazing brain Are you referring to that pic on my avatar? not who i was thinking you look to skinny
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2013 1:24:34 GMT -5
gee thanks, your full of love. that piccy is not me but a friend.
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Post by stevnz on Dec 30, 2013 18:31:46 GMT -5
It was some time ago, (perhaps 12-15 years ago), I got to visiting with an older couple from New Zealand and we got on the subject of the indigenous people of New Zealand. They told me that in the early days of the Gospel in New Zealand that it was accepted by the Maori people (in some areas at least), they said that there even was a Maori hymn book, and like all the Polynesian people, they were wonderful singers. Later this group dwindled away to virtually nothing. I am curious if any of our Kiwi board members can shed any light on this. Currently the New Zealand administration has some workers in the Polynesian Islands (Fiji, Tonga, etc) and have had some success. Max Goldsack and Bryan Gibson were there in recent years. This is what I was able to find in a quick search on Cheri's TTT site. In the 1960s I remember several Maori people giving their testimony in Maori at convention. Some of the Maori friends from the area around Pukekohe convention include Fanny & Roddy Hira, Nuku Kahui, Pico Rangitawa. Others at Pukekohe convention include Sonny Turner and Happy ? At the recent convention an older lady remarked to me that there are quiet a few of Asian descent (recent immigrants) but very few Maori. I noted that there were also very few Pacific Islanders (despite the significant number in the general population and the Christian beliefs of many) and very few poor people. Quite a few New Zealanders have some Maori ancestry but might not identify as Maori in a cultural sense. I think that quite a few of the names mentioned in other posts are in that category. Those who do identify as Maori might only have a small % of Maori ancestry. In 2013 NZ had 4 male and 2 female workers in Fiji, but for many years there weren't any there. The Mormon website notes: The first Latter-day Saint missionaries in New Zealand arrived in Auckland in October 1854 from Australia, where the young Church had established its South Pacific base. The little party was led by mission president Augustus Farnham. With him were Australian convert Elder William Cooke and Thomas Holder. After preaching in Auckland, Wellington and Nelson, Farnham returned to Australia and left Elder Cooke in charge. The first 10 converts in New Zealand were baptized in 1854, five months after the first missionaries arrived. A congregation was soon organized at Karori. Persecution arose, and in 1871 the New Zealand parliament briefly considered the "Mormon invasion." With a firm sense of gathering to the Church's center of strength in Salt Lake City, many faithful members emigrated as soon as they had means to do so. This fact contributed to the slow growth of the Church in New Zealand in those early years. In spite of this, New Zealand was proving more receptive than Australia, and the Church moved its South Pacific headquarters from Sydney to Auckland in 1874. At first missionary work centered among Europeans. At the end of 1880, seven branches (small congregations) had been established with 133 members. However, at this time Church President Joseph F. Smith instructed missionaries to concentrate on the indigenous Maori people. Membership in the mid 1880s grew rapidly, especially among the Maori people. Prior to the arrival of the missionaries in the south of the North Island, at least five Maori leaders, some of whom were Tohungas (spiritual leaders) while others were tribal wise men, had told of a "true religion" that would come. Because many beliefs of the Maoris and missionaries were similar, a number of Maoris were converted. The first conversions came in the Waikato region, but others soon followed. The first Maori baptized was Ngataki, on Oct. 18, 1881.
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Post by Mary on Dec 30, 2013 23:32:31 GMT -5
So true, you have a good memory re Happy and Sonny Turner- sent my mind back 55 years or so. I visited and I think may have stayed a couple of days with Debbie Turner and her mother at Ngawha Springs in Northland when I was a kid. Debbie I think was Sonny's grand daughter.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2013 2:07:40 GMT -5
I knew Pico Rangitaawa. and spent many happy days at his place. He was such a cool guy mainly 'cos he taught me to play double bass. He was a fine guitarist too and had played in bands in his early days. He professed later in life probably some time in the mid 70's.
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Post by Mary on Jan 11, 2014 14:30:27 GMT -5
I learned about Hongi Hika when I was at school. As you say anyone who has some Maori blood in them can say they are Maori so the names you have given are likely more non Maori than Maori. It would be more correct to say their fathers are part Maori.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2014 23:05:11 GMT -5
Hi Brownowl. I was wondering who Ursula's father is. Was it Basil Martin who was also in the work or is it Doug Martin from Chch?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2014 0:53:33 GMT -5
Hi brownowl, sorry you got the wrong fella. send me a pm and we can have a chat
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2014 2:17:50 GMT -5
Like wobbly said, many Mormons are Maoris. In fact it is made up of mostly Maori people. They even trace their history back to Jesus - so they tell them. The Maoris embraced the Christian faith when the missionaries went to NZ. Maori chaplains are common or at least were. Maoris embraced Christianity. The Destiny Church with a Maori pastor and most of the congregation are Maori or Pacific population has grown very fast although a few weeks ago their 2nd to top main player started his own church. Brian Tamaki came from Te Awamutu. He came round to our place once when I was still professing to see me and encourage me to join his church. At that stage Destiny was in the future and he had set up a church called Rosetown? He was not my cup of tea so I politely declined.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2014 3:42:37 GMT -5
Hi Edgar,
I hope your daughter enjoys her stay here. What bought her to this part of the world?
She is a young girl anxious to see the world -- When she finished one stage of her training a cook she took a short job turn in Greece, then a year in England, a year here in Sweden, and now has been six months in New Zealand -- and she loves it. Seems easy for cooks to get work .. and it all seems to work on the contact net system where a restaurant owner has a friend in another country that needs a cook - and so it goes.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2014 5:08:51 GMT -5
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Post by quizzer on Jan 13, 2014 12:04:27 GMT -5
Hi brownowl, sorry you got the wrong fella. send me a pm and we can have a chat O.K. Thanks for that wobblyboot. I was just looking at the people you knew, and you saying your wife was Maori. I hope Allan Richardson doesn't do guessing games on my postings and send two servants to knock on my door. The Workers I'm sure read this stuff to keep their fingers on the pulse of dissenting followers. Try these responses to any worker questions: "Hunh?!?" "What are you talking about?" "You not reading on some on those awful online sites, are you?"
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Post by quartercastmaori on Jul 1, 2015 4:44:37 GMT -5
hey everyone. Its not Pico Rangitaawa, its Piko Rangitaawa. Im his grandson. we were the only maori's in the meetings , and i have only ever seen one other maori guy at convention.
Why so many maori dont profess. becuase of the blind and blatant demolishing of mother earth by so called professing friends. i dont profess, dont think i ever will. but with cars, computers, wars, and judgements from the friends. I can see why the trepidation from maoris to enter the friends.
Tho Koro, gramps, Piko, sure did it cool and real for the truth in my veiw. just took me 35 years to see and know it to be real from him and between him and god.
maoris also have One god and that is IO, so this is how maoris can be of the friends, one god. also jesus is called Ihukaraiti, something to do with a lamp and path.
peace out till next time
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Post by CherieKropp on Jul 1, 2015 15:28:13 GMT -5
It's interesting to me to learn more about the maori beliefs and viewpoints. I know so very little.
I would like to better understand what you mean by your statement above. Can you explain more about your statement and possibly provide some examples? Thanks
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Post by quartercastmaori on Jul 1, 2015 16:44:37 GMT -5
the paradox is that the journey towards truth, is the truth. and the unconscious, (i dont go as far to say evil) acts i'm talking about is like when my mum left the church because of the scripture about adultery, well a lot of the friends judged her to her face about that. yet she was following the scripture, this is unconscious and not the truth. Also its the INDOCTRINATION, of literally following the scripture which is just a belief not the truth. I learnt how to love Ihukaraiti from gramps. yet i grew up with friends all buying big muscle cars, pollution, I grew up with friends fishing too much and depleting the ocean family etc... these are just some examples. it was like they were saved so could just go out and be a westerner with no remorse or connection to gods creation, some of them are probably phsyciatrists for all i know, working for the governments who actually do war, some are probably doctors who (unlike china who will only pay a doctor if the village is healthy, becuase then they know he is doing his job) , probably a doctor who specialises in people staying sick with vaccines.
gramps never did this stuff, he was simple living, connected to gods creations, and deeply in love with God. stop buying muscle cars, big houses and becoming cliche westerners and learn to live off the land . heck even the amish are closer to the land than the friends.
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Post by quartercastmaori on Jul 1, 2015 20:01:37 GMT -5
i also think, churches like destiny, or mormon or catholic etc. they draw maoris becuase of the sparkley light affect, big mana in those sparkley lights. also thdey big peacock displays draw them in because it all seems important. its the big white haka, so to speak
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2015 0:20:28 GMT -5
i also think, churches like destiny, or mormon or catholic etc. they draw maoris becuase of the sparkley light affect, big mana in those sparkley lights. also thdey big peacock displays draw them in because it all seems important. its the big white haka, so to speak
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Post by CherieKropp on Jul 2, 2015 8:26:06 GMT -5
I'm not following you...could you explain more about your mom leaving the church because of adultery? Thanks.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jul 2, 2015 12:41:05 GMT -5
Hi Cherie, it was qcm that made that comment about his mum.
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Post by CherieKropp on Jul 2, 2015 13:10:14 GMT -5
Hi Cherie, it was qcm that made that comment about his mum. Oop! You're right.
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