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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2013 9:45:34 GMT -5
This is a well thought-out petition recently put online calling for action within the F&W. The preamble is as follows and the details can be found on the link below: Petition Background (Preamble): It has been brought to our attention that there are several instances of Child Sexual Abuse among our Workers and Friends that have been dealt with in an inappropriate manner and then kept secret.
We cannot expect any amount of change for the better, if those who know of the threat refuse to acknowledge it.There is much more detail as to what the petition is calling for, all of it which appears quite reasonable. www.gopetition.com/petitions/create-publish-and-implement-a-child-sexual-abuse-response-plan.html
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2013 10:07:40 GMT -5
Suspect signees of this document will be the next list of people to be dis-invited of their fellowship with that group. Wonder just how long it will take for them to be given the ultimatum to disavow it as that is simply not how things get done in that fellowship, or find the door out...?
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Post by arwen89 on Dec 18, 2013 10:24:30 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2013 10:26:17 GMT -5
Are you suggesting there is safety for them in numbers? Vietnam has proven 30% did not provide it....and I doubt whether this site will receive even that many....
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2013 10:32:20 GMT -5
Would gladly and openly sign it, however I perceive that would do more harm than good... Really I have no right to sign it, I am NOT part of that fellowship and think lots of other changes are just as needful....
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Post by arwen89 on Dec 18, 2013 10:35:02 GMT -5
Please share to as many people as possible! Instead of saying "It won't help," please sign and share!
I created this, knowing that if I did nothing, nothing would be done. Within 5 minutes of posting it, I had already recieved a private message saying that I was "young" And just "rehashing things from decades ago" And that they were "sorry to have wasted" their "time reading this."
I know how hard it is to get professing ppl to open their minds and come out of denial, but you can bet I'm at least going to try!
☆Arwen☆
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2013 10:37:59 GMT -5
What makes you think this will go anywhere? What about all the others who have gone before this and have had no support from those on this board or their own family or meeting? Are you going to encourage workers and friends to apologies for not supporting others who have be willing to write letter and speak to workers, family and friends to their face about this issue???
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Post by arwen89 on Dec 18, 2013 10:39:06 GMT -5
Would gladly and openly sign it, however I perceive that would do more harm than good... Really I have no right to sign it, I am NOT part of that fellowship and think lots of other changes are just as needful....Thanks for being completely unhelpful. Just bc there are other things that need changed, is no reason to not TRY and change the things I can. You were more than welcome to have just ignored it. ☆Arwen☆
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2013 10:41:43 GMT -5
Are you saying that friends and workers are FINALLY ready to put their NAME to something and stand up for the ABUSED!!!!! I can not wait to see this!!!!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2013 10:52:29 GMT -5
Would gladly and openly sign it, however I perceive that would do more harm than good... Really I have no right to sign it, I am NOT part of that fellowship and think lots of other changes are just as needful....Thanks for being completely unhelpful. Just bc there are other things that need changed, is no reason to not TRY and change the things I can. You were more than welcome to have just ignored it. ☆Arwen☆ Say WHAT? You think I am hindering your efforts? Not intentionally! If I added my name, it would truly hinder your efforts, for I am not allowed any part of your group...wishing you well, and please read your pm from me. Wishing you well...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2013 11:00:10 GMT -5
Please share to as many people as possible! Instead of saying "It won't help," please sign and share! I created this, knowing that if I did nothing, nothing would be done. Within 5 minutes of posting it, I had already recieved a private message saying that I was "young" And just "rehashing things from decades ago" And that they were "sorry to have wasted" their "time reading this." I know how hard it is to get professing ppl to open their minds and come out of denial, but you can bet I'm at least going to try! ☆Arwen☆ Thank you very much for creating this Arwen. You have articulated very well what needs to be done. This is well written, sound and reasonable. Please don't allow yourself to be bullied. To get a message such as you did is actually an indication of how important and valuable this is, so let's hope this reaches many more like that.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2013 11:07:55 GMT -5
Suspect signees of this document will be the next list of people to be dis-invited of their fellowship with that group. Wonder just how long it will take for them to be given the ultimatum to disavow it as that is simply not how things get done in that fellowship, or find the door out...? Time will tell Dennis. This petition is so reasonable that any backlash to any of the friends or workers who sign this will be a terrible reflection on whomever would react that way. That sort of action would indicate a tendency for the F&W to support the sexual abuse of children. I would like to see as many current F&W names on this as possible. And with all due respect to exes, I am hoping that those who are well known to be in opposition to the fellowship might refrain from signing it. By doing so, it would give ammunition to dismiss this petition as the product of "bitter exes". I am sure you understand the politics that goes on but of course, this is a public petition so anyone is free to sign it.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2013 11:12:59 GMT -5
Thanks for being completely unhelpful. Just bc there are other things that need changed, is no reason to not TRY and change the things I can. You were more than welcome to have just ignored it. ☆Arwen☆ Say WHAT? You think I am hindering your efforts? Not intentionally! If I added my name, it would truly hinder your efforts, for I am not allowed any part of your group...wishing you well, and please read your pm from me. Wishing you well...I agree with you Dennis. Your name would probably set this back. However, signing under a pseudonym would be a good option for you and others who are considered "bitter exes" by those who would like to dismiss this petition as the product of church hatred.....which it clearly is not.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2013 11:14:40 GMT -5
Suspect signees of this document will be the next list of people to be dis-invited of their fellowship with that group. Wonder just how long it will take for them to be given the ultimatum to disavow it as that is simply not how things get done in that fellowship, or find the door out...? Time will tell Dennis. This petition is so reasonable that any backlash to any of the friends or workers who sign this will be a terrible reflection on whomever would react that way. That sort of action would indicate a tendency for the F&W to support the sexual abuse of children.
I would like to see as many current F&W names on this as possible. And with all due respect to exes, I am hoping that those who are well known to be in opposition to the fellowship might refrain from signing it. By doing so, it would give ammunition to dismiss this petition as the product of "bitter exes". I am sure you understand the politics that goes on but of course, this is a public petition so anyone is free to sign it.
Yessir, I DO understand and agree with you, which why I made it clear I did not think my signing it would be wise, though I would gladly do so. Yes, one can hope, however, I've been deep inside that fellowship, and even workers and was only relating what I had both known and experienced. I am in NO way opposed to this effort!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2013 11:15:49 GMT -5
I signed it and agree with you CD; any backlash against something so reasonable would be a sad commentary on those who react that way.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2013 11:18:00 GMT -5
Time will tell Dennis. This petition is so reasonable that any backlash to any of the friends or workers who sign this will be a terrible reflection on whomever would react that way. That sort of action would indicate a tendency for the F&W to support the sexual abuse of children.
I would like to see as many current F&W names on this as possible. And with all due respect to exes, I am hoping that those who are well known to be in opposition to the fellowship might refrain from signing it. By doing so, it would give ammunition to dismiss this petition as the product of "bitter exes". I am sure you understand the politics that goes on but of course, this is a public petition so anyone is free to sign it.
Yessir, I DO understand and agree with you, which why I made it clear Idid not think m signing it would be wise, though I would gladly do so. Yes, one can hope, however, I've been deep inside that fellowship, and even workers and was only relating what I had both known and experienced. I am in NO way opposed to this effort!As I suggested in the other thread on this, one way for those labeled as "bitter exes" to help is to sign under a pseudonym. It would add to the numbers of signers who support this petition without introducing unnecessary politics.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2013 11:18:53 GMT -5
Thanks for being completely unhelpful. Just bc there are other things that need changed, is no reason to not TRY and change the things I can. You were more than welcome to have just ignored it. ☆Arwen☆ Say WHAT? You think I am hindering your efforts? Not intentionally! If I added my name, it would truly hinder your efforts, for I am not allowed any part of your group...wishing you well, and please read your pm from me. Wishing you well...Someone not familiar with your story might not understand why your signing this would not be a good idea. I get it and think you are wise not to sign it under your own name. And I do know you care.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2013 11:19:29 GMT -5
I signed it and agree with you CD; any backlash against something so reasonable would be a sad commentary on those who react that way. If someone got kicked out for signing it, they could leave in good conscience, knowing that they were persecuted for doing something good and right.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2013 11:24:45 GMT -5
To Admin or Mods:
This thread that I created was done simultaneously with the similar thread by the creator of the petition.
I would be happy for you to combine the threads if possible in order to keep the discussion more focused and less repetitious.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2013 11:26:40 GMT -5
Say WHAT? You think I am hindering your efforts? Not intentionally! If I added my name, it would truly hinder your efforts, for I am not allowed any part of your group...wishing you well, and please read your pm from me. Wishing you well...
I agree with you Dennis. Your name would probably set this back. However, signing under a pseudonym would be a good option for you and others who are considered "bitter exes" by those who would like to dismiss this petition as the product of church hatred.....which it clearly is not.
CD, thank you.. Yes, likely you are right about a pseudonym. However, decades ago I pledged myself to do, express, say nothing anonymously. It is a matter of my conscience and not to discredit/devalue any other's...kind of as when I chose not to carry a weapon in combat even more decades ago... Would it harm? Likely not, yet many know I live by this lack of anonymity stand, and it would make me feel hypocritical to go against that at this late stage. Hope you and everyone else can understand?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2013 11:31:03 GMT -5
I agree with you Dennis. Your name would probably set this back. However, signing under a pseudonym would be a good option for you and others who are considered "bitter exes" by those who would like to dismiss this petition as the product of church hatred.....which it clearly is not.
CD, thank you.. Yes, likely you are right about a pseudonym. However, decades ago I pledged myself to do, express, say nothing anonymously. It is a matter of my conscience and not to discredit/devalue any other's...kind of as when I chose not to carry a weapon in combat even more decades ago... Would it harm? Likely not, yet many know I live by this lack of anonymity stand, and it would make me feel hypocritical to go against that at this late stage. Hope you and everyone else can understand? That's a fair position to take. It's one of those things where there is a conflict with good. You see it as good to maintain non-anonymity and you see it as good to sign the petition if it wasn't for your name association. You rank the non-anonymity value higher so it's a personal valuation issue which I can respect.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 18, 2013 11:32:23 GMT -5
Please share to as many people as possible! Instead of saying "It won't help," please sign and share! I created this, knowing that if I did nothing, nothing would be done. Within 5 minutes of posting it, I had already recieved a private message saying that I was "young" And just "rehashing things from decades ago" And that they were "sorry to have wasted" their "time reading this." I know how hard it is to get professing ppl to open their minds and come out of denial, but you can bet I'm at least going to try! ☆Arwen☆ Thank you very much for creating this Arwen. You have articulated very well what needs to be done. This is well written, sound and reasonable. Please don't allow yourself to be bullied. To get a message such as you did is actually an indication of how important and valuable this is, so let's hope this reaches many more like that. CD and Arowen, do you not think a "shorter" version of this declaration would likely be accepted and penned then what is there? Also, to make the negative criticism very bfief but to the point? And reword all the positive reasons for the declaration be the point of the discussion? I'm just thinking of what people's first impression of the declaration and find that folks are not likely going to bother reading too much more then the declaration preamble! JMT's
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2013 11:42:20 GMT -5
Thank you very much for creating this Arwen. You have articulated very well what needs to be done. This is well written, sound and reasonable. Please don't allow yourself to be bullied. To get a message such as you did is actually an indication of how important and valuable this is, so let's hope this reaches many more like that. CD and Arowen, do you not think a "shorter" version of this declaration would likely be accepted and penned then what is there? Also, to make the negative criticism very bfief but to the point? And reword all the positive reasons for the declaration be the point of the discussion? I'm just thinking of what people's first impression of the declaration and find that folks are not likely going to bother reading too much more then the declaration preamble! JMT's Arwen would have to answer that. I had no input into the petition so it's as new to me as it is to you. You're probably right, some people are going to read it only so far then dismiss it as anti-2x2ism. These sorts of petitions sometimes do not achieve exactly what they set out to achieve, but they always achieve an increase in awareness which leads to positive behaviour change. I think anyone truly interested will read it carefully before deciding on its merits. That said, a summary would be helpful but it looks to me like the format of that petition system doesn't allow for a summary. I suppose a summary could be made at the end of the petition but it's probably too late to change it now. It wouldn't be fair for people who have already signed it to have it changed, no matter how reasonable the change is.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2013 12:03:55 GMT -5
Are you saying that friends and workers are FINALLY ready to put their NAME to something and stand up for the ABUSED!!!!! I can not wait to see this!!!! As a "friend", yes, I am more than willing to put my name to something and I did! I know there are many who will not and will sweep this under the rug the same way they do everything else, and it truly is a shame. But if we can just get even ONE person to open their mind to this issue and be educated about it, I will consider it to be a success. No one ever talks about these kinds of things so most people don't even know it's an issue they need to protect themselves and their loved ones from. I hope many, many others will sign this. If you don't want to use your real name, sign anonymously or under a pseudonym. If you are already an ex and don't feel that your name on this petition would be helpful, then I hope at least we can have your verbal support on this forum. Thanks.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2013 12:18:27 GMT -5
Interesting that the petition would be put out asking for personal signatures when the writers themselves and people behind the website that publishes it, chose to hide their identity and refuse to be personally stand for the things they write!! This is the kind of hypocrisy that 2x2 is famous for!!!
I would be glad to sign it --- but like Dennis suggests for himself, my signiture isn't going to do much good.
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Post by arwen89 on Dec 18, 2013 12:20:26 GMT -5
I guess I could take out all the criticism... lol It is available for edit. And anyone can PM for suggestions, I'm taking this initiative on my own and an beginning already to be overwhelmed!
My parents own the Clever convention grounds in Missouri where I just recently realized Ira Hobbs had been allowed to attend or convention. When I asked if my father knew him he said "Yeah! He sat in front of us!" *shudder* When I tried to see if they would ban him from the grounds, I was told "We can't be the 'Social Police!'" and "People just need to watch their own kids! They're too trusting." Yet, they defend the secrecy from the workers on the subject, by saying "What good would it do to tell everyone what so-and-so has done??!"
This is what I've been moved to TRY and do. We shall see what comes of it!
☆Arwen☆
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2013 12:25:37 GMT -5
I signed it and agree with you CD; any backlash against something so reasonable would be a sad commentary on those who react that way. If someone got kicked out for signing it, they could leave in good conscience, knowing that they were persecuted for doing something good and right. I signed it, and I'm not too worried about backlash. Not that I don't expect some kind of backlash at some point, but...if I'm kicked out over this, it won't break my heart really. I agree, it will say a lot about the system if people are kicked out over this. That would give the workers just as much or more negative attention than this petition is doing. And as a mother to 2 little girls, and with friends and family members who are victims of CSA, I feel that signing this is good and right and my conscience is clear knowing I took a stand. I hope many, many more people will take a stand and sign it as well, and share it with everyone you know!!!!!! As was mentioned before, the more people that sign it, the harder it will be to ignore. I'm sure things like this have been done in the past and were not successful, but that doesn't mean no one in the future should take a stand.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2013 12:37:50 GMT -5
Interesting that the petition would be put out asking for personal signatures when the writers themselves and people behind the website that publishes it, chose to hide their identity and refuse to be personally stand for the things they write!! This is the kind of hypocrisy that 2x2 is famous for!!! What on earth are you talking about? The writer of the petition is right upfront about who she is, and the CEO of Go Petition has his name right on the site: John Pope. The site was launched in Sydney Australia in 2000 by five people associated with Macquarie University. Wise decision.
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