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Post by fixit on Dec 21, 2013 18:01:01 GMT -5
Poisoned by a Jewess Muhammad was poisoned by a Jewish woman, following the conquest of Khaibar, where he took Safiyah as a wife, and ordered the torture and beheading of her husband Kinana, the chief of the Jews at Khaibar. wikiislam.net/wiki/Circumstances_Surrounding_Muhammad's_Death www.answering-islam.org/Silas/mo-death.htmYou need to read many different versions of his life. You need to get out and meet more Muslims from Muslim countries. Not just one man who you claim to be an expert and a few from the local mosque. Muslims are not ignorant of his history but give a different interpretation on it like I have written earlier. You keep trying to twist what I have written. No one says what the Jews did was right. I am Christian not a Jew. No excuse that he was copying them. Jesus went before him to show him the different way. How many Muslims do you know, Mary?
Have you ever been in a Mosque?
Mary is probably more closely connected with Islam than anyone else on TMB.
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Post by fixit on Dec 21, 2013 18:28:04 GMT -5
I tried sleeping with a Muslim woman, but I couldn't bring that one off. I suspect there's more to the story, but you'll leave us hanging on that. Perhaps you could confirm whether the following is correct about Islamic paradise?
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Post by rational on Dec 21, 2013 18:36:24 GMT -5
Mary is probably more closely connected with Islam than anyone else on TMB.[/quote]So far her posts and discussions would not support this claim. Perhaps she has trouble articulating her thoughts. Can you clarify?
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Post by rational on Dec 21, 2013 18:41:09 GMT -5
...wrote that the perpetual virgins will all "have appetizing vaginas", and that the "penis of the Elected never softens. The erection is eternal". Being stricken with priapism sounds like hell rather than paradise.
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Post by fixit on Dec 21, 2013 18:44:18 GMT -5
Mary is probably more closely connected with Islam than anyone else on TMB. So far her posts and discussions would not support this claim. Perhaps she has trouble articulating her thoughts. Can you clarify? I think its best that I leave it to Mary to clarify.
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Post by dmmichgood on Dec 21, 2013 18:59:21 GMT -5
How many Muslims do you know, Mary?
Have you ever been in a Mosque?
Mary is probably more closely connected with Islam than anyone else on TMB. Really??
Mary, can you substantiate that statement?
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Post by dmmichgood on Dec 21, 2013 19:06:05 GMT -5
Geeze! "penis of the Elected never softens. The erection is eternal".
That sounds like what Viagra warns you about, -if that should happen, that you need to see a physician!
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 21, 2013 21:04:30 GMT -5
Geeze! "penis of the Elected never softens. The erection is eternal".
That sounds like what Viagra warns you about, -if that should happen, that you need to see a physician!
I've heard it can make your penis explode -- right off your body!!!
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Post by Mary on Dec 22, 2013 3:16:40 GMT -5
Poisoned by a Jewess Muhammad was poisoned by a Jewish woman, following the conquest of Khaibar, where he took Safiyah as a wife, and ordered the torture and beheading of her husband Kinana, the chief of the Jews at Khaibar. wikiislam.net/wiki/Circumstances_Surrounding_Muhammad's_Death www.answering-islam.org/Silas/mo-death.htmYou need to read many different versions of his life. You need to get out and meet more Muslims from Muslim countries. Not just one man who you claim to be an expert and a few from the local mosque. Muslims are not ignorant of his history but give a different interpretation on it like I have written earlier. You keep trying to twist what I have written. No one says what the Jews did was right. I am Christian not a Jew. No excuse that he was copying them. Jesus went before him to show him the different way. How many Muslims do you know, Mary?
Have you ever been in a Mosque?
How many Muslims do I know? 100s if not 1,000s. Close family too. Have I ever been in a Mosque? Yes. I thank God for the amazing experience that I have had the privilege to experience. We serve an awesome God.
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Post by Mary on Dec 22, 2013 12:38:31 GMT -5
Most people just want a happy life. Humans are humans every where. I would say women are women every where, mother's nurturers etc but a lot of the men are definitely in my opinion a lot different in their thinking. Especially a big difference between Christian and Muslim men. There are some really beautiful Muslims men who have a beautiful spirit but they are few and far between. I'm trying to find the words - Muslim men mostly have a different view of the world. One of fighting the enemy whoever they perceive the enemy is, survival of the fittest in families and society, but the respect the men have for their mothers is great to see. Pressure for the men is more than western cultures in that they are the ones who have to pray 5 times a day, go to Mosque, work for large families, where as the mother stays at home and cares for the family, often gets bored talks to the neighbours all day, spends hours of the day cooking. A girl is born to get married - usually staying at school until getting married. Mother's start eyeing up guys for their young daughter from a young age. Boys are seen as an asset, girls a burden who they want to marry off the get looked after asap. (Guess China and other cultures have this view too). Men are certainly valued more than girls but girls are loved just the same. This is changing as the Muslim world is getting in touch with the west. What I am still trying to work out is that Muslims largely hate the west, seeing it as evil yet give anything to live in these countries. I see a lot of depression and a sense of hopelessness in the men who see no hope for a better life in men in Egypt, Jordan, and those poorer countries. Only my opinion living with Jordanian and Egyptian families over there and close contact here. Women are getting educated now but still most are married before they finish their education. A women's education is not valued as much as men's. This is only my observation. Those who live out of their home country are often different from when they live in their home country where the average family have no hope of a better future for themselves and family. Everyone wants the best for their kids.
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Post by dmmichgood on Dec 22, 2013 17:34:49 GMT -5
Most people just want a happy life. Humans are humans every where. I would say women are women every where, mother's nurturers etc but a lot of the men are definitely in my opinion a lot different in their thinking. Especially a big difference between Christian and Muslim men. There are some really beautiful Muslims men who have a beautiful spirit but they are few and far between. I'm trying to find the words - Muslim men mostly have a different view of the world. One of fighting the enemy whoever they perceive the enemy is, survival of the fittest in families and society, but the respect the men have for their mothers is great to see. Pressure for the men is more than western cultures in that they are the ones who have to pray 5 times a day, go to Mosque, work for large families, where as the mother stays at home and cares for the family, often gets bored talks to the neighbours all day, spends hours of the day cooking. A girl is born to get married - usually staying at school until getting married. Mother's start eyeing up guys for their young daughter from a young age. Boys are seen as an asset, girls a burden who they want to marry off the get looked after asap. (Guess China and other cultures have this view too). Men are certainly valued more than girls but girls are loved just the same. This is changing as the Muslim world is getting in touch with the west. What I am still trying to work out is that Muslims largely hate the west, seeing it as evil yet give anything to live in these countries. I see a lot of depression and a sense of hopelessness in the men who see no hope for a better life in men in Egypt, Jordan, and those poorer countries. Only my opinion living with Jordanian and Egyptian families over there and close contact here. Women are getting educated now but still most are married before they finish their education. A women's education is not valued as much as men's. This is only my observation. Those who live out of their home country are often different from when they live in their home country where the average family have no hope of a better future for themselves and family. Everyone wants the best for their kids. Thanks, Mary, for your information.
You do have a lot of information.
I only know a few Muslims.
After 9/11 it was a fearful time for all Muslims in this country. Several of us from NOW (National Organization for Women) went to the Muslim women in our community and offered any help that we might be able to give them. Things like escorting them when they shopped or were out in public or even to do the shopping for them.
We also made public statement by having a press conference and all of us wearing a scarf on our heads to show our solidarity with women.
The Muslim community invited the public to attend a service at a Mosque, so my husband & I went.
If people would just try to understand one another, it would help immensely. Too many people are so sure that what they believe is the ONLY way and they don't seem to want to be educated.
It is that idea that has caused so much strife throughout history & today as well.
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 22, 2013 21:52:23 GMT -5
Poisoned by a Jewess Muhammad was poisoned by a Jewish woman, following the conquest of Khaibar, where he took Safiyah as a wife, and ordered the torture and beheading of her husband Kinana, the chief of the Jews at Khaibar. wikiislam.net/wiki/Circumstances_Surrounding_Muhammad's_Death www.answering-islam.org/Silas/mo-death.htmYou need to read many different versions of his life. You need to get out and meet more Muslims from Muslim countries. Not just one man who you claim to be an expert and a few from the local mosque. Muslims are not ignorant of his history but give a different interpretation on it like I have written earlier. You keep trying to twist what I have written. No one says what the Jews did was right. I am Christian not a Jew. No excuse that he was copying them. Jesus went before him to show him the different way. Okay - I understand where you got this poisoning, etc. story from. It doesn't come from historical reference, but from the lore of some divergent sect of Islam. There are serious historical problems with the story on a number of points.
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 22, 2013 21:53:20 GMT -5
Mary is probably more closely connected with Islam than anyone else on TMB. Really??
Mary, can you substantiate that statement?Don't worry -- I've known Mary's connection to Islam for some time now.
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 22, 2013 22:08:21 GMT -5
Most people just want a happy life. Humans are humans every where. I would say women are women every where, mother's nurturers etc but a lot of the men are definitely in my opinion a lot different in their thinking. Especially a big difference between Christian and Muslim men. There are some really beautiful Muslims men who have a beautiful spirit but they are few and far between. I'm trying to find the words - Muslim men mostly have a different view of the world. One of fighting the enemy whoever they perceive the enemy is, survival of the fittest in families and society, but the respect the men have for their mothers is great to see. Pressure for the men is more than western cultures in that they are the ones who have to pray 5 times a day, go to Mosque, work for large families, where as the mother stays at home and cares for the family, often gets bored talks to the neighbours all day, spends hours of the day cooking. A girl is born to get married - usually staying at school until getting married. Mother's start eyeing up guys for their young daughter from a young age. Boys are seen as an asset, girls a burden who they want to marry off the get looked after asap. (Guess China and other cultures have this view too). Men are certainly valued more than girls but girls are loved just the same. This is changing as the Muslim world is getting in touch with the west. What I am still trying to work out is that Muslims largely hate the west, seeing it as evil yet give anything to live in these countries. I see a lot of depression and a sense of hopelessness in the men who see no hope for a better life in men in Egypt, Jordan, and those poorer countries. Only my opinion living with Jordanian and Egyptian families over there and close contact here. Women are getting educated now but still most are married before they finish their education. A women's education is not valued as much as men's. This is only my observation. Those who live out of their home country are often different from when they live in their home country where the average family have no hope of a better future for themselves and family. Everyone wants the best for their kids. It is no mystery why the Middle Easterners hate the West -- the West has exploited them for centuries, egregiously. And in the 21st Century the US has declared through high officials that it was a "crusade". How in heck can anyone expect them to love the West. Of course they want what other people have -- but they're just not stupid enough to know why they can't have it where they are. And the West has over the years supported every sadistic regime in that part of the world as long as it helped WE WESTERNERS to have what we have. There are two Qur'anic justifications for making war, and one of them is the defense of the unjustly deprived. Western capitalists (especially the US) do not subscribe to that virtue -- so what can you expect? One of the biggest complainers against the recent peace efforts in Syria came from the American arms manufacturers -- they're missing out on another windfall of cash because we're not going to bomb the be-jeezes out of someone.
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Post by fixit on Dec 23, 2013 0:13:03 GMT -5
There are two Qur'anic justifications for making war, and one of them is the defense of the unjustly deprived. There seems to be more than two:
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Post by dmmichgood on Dec 23, 2013 1:20:36 GMT -5
There are two Qur'anic justifications for making war, and one of them is the defense of the unjustly deprived. There seems to be more than two: Fixit, You could go through the Old Testament & find just as many & actually a lot more of the same kind of statements and supposedly stated by the GOD of Israel.
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Post by fixit on Dec 23, 2013 1:40:58 GMT -5
Fixit, You could go through the Old Testament & find just as many & actually a lot more of the same kind of statements and supposedly stated by the GOD of Israel. That's right. The difference is that no Western country has an equivalent of Sharia law for OT law.
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Post by fixit on Dec 23, 2013 1:56:52 GMT -5
It is no mystery why the Middle Easterners hate the West -- the West has exploited them for centuries, egregiously. And in the 21st Century the US has declared through high officials that it was a "crusade". How in heck can anyone expect them to love the West. Of course they want what other people have -- but they're just not stupid enough to know why they can't have it where they are. And the West has over the years supported every sadistic regime in that part of the world as long as it helped WE WESTERNERS to have what we have. The "crusade" comment was a slip of the tongue and you know it. Here's a list of the worlds richest countries in terms of GDP per person, including several in the Middle East. Most of them would have been colonies at some stage, including the USA. 1 Qatar 100,889 2012 2 Luxembourg 77,958 2012 3 Singapore 60,799 2012 4 Norway 54,397 2012 5 Brunei 54,114 2012 6 United States 51,704 2012 — Hong Kong 50,936 2012 7 Switzerland 44,864 2012 8 San Marino[4] 42,724 2012 9 Canada 42,317 2012 10 Australia 41,954 2012 11 Austria 41,908 2012 12 Netherlands 41,527 2012 13 Ireland 40,716 2012 14 Sweden 40,304 2012 15 Kuwait 39,874 2012 16 Iceland 39,718 2012 17 Germany 38,666 2012 18 Taiwan 38,357 2012 19 Belgium 37,459 2012 20 Denmark 37,324 2012 21 United Kingdom 36,569 2012 22 Japan 35,855 2012 23 Finland 35,771 2012 24 France 35,295 2012 25 Israel 33,878 2012 26 Korea, South 31,950 2012 27 Bahamas, The 31,324 2012 28 Saudi Arabia 30,477 2012 29 Spain 30,058 2012 30 Italy 29,812 2012 31 New Zealand 29,481 2012 32 United Arab Emirates 29,176 2012 33 Oman 28,843 2012 34 Bahrain 28,691 2012
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 23, 2013 2:15:10 GMT -5
There are two Qur'anic justifications for making war, and one of them is the defense of the unjustly deprived. There seems to be more than two: You're reading far too much into what I wrote. I crossed out everything that has nothing to do with what I said. I was saying what reasons Muslims are to start wars for -- not what they should do if someone else makes war on them or what they should do once they get into a war. I already explained what the West is doing that would justify going to war in their belief system. If the governments in the West applied the Muslim justification for making war on such injustices, they would be more justified in bragging about their quality of life.
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 23, 2013 2:23:24 GMT -5
It is no mystery why the Middle Easterners hate the West -- the West has exploited them for centuries, egregiously. And in the 21st Century the US has declared through high officials that it was a "crusade". How in heck can anyone expect them to love the West. Of course they want what other people have -- but they're just not stupid enough to know why they can't have it where they are. And the West has over the years supported every sadistic regime in that part of the world as long as it helped WE WESTERNERS to have what we have. The "crusade" comment was a slip of the tongue and you know it. I beg your pardon. I saw/heard the US Secretary of defense call it a crusade -- live on TV. You might even have heard that in a right-wing redneck station if you go there. Who cares? The USA is the richest country in the world, and it has the highest rate of child poverty of any industrialized country in the world.
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Post by fixit on Dec 23, 2013 2:39:56 GMT -5
The "crusade" comment was a slip of the tongue and you know it. I beg your pardon. I saw/heard the US Secretary of defense call it a crusade -- live on TV. You might even have heard that in a right-wing redneck station if you go there. Yes, it was unwise and culturally insensitive to use the word as he used it but I think its stupid to make a big deal out of it. Its easy enough to check a dictionary for the meaning of "crusade". Meaning one and two are "historical" meanings, and meaning three is "a vigorous and dedicated action or movement in favour of a cause". crusade [kruːˈseɪd] n 1. (Historical Terms) (often capital) any of the military expeditions undertaken in the 11th, 12th, and 13th centuries by the Christian powers of Europe to recapture the Holy Land from the Muslims 2. (Historical Terms) (formerly) any holy war undertaken on behalf of a religious cause 3. a vigorous and dedicated action or movement in favour of a cause vb (intr) 1. to campaign vigorously for something 2. to go on a crusade
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Post by fixit on Dec 23, 2013 2:51:19 GMT -5
Here's a list of the worlds richest countries in terms of GDP per person, including several in the Middle East. Most of them would have been colonies at some stage, including the USA. Who cares? The USA is the richest country in the world, and it has the highest rate of child poverty of any industrialized country in the world. Who cares what is the richest country in the world? Per person GDP is what matters in this discussion. Its stupid for people to blame colonial exploitation when their problems are self inflicted. Singapore and Hong Kong were British colonies and in 2012 they were third and seventh in the world for per capital income, and they don't have vast resources of oil and minerals and agricultural land.
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 23, 2013 3:36:44 GMT -5
I beg your pardon. I saw/heard the US Secretary of defense call it a crusade -- live on TV. You might even have heard that in a right-wing redneck station if you go there. Yes, it was unwise and culturally insensitive to use the word as he used it but I think its stupid to make a big deal out of it. Its easy enough to check a dictionary for the meaning of "crusade". What difference does it matter whether I knew the what the word meant or not -- I used the right word and NOW YOU KNOW IT. Was it stupid to make a big deal of it being a crusade? What do you think? It was just declaring a war on a little country that, by the way, was not guilty of either of the accusations against it and tearing the country apart and killing how many people -- oh well, they are all Muslims anyway. By the way, the total number dead is not just the number of Western soldiers who died -- many more INNOCENT people were killed than the number of US dead. Drop in the bucket of humanity -- in the support of Christianity, of course, but we won't say that because the ... oops, the stupid Muslims have already heard it. Oh well, just an insensitive little error -- they'll forget all about it as soon as .. probably by next week. Anyway, we got to contract out the majority of the US personnel in Iraq at higher wages than the military personnel, so it was quite a boon to the capitalist systems bank accounts back in the US. Of course, it was just as stupid as for the US to make a big deal about the attack on the World Trade Center. After all, even fewer were killed in that attack -- an even smaller drop in the bucket.
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Post by fixit on Dec 23, 2013 3:48:09 GMT -5
Of course, it was just as stupid as for the US to make a big deal about the attack on the World Trade Center. After all, even fewer were killed in that attack -- an even smaller drop in the bucket. A slip of the tongue was a big deal, and the World Trade Center attacks are not? Your Islamic sense of values is warped I think, but that's only my opinion.
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 23, 2013 3:56:10 GMT -5
Who cares? The USA is the richest country in the world, and it has the highest rate of child poverty of any industrialized country in the world. Who cares what is the richest country in the world? Per person GDP is what matters in this discussion. Not so. The GDP per person just skews the average far off to the side where about 10 percent of the population has 90 percent of the country's wealth. Why do I end up having to explain to you the difference between Singapore and Hong Kong, and the Middle Eastern countries. The Middle East has all the resources, and WHO GETS TO USE MOST OF THEM? Places like Singapore and Hong Kong, of course. And who in the Middle East profited most? The dictators that western governments kept in office at the expense the whole country. It all happened in the last 100 years, and the Middle Easterners did NOT give it all away -- it was taken away from them.
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 23, 2013 4:05:52 GMT -5
Of course, it was just as stupid as for the US to make a big deal about the attack on the World Trade Center. After all, even fewer were killed in that attack -- an even smaller drop in the bucket. A slip of the tongue was a big deal, and the World Trade Center attacks are not? The problem wasn't a slip of the tongue -- it was a WAR AND A DELIBERATE USE OF THE WORD "CRUSADE". Or was the Secretary of Defense dumb enough to let his tongue slip when he was justifying the war to the nation? And what do you know about my sense of values -- or my ISLAMIC SENSE OF VALUES, for that matter? I tell you something about Islamic sense of values, and you conclude that I have an Islamic sense of values. Tomorrow if someone tells you something about Gypsies sense of values, are you going to tell them they have a Gypsy sense of values? Maybe you should consider that some people know things you don't want to know -- but don't badger them because you don't like it. I can't change anything that Muslims think just because you don't want to know it -- and it doesn't make me stupid just because I know something you don't like.
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Post by fixit on Dec 23, 2013 4:44:50 GMT -5
Why do I end up having to explain to you the difference between Singapore and Hong Kong, and the Middle Eastern countries. The Middle East has all the resources, and WHO GETS TO USE MOST OF THEM? Places like Singapore and Hong Kong, of course. And who in the Middle East profited most? The dictators that western governments kept in office at the expense the whole country. It all happened in the last 100 years, and the Middle Easterners did NOT give it all away -- it was taken away from them. Then why do we actually pay for oil and make some Arabs very wealthy and run a huge deficit in America? Should we just grab it?
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Post by fixit on Dec 23, 2013 5:07:42 GMT -5
I wonder if Muslims would like America any less if the foreign aid was cut?
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