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Post by fixit on Dec 19, 2013 0:37:19 GMT -5
Here's an American Islamic expert who has a plan for FGM. He advocates genital cutting but not genital mutilation: Fixit - I think you need a good course in Christian history. What has Christian history got to do with a contemporary American Muslim expert advocating female genital cutting?
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 19, 2013 1:03:56 GMT -5
That's good to hear. You should organize the Christian community to publish its separation from those Christians' offences. Of course, you'll have to deliver the message to MUSLIMS -- telling Christians that is like preaching to the choir. How would I go about finding Christian suicide bombers to preach to? That's not who I told you to preach to. Why do you want Christian suicide bombers to preach to?
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 19, 2013 1:05:04 GMT -5
Fixit - I think you need a good course in Christian history. What has Christian history got to do with a contemporary American Muslim expert advocating female genital cutting? Nothing. It has to do with educating you.
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Post by fixit on Dec 19, 2013 3:06:04 GMT -5
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 19, 2013 4:07:14 GMT -5
I read that. He already knows that most Muslims are opposed to any kind of female genital cutting -- because he's NOT an "American Muslim" expert no matter what he calls himself, he's a PROFESSOR AT A SHARIA UNIVERSITY. If you want to ask a real AMERICAN MUSLIM expert what Muslims think of such a thing, I can put you in touch with him.
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 19, 2013 4:30:08 GMT -5
Here's his information: Dr. Aslam Abdullah Islamic Society of Nevada 4730 E Dessert In Road Las Vegas, NV 89121 702-433-3431 Lcmasjid@Gmail.com www.lvmasjid.us/welcome.htmlAnd you are welcome to tell him that Robert Williston (who took his class at College of Southern Nevada) recommended him to you.
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Post by fixit on Dec 19, 2013 6:53:28 GMT -5
I read that. He already knows that most Muslims are opposed to any kind of female genital cutting -- because he's NOT an "American Muslim" expert no matter what he calls himself, he's a PROFESSOR AT A SHARIA UNIVERSITY. If you want to ask a real AMERICAN MUSLIM expert what Muslims think of such a thing, I can put you in touch with him. Are you saying he's not American? Or that he's not a Muslim expert?
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 19, 2013 12:55:03 GMT -5
I read that. He already knows that most Muslims are opposed to any kind of female genital cutting -- because he's NOT an "American Muslim" expert no matter what he calls himself, he's a PROFESSOR AT A SHARIA UNIVERSITY. If you want to ask a real AMERICAN MUSLIM expert what Muslims think of such a thing, I can put you in touch with him. Are you saying he's not American? Or that he's not a Muslim expert? He's a specialist in Islamic/Shari'a (traditional) Law (Fiqh) -- not secular anything. He's a member of a Fatwa Committee -- which signs orders for assassinations that only al Quaida take seriously. In the real world he claims to have something to do with pediatrics. It looks to me like he specializes in Shari'a medical practices more than anything else. But don't worry -- he has no jurisdiction over your wife and children, unless you subscribe to tribal customs somewhere exotic. Who pointed you to the likes of this guy anyway?
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Post by fixit on Dec 19, 2013 13:36:04 GMT -5
Here's his information: Dr. Aslam Abdullah Islamic Society of Nevada 4730 E Dessert In Road Las Vegas, NV 89121 702-433-3431 Lcmasjid@Gmail.com www.lvmasjid.us/welcome.htmlAnd you are welcome to tell him that Robert Williston (who took his class at College of Southern Nevada) recommended him to you. Does this guy teach that female genital cutting is harmful and unislamic?
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Post by fixit on Dec 19, 2013 13:49:37 GMT -5
Are you saying he's not American? Or that he's not a Muslim expert? He's a specialist in Islamic/Shari'a (traditional) Law (Fiqh) -- not secular anything. He's a member of a Fatwa Committee -- which signs orders for assassinations that only al Quaida take seriously. In the real world he claims to have something to do with pediatrics. It looks to me like he specializes in Shari'a medical practices more than anything else. But don't worry -- he has no jurisdiction over your wife and children, unless you subscribe to tribal customs somewhere exotic. Who pointed you to the likes of this guy anyway? I found this guy online. Here's what The Islamic Supreme Council of America teaches about the qualifications needed to issue a fatwa:
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 19, 2013 18:06:45 GMT -5
Here's his information: Dr. Aslam Abdullah Islamic Society of Nevada 4730 E Dessert In Road Las Vegas, NV 89121 702-433-3431 Lcmasjid@Gmail.com www.lvmasjid.us/welcome.htmlAnd you are welcome to tell him that Robert Williston (who took his class at College of Southern Nevada) recommended him to you. Does this guy teach that female genital cutting is harmful and unislamic? I never asked him. You should ask him and see what he says.
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 19, 2013 18:12:54 GMT -5
He's a specialist in Islamic/Shari'a (traditional) Law (Fiqh) -- not secular anything. He's a member of a Fatwa Committee -- which signs orders for assassinations that only al Quaida take seriously. In the real world he claims to have something to do with pediatrics. It looks to me like he specializes in Shari'a medical practices more than anything else. But don't worry -- he has no jurisdiction over your wife and children, unless you subscribe to tribal customs somewhere exotic. Who pointed you to the likes of this guy anyway? I found this guy online. Here's what The Islamic Supreme Council of America teaches about the qualifications needed to issue a fatwa: I know that. So what? The KKK has requirements too: they only accept people who hate blacks, Catholics, Mexicans, etc. etc. These fatwa people are like the pope pronouncing that birth control is a mortal sin ... does it make any difference to you or even the vast majority of literate Catholics? Fatwas are ignored by Muslims as much as Christians ignore the KKK. The only difference is that Muslim fatwas scare Christians more, so it's better press. Solman Rushdie is alive and well and being interviewed on TV -- the fatwa demanding his assassination is now more than a decade old. I don't know exactly what point you're trying to make with all this.
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Post by Sylvestra on Dec 19, 2013 19:17:20 GMT -5
We are both courteous to all people we do business with. I didn't say you weren't courteous. I'm sure you were. I just know that you have a prejudicial attitude about Muslims. You're correct! I do!
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 19, 2013 19:23:31 GMT -5
I didn't say you weren't courteous. I'm sure you were. I just know that you have a prejudicial attitude about Muslims. You're correct! I do!
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Post by fixit on Dec 19, 2013 19:46:52 GMT -5
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Post by Mary on Dec 19, 2013 20:25:15 GMT -5
I would say both you guys (fixit and Bob) are correct. Who is to say mine is better than yours? We need a number of perspectives on any issue. Recommending one guy as the expert means nothing without a number of people's view. Saying my guy is an expert but yours is not is childish. If you wanted an expert on Christianity would you choose one guy or would you choose lots of them. The more the better. Get many views. To say one is better than the other then you learn nothing except one person's view of their religion. Each person takes out what they believe is truth about their religion. So fixit and Bob.............
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 19, 2013 20:44:58 GMT -5
Its no wonder the Islamic world is screwed up. Why don't they simply boot all the clerics who come up with stupid or evil fatwas? Probably because they believe in the First Amendment. Do you?
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 19, 2013 20:59:18 GMT -5
I would say both you guys (fixit and Bob) are correct. Who is to say mine is better than yours? We need a number of perspectives on any issue. Recommending one guy as the expert means nothing without a number of people's view. Saying my guy is an expert but yours is not is childish. If you wanted an expert on Christianity would you choose one guy or would you choose lots of them. The more the better. Get many views. To say one is better than the other then you learn nothing except one person's view of their religion. Each person takes out what they believe is truth about their religion. So fixit and Bob............. Excuse me! I thought I was addressing ignorance and hypocrisy, not right or wrong. A degree in one topic doesn't make one an expert in another topic. I reserve the right to object, for example, when someone with an MD is considered more of an expert in pedagogy than I am -- wouldn't you? Would you speak out if someone quoted the KKK as experts on Christianity? Or do you just want everyone to believe that all Muslims believe in practicing FGM? This is just a discussion, not a convention.
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 19, 2013 21:00:27 GMT -5
I would say both you guys (fixit and Bob) are correct. Who is to say mine is better than yours? We need a number of perspectives on any issue. Recommending one guy as the expert means nothing without a number of people's view. Saying my guy is an expert but yours is not is childish. If you wanted an expert on Christianity would you choose one guy or would you choose lots of them. The more the better. Get many views. To say one is better than the other then you learn nothing except one person's view of their religion. Each person takes out what they believe is truth about their religion. So fixit and Bob............. So what ...... Excuse me! I thought I was addressing ignorance and hypocrisy, not right or wrong. A degree in one topic doesn't make one an expert in another topic. I reserve the right to object, for example, when someone with an MD is considered more of an expert in pedagogy than I am -- wouldn't you? Would you speak out if someone quoted the KKK as experts on Christianity? Or do you just want everyone to believe that all Muslims believe in practicing FGM? This is just a discussion, not a convention.
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Post by fixit on Dec 19, 2013 21:36:37 GMT -5
I would say both you guys (fixit and Bob) are correct. Who is to say mine is better than yours? We need a number of perspectives on any issue. Recommending one guy as the expert means nothing without a number of people's view. Saying my guy is an expert but yours is not is childish. If you wanted an expert on Christianity would you choose one guy or would you choose lots of them. The more the better. Get many views. To say one is better than the other then you learn nothing except one person's view of their religion. Each person takes out what they believe is truth about their religion. So fixit and Bob............. So what ...... Excuse me! I thought I was addressing ignorance and hypocrisy, not right or wrong. A degree in one topic doesn't make one an expert in another topic. I reserve the right to object, for example, when someone with an MD is considered more of an expert in pedagogy than I am -- wouldn't you? Would you speak out if someone quoted the KKK as experts on Christianity? Or do you just want everyone to believe that all Muslims believe in practicing FGM? This is just a discussion, not a convention. If Muslim clerics and experts spoke out about trivial religious formalities that would be OK. Tell homosexuals that a fatwa to burn homosexuals is to be ignored. Tell fighters flocking to Syria that fatwas advocating jihad are to be ignored. Tell the little girl having her clitorus mutilated that fatwas are to be ignored.
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Post by rational on Dec 19, 2013 21:48:13 GMT -5
So is amputation. Probably equal between men and women. Although there is a very small portion of the population who voluntarily ask to have a limb(s) amputated - considered a psychological disorder but not a criminal act if performed on oneself, interestingly. OUCHHHHYou stated that sometimes circumcision was a medical necessity. I simply pointed out that amuptation is also a medical necessity at times. A man with a vasectomy can enjoy the pleasure of sex as well. But the basic sexual function remains missing.
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 19, 2013 22:06:13 GMT -5
So what ...... Excuse me! I thought I was addressing ignorance and hypocrisy, not right or wrong. A degree in one topic doesn't make one an expert in another topic. I reserve the right to object, for example, when someone with an MD is considered more of an expert in pedagogy than I am -- wouldn't you? Would you speak out if someone quoted the KKK as experts on Christianity? Or do you just want everyone to believe that all Muslims believe in practicing FGM? This is just a discussion, not a convention. If Muslim clerics and experts spoke out about trivial religious formalities that would be OK. Tell homosexuals that a fatwa to burn homosexuals is to be ignored. Tell fighters flocking to Syria that fatwas advocating jihad are to be ignored. Tell the little girl having her clitorus mutilated that fatwas are to be ignored. They do, if you're inclined to listen to them. I'll go tell them if you come with me -- otherwise I wouldn't take you seriously.
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 19, 2013 22:12:45 GMT -5
You stated that sometimes circumcision was a medical necessity. I simply pointed out that amuptation is also a medical necessity at times. I thought I had agreed with you.A man with a vasectomy can enjoy the pleasure of sex as well. But the basic sexual function remains missing. I thought I agreed with an adult's right to consent as well.
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Post by fixit on Dec 19, 2013 22:17:58 GMT -5
Look at the outrage in the Christian world today with the ousting of Phil off of duck dynasty. Christians are just as against homosexuality as the Muslims. Difference is they can't just hang them in America without getting into some serious trouble. But they don't think twice about feelings it's okay to spread hatred and intolerance for the group. My relatives at this moment are really up in arms saying Christians are being persecuted for stating their beliefs. Ironically they can't see that it's also not alright to persecute homosexuals. Well the way I see it, it's never right to spread that kind of stuff no matter what you believe. To my knowledge there's not one Muslim majority country that provides its citizens with freedom of religious expression - something we take fore-granted in the West. Of course it hasn't always been that way, and the West lagged behind Islam at some stages in history. In some ways Islamic majority countries are 400 years behind the West, partly due to reverses in progress during the 20th century.
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Post by Mary on Dec 19, 2013 22:33:59 GMT -5
That picture you posted fixit is not correct. Muslims are allowed 4 wives, not 5 or more. Also marrying your daughter is tabo in Islam as much as Christianity.
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 20, 2013 0:51:30 GMT -5
Look at the outrage in the Christian world today with the ousting of Phil off of duck dynasty. Christians are just as against homosexuality as the Muslims. Difference is they can't just hang them in America without getting into some serious trouble. But they don't think twice about feelings it's okay to spread hatred and intolerance for the group. My relatives at this moment are really up in arms saying Christians are being persecuted for stating their beliefs. Ironically they can't see that it's also not alright to persecute homosexuals. Well the way I see it, it's never right to spread that kind of stuff no matter what you believe. To my knowledge there's not one Muslim majority country that provides its citizens with freedom of religious expression - something we take fore-granted in the West. Your knowledge is deficient. These are some Muslim Majority Countries with freedoms for other religions. Some other countries with very large Muslim populations have guaranteed freedom of religion, but are not listed because Muslims do not make up more than 50% of the population. Indonesia - 4th largest country in the world, democracy, freedom of religion Pakistan - Democracy, freedom of religion Malaysia - Democracy, freedom of religion Senegal - Democracy, freedom of religion Chad - Secular republic, freedom of religion Niger - Constitutional republic, freedom of religion Mali - Secular republic, freedom of religion Gambia - Secular state, freedom of religion Guinea-Bissau - Constitutional republic, freedom of religion Djibouti - Constitutional republic, state religion Islam, freedom of practice for all religions Egypt - Constitutional republic, Laws must accommodate Islamic Law, freedom of practice for all Abrahamic religions (8 million Christians with their own Pope) Jordan - Kingdom, State religion Islam, free practice of indigenous religions (includes Christianity) unless it violates public order or morality. Syria - Republic - Christian, Druze, and Jewish minorities operate their own legal systems. Turkey - Secular republic, no laws regarding practice of religion. Azerbaijan - Secular republic, constitution liberty to practice or not practice any religion of preference. Turkmenistan - Secular republic, government oversees practice of Islam, constitutional freedom of religion and separation of religion and state. Uzbekistan - Secular republic, constitution guarantees free practice of religion and separation of religion and state. Kyrgyzstan - Secular republic, freedom of religion with strict supervision of practice of Islam. Kazakhstan - Constitutional republic, 2008 government creating a freedom of religion law, open practice of many non-Muslim religions. Qatar - State religion Islam, constitutional full freedom of public assembly and public worship. United Arab Emirates - Various courts, 25% non-Muslims practice openly, only Arab country to permit an Indian temple. 2x2 convention permitted. Law prohibits Muslims from converting to other religions. Bangladesh - State religion Islam, constitutional right to practice the religion of one's choice, subject to law, public order, and decency. Brunei - Sultanate - state religion Islam, guarantee of religious freedom with limits on distribution of no-Muslim literature. Albania - Neutral on questions of religion and conscience, only 15% of Muslim population considers religion an important aspect of their lives. Kosovo - UN mission reports respect for freedom of religion increased since civil war. Partly -- but primarily because of colonization by western countries who exploited them and supported corrupt dictatorships.
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Post by rational on Dec 20, 2013 1:39:54 GMT -5
You stated that sometimes circumcision was a medical necessity. I simply pointed out that amuptation is also a medical necessity at times. I thought I had agreed with you.I must have misread your post. This was addressing the basic definition of sexual functioning. Pleasure is not a requirement nor does in indicate that the basic function is present.
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 20, 2013 1:53:29 GMT -5
You stated that sometimes circumcision was a medical necessity. I simply pointed out that amuptation is also a medical necessity at times. I thought I had agreed with you.I must have misread your post. Makes me feel normal after all!This was addressing the basic definition of sexual functioning. Pleasure is not a requirement nor does in indicate that the basic function is present. Gee. I thought the vasectomy made me function a lot better. hahaha
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