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Post by faune on Jul 22, 2013 14:56:08 GMT -5
Here's a good illustration from this article in the New York Times recently of what happens when people wise up and start investigating the roots of their core religious beliefs, when exposed to new knowledge which comes their way. This article was shared on another thread recently and seems to indicate quite accurately the "shocking effects" that religious core beliefs have on our lives ~ especially when they are finally scrutinized in light of new information? After investigating the historical roots of the Mormon Church myself in the past as a study of interest, I was shocked at what I learned from historical records regarding Joseph Smith and his exploits and his many bizarre revelations, which all contributed to the formation of the Mormon doctrine. As an example, here's a story of a man within the hierarchy of the Mormon Church who had his core beliefs challenged by the truth and a "rude awakening" which brought many changes into his life as a result. www.nytimes.com/2013/07/21/us/some-mormons-search-the-web-and-find-doubt.html?hp&_r=0This article below deals with core beliefs and how they affect the way we live from day to day. I would appreciate your comments on any areas that stand out to you from areas described below: greenesrelease.wordpress.com/2009/06/14/how-your-core-beliefs-shape-your-experience-of-life-and-what-you-can-do-about-them/
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Post by faune on Jul 23, 2013 1:04:40 GMT -5
Perhaps I should begin this discussion by posting the Core Belief #6 which personally spoke to me today. After reading about that Mormon gentleman who had an epitomy as a result of facing the truth about his religous beliefs, he was able to re-evaluate things from a new place of strength once he grieved over his loss. However, facing truth is usually messy and not a comfortable feeling at first and usually leaves us in pain and confused and bewildered as to what to do with our new information. But, those who take a proactive stance after such a revelation usually come out on top and are very instrumental in helping others to cope and recover from their losses. Perhaps that's the "beautiful rainbow" that appears after facing truth ~ namely, the spiritual and emotional growth which usually follows such an awareness?
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Post by snow on Jul 24, 2013 15:09:40 GMT -5
What we believe will dictate our behavior. It will allow us to justify some of the most horrific things. I think everyone needs to look at their core beliefs about God and how they justify things because God would approve.
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Post by faune on Apr 1, 2014 19:11:52 GMT -5
While checking over some old threads I initiated in the past, I found this one that didn't have much activity posted and wondered why? It deals with core beliefs that shape our lives and the article I referenced in the beginning was food for thought for me about a year ago. Any comments of your own regarding this subject matter and how it has influenced your life for better or worse? I'm sure there must be some ex-2x2's out there who can relate to this story shared by a once high ranking Mormon leader? Any first takers?
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Post by Dubious Disciple (xdc) on Apr 1, 2014 21:21:08 GMT -5
Good post, faune. I've said often that a life which doesn't go through at least two spiritual revolutions is incomplete. I can't wait for my second transformation, wherever it takes me!
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Post by faune on Apr 2, 2014 0:21:54 GMT -5
Good post, faune. I've said often that a life which doesn't go through at least two spiritual revolutions is incomplete. I can't wait for my second transformation, wherever it takes me! Dubious ~ Thanks for being the first to comment to this resurrected thread of mine. I definitely agree that a life that hasn't gone through at least a couple spiritual transformations would be incomplete. After all, as human beings, we continue to evolve as long as we learn from our mistakes and continue to seek wisdom and truth within this life. The knowledge we gain along the way is what transforms us within into a better person, IMHO? But, before we can move on into the Light, we have to leave the Darkness behind ~ whatever that may have come to represent in our lives. Don't you agree?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2014 8:39:05 GMT -5
I don't want to oversimplify this issue here but there are two little aphorisms things that seem pretty accurate:
"You become what you think about."
and
"You are what you believe."
Both of these things shape the core of our being and existence. I think it's a good thing though to have both on the table all the time for inspection and review to make them better.
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Post by faune on Apr 2, 2014 12:05:21 GMT -5
I don't want to oversimplify this issue here but there are two little aphorisms things that seem pretty accurate: "You become what you think about." and "You are what you believe." Both of these things shape the core of our being and existence. I think it's a good thing though to have both on the table all the time for inspection and review to make them better. Clearday ~ They are two simple truths in the form of aphorisms that really do seem to apply here. Thanks for sharing! What we tend to meditate on normally does seem to have a whole lot to do with what we become later on in life for good or bad? For instance, people who are focused on leading others usually end up in a place of power within government. Also, people who are focused on evil behavior usually end up in jail or the headlines for some terrible offense, such as in CSA. For sure, wherever the mind leads us, man is bound to follow, for better or worse!
This thought reminds me of what Jesus said about the fruit of a tree is known by the fruit it bears from Luke 6:43-44.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2014 12:20:54 GMT -5
I don't want to oversimplify this issue here but there are two little aphorisms things that seem pretty accurate: "You become what you think about." and "You are what you believe." Both of these things shape the core of our being and existence. I think it's a good thing though to have both on the table all the time for inspection and review to make them better. Clearday ~ They are two simple truths in the form of aphorisms that really seem to apply here. Thanks for sharing. What we tend to meditate on does seem to have a whole lot to do with what we become later on for good or bad? For instance, people who are focused on leading others usually end up in a place of power within government. Also, people who are focused on evil behavior usually end up in jail or the headlines for some terrible offense, such as in CSA. For sure, wherever the mind leads us, man is bound to follow, for better or worse! One thing about having your thoughts and beliefs up for review all the time is that you will never get rocked to the core like so many do who invest their soul in some way of thinking or set of beliefs such as the fellow in your OP. About a decade and a half ago, I decided to re-orient myself to being a "truth seeker" for the rest of my life. It doesn't sound like a big deal but it really is a huge paradigm shift, more so for some than for others. That turned out to be a really good move. I make adjustments to my worldview and beliefs all the time as new information comes in, and even old strongly held views are much easier to correct or improve. Changes are much easier to make and I am never trying to frustratingly fit square pegs into round holes anymore.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2014 12:25:47 GMT -5
isn't that alot like building your house upon the sands? ever shifting no solid foundation?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2014 12:31:56 GMT -5
isn't that alot like building your house upon the sands? ever shifting no solid foundation? Quite the opposite. It's like digging deeper all the time to get to the bedrock.
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Post by faune on Apr 2, 2014 13:48:45 GMT -5
Clearday ~ They are two simple truths in the form of aphorisms that do really seem to apply here. Thanks for sharing! What we tend to meditate on normally does seem to have a whole lot to do with what we become later on in life for good or bad? For instance, people who are focused on leading others usually end up in a place of power within government or the workplace. Also, people who are focused on evil behavior usually end up in jail or the headlines for some terrible offense, such as in CSA. For sure, wherever the mind leads us, man is bound to follow, for better or worse! One thing about having your thoughts and beliefs up for review all the time is that you will never get rocked to the core like so many do who invest their soul in some way of thinking or set of beliefs such as the fellow in your OP. About a decade and a half ago, I decided to re-orient myself to being a "truth seeker" for the rest of my life. It doesn't sound like a big deal but it really is a huge paradigm shift, more so for some than for others. That turned out to be a really good move. I make adjustments to my worldview and beliefs all the time as new information comes in, and even old strongly held views are much easier to correct or improve. Changes are much easier to make and I am never trying to frustratingly fit square pegs into round holes anymore. Clearday ~ How well I can relate to your re-orientation to become a "truth seeker" at a certain point in your life instead of being locked in a mind-set you are forever wrestling to uphold. My days within the 2x2's was a "real learning experience" for me as I look back on my life today.
During the last couple of years I have also embarked on a journey to discover the truth about things that I once took for granted and held as rock solid beliefs. It has been quite a learning experience for me along the way, as I'm sure you have found to be the same in your life, too. I see things from a different paradigm today than I saw in the past and I feel better as a result of this new found freedom to explore the "core of my beliefs." It's definite a more solid foundation to view this life or any after-life in the making, IMHO. In the process, I have not thrown off my Christian beliefs, but I have "re-defined" them, based upon new knowledge gained along the way. It's because of this fact that I can view others of different religions and beliefs in a whole new light compared to past days when I was more inclined towards exclusivity in my beliefs and even condemnation of others for being different and not following my chosen path within the 2x2's.
No doubt my threads and posts reflect this new found liberty I enjoy today as a result of this " paradigm shift" in my own worldview and beliefs? I agree that when new found information comes along, it's much easier to make adjustments in my perspective than it was in the past when I felt bound to defend 2x2 beliefs when my gut told me different. I believe there is a term used for this struggle to rectify things in our mind that escapes common sense? It's like you find yourself in a "Catch 22" situation in which you are unable to clearly rationalize things due to being locked in a mindset which hinders enlightenment? I believe I did a thread on this topic on TLC in the past, but the term used to define it totally escapes me at this time. Can anybody help me out of this dilemma due to the "brain freeze" I'm presently experiencing?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2014 13:58:10 GMT -5
Cognitive dissonance?
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Post by faune on Apr 2, 2014 14:02:14 GMT -5
Thank you, Clearday! Would you believe that the cobwebs actually dissipated from my mind after I posted my response to you? I believe this definition fits in quite well to this discussion on core beliefs, wouldn't you agree? People can get locked into a mindset which enables them from seeing things clearly in the light of day. I've been there in the past and still struggle to stay clear of being caught up again in such a trap of the mind. That's why it's so important to daily evaluate our beliefs in light of reality and new found knowledge to avoid such "pitfalls" along life's spiritual journey.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance
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Post by faune on Apr 2, 2014 14:14:14 GMT -5
I could really relate to some of these examples of cognitive dissonance in my eating habits, too, since trying to control weight gain seems an uphill battle for me since retirement. I'm not as active as I used to be when young, so I really have to concentrate on curving my appetite and following healthy eating habits. I have been guilty a few times of #4 below, I shamefully must admit.
As I say this, do you notice that my new deer avatar is eating popcorn at this very minute?
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Post by xna on Apr 2, 2014 14:17:53 GMT -5
Plato told a nice story to illustrate differences in our perception of what is real. youtu.be/d2afuTvUzBQSent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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Post by faune on Apr 2, 2014 14:29:44 GMT -5
isn't that alot like building your house upon the sands? ever shifting no solid foundation? Quite the opposite. It's like digging deeper all the time to get to the bedrock. Clearday ~ Ditto!
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Post by faune on Apr 2, 2014 14:32:35 GMT -5
Plato told a nice story to illustrate differences in our perception of what is real. youtu.be/d2afuTvUzBQ Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Xna ~ I'm so glad you presented "Plato's Cave" in this thread, as it pertains so well to cognitive dissonance, which I just brought up previously.
Here's a comic version of the same story on You-tube by a college student's video presentation in his Philosophy class. Please forgive the language, as it's pretty colorful in places. However, it's a modern day comic version of the same premise regarding Plato's Cave.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoOVFO4Qnqg (Plato's Allegory of the Cave)
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Post by faune on Apr 2, 2014 14:41:54 GMT -5
Xna ~ Here's another video presentation on the analysis of Plato's Cave, which is quite interesting to watch. This college professor doing the presentation in the second video looks like Moses to me. Around the 7 minute mark in this short video, the instructor goes into the liberation effect of discovering "truth" from new knowledge. He likens it to an epiphany caused by an electrifying fish biting its subject and bringing about new enlightenment. This video also goes into Neoplatonism in the development of Judaism and early Christianity, around the first century, and continues down through the following centuries of the RCC's history at this same marker. Basically, the moral of this story is that the "unexamined life is not worth living" in the analogy of Plato's Cave.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVN5PRpM_1Y
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoplatonism_and_Christianity
www.youtube.com/watch?v=axARKd24eHo
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Post by faune on Apr 2, 2014 19:57:24 GMT -5
What we believe will dictate our behavior. It will allow us to justify some of the most horrific things. I think everyone needs to look at their core beliefs about God and how they justify things because God would approve. Snow ~ You bring out a good point here, as I think of some of the violence associated in the past with abortion clinics. They became the target of some Christian fundamentalists whose peaceful protests of these clinics suddenly turned into real violence at more than one of these abortion facilities. Just check out the links below for the statistics associated with such protests. They stand out as real examples of behavior gone haywire due to people's religious beliefs and acting out accordingly.
www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/violence/
www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/violence/history_extreme.asp
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Post by SharonArnold on Apr 2, 2014 20:18:47 GMT -5
isn't that alot like building your house upon the sands? ever shifting no solid foundation? Quite the opposite. It's like digging deeper all the time to get to the bedrock. I came across a quote a number of years ago - and I have kicked myself many times since because I did not note the source or the exact wording. In effect, it was "It is a wonderful thing to be born into a religion; it is a terrible thing to die in one."
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Post by snow on Apr 2, 2014 22:11:02 GMT -5
Quite the opposite. It's like digging deeper all the time to get to the bedrock. I came across a quote a number of years ago - and I have kicked myself many times since because I did not note the source or the exact wording. In effect, it was "It is a wonderful thing to be born into a religion; it is a terrible thing to die in one." I sometimes think religion is for those who need a road map to be safe and tell them where to go, while spirituality is for those who are ready to take that flying leap into the abyss. Scary, but exhilarating. To really get to those amazing places you need to go 'off road'.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2014 23:01:58 GMT -5
I came across a quote a number of years ago - and I have kicked myself many times since because I did not note the source or the exact wording. In effect, it was "It is a wonderful thing to be born into a religion; it is a terrible thing to die in one." I sometimes think religion is for those who need a road map to be safe and tell them where to go, while spirituality is for those who are ready to take that flying leap into the abyss. Scary, but exhilarating. To really get to those amazing places you need to go 'off road'. I think there is a lot of truth to that idea. Some people do need it all laid out in detail and others can live in the "spirit". Some people are classical musicians, and some are jazz musicians which are entirely different genres where one is extremely regimented and the other is best played improvisational.
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Post by faune on Apr 5, 2014 22:58:13 GMT -5
I came across a quote a number of years ago - and I have kicked myself many times since because I did not note the source or the exact wording. In effect, it was "It is a wonderful thing to be born into a religion; it is a terrible thing to die in one." I sometimes think religion is for those who need a road map to be safe and tell them where to go, while spirituality is for those who are ready to take that flying leap into the abyss. Scary, but exhilarating. To really get to those amazing places you need to go 'off road'. Snow ~ I believe you may be hitting onto something here about religion being for those who feel comfortable with a roadmap whereas "spirituality is for those who are ready to take that flying leap into the abyss." From my studies into New Age spirituality recently to discover what it's all about, I got the same impression that it's not for the faint of heart but for those who are willing to risk the unknown to gain new knowledge of their Creator and the universe. I'm sure such people simply don't like being fenced in and like to be able to explore freely the great outdoors and the mysteries that are out there to discover.
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Post by snow on Apr 6, 2014 10:45:14 GMT -5
I sometimes think religion is for those who need a road map to be safe and tell them where to go, while spirituality is for those who are ready to take that flying leap into the abyss. Scary, but exhilarating. To really get to those amazing places you need to go 'off road'. Snow ~ I believe you may be hitting onto something here about religion being for those who feel comfortable with a roadmap whereas "spiritual is for those who are ready to take that flying leap into the abyss." From my studies into New Age spirituality recently to discover what it's all about, I got the same impression that it's not for the faint of heart but for those who are willing to risk the unknown to gain new knowledge of their Creator and the universe. I'm sure such people simply don't like being fenced in and like to be able to explore freely the great outdoors and the mysteries that are out there to discover. In a way, that's what the Gnostics were trying to do before they got suppressed by the traditional church. They didn't believe in hierarchy, dogma, but a personal exploration of what it meant to be spiritual. They felt that traditional religion was the 'milk' for newborns on their journey to know God. However, they definitely felt there was another level which was the 'meat' once you understood better. The traditional church of that time mocked this by criticizing the Gnostics for not writing these higher levels of spirituality down. What they didn't understand is that it was too advanced and therefore not understandable by many at the 'milk' level. Also, it wasn't something that could become dogma because it was an 'individual' 'personal' experience and can't be made into rules or dogma at that level. So traditional church, with dogma and doctrine has it's place in the beginning, but to grow you need to go beyond that. They still got together and gathered as like minded people, but it wasn't about hierarchy teaching others as much as each of them sharing their growth and personal experience in their quest to have a personal relationship with God.
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Post by faune on Apr 6, 2014 18:00:20 GMT -5
Snow ~ I believe you may be hitting onto something here about religion being for those who feel comfortable with a roadmap whereas "spirituality is for those who are ready to take that flying leap into the abyss." From my studies into New Age spirituality recently to discover what it's all about, I got the same impression that it's not for the faint of heart but for those who are willing to risk the unknown to gain new knowledge of their Creator and the universe. I'm sure such people simply don't like being fenced in and like to be able to explore freely the great outdoors and the mysteries that are out there to discover. In a way, that's what the Gnostics were trying to do before they got suppressed by the traditional church. They didn't believe in hierarchy, dogma, but a personal exploration of what it meant to be spiritual. They felt that traditional religion was the 'milk' for newborns on their journey to know God. However, they definitely felt there was another level which was the 'meat' once you understood better. The traditional church of that time mocked this by criticizing the Gnostics for not writing these higher levels of spirituality down. What they didn't understand is that it was too advanced and therefore not understandable by many at the 'milk' level. Also, it wasn't something that could become dogma because it was an 'individual' 'personal' experience and can't be made into rules or dogma at that level. So traditional church, with dogma and doctrine has it's place in the beginning, but to grow you need to go beyond that. They still got together and gathered as like minded people, but it wasn't about hierarchy teaching others as much as each of them sharing their growth and personal experience in their quest to have a personal relationship with God. In other words, the traditionalists took all the life out of religion and left the corpse to remain? From studying a little about the Gnostic beliefs in past months, I realized why they were persecuted so much by the RCC. They definitely had conflicting views and the victors got to choose what was considered orthodox and labeled the other as heretical according to history.
Sharon Arnold shared earlier...
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Post by snow on Apr 7, 2014 9:28:21 GMT -5
faune, I think it would be more accurate to say that the two are both needed, it's just that the one that didn't see things clearly decided the other needed to go?
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Post by faune on Aug 25, 2014 17:05:31 GMT -5
Clearday ~ They are two simple truths in the form of aphorisms that really seem to apply here. Thanks for sharing. What we tend to meditate on does seem to have a whole lot to do with what we become later on for good or bad? For instance, people who are focused on leading others usually end up in a place of power within government. Also, people who are focused on evil behavior usually end up in jail or the headlines for some terrible offense, such as in CSA. For sure, wherever the mind leads us, man is bound to follow, for better or worse! One thing about having your thoughts and beliefs up for review all the time is that you will never get rocked to the core like so many do who invest their soul in some way of thinking or set of beliefs such as the fellow in your OP. About a decade and a half ago, I decided to re-orient myself to being a "truth seeker" for the rest of my life. It doesn't sound like a big deal but it really is a huge paradigm shift, more so for some than for others. That turned out to be a really good move. I make adjustments to my worldview and beliefs all the time as new information comes in, and even old strongly held views are much easier to correct or improve. Changes are much easier to make and I am never trying to frustratingly fit square pegs into round holes anymore. Lately my thoughts have been going again to core beliefs and how they affect our lives. What Clearday shared earlier this year about his decision to become a "truth seeker" at a particular point in his life and follow where it leads, came back to mind recently. There are so many thoughts shared on this Board about the feasibility of God's existence, that I decide to do some research myself over the past 1-1/2 years into the roots of Christianity along with other religions. I was shocked to discover that they all have things in common.
Recently I have been pursuing research on the existence of a Creator God behind the universe and was made aware of a book that a famous atheist co-wrote with Roy A. Varghese entitled "There Is No A God." I don't know how many have heard of this book or even read it themselves, but it's a fascinating read for the inquisitive mind who is still open to new knowledge.
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