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May 28, 2013 6:58:20 GMT -5
Post by CherieKropp on May 28, 2013 6:58:20 GMT -5
Nate - who are you talking about when you refer to the "New Admin"??
Did I miss our on this change - or are you confused?
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May 28, 2013 7:31:23 GMT -5
Post by CherieKropp on May 28, 2013 7:31:23 GMT -5
I recalled thinking that perhaps God didn't want this sister worker to be in Hungary, or he would have opened up a way for her to stay that didnt compromise this non-organized church into incorporating to provide for it.
November, 1996: Willis Propp wrote a letter of explanation
“To All of Concern,” dated November 9, 1996. He stated that "one of the Workers in Hungary, whose visa was soon to expire, was faced with the problem of being refused permission to remain in the country because the 'Group' she was representing was not a registered body in Hungary. Our sister who labours there was companion to the girl in question and she appealed urgently to us that we do something it about (sic) because any approach they made to the local authorities was to no avail and they needed help badly.
Above that there was a deadline to meet. Hungary would accept our Registration as backing…we sought a Lawyer's aid and as a result a very complicated document was made up. We learned to our dismay that to be registered we had to become incorporated as a non-profit Society. While it was solely for the purpose of those in Authority, the document gave us a long handled name. We were hesitant to do it, but for the sake of our Workers in Hungary, we signed the document."
The incorporation of the fellowship gave the church/fellowship a legal identity along with the means to sponsor and support Workers going to preach in foreign countries. Reportedly, Willis Propp was responsible for the funding of Canadian Workers serving in foreign lands. The name of the sister Worker in distress was Anne Court from Scotland. She was the companion of Ester Laslo, an Alberta worker laboring in Hungary. Anne's name was not made publiHONKYTONK-HOEDOWN-WHOOPTYDOOil the Dorey-Steingard case when Willis revealed it when questioned by an attorney, and it was recorded in the Court Transcript. Willis answered to an attorney: "It was because of the group of workers in Hungary and they required registration. That's the only reason we did it, because we didn't need it here. They just required backing from us."
The Vietnam situation brought this to mind again - Would God who can do all things not provide a legitimate above board way for workers and other preachers to go into a country if/when that is His will? Why rush it? Why not just wait on Him to do it in His way and His timing?
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May 28, 2013 7:49:04 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on May 28, 2013 7:49:04 GMT -5
I recalled thinking that perhaps God didn't want this sister worker to be in Hungary, or he would have opened up a way for her to stay that didnt compromise this non-organized church into incorporating to provide for it. November, 1996: Willis Propp wrote a letter of explanation “To All of Concern,” dated November 9, 1996. He stated that "one of the Workers in Hungary, whose visa was soon to expire, was faced with the problem of being refused permission to remain in the country because the 'Group' she was representing was not a registered body in Hungary. Our sister who labours there was companion to the girl in question and she appealed urgently to us that we do something it about (sic) because any approach they made to the local authorities was to no avail and they needed help badly.
Above that there was a deadline to meet. Hungary would accept our Registration as backing…we sought a Lawyer's aid and as a result a very complicated document was made up. We learned to our dismay that to be registered we had to become incorporated as a non-profit Society. While it was solely for the purpose of those in Authority, the document gave us a long handled name. We were hesitant to do it, but for the sake of our Workers in Hungary, we signed the document."
The incorporation of the fellowship gave the church/fellowship a legal identity along with the means to sponsor and support Workers going to preach in foreign countries. Reportedly, Willis Propp was responsible for the funding of Canadian Workers serving in foreign lands. The name of the sister Worker in distress was Anne Court from Scotland. She was the companion of Ester Laslo, an Alberta worker laboring in Hungary. Anne's name was not made publiHONKYTONK-HOEDOWN-WHOOPTYDOOil the Dorey-Steingard case when Willis revealed it when questioned by an attorney, and it was recorded in the Court Transcript. Willis answered to an attorney: "It was because of the group of workers in Hungary and they required registration. That's the only reason we did it, because we didn't need it here. They just required backing from us."
The Vietnam situation brought this to mind again - Would God who can do all things not provide a legitimate above board way for workers and other preachers to go into a country if/when that is His will? Why rush it? Why not just wait on Him to do it in His way and His timing? When I heard about the purpose of the Society years ago, I thought Willis did the right thing by taking steps to fulfill the legal requirements of working in foreign countries. That's the way workers should operate: above board and within the law. In Willis' example, God had already opened up a way to get into those Eastern European countries: by setting up a non-profit Society and supporting the foreign workers that way and Willis simply took that legitimate way. With the rejection of Willis' legal route for foreign workers, we now have the more preferred route: lying on visas and failing to comply with the legal requirements of registering in the country. These two events are connected I believe. The current workers know keenly what happened to Willis when he tried to comply with the laws of the land. These workers would prefer to risk jail for their illegal activities than risk censure from their own group for complying with the laws of the land. We have something worse developing here than Willis' non-profit Society.
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May 28, 2013 8:25:31 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on May 28, 2013 8:25:31 GMT -5
I agree that the Society that Willis instituted at that time solved a problem with the authorities -- and that doing things openly before ourselves and the authorities around would have been the honest way to go.
However Willis decision wasn't done in the name of honesty -- it was done hidden from all of the folks that he had claimed the fellowship was different from the rest of the world in that it was not registered with the government. Willis tried as long as he could to keep this information away from public knowledge --- and at the same time the doctrinal denial of an organization was spread to everyone who asked.
So at this point it time (today), there is dishonesty both ways -- clearly before authorities and the lied about real purpose of workers presence in a country -- and before all the general public in the denial of organization with their head only in heaven!!!!
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May 28, 2013 8:41:08 GMT -5
Post by sacerdotal on May 28, 2013 8:41:08 GMT -5
To me, the numbers are not all that significant-- . The pain involved for the folks that wrote this letter (and their family and closer friends), is sufficient to make this a very serious matter. The story awakens memories in some of us that make it impossible for us to simply "turn our heads the other way and shuffle by on the other side of the road". (as a the inbred 2x2 reaction obviously is) I am somewhat surprised that even on this list, there seems to be pressure to 'sweep it under the rug' and banish the issue to the stinky realms of the non-identifiable --- Under the rug that so effectively hides it from the Christian 'light of life'. I feel for the agony, distress and frustration that this poor older couple must feel as they realize that the organization they have given their lives and family to (for 52 years), have now simply turned their backs on them, and betrayed the very principles they had proudly stood for in the communities they lived in -- simply for an issue of power, and to prove 'who was the greatest'!!!. I remember the feeling!! Edgar Edgar, You are my hero. Exactly. As long as there is ONE family being hurt by corruptness or bullying- that is ONE to many. I will have to share my story with you sometime. It seems almost identical to your own. Thanks, Sac
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May 28, 2013 8:57:11 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on May 28, 2013 8:57:11 GMT -5
I agree that the Society that Willis instituted at that time solved a problem with the authorities -- and that doing things openly before ourselves and the authorities around would have been the honest way to go. However Willis decision wasn't done in the name of honesty -- it was done hidden from all of the folks that he had claimed the fellowship was different from the rest of the world in that it was not registered with the government. Willis tried as long as he could to keep this information away from public knowledge --- and at the same time the doctrinal denial of an organization was spread to everyone who asked. So at this point it time (today), there is dishonesty both ways -- clearly before authorities and the lied about real purpose of workers presence in a country -- and before all the general public in the denial of organization with their head only in heaven!!!! Yes, I was going to point out Willis' attempts to conceal his efforts at creating the Society, but I thought it was irrelevant to the topic of "God opening up a way" that Cherie brought out. The concealment and deception of the Society was just part of the slippery slope that we now see the VN ministry being conducted which is worse that what Willis did with the Society. Once you, as a group, begin to accept deception as a valid practice, there is no stopping how far it will go. In VN though, the practice of deception began before the Society was ever founded. I first became aware of it 20 years ago when a Western businessman set up a business there and "hired" workers to get them into the country. This was seen as heroic by many people, and the deception worth it. Deception becomes acceptable when the principle is "the ends justify the means". Deception is becoming more and more normalized. Today, we have workers who won't preach exclusivity but await signs in their new prospective converts that exclusivity is being "revealed" to them. And when asked about exclusivity, they say "oh we don't judge". This deception is now a foundation of the worker ministry. It cannot lead to anything good. Can we blame the workers for deception? Maybe not, look at Abram (with Sara), Isaac (stealing the birthright), and David (pretending to be insane), and you have a trail of deception being practiced by revered bible figures. Then you have "be wise as serpents, and harmless as doves" as the interpreted authorization of practicing deception.
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May 28, 2013 9:18:53 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on May 28, 2013 9:18:53 GMT -5
Yes Clearday, the old testament will justify the most vile of behavior known to man -- including the virtue of planing to kill your own children -sex with your own daughters - or having 1000 concubines -- or countless instances of what today would be regarded as genocide and crimes against humanity -- killing everyone within sight (with the sword). 2x2ism (and most other extremist Christian religion) have proven that if the Christian spirit of love, forgiveness, kindness and understanding should defy their plans for power and place ... then there is always justification in old testament stories to excuse what ever kind of violent and vile behavior that would be deemed necessary to achieve their ends. A very sick philosophy in my world!!!
Check out this story in Vietnam at the moment.
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May 28, 2013 10:12:17 GMT -5
Post by quizzer on May 28, 2013 10:12:17 GMT -5
I recalled thinking that perhaps God didn't want this sister worker to be in Hungary, or he would have opened up a way for her to stay that didnt compromise this non-organized church into incorporating to provide for it. November, 1996: Willis Propp wrote a letter of explanation “To All of Concern,” dated November 9, 1996. He stated that "one of the Workers in Hungary, whose visa was soon to expire, was faced with the problem of being refused permission to remain in the country because the 'Group' she was representing was not a registered body in Hungary. Our sister who labours there was companion to the girl in question and she appealed urgently to us that we do something it about (sic) because any approach they made to the local authorities was to no avail and they needed help badly.
Above that there was a deadline to meet. Hungary would accept our Registration as backing…we sought a Lawyer's aid and as a result a very complicated document was made up. We learned to our dismay that to be registered we had to become incorporated as a non-profit Society. While it was solely for the purpose of those in Authority, the document gave us a long handled name. We were hesitant to do it, but for the sake of our Workers in Hungary, we signed the document."
The incorporation of the fellowship gave the church/fellowship a legal identity along with the means to sponsor and support Workers going to preach in foreign countries. Reportedly, Willis Propp was responsible for the funding of Canadian Workers serving in foreign lands. The name of the sister Worker in distress was Anne Court from Scotland. She was the companion of Ester Laslo, an Alberta worker laboring in Hungary. Anne's name was not made publiHONKYTONK-HOEDOWN-WHOOPTYDOOil the Dorey-Steingard case when Willis revealed it when questioned by an attorney, and it was recorded in the Court Transcript. Willis answered to an attorney: "It was because of the group of workers in Hungary and they required registration. That's the only reason we did it, because we didn't need it here. They just required backing from us."
The Vietnam situation brought this to mind again - Would God who can do all things not provide a legitimate above board way for workers and other preachers to go into a country if/when that is His will? Why rush it? Why not just wait on Him to do it in His way and His timing? When I heard about the purpose of the Society years ago, I thought Willis did the right thing by taking steps to fulfill the legal requirements of working in foreign countries. That's the way workers should operate: above board and within the law. In Willis' example, God had already opened up a way to get into those Eastern European countries: by setting up a non-profit Society and supporting the foreign workers that way and Willis simply took that legitimate way. With the rejection of Willis' legal route for foreign workers, we now have the more preferred route: lying on visas and failing to comply with the legal requirements of registering in the country. These two events are connected I believe. The current workers know keenly what happened to Willis when he tried to comply with the laws of the land. These workers would prefer to risk jail for their illegal activities than risk censure from their own group for complying with the laws of the land. We have something worse developing here than Willis' non-profit Society. Out of curiousity, clearday, from whom did the censure originate? Was it simply because the friends didn't want to tell anyone that the 2x2s have a name when there would be a registered name? I'm suffering from the concept that Willis wanted to be above board on only one matter - registration. However, that action blew a hole in all the other things kept covered up - worker monies, 2x2 history, strong hierarchical leadership, you name it.
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May 28, 2013 10:21:36 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on May 28, 2013 10:21:36 GMT -5
quizzer -- Willis didn't form this society to be honest -- he did it because he felt that there was no other way at the moment.(and he was likely correct in this!!) Willis never ever has been concerned about honesty - His perceived 'virtuous end' , has always justified every vile means he could think of to achieve it -- including mass excommunication and dishonesty and deception of every known sort. If you need them there are countless examples. DS has inherited these 'qualities' from him
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May 28, 2013 10:42:52 GMT -5
Post by CherieKropp on May 28, 2013 10:42:52 GMT -5
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May 28, 2013 10:58:37 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on May 28, 2013 10:58:37 GMT -5
Did Paul, Peter, John or others run away from the consequences of preaching the gospel?
Why should workers to day not suffer the consequences for doing right? Does it not say they will receive blessing for suffering on earth?
Many of us have suffered the consequences for standing up for what is true and moral.
Not using the workers names is just wrong. They should go out by faith and trust God not to give them more then he will supply the strength to bear.
Admid. DO NOT COVER FOR IMMORAL AND UNJUST MEN. LETS SEE HOW MUCH FAITH THEY REALLY HAVE!!!!!
I have faith that God will that care of his TRUE SERVANTS!!!!
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May 28, 2013 12:28:58 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on May 28, 2013 12:28:58 GMT -5
Nathan9 -- Do you know what it was that got the Canadian workers involved in Vietnam? I personally know the workers names that have turned up in this discussion, but have no idea how they got involved in Vietnam. To my knowledge the Vietnamese field is not a traditional one for workers from Western Canada (Saskatchewan is my home field)--- At least it wasn't when I left the fellowship 2001. I have been companion with Morris Grovum, and Dale Shultz and have known Darryl Turner quite well although he comes from Alberta.
Unfortunately all these workers have been tarred with Willis Propps doctrinal brush regarding the "divine nature of the work".
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2013 12:51:12 GMT -5
When I heard about the purpose of the Society years ago, I thought Willis did the right thing by taking steps to fulfill the legal requirements of working in foreign countries. That's the way workers should operate: above board and within the law. In Willis' example, God had already opened up a way to get into those Eastern European countries: by setting up a non-profit Society and supporting the foreign workers that way and Willis simply took that legitimate way. With the rejection of Willis' legal route for foreign workers, we now have the more preferred route: lying on visas and failing to comply with the legal requirements of registering in the country. These two events are connected I believe. The current workers know keenly what happened to Willis when he tried to comply with the laws of the land. These workers would prefer to risk jail for their illegal activities than risk censure from their own group for complying with the laws of the land. We have something worse developing here than Willis' non-profit Society. Out of curiousity, clearday, from whom did the censure originate? Was it simply because the friends didn't want to tell anyone that the 2x2s have a name when there would be a registered name? I'm suffering from the concept that Willis wanted to be above board on only one matter - registration. However, that action blew a hole in all the other things kept covered up - worker monies, 2x2 history, strong hierarchical leadership, you name it. There was a movement among the friends swirling around over a variety of issues. The only "censure" (disapproval/criticism) that occurred prior to the excommunications came from the friends, many of whom voiced their concerns, while others refused accommodations to some workers. The other overseers fully supported Willis, at least openly, until well after the excommunications. (There were some private detractors.) It was only well after the excommunications (which were also supported by luminaries such as EldonT) that he faced censure from other overseers who finally removed him from his perch based on all the uproar it caused among even the more moderate friends. As Edgar pointed out, the Society wasn't some sneaky new way of organizing the F&Ws, it was merely for helping workers get into foreign countries. Willis would have known it would have been controversial though, hence the secrecy over doing it. Where Willis really misjudged is that while some friends would have complained over the Society because of the "no organization, no name" pet doctrine, most of the friends would have at least reluctantly accepted it for the reasons given and no uproar would have occurred. I think most friends will ultimately accept the practical solutions. As in most problems, the real hurts often come over the sense of deception and betrayal. As human beings, we can usually tolerate a lot of mistakes and bad stuff when dealt with openly and honestly, but we really get upset when we are lied to and our trust is betrayed.
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May 28, 2013 13:56:30 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on May 28, 2013 13:56:30 GMT -5
Nathan9 -- Do you know what it was that got the Canadian workers involved in Vietnam? I personally know the workers names that have turned up in this discussion, but have no idea how they got involved in Vietnam. To my knowledge the Vietnamese field is not a traditional one for workers from Western Canada (Saskatchewan is my home field)--- At least it wasn't when I left the fellowship 2001. I have been companion with Morris G, and Dale S. and have known Darryl T. quite well although he comes from Alberta. Unfortunately all these workers have been tarred with Willis Propps doctrinal brush regarding the "divine nature of the work". It went back to Cliff T. days. I met him when I was in the work. I hope these Canadians workers have learned their lessons NOT to repeat their mistakes from Willis P. excommunication in Alberta. They need Work with the natives. If the workers in Alberta had been honest, answering questions truthfully things would NOT have gotten out of hands.Thanks for that connection Nathan -- Is Cliff still living or has he passed away ... I knew him slightly as he was from BC -- but that does make somewhat of a connection as to why the Canadians would feel they should involve themselves there. Western Canada has had more of a presence in Korea and this was maybe their way of further 'colonizing' in that part of Asia - Alberta has sizable finacial muscle (thanks to Willis) so it wouldn't surprize me if this is involved. -- Don't hold your breath until the Canadian workers learn any such lessons!!
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May 28, 2013 14:15:52 GMT -5
Post by Greg on May 28, 2013 14:15:52 GMT -5
Was the commandment "Thou shalt not cross into another field to visit, preach, teach, or comfort, but only to travel through" not known to those who violated such?
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May 28, 2013 14:41:50 GMT -5
Post by jondough on May 28, 2013 14:41:50 GMT -5
Are we sure that territory/fields is the main problem?
I think there is a lot more to it than that. This is why one of the workers was moved to another area to get use to the way things are normally done. Again, I'm going out on a limb to say that things were not being done as we are use to, and possibly testimonies and prayers didn't have the normal 2X2 ring to them.
Am I off base?
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May 28, 2013 14:57:25 GMT -5
Post by Greg on May 28, 2013 14:57:25 GMT -5
Are we sure that territory/fields is the main problem? I think there is a lot more to it than that. This is why one of the workers was moved to another area to get use to the way things are normally done. Again, I'm going out on a limb to say that things were not being done as we are use to, and possibly testimonies and prayers didn't have the normal 2X2 ring to them. Am I off base? Do you mean in the Viet Nam situation?
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May 28, 2013 15:28:44 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on May 28, 2013 15:28:44 GMT -5
Greg, I agree that this is only (as it was for Marg Magowan) a dishonest excuse for getting rid of an uncomfortable worker. Workers cross borders all the time, and in my experience there was never a need to clear things first with the responsible workers. I have been companions to responsible workers (amongst other Dale Shultz) and we often crossed over to other fields and provinces and countries to visit. This only becomes and issue when power politics becomes the prime issue. In Margs case it was her loving concern for some of the excommunicated friends in Alberta (the parents of one of the friends in her field in Saskatcheway) that brought about the ire of the powers that be. She was undoubtadly aware of the serior workers feelings on the matter, so insubordination was a crime she choose to be guilty of. I haven't gotten the exact issues involved in Vietnamn, but from what I have been able to gather thus far, the issue was the same -- Canadian workers demand for the native workers to bow down and worship them -- and they choose to do otherwise. So they were expelled from the work in their own country. This older couple the subject of this thread, choose to support them -- and thus they have been rejected as well. These same Canadian workers are famous for their belief in their superior moral standing before God in Canada/US where Dale works now --- so the issue is not really surprizing. DS is the exact same worker that instigated Marg Magowans expulsion from the work. Check this out: www.anotherstep.net/summary/summary.6.htm
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May 28, 2013 15:49:57 GMT -5
Post by Greg on May 28, 2013 15:49:57 GMT -5
Greg, I agree that this is only (as it was for Marg Magowan) a dishonest excuse for getting rid of an uncomfortable worker. Workers cross borders all the time, and in my experience there was never a need to clear things first with the responsible workers. I have been companions to responsible workers (amongst other Dale Shultz) and we often crossed over to other fields and provinces and countries to visit. This only becomes and issue when power politics becomes the prime issue. In Margs case it was her loving concern for some of the excommunicated friends in Alberta (the parents of one of the friends in her field in Saskatcheway) that brought about the ire of the powers that be. She was undoubtadly aware of the serior workers feelings on the matter, so insubordination was a crime she choose to be guilty of. I haven't gotten the exact issues involved in Vietnamn, but from what I have been able to gather thus far, the issue was the same -- Canadian workers demand for the native workers to bow down and worship them -- and they choose to do otherwise. So they were expelled from the work in their own country. This older couple the subject of this thread, choose to support them -- and thus they have been rejected as well. These same Canadian workers are famous for their belief in their superior moral standing before God in Canada/US where Dale works now --- so the issue is not really surprizing. DS is the exact same worker that instigated Marg Magowans expulsion from the work. Check this out: www.anotherstep.net/summary/summary.6.htmIf I understand this, then, Marg was booted not for crossing field boundaries, but for fellowshiping with the excommunicated. The Canadian workers expecting worship comment is highly unfair.
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May 28, 2013 16:12:47 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on May 28, 2013 16:12:47 GMT -5
If I understand this, then, Marg was booted not for crossing field boundaries, but for fellowshiping with the excommunicated. The Canadian workers expecting worship comment is highly unfair. As it happened the friends she visited were in another province than the field she as assigned-- so she was condemned for both horrible crimes. She did have permission to travel through Alberta because she had permission to visit her dad in BC -- but her permission was only transit permission -- not for visiting people!! It is common knowledge that these Canadian workers regard themselves as the exclusive spokesmen of God ( because of their 2x2 'worker' status)-- and thus what they say represents God on the earth and cannot be questioned by friends or lesser people of lower rank before God. It is quite dishonest to deny this aspect of their teaching -- If this isn't the expectation of worship --- what is?? Willis taught this quite openly. Check the excommunication tapes at www.anotherstep.net/Realfiles/
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May 28, 2013 17:12:29 GMT -5
Post by fixit on May 28, 2013 17:12:29 GMT -5
From Dale Shultz's letter to those who raised concerns about the ministry's unrighteous behavior:
"If our attitude towards them becomes disrespectful, it is a reflection on our attitude towards God as well."
"Whether the decision is right or wrong, the right thing for all of us is to respect it because of those who have made the judgement."
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Post by sacerdotal on May 28, 2013 17:32:07 GMT -5
From Dale Shultz's letter to those who raised concerns about the ministry's unrighteous behavior: "If our attitude towards them becomes disrespectful, it is a reflection on our attitude towards God as well." "Whether the decision is right or wrong, the right thing for all of us is to respect it because of those who have made the judgement." Cult 101. Equating man with God.
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May 28, 2013 17:34:47 GMT -5
Post by sacerdotal on May 28, 2013 17:34:47 GMT -5
Greg, I agree that this is only (as it was for Marg Magowan) a dishonest excuse for getting rid of an uncomfortable worker. Workers cross borders all the time, and in my experience there was never a need to clear things first with the responsible workers. I have been companions to responsible workers (amongst other Dale Shultz) and we often crossed over to other fields and provinces and countries to visit. This only becomes and issue when power politics becomes the prime issue. In Margs case it was her loving concern for some of the excommunicated friends in Alberta (the parents of one of the friends in her field in Saskatcheway) that brought about the ire of the powers that be. She was undoubtadly aware of the serior workers feelings on the matter, so insubordination was a crime she choose to be guilty of. I haven't gotten the exact issues involved in Vietnamn, but from what I have been able to gather thus far, the issue was the same -- Canadian workers demand for the native workers to bow down and worship them -- and they choose to do otherwise. So they were expelled from the work in their own country. This older couple the subject of this thread, choose to support them -- and thus they have been rejected as well. These same Canadian workers are famous for their belief in their superior moral standing before God in Canada/US where Dale works now --- so the issue is not really surprizing. DS is the exact same worker that instigated Marg Magowans expulsion from the work. Check this out: www.anotherstep.net/summary/summary.6.htmI think that you are right. I had the distinct thought that an overseer wanted me to bow down and worship him- as in agree with him, praise him, not disagree with him, blah blah blah. I told another overseer that it was like the man wanted me to bow down and kiss his ring. I wonder if some of these workers understand just how much their arrogance is a turn off. Most people will never see it- UNTIL- they ever disagree or cross one of them- and then- boy do the claws come out.
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May 28, 2013 17:39:47 GMT -5
Post by sacerdotal on May 28, 2013 17:39:47 GMT -5
I guess some of the friends and workers who thought and said that the Canadian excommunications were a one time thing- I wonder how they like that piece of crow they are having to chew. Of course there has been another fiasco, except for now, in Vietnam. Why, because Dale Schultz never repented of his wrong- nor the others involved in Canada. Dale made it plain in a letter to the friends that he expected the workers to be respected whether they were wrong or right. That is a cultish statement. So, more families and workers have now been hurt by good ole country boy pride.
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May 28, 2013 18:30:03 GMT -5
Post by fixit on May 28, 2013 18:30:03 GMT -5
SD, here's a question that I often wonder about:
Is it even possible to follow the principles Jesus taught and have a worldwide fellowship organization?
The overseers are trying hard to keep the fellowship united, and to protect the organization it seems necessary to be dishonest and ruthless.
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Post by sacerdotal on May 28, 2013 18:50:03 GMT -5
SD, here's a question that I often wonder about: Is it even possible to follow the principles Jesus taught and have a worldwide fellowship organization? The overseers are trying hard to keep the fellowship united, and to protect the organization it seems necessary to be dishonest and ruthless. I don't know. I don't know if God ever intended for there to be ANY organization. The 7 churches in Revelation 2 and 3 seemed not to be united, and all had different conditions that God was wanting to work with them on. It is interesting that Jesus didn't mention for them to seek out an apostle and let them help fix the problem. Some of the overseers cannot see the irony of what they do. In trying to protect the fellowship, they are destroying the fellowship by driving honest people away. Do they honestly think that what they do in the dark will not be brought to the light of the internet? They can't seem to learn that lesson. And instead of looking at themselves, they have the audacity to blame the posters internet for their troubles. Just like dishonest politicians blame the news media for reporting about their corruption.
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May 28, 2013 19:31:44 GMT -5
Post by fixit on May 28, 2013 19:31:44 GMT -5
There's political fellowship and principles fellowship.
Overseers sacrifice principles for politics.
It's like the politics of a nation e.g. drones are used to protect the nation, but the "fair trial" principle is sacrificed.
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May 28, 2013 19:38:19 GMT -5
Post by sacerdotal on May 28, 2013 19:38:19 GMT -5
There's political fellowship and principles fellowship. Overseers sacrifice principles for politics. It's like the politics of a nation e.g. drones are used to protect the nation, but the "fair trial" principle is sacrificed. Exactly. Good analogy.
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