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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2012 16:58:38 GMT -5
Cherie -- regarding your question about what I know about the dismissal of Nickolas Papadakis from his position as Greek Overseer. And the breakaway group that went with him.
Keep in mind that we were firmly on the inside of 2x2ism at the time .. so are fairly influenced by the official versions presented to us by 'official leadership'
We had far more contact with the work in Greece when John MacCletus (sp??) was overseer there. John roots in 2x2ism were from Canada, and he and Willie Smiley were good friends. But even at that time we understood that Greece was an island of their own as far as 2x2ism was concerned -- The dictatorship they lived under for gave them the freedom from outside influence -- and blame it on the government. So under MacCletus they were ultra conservative and directly lived most of the ideas that originated with the original 2x2ers. When he passed away and there became more freedom of travel - the workers inheriting Johns legacy continued to resist the wayward influence of the rest of Europe (and North America) This didn't sit well with the high 2x2 councils who were working to bring Greece into their 'International' fellowship. So when some of the Greek workers became discontent with their own leadership -- the European 2x2 council decided to launch a coup d'etat -- and sent Peter Bill (Switzerland) in to 'run the show.
This gave us a little insight into developments because in the early stages of this 'take over' -- Peter Bill had sent a 15 year old Greek girl to live with us as 'au pair' because she needed to get away from her 'wayward' parents.
He kept quite close contact with us and Maria at that time -- but didn't like it when, although we loved this girl (and our youngest girl was named after her) we expressed our feeling that workers shouldn't try to be parents -- and that she should be at home with her family. Out complaints led to her being relocated to Holland to another proffessing family --
During that time a number of workers from the 'break away group' were sent up to Sweden for special meetings and spent a few days in our home at the time. That is when we first understood how infected the split amongst the friends and workers had become.
However our contact with Peter Bill was broken off abruptly when we questioned 2x2 reasoning for another worker Peter had sent to be with us --- put out of the work because of her knowledge of the sexual involvement of the senior French worker with the wives of one of the friends.
Since then we have been expelled from 2x2ism -- and Peter was killed -- so we have no idea of what is going on. We never had much information of the original group left after the break away -- except that they were 'evil'.
Sorry I can't give you more information -- but that is all that I have.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2012 17:21:44 GMT -5
Did Peter preach in Sri Lanka?
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Post by Rob Sargison on Oct 6, 2012 17:38:58 GMT -5
I always understood it to be about Nicholas' relationship with a sister worker (Katerina?) and desire to be married.
Nicholas was a charmer, a real charismatic guy. You couldn't help but like the man.
When we were there Anton held the fort. Did Nicholas actually take over from Anton?
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Post by ts on Oct 6, 2012 17:57:40 GMT -5
My wife was pen pals with this Maria starting when they were 12 or so. Interesting to see what happened to her. She broke off writing when she had to leave her family.
I met Peter Bill at convention in the States. How was Peter killed?
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Post by ts on Oct 6, 2012 18:00:36 GMT -5
I heard a rumour of a worker in Greece who decided to marry and leave the work and took all HIS money that had been given him by the friends for his services as a worker and bought a house.
Could be just a rumour, though. Any substance to it to your knowledge?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2012 18:03:55 GMT -5
Wasn't Peter from New Zealand?
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Post by lazarus66 on Oct 6, 2012 18:43:36 GMT -5
TS, the person that posts on here as Ghost has a lot of details about that, and from what he says it is very true. He seems to have first hand knowledge and it has led him to have a hatred for all 2x2,s. He was very explicit in a PM, and I have not seen him post lately. He would be the one to ask.......Dale
I wrote here that Ghost has a hatred, and that is not accurate. He prefers to not deal with many F&W's which I guess we all have that feeling. I apologize to Ghost for mis-stating him on here..... Dale
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Post by JO on Oct 6, 2012 19:36:01 GMT -5
I would not have given money to the workers for any reason. I will give money to the Red Cross or any other official humanitarian organisation. When the workers asked friends all over the world to give money to help Greek workers with the establishment of conventions in the early '80s, nobody could imagine that the then Greek overseer (Nikolas Papadakis, now deseased) would steal a big sum, quit the work, marry a fellow sister worker and buy a villa in a rich suburb of Athens. The workers at the time did nothing to recuperate the money, they just put everything under the carpet and continued «merryly ever after». I will never give money to people that are not accountable!
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Post by JO on Oct 6, 2012 19:38:27 GMT -5
I totally disagree with sofastarch. Over the years I was with the 2x2s I have known many cases of abusive use of money collected by the workers. Here are some examples - When the overseer in Greece decided to organise conventions there in the 80's a lot of money was sent to him from overseas (mostly the USA). Suddenly the «penniless and poor» overseer had enough money to construct a new convention building (many say he also paid for buying the piece of land on which the building was constructed). Of course the property was in the name of a friend! The same overseer had also enough money to support the establishment of another convention ground - there we heard he had to cover some debts of the non professing person who owned the property. Furthermore, some months later this same overseer, who had started acting like a dictator towards his fellow workers, left the 2x2 organisation and created his own flavour of christianity. He then bought a big property in one of the most lavish suburbs of Athens and constructed a villa apparently with the money he appropriated from the donations given to him for the establishment of the convention grounds. The new appointed overseer never disclosed how much money was stolen, nor asked them back!
- When certain workers in our region (in Europe) started using cars, instead of public transport (as was the custom until then), a friend suddenly bought a car «specifically for the workers to use», although his economic condition was not such as to allow him such largesse. We gathered that the money were given by the workers. When the car crached several times, the workers (who were responsible for the accidents) paid for the repairs although the cost of these repairs was quite high and any logical person would have prefered to buy a new car.
- When the overseer in our part of the world developed an adulterous affair with the wife of one of the friends, he started travelling several times a week from his «field» to the town of the lady. At the time we did not know of the affair but were startled by the frequency of travel who costed a fortune. In view of arranging practical questions about meetings etc. we would often try to contact the overseer whose field covered our region but we could not locate him at the place he was supposed to be and later discovered that he was out of town «unexpectedly for matters pertaining to the work».
So over the (more that 30) years I followed this cult I have seen enough cases which prove beyond doubt that the workers 1. Have a lot of money, 2. Manage this money in a most unacountable way, 3. Very often abuse the money without any control.
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Post by déjà vu on Oct 6, 2012 19:44:09 GMT -5
Wasn't Peter from New Zealand? Peter was from Switzerland was fluent in at least 5 languages as far as I remember he was run over by a small motor bike but did not die right away. We were in Greece during that upheaval and it divided many families sad to be in meetings to see the tears and how upset some were.
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Post by CherieKropp on Oct 6, 2012 19:57:35 GMT -5
Thanks Edgar - and for the info provided also by others. Paints quite a picture. Click to Read about the first Workers to go to Greece, subsequent overseers, etc.Nicolas Papadakis was the overseer of Greece in the early 1980s and he married Catherine Stavroulakis after they left the work. aka: (Nikolas Papadakis) and (Aikaterini Stavroulaki). Both are deceased I believe. I understand there was a "Breakaway Group" when Nicolas was dismissed from the fellowship. I wonder if it is still alive? Peter Bill died 9 Nov 2003 [age 71]
Edgar wrote: "when John MacCletus (sp??) was overseer"That would be: John Micheletos who was married to Annie. TTT Married Worker list has this about them: Micheletos, John & Anna (Annie) (nee McBride) Greece (Sometimes spelled "McLetoes.") This couple pioneered the work in Greece. John was born in Crete around 1880. Went to Canada at age 17. Met 2 sister workers there; Annie McBride was one of them. She was Irish. He later offered for the work and wanted to go to his country, Greece, and preach to his people. "No companion was available for him and John was extremely disappointed. He confessed all his thoughts and temptations to Annie McBride who had brought the Truth to him and who listened to Him as a spiritual mother. Annie who was almost 20 years his senior offered to marry him and join him as his companion to Greece...their decision was faced with great skeptism by the elders...They arrived in Greece in 1920." (Just after WWI ended.) (From E. V. Athens, January 1986 "Introduction") John died in Athens in 1966; Annie died in Hania, Crete in 1944
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Post by CherieKropp on Oct 6, 2012 21:12:07 GMT -5
I found this old post made in 2006 in my files. I dont know which board it was posted on - maybe PMB?
Greek overseer misused private funds;1980s « Thread Started on Oct 1, 2006, 12:18pm » ________________________________________ By greek (guest) Re: Hand in the cookie jar « Reply #42 on Today at 8:42am »
The case of a Greek worker was mentioned. Nicolas Papadakis, the overseer in the early '80s, asked money from abroad to set up the convention grounds in Athens and Crete. He exerted terrible pressure to friends and workers acting like a dictator and (apparently) keeping money in private accounts.
Finally in 1983, he decided to eliminate internal opposition and declared half of the Greek workers (7 out of a total of 14) not fit for the work. Some of them wrote to workers in England and Switcherland and the overseers from several European countries came over to Greece to try and persuade Nicolas and Catherine Stavroulakis (who supported him along with some other workers) to go work in Australia or elsewhere. No mention of the sums taken and mismanaged, nor for the private bank accounts.
The cover up should have been complete but Nicolas was not willing to back-up an inch. During the convention of 1984 he asked the friends supporting him to stand up. More or less half of the friends supported him initially, but this number soon swelled. He left to create his own brand of the Truth, bought an expensive house in the northern (most expensive) suburbs of Athens, married secretly with Catherine Stavroulakis, published a book about the real truth, and ... died some months ago. Stavroulakis, still tries to attract people from the mainstream (2x2) truth using lies and inventing stories.
However, no worker has ever mentioned the exact sum Nicolas took from the cookie jar, and nobody ever asked for the money back - in classic mafia-like cover-up way.
Cherie would like to have a copy of the above mentioned book Nicolas wrote.
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Post by ts on Oct 6, 2012 23:41:50 GMT -5
When the overseer in our part of the world developed an adulterous affair with the wife of one of the friends, he started travelling several times a week from his «field» to the town of the lady. At the time we did not know of the affair but were startled by the frequency of travel who costed a fortune. In view of arranging practical questions about meetings etc. we would often try to contact the overseer whose field covered our region but we could not locate him at the place he was supposed to be and later discovered that he was out of town «unexpectedly for matters pertaining to the work».
Rational says that this particular type of activity is not possible in the work because someone knows where the overseer is at all times and any questionable activity would certainly be questioned.
Overseers can even fly across country to have sex if they want to. If anyone asks, they are on "official worker business" and everyone gives them the respect to not ask further.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2012 3:23:21 GMT -5
Infected issues like the Greek break-away usually become complicated -- I could very well guess that no-one held a very high standard of honesty. I know that the mainline 2x2 organization is ONLY interested in painting a good picture for themselves -- truth is a minor consideration. 2x2ism has also become extremely skillfull at concealing facts that don't support their cause.
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Post by rational on Oct 7, 2012 6:51:18 GMT -5
When the overseer in our part of the world developed an adulterous affair with the wife of one of the friends, he started travelling several times a week from his «field» to the town of the lady. At the time we did not know of the affair but were startled by the frequency of travel who costed a fortune. In view of arranging practical questions about meetings etc. we would often try to contact the overseer whose field covered our region but we could not locate him at the place he was supposed to be and later discovered that he was out of town «unexpectedly for matters pertaining to the work».Rational says that this particular type of activity is not possible in the work because someone knows where the overseer is at all times and any questionable activity would certainly be questioned. Overseers can even fly across country to have sex if they want to. If anyone asks, they are on "official worker business" and everyone gives them the respect to not ask further. This is not the situation I had questioned but after reading what was posted I can see hos the statement you made could have had its roots in this story. I can see in this case there may indeed have been several visits in a week but that does not equate flying off for for days for sexual reasons. If this worker was traveling several times a week it is doubtful he/she was flying across the country but rather driving. That would certainly raise fewer questions than someone flying 3,000 miles. It would seem that there is some basis in truth for the claims made by TS. I mistakenly believed TS was talking about this situation happening in the US and based my questions on the on the interaction of the friends and workers in the US. That was an error and I apologize.
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Post by ts on Oct 7, 2012 15:25:11 GMT -5
So, you are saying the same thing cannot happen in the USA? What makes the USA different from Europe? What difference does expense and distance of travel make if the time and money are available with the accepted and unquestioned excuse of "Official worker business"?
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Post by ghost on Oct 14, 2012 3:28:31 GMT -5
Cherie would like to have a copy of the above mentioned book Nicolas wrote. I have not yet located a copy of the book. However, your stance when ilylo banned me from the TLC group was quite hypocritical (you co-created the group, you invited me and many other people to join, then, when I expressed personal opinions that were not of your liking pretended ilylo was the sole decision-maker) and I would say were bordering to being fundamentalist. So, even if I put my hand upon the book, I would not be inclined to send it to you. Infected issues like the Greek break-away usually become complicated -- I could very well guess that no-one held a very high standard of honesty. I know that the mainline 2x2 organization is ONLY interested in painting a good picture for themselves -- truth is a minor consideration. 2x2ism has also become extremely skillfull at concealing facts that don't support their cause. On the basis of my experience, I fully agree with Edgar. So, you are saying the same thing cannot happen in the USA? What makes the USA different from Europe? What difference does expense and distance of travel make if the time and money are available with the accepted and unquestioned excuse of "Official worker business"? Of course it can happen everywhere ... And I am sure it has happened or may be happening right now somewhere. Workers who are secretive about their whereabouts even to their younger companions, who are charming and very strong preachers, who bring tears to the eyes of the congregation, who preach passionately against adultery, are the most likely suspects ...
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Post by lazarus66 on Oct 14, 2012 10:10:18 GMT -5
Fortunately the overseer in Iowa can get to his "female interest" in just a couple hours. Nope doesn't happen in the US.
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Post by ghost on Oct 16, 2012 1:20:33 GMT -5
TS, the person that posts on here as Ghost has a lot of details about that, and from what he says it is very true. He seems to have first hand knowledge and it has led him to have a hatred for all 2x2,s. He was very explicit in a PM, and I have not seen him post lately. He would be the one to ask.......Dale I do not remember sending any pm expressing HATRED ... and I do not remember corresponding with lazarus66 (unless you were using another alias). Can you please be more specific. I repeat, I never expressed HATRED for the 2x2s. I have expressed sorrow for being tricked for years to believe they had the holy ghost, for having destroyed lives, for being hypocrites and liars and thieves. But HATRED? Where did this come from lazarus66??
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Post by ts on Oct 17, 2012 12:29:28 GMT -5
Workers are just as capable of hiding their affairs as any adulterous husband or wife. These affairs can go on for years in a marriage without the other knowing. And you could wonder how it could happen in a marriage. A man flying across country on "business" and be gone for days.
If the money is available, there is no limit to how often and how far an overseer could travel for sex. And if two overseers are in the same business of having affairs, they could arrange "counselling" sessions for one another with vulnerable women.
There is a myth that the dishonesty and adultery of workers is just individual workers hiding their deeds from everyone else. No one thinks about them actually helping one another do their dirty work. Why wouldn't they?
According to their own preaching about the way falseness works in OTHER churches, that is the way it happens because of the SPIRIT of deception that gets in. That is what has happened in the work. The leadership has a false and deceptive spirit that has crept in. The leaders then promote others like themselves. Then they help each other do what their spirit leads them to do. They serve their father, the devil.
That is the judgment that we passed on all other churches. Now that judgment is coming back to the workers.
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Post by ghost on Oct 19, 2012 3:11:01 GMT -5
I asked lazarus666 to substantiate his alegations about my expressing hatred towards the 2x2s. I also pm-ed him. Got no answer ... I consider this a serious accusation and demand, either an explanation or an apology.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2012 13:55:50 GMT -5
Since then we have been expelled from 2x2ism -- and Peter was killed -- so we have no idea of what is going on. We never had much information of the original group left after the break away -- except that they were 'evil'. Definitely no longer looked on as 'evil' !!! i don't know if it's mentioned elsewhere on the Board, but the break away Greek group (ie Nikolas's group) are now accepted back in the 2x2 fellowship - the 'right hand of fellowship' was accomplished in the last couple of years.
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Post by lazarus66 on Oct 19, 2012 15:25:54 GMT -5
I wrote here that Ghost has a hatred, and that is not accurate. He prefers to not deal with many F&W's which I guess we all have that feeling. I apologize to Ghost for mis-stating him on here..... Dale
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Post by ghost on Oct 20, 2012 4:02:19 GMT -5
I wrote here that Ghost has a hatred, and that is not accurate. He prefers to not deal with many F&W's which I guess we all have that feeling. I apologize to Ghost for mis-stating him on here..... Dale Apology accepted! Just to clarify: I do not refuse to deal with Friends. I am in more or less close contact with many of them, on very good terms, but on the condition that we do not discuss religious matters. I do refuse to have relations with Workers as I consider that they are not honest by supporting - through covering up - their colleagues who steal, maintain adulterous relations or whatever else is against the principles they so ferociously preach and try to enforce upon others. And yes, the last remains of the Nicolaites have re-integrated the non-Nicolaites in Greece. But who cares ...
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