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Post by churchmouse on Aug 1, 2012 15:14:04 GMT -5
If I do something sinful, is there a point when it's no longer sin? Like, does God forget after a certain period of time, or does he overlook it if I do everything else right?
1 John 1:9 says, "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." Does that mean if we acknowledge that what we're doing is sinful, God forgives us and no longer recognizes it as sin because we're covered by Jesus' blood and his grace?
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Post by sharonw on Aug 1, 2012 21:51:09 GMT -5
If I do something sinful, is there a point when it's no longer sin? Like, does God forget after a certain period of time, or does he overlook it if I do everything else right? 1 John 1:9 says, "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." Does that mean if we acknowledge that what we're doing is sinful, God forgives us and no longer recognizes it as sin because we're covered by Jesus' blood and his grace? It is my understanding that God forgives sin when that Sin is not purposefully committed....but I don't know what God thinks about those purposefully committed, but I would think with sincere repentance that the love mercy and grace are handed out again and again....for we do sin every day.
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Post by churchmouse on Aug 5, 2012 15:30:26 GMT -5
Thank you for your answer, sharonw. So repentance doesn't always mean we must stop doing what's sinful? We can continue in that sin and still take part in meeting and serve God because we are forgiven anew each day, especially if we don't realize we're sinning at first? Some people think we must change what we're doing or how we're living, but it seems it would be harder to show an outward repentance for some sins because they'd require a major life-changing transformation, while others just require a conscious effort to change.
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shushy
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Post by shushy on Sept 7, 2012 17:30:23 GMT -5
If I do something sinful, is there a point when it's no longer sin? Like, does God forget after a certain period of time, or does he overlook it if I do everything else right? When we repent he forgives us, it goes into the sea of forgetfulness. We become justified just as if we had never sinned. Everything we do is recorded. When the books are opened repented sin is no there it is blotted out. 1 John 1:9 says, "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." Does that mean if we acknowledge that what we're doing is sinful, God forgives us and no longer recognizes it as sin because we're covered by Jesus' blood and his grace? I only repent when I am convicted by the holy Spirit. (not mans efforts to convict me) Then I acknowledge the sin, repent and renounce it, speak it off my life and ask for forgiveness. Knowing with confidence I can trust him to keep his word. He always recognises sin because it has no part of him. We sin everyday, we are human.
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Post by Sylvestra on Sept 7, 2012 22:24:19 GMT -5
Thank you for your answer, sharonw. So repentance doesn't always mean we must stop doing what's sinful? We can continue in that sin and still take part in meeting and serve God because we are forgiven anew each day, especially if we don't realize we're sinning at first? Some people think we must change what we're doing or how we're living, but it seems it would be harder to show an outward repentance for some sins because they'd require a major life-changing transformation, while others just require a conscious effort to change. I understand the idea of "repentence" to be to change direction, and not keep repeating the same sin. I also understand that some sin is by habit that has to be broken, or addiction that has to be battled....there will be failure, and desire to get up and try, try again!
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Post by rational on Sept 9, 2012 17:48:13 GMT -5
I also understand that some sin is by habit that has to be broken, or addiction that has to be battled....there will be failure, and desire to get up and try, try again! Is addiction a sin? How would it be possible to be a sin when the mechanism that causes addiction is a result of the operation of the human body which most theists believe was created by god. If you drive a car that gets into an accident when you apply the brakes because the manufacturer had crafted the brake-pads from ice cream sandwiches where does the fault lay?
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Post by Johnny DeRaad on Sept 16, 2012 7:14:24 GMT -5
Is addiction a sin? ..the human body which most theists believe was created by god. ..where does the fault lay? the human body was created wonderful and marvelous. . . ..then that one guy showed up and screwed everything up. .. literally ..all the fault of the entire world's sin lays at his feet alone.
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Post by dmmichgood on Sept 16, 2012 23:33:41 GMT -5
Thank you for your answer, sharonw. So repentance doesn't always mean we must stop doing what's sinful? We can continue in that sin and still take part in meeting and serve God because we are forgiven anew each day, especially if we don't realize we're sinning at first? Some people think we must change what we're doing or how we're living, but it seems it would be harder to show an outward repentance for some sins because they'd require a major life-changing transformation, while others just require a conscious effort to change. I understand the idea of "repentence" to be to change direction, and not keep repeating the same sin. I also understand that some sin is by habit that has to be broken, or addiction that has to be battled....there will be failure, and desire to get up and try, try again! Addiction (of any kind) is now known to be a neurological problem not one of "morality".
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Post by dmmichgood on Sept 16, 2012 23:37:35 GMT -5
Is addiction a sin? ..the human body which most theists believe was created by god. ..where does the fault lay? the human body was created wonderful and marvelous. . . ..then that one guy showed up and screwed everything up. .. literally ..all the fault of the entire world's sin lays at his feet alone. Poor Man, Adam (& Eve)
God's scape goat for how, he (god) screwed up!
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Post by Annan on Sept 17, 2012 7:54:33 GMT -5
Sin is the mother of wisdom. The expulsion of Adam & Eve from the Garden of Eden was their expulsion from bondage, the bondage of a sweet but meaningless dream, the bondage of non-thought. . . . Freedom is the very breath of existence. Without the "sin" of freedom, there would be no philosophers, no art, no science, no cities, no marketplaces, no gaiety , no joyfulness, no naughtiness, no explorations, no music, no excitements, no sudden songs in the morning, no laughter at midnight, no spicy dishes, no wine, and, of course, no wars and no books. Perhaps sin in its deepest meanings is truth." Bright Flows the River, Taylor Caldwell
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Post by snow on Sept 17, 2012 10:11:21 GMT -5
Sin is the mother of wisdom. The expulsion of Adam & Eve from the Garden of Eden was their expulsion from bondage, the bondage of a sweet but meaningless dream, the bondage of non-thought. . . . Freedom is the very breath of existence. Without the "sin" of freedom, there would be no philosophers, no art, no science, no cities, no marketplaces, no gaiety , no joyfulness, no naughtiness, no explorations, no music, no excitements, no sudden songs in the morning, no laughter at midnight, no spicy dishes, no wine, and, of course, no wars and no books. Perhaps sin in its deepest meanings is truth." Bright Flows the River, Taylor Caldwell there would be no experience of the physical realm period. A concept would always be just that, incomplete without the experience!
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Post by Johnny DeRaad on Sept 19, 2012 18:10:15 GMT -5
the human body was created wonderful and marvelous. . . ..then that one guy showed up and screwed everything up. .. literally ..all the fault of the entire world's sin lays at his feet alone. Poor Man, Adam (& Eve)
God's scape goat for how, he (god) screwed up!Um..no ..Adam wasn't who I was referring to.. .. ..the guy in the red suit with the pointy horns and the pitchfork is the culprit I'm referring to.. ..it all goes back to him .. .and Adam wasn't created with a neurological problem
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Post by snow on Sept 20, 2012 13:47:36 GMT -5
Poor Man, Adam (& Eve)
God's scape goat for how, he (god) screwed up! Um..no ..Adam wasn't who I was referring to.. .. ..the guy in the red suit with the pointy horns and the pitchfork is the culprit I'm referring to.. ..it all goes back to him .. .and Adam wasn't created with a neurological problem Well I think God and the guy in the red suit had an alliance so there would'nt be a population problem in heaven. don't ya think...
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shushy
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Post by shushy on Sept 20, 2012 22:12:53 GMT -5
Sin is no longer sin when it is paid for.
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Post by guitar on Sept 28, 2012 15:16:31 GMT -5
Prostitution is paid for.
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Post by churchmouse on Oct 10, 2012 15:27:37 GMT -5
Thank you for your answer, sharonw. So repentance doesn't always mean we must stop doing what's sinful? We can continue in that sin and still take part in meeting and serve God because we are forgiven anew each day, especially if we don't realize we're sinning at first? Some people think we must change what we're doing or how we're living, but it seems it would be harder to show an outward repentance for some sins because they'd require a major life-changing transformation, while others just require a conscious effort to change. I understand the idea of "repentence" to be to change direction, and not keep repeating the same sin. I also understand that some sin is by habit that has to be broken, or addiction that has to be battled....there will be failure, and desire to get up and try, try again! Please excuse my questions. I'm not refuting what you say, I'm just a bit confused and your answer is a good jumping off point because I think you understand what I'm asking. Does repentance as you define it apply only to outsiders? I understand what you mean about some things taking time to correct. But there are workers who defend some of the friends' lifestyles and speak highly of their faith because they go to most of the meetings, welcome the workers in their homes, give the workers money and love the friends. Somewhere in the scriptures it says love covers a multitude of sins. So, does it matter what people do in their personal lives as long as they show love for the workers and friends? Does that love carry more weight than our sins so they are eventually blotted out?
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Post by holdmyhand on Oct 10, 2012 18:32:12 GMT -5
I understand the idea of "repentence" to be to change direction, and not keep repeating the same sin. I also understand that some sin is by habit that has to be broken, or addiction that has to be battled....there will be failure, and desire to get up and try, try again! Please excuse my questions. I'm not refuting what you say, I'm just a bit confused and your answer is a good jumping off point because I think you understand what I'm asking. Does repentance as you define it apply only to outsiders? I understand what you mean about some things taking time to correct. But there are workers who defend some of the friends' lifestyles and speak highly of their faith because they go to most of the meetings, welcome the workers in their homes, give the workers money and love the friends. Somewhere in the scriptures it says love covers a multitude of sins. So, does it matter what people do in their personal lives as long as they show love for the workers and friends? Does that love carry more weight than our sins so they are eventually blotted out? Here is my thoughts on sin Sin is sin regardless of who commits it, and remains a sin until there is repentance. We need to constantly repent because we are human and prone to sin, this includes thoughts as well as actions, even after repentance it is possible to fall into same sin and be forgiven again but to willingly continue to sin is not true repentance True repentance is honestly wanting to change, it is a personal thing between you and God and if you are sincere he will give you power, willpower alone is not enough. It is an inward work and if there is only an outward appearance of repentance, it is meaningless. The workers make mistakes, if you worry about the workers opinions of people you will become confused, they are human and can be influenced and deceived Focus on God’s word and seek his spirits guidance.
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Post by emy on Oct 10, 2012 21:03:38 GMT -5
I understand the idea of "repentence" to be to change direction, and not keep repeating the same sin. I also understand that some sin is by habit that has to be broken, or addiction that has to be battled....there will be failure, and desire to get up and try, try again! Please excuse my questions. I'm not refuting what you say, I'm just a bit confused and your answer is a good jumping off point because I think you understand what I'm asking. Does repentance as you define it apply only to outsiders? I understand what you mean about some things taking time to correct. But there are workers who defend some of the friends' lifestyles and speak highly of their faith because they go to most of the meetings, welcome the workers in their homes, give the workers money and love the friends. Somewhere in the scriptures it says love covers a multitude of sins. So, does it matter what people do in their personal lives as long as they show love for the workers and friends? Does that love carry more weight than our sins so they are eventually blotted out? I like what holdmyhand said. About the part above in bold, my understanding is that love for someone else covers a multitude of THEIR sins.
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Post by sharonw on Dec 28, 2012 12:18:59 GMT -5
Thank you for your answer, sharonw. So repentance doesn't always mean we must stop doing what's sinful? We can continue in that sin and still take part in meeting and serve God because we are forgiven anew each day, especially if we don't realize we're sinning at first? Some people think we must change what we're doing or how we're living, but it seems it would be harder to show an outward repentance for some sins because they'd require a major life-changing transformation, while others just require a conscious effort to change. Doesn't repentance come with sincerity? Otherwise it isn't repentance but a mockery of going through the loops? What I'm meaning is if we do find ourselves doing a sin purposefully and feel condemned in ourself then we need to sincerely repent and do our best not to purposefully do sin again. There are sins we do without knowing them and I think the Psalmist asked that God would forgive him his "secret sins"...
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Post by sharonw on Dec 28, 2012 12:30:01 GMT -5
Please excuse my questions. I'm not refuting what you say, I'm just a bit confused and your answer is a good jumping off point because I think you understand what I'm asking. Does repentance as you define it apply only to outsiders? I understand what you mean about some things taking time to correct. But there are workers who defend some of the friends' lifestyles and speak highly of their faith because they go to most of the meetings, welcome the workers in their homes, give the workers money and love the friends. Somewhere in the scriptures it says love covers a multitude of sins. So, does it matter what people do in their personal lives as long as they show love for the workers and friends? Does that love carry more weight than our sins so they are eventually blotted out? Here is my thoughts on sin Sin is sin regardless of who commits it, and remains a sin until there is repentance. We need to constantly repent because we are human and prone to sin, this includes thoughts as well as actions, even after repentance it is possible to fall into same sin and be forgiven again but to willingly continue to sin is not true repentance True repentance is honestly wanting to change, it is a personal thing between you and God and if you are sincere he will give you power, willpower alone is not enough. It is an inward work and if there is only an outward appearance of repentance, it is meaningless. The workers make mistakes, if you worry about the workers opinions of people you will become confused, they are human and can be influenced and deceived Focus on God’s word and seek his spirits guidance. You reminded me of what Paul had to say about things similiar. Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that [it is] good. Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not. Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. Rom 8:1 ¶ [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded [is] death; but to be spiritually minded [is] life and peace. Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. etc When we are conscious of our sinful nature and we feel sorrow for that then to repent and to be spiritually minded then we gain peace where our dirty conscience dwelt before.
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Post by sharonw on Dec 28, 2012 12:34:09 GMT -5
I understand the idea of "repentence" to be to change direction, and not keep repeating the same sin. I also understand that some sin is by habit that has to be broken, or addiction that has to be battled....there will be failure, and desire to get up and try, try again! Please excuse my questions. I'm not refuting what you say, I'm just a bit confused and your answer is a good jumping off point because I think you understand what I'm asking. Does repentance as you define it apply only to outsiders? I understand what you mean about some things taking time to correct. But there are workers who defend some of the friends' lifestyles and speak highly of their faith because they go to most of the meetings, welcome the workers in their homes, give the workers money and love the friends. Somewhere in the scriptures it says love covers a multitude of sins. So, does it matter what people do in their personal lives as long as they show love for the workers and friends? Does that love carry more weight than our sins so they are eventually blotted out? As love is the very thing that cures many ails, it is God's love that blots things out not humans....that said, IF there appears to be some that live delectibly when workers are not around, then are so very full of love and attentiveness when workers are around...then what kind of love is that in reality? It is loving one's self more then anyone around and the commandment is to love others AS OURSELVES, not less then ourselves....so the "love" seen is often a "veneer" not what reigns within and yes, workers can be fooled....as well as the friends can be or anyone else for that matter.
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Post by sharonw on Dec 28, 2012 12:35:34 GMT -5
Please excuse my questions. I'm not refuting what you say, I'm just a bit confused and your answer is a good jumping off point because I think you understand what I'm asking. Does repentance as you define it apply only to outsiders? I understand what you mean about some things taking time to correct. But there are workers who defend some of the friends' lifestyles and speak highly of their faith because they go to most of the meetings, welcome the workers in their homes, give the workers money and love the friends. Somewhere in the scriptures it says love covers a multitude of sins. So, does it matter what people do in their personal lives as long as they show love for the workers and friends? Does that love carry more weight than our sins so they are eventually blotted out? I like what holdmyhand said. About the part above in bold, my understanding is that love for someone else covers a multitude of THEIR sins. Otherwords because we love people even in their sins?
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Post by CherieKropp on Dec 28, 2012 12:47:14 GMT -5
Here's the context for verse 8--re: charity covering sins
1 Peter 4:1-10: (King James Version)
1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.
3 For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:
4 Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you:
5 Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.
6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
7 But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.
8 And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.
9 Use hospitality one to another without grudging.
10 As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.
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Post by Sylvestra on Dec 28, 2012 13:24:38 GMT -5
Thank you for your answer, sharonw. So repentance doesn't always mean we must stop doing what's sinful? We can continue in that sin and still take part in meeting and serve God because we are forgiven anew each day, especially if we don't realize we're sinning at first? Some people think we must change what we're doing or how we're living, but it seems it would be harder to show an outward repentance for some sins because they'd require a major life-changing transformation, while others just require a conscious effort to change. For what it's worth, I understand that "repentance" is a matter of "changing direction" or "changing the mind". If you are doing something you know is wrong, but you choose to continue doing it there is no repentance, regardless if you say "I've sinned and I'm sorry"...and full well knowing you're going to continue committing the sin... then that is NOT repentance. I would consider such things (for example) as committing adultery or a man and woman living together in an unmarried state in this category. If you are in a situation that is a "major life changing transformation", your direction can have changed and you are progressing toward not committing this sin any longer, repentance is evident by the direction you are progressing toward. Now, having said that, make sure what you are doing is REALLY a sin and not some misconstrued "doctrine of men". (Divorce and remarriage come immediately to mind!!!) There are things that the workers (and pastors of some other churches as well), see as sin, that God does not see a sin. P.S. - added after reading one of your later posts about the friends doing as they please and the workers accepting that because of people's relationship with the workers.... The workers don't decide for God what sin is. I believe you are seeing boldly the "sin of the workers" in "having respect of men". and them respecting things that God does not!!! I took your original post to mean that you were confused about something you were doing in your own life. I'm sorry to have misunderstood you, but I'll leave my answer here, because it might help someone else
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Post by lazarus66 on Dec 28, 2012 14:36:28 GMT -5
My understanding at this time is that if you repent to God, who knows your heart anyway, and turn from the sin, it is forgiven forever. If you return to it, you must repent again and turn away from it again.
When I was in the drug world, I did many things that were not very nice. When I left that world I left it all behind and did not participate in it anymore.
I did bad things to people that were in the "drug game" so when I left, I felt like I couldn't remember all of the things I had done, but I didn't do bad things to people not involved in drugs.
I feel like all of the things that took place in that life are forgiven and past. I left those ways and have not returned to them. I don't feel like I have anything to answer for in the respect of those things I did, back then.
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Post by lazarus66 on Dec 28, 2012 14:46:34 GMT -5
Churchmouse To quote you" Does repentance as you define it apply only to outsiders? I understand what you mean about some things taking time to correct. But there are workers who defend some of the friends' lifestyles and speak highly of their faith because they go to most of the meetings, welcome the workers in their homes, give the workers money and love the friends.
Somewhere in the scriptures it says love covers a multitude of sins. So, does it matter what people do in their personal lives as long as they show love for the workers and friends? Does that love carry more weight than our sins so they are eventually blotted out?"
Repentance is for everyone. If you are sinning, just because you go to meetings, you can not continue to sin and expect forgiveness. The workers will not come down on someone that is sinning, if they are contributing enough to them and their lifestyle. When they see sin and cover it over, they are equally guilty. Sin is sin, and if you think that going to meetings removes your sin, you are really disillusioned. God, not the workers, forgives sin, and it is clear in the bible that you can not sin and continue in sin, and be forgiven.
Think of the woman brought before Jesus in Adultery. Jesus said "go and sin no more".
Edy is spot on with her post........
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Post by Gene on Dec 28, 2012 18:20:42 GMT -5
If the aim of repentance and the forgiveness of sins is to be freed from the bondage of sin, then it can also be accomplished by coming to the enlightened state of understanding that what one once considered sin is not, in fact, sin.
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Post by Sylvestra on Dec 28, 2012 21:12:26 GMT -5
If the aim of repentance and the forgiveness of sins is to be freed from the bondage of sin, then it can also be accomplished by coming to the enlightened state of understanding that what one once considered sin is not, in fact, sin. There can be a huge margin of error on that one, Gene! I know that remarriage after divorce is not adultery (sin) which we were taught. I also know that a woman wearing slacks or jeans in not a sin, whereas we were told it was. What other ones are you considering?
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