Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2012 16:17:58 GMT -5
What are some ways that the Servants punish their saints?
Methods of excommunication would include a verbal talk, letter, E Mail, phone call (Jim Knipe and Gwen Fipke), answering machine, worker tells someone else to tell you to stop taking part.
Any other punishment other than taking part or the bread and wine? They don't whip people. Shunning, gossiping might be considered punishment. A wayward worker might be paired with an old senile companion, for example.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2012 5:36:59 GMT -5
A letter stated meeting will no longer be in your home because you have a problem with those in your CHURCH. I though we went to MEETING!!! No phone call, no explanation of the problem.
|
|
|
Post by calleduntoliberty on Jun 30, 2012 15:36:29 GMT -5
Did you receive such a letter, marie?
"with those in your CHURCH. I though we went to MEETING!!!" - what are you saying here? Churches have meetings, right? My church does. Doesn't yours?
|
|
|
Post by sharonw on Jun 30, 2012 16:35:40 GMT -5
Did you receive such a letter, marie? "with those in your CHURCH. I though we went to MEETING!!!" - what are you saying here? Churches have meetings, right? My church does. Doesn't yours? I interpreted what Marie's message speaks about "church" as in having trouble with the whole membership or the whole rules, etc. not just a single meeting.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2012 13:01:05 GMT -5
Do you really care if I received this letter? I really don't think you do.
|
|
|
Post by JO on Jul 1, 2012 22:32:48 GMT -5
Do you really care if I received this letter? I really don't think you do. Hey Marie, I care, but your post is a bit too cryptic for me. Could you expand on what you wrote so we can understand it better? Sending a letter to remove a meeting doesn't make much sense to me. Nor does leaving a message on an answerphone . The people involved should be able to sit down together and talk about it sensibly.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2012 6:38:53 GMT -5
Yes, My husband and I received this letter from the workers in our field. It was after a disagreement with our elder over our son wrecking his car that was not registered or insured at their house. They did not notify us of the accident. He did it in their housing development. When I spoke to the elder, his son and my son after meeting that night I was told by their 17 year old son that everyone drives their cars without registration and insurances. That is true they have let their children drive with out licenses for years. We did not. When I said I did not care if everyone else did it it was wrong, he stood up walked to the door and said F### you. I turned to his father (our elder) and said I expect and apology and he said I think I will leave too, you just yelled at my son. When I called the worker the next day to say I needed to talk to them they told me they could see us in 3-4 weeks. I was so upset that I told them they could find some place else for the workers to stay on special meeting rounds in 2 weeks. On Tuesday morning the next week we received this letter. To this day I have never received and apology from the elder or his son. My husband has never gone to meeting since that day. I stopped going for 15 months. During that time the workers have blamed us for everything that was ever wrong. They have never acknowledge what the elders son said to me. This exchange was witnessed by a neighbor and her 14 year old son who was in the car that day, with my son. She was shocked at the elder's son and the elder.
This was not the first and only incident that happened with this elder. This was the tipping point. When we tried to talk to the workers about out concerns 5 years prior when we first went to this meeting we were told "you have enough sin of your own".
|
|
|
Post by quizzer on Jul 2, 2012 10:48:52 GMT -5
Did you receive such a letter, marie? "with those in your CHURCH. I though we went to MEETING!!!" - what are you saying here? Churches have meetings, right? My church does. Doesn't yours? Professing people go to CHURCH, calleduntoliberty? That's a nice phrase, but I don't hear it in the meetings.
|
|
|
Post by quizzer on Jul 2, 2012 10:53:47 GMT -5
This was not the first and only incident that happened with this elder. This was the tipping point. When we tried to talk to the workers about out concerns 5 years prior when we first went to this meeting we were told "you have enough sin of your own". Sadly, you were up against a brick wall at this point, marie. Elders are elders because they support the workers. Workers can't find fault with elders because that would indicate that the workers (or overseer) made a bad decision in appointing an elder. The problem with propping up one another is that when a real problem happens, there's plenty of obstacles to investigating and fixing problems. You can't say anything is wrong, because that indicates that other wrong decisions may have been made. Therefore, the person who complains MUST be the problem. I'm sorry that you were hit with this situation. Until 2x2s are ready to self-examine and fix problems, stuff like this is going to happen.
|
|
|
Post by Greg on Jul 2, 2012 10:54:04 GMT -5
Did you receive such a letter, marie? "with those in your CHURCH. I though we went to MEETING!!!" - what are you saying here? Churches have meetings, right? My church does. Doesn't yours? Professing people go to CHURCH, calleduntoliberty? That's a nice phrase, but I don't hear it in the meetings. I heard that twice in one conversation at a convention/annual meeting. "Time for church." "Let's go to church." No sarcasm by those that said those words. Just the way they saw (at least the annual meeting) meeting - as "church".
|
|
|
Post by inpeaceabiding on Jul 2, 2012 15:42:06 GMT -5
Did you receive such a letter, marie? "with those in your CHURCH. I though we went to MEETING!!!" - what are you saying here? Churches have meetings, right? My church does. Doesn't yours? Professing people go to CHURCH, calleduntoliberty? That's a nice phrase, but I don't hear it in the meetings. Have you never heard the friends refer to conventions as "church conventions"? That is very common. And I have heard individual meetings referred to as "churches".
|
|
|
Post by quizzer on Jul 2, 2012 17:23:26 GMT -5
Wow. Things must be changing in some parts of the world. I still hear the phrase "false churches." Haven't heard "church" used in any positive way concerning meetings or conventions.
|
|
|
Post by calleduntoliberty on Jul 2, 2012 19:28:27 GMT -5
Did you receive such a letter, marie? "with those in your CHURCH. I though we went to MEETING!!!" - what are you saying here? Churches have meetings, right? My church does. Doesn't yours? I interpreted what Marie's message speaks about "church" as in having trouble with the whole membership or the whole rules, etc. not just a single meeting. But "those in your church" refers to those who meet together.
|
|
|
Post by calleduntoliberty on Jul 2, 2012 19:28:56 GMT -5
Do you really care if I received this letter? I really don't think you do. Yes, of course I do. Why would you think I wouldn't?
|
|
|
Post by calleduntoliberty on Jul 2, 2012 19:34:21 GMT -5
Did you receive such a letter, marie? "with those in your CHURCH. I though we went to MEETING!!!" - what are you saying here? Churches have meetings, right? My church does. Doesn't yours? Professing people go to CHURCH, calleduntoliberty? Yes, obviously. You know that it is true. Wow. Things must be changing in some parts of the world. I still hear the phrase "false churches." Haven't heard "church" used in any positive way concerning meetings or conventions. Check your KJV Bible. That word 'church' is there.
|
|
|
Post by calleduntoliberty on Jul 2, 2012 19:38:27 GMT -5
Yes, My husband and I received this letter from the workers in our field. It was after a disagreement with our elder over our son wrecking his car that was not registered or insured at their house. They did not notify us of the accident. He did it in their housing development. When I spoke to the elder, his son and my son after meeting that night I was told by their 17 year old son that everyone drives their cars without registration and insurances. That is true they have let their children drive with out licenses for years. We did not. When I said I did not care if everyone else did it it was wrong, he stood up walked to the door and said F### you. I turned to his father (our elder) and said I expect and apology and he said I think I will leave too, you just yelled at my son. When I called the worker the next day to say I needed to talk to them they told me they could see us in 3-4 weeks. I was so upset that I told them they could find some place else for the workers to stay on special meeting rounds in 2 weeks. On Tuesday morning the next week we received this letter. To this day I have never received and apology from the elder or his son. My husband has never gone to meeting since that day. I stopped going for 15 months. During that time the workers have blamed us for everything that was ever wrong. They have never acknowledge what the elders son said to me. This exchange was witnessed by a neighbor and her 14 year old son who was in the car that day, with my son. She was shocked at the elder's son and the elder. This was not the first and only incident that happened with this elder. This was the tipping point. When we tried to talk to the workers about out concerns 5 years prior when we first went to this meeting we were told "you have enough sin of your own". I'm not sure I understand your whole story clearly. Please correct me if I get anything wrong. Your son wrecked the elder's car (or maybe the elder's son's car). Is that correct? If that happened then who do you think should have been responsible for the cost of repairing or replacing the vehicle? Did you, your husband, and/or your son accept financial responsibility for the damage?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2012 5:40:41 GMT -5
I am so glad you think the worse of me no matter what I post!!! It was my SON'S car!!!! Thanks for being so judgmental. Do you live in the northeast?
|
|
|
Post by sharonw on Jul 3, 2012 9:23:03 GMT -5
I interpreted what Marie's message speaks about "church" as in having trouble with the whole membership or the whole rules, etc. not just a single meeting. But "those in your church" refers to those who meet together. The only time I've ever heard any 2x2 say church in regards to their religion, period, is when someone was speaking to an outsider...."Oh yes, they said, we go to church." or "Our church doesn't believe in our women wearing trousers." Otherwise, they speak one to another, "We're on our way to mtg." or "Our workers in our area don't believe in women wearing trousers."
|
|
|
Post by sharonw on Jul 3, 2012 9:24:25 GMT -5
Professing people go to CHURCH, calleduntoliberty? Yes, obviously. You know that it is true. Wow. Things must be changing in some parts of the world. I still hear the phrase "false churches." Haven't heard "church" used in any positive way concerning meetings or conventions. Check your KJV Bible. That word 'church' is there. Yes, KJV and other bibles speak about "church", but they're speaking about the collective groups of Jesus' believers and it is "Jesus' church".....
|
|
|
Post by quizzer on Jul 3, 2012 9:29:11 GMT -5
Yes, My husband and I received this letter from the workers in our field. It was after a disagreement with our elder over our son wrecking his car that was not registered or insured at their house. They did not notify us of the accident. He did it in their housing development. When I spoke to the elder, his son and my son after meeting that night I was told by their 17 year old son that everyone drives their cars without registration and insurances. That is true they have let their children drive with out licenses for years. We did not. When I said I did not care if everyone else did it it was wrong, he stood up walked to the door and said F### you. I turned to his father (our elder) and said I expect and apology and he said I think I will leave too, you just yelled at my son. When I called the worker the next day to say I needed to talk to them they told me they could see us in 3-4 weeks. I was so upset that I told them they could find some place else for the workers to stay on special meeting rounds in 2 weeks. On Tuesday morning the next week we received this letter. To this day I have never received and apology from the elder or his son. My husband has never gone to meeting since that day. I stopped going for 15 months. During that time the workers have blamed us for everything that was ever wrong. They have never acknowledge what the elders son said to me. This exchange was witnessed by a neighbor and her 14 year old son who was in the car that day, with my son. She was shocked at the elder's son and the elder. This was not the first and only incident that happened with this elder. This was the tipping point. When we tried to talk to the workers about out concerns 5 years prior when we first went to this meeting we were told "you have enough sin of your own". I'm not sure I understand your whole story clearly. Please correct me if I get anything wrong. Your son wrecked the elder's car (or maybe the elder's son's car). Is that correct? If that happened then who do you think should have been responsible for the cost of repairing or replacing the vehicle? Did you, your husband, and/or your son accept financial responsibility for the damage? The elder brought up the matter at a public meeting for the housing development. It's interesting that marie and her husband weren't notified at the time of the accident, and the elder didn't try to resolve this before making the matter public. Also, of interest, is that swearing is fine as well as dodging laws about vehicle registration. Do you like this behavior in elders, calleduntoliberty?
|
|
|
Post by inpeaceabiding on Jul 3, 2012 23:05:06 GMT -5
This sentence is ambiguous. I read it the same way as CUL. I interpreted it that way largely because of this part...
It seems that if she thinks it is wrong, she wouldn't have been allowing her son to do it.
|
|
|
Post by lazarus66 on Jul 3, 2012 23:52:59 GMT -5
As to the OP, how about a nasty email, or an overseer lying to you, and confirming the lie in an email?
Regardless of the point, Marie and her husband should have been notified, and when the elder and his son became rude, they obviously were not accepting responsibility for their part. When they didn't then the practice in Matthew 18:15-17 should have been followed, but I have never heard of a case where regular ole folk, like myself or perhaps Marie, have been allowed that recourse. It is biblical, but not followed. It causes too much "stress" between the parties and cause a rend in the meeting, with the people.
The fact that it is scriptural and is supposed to be followed is not important. That is one of my major problems with the way many thing are handled.
Yes we all have enough sin of our own, but when the "only way" workers don't follow the only way, that is a problem. That is where my references to the 2x2 "copy and paste bible" that Bert is so fond of comes into play.
Just because some in an area (and don't think for one second this is an isolated case) have practices that are against the laws and are not good for examples for "God's Chosen People" to be having as standard practices for themselves and should be addressed. Again, the problem there is you have an elder that has a little bit more power than the "average bear" and so can institute and back up any behavior he feels is okay regardless of the legality of it, and this leads to problems with those that choose to not use the "church" as a cloak of righteousness, as it is spoken of in the bible.
On behalf of those that I know, love and respect that are in the fellowship and make every attempt to follow the laws they are bound by, My conversations on this topic let me know that they are not happy with this type of disrespect for the law o each other.
I will start a post about the "Copy and Paste Bible so it does not distract to much from this post or thread, but this is what happens and should never even be an issue...................Dale
|
|
|
Post by quizzer on Jul 4, 2012 0:22:22 GMT -5
This sentence is ambiguous. I read it the same way as CUL. I interpreted it that way largely because of this part... It seems that if she thinks it is wrong, she wouldn't have been allowing her son to do it. I think that marie has written her story on TMB before. She and her husband would not have allowed this behavior with her son. However, the elder felt that he needed to intervene, and allowed marie's son more privileges than was allowed in marie's son's home. This was done, also, without marie and her husband knowing.
|
|
|
Post by holdmyhand on Jul 4, 2012 0:26:23 GMT -5
As to the OP, how about a nasty email, or an overseer lying to you, and confirming the lie in an email? When they didn't then the practice in Matthew 18:15-17 should have been followed, but I have never heard of a case where regular ole folk, like myself or perhaps Marie, have been allowed that recourse. It is biblical, but not followed. It causes too much "stress" between the parties and cause a rend in the meeting, with the people. The fact that it is scriptural and is supposed to be followed is not important. That is one of my major problems with the way many thing are handled. Yes we all have enough sin of our own, but when the "only way" workers don't follow the only way, that is a problem. That is where my references to the 2x2 "copy and paste bible" that Bert is so fond of comes into play. To many discissions are made that cannot me backed with NT scripture, when we asked our Overseer about this he replied "Well I will take responsibility for what I decide"
|
|
|
Post by kiwi on Jul 4, 2012 0:40:30 GMT -5
I'm not sure I understand your whole story clearly. Please correct me if I get anything wrong. Your son wrecked the elder's car (or maybe the elder's son's car). Is that correct? If that happened then who do you think should have been responsible for the cost of repairing or replacing the vehicle? Did you, your husband, and/or your son accept financial responsibility for the damage? The elder brought up the matter at a public meeting for the housing development. It's interesting that marie and her husband weren't notified at the time of the accident, and the elder didn't try to resolve this before making the matter public. Also, of interest, is that swearing is fine as well as dodging laws about vehicle registration. Do you like this behavior in elders, calleduntoliberty? That elder would be a pillock if what is stated is true.
|
|
|
Post by lazarus66 on Jul 4, 2012 0:42:33 GMT -5
Holdmyhand, that tells me that he was telling you, "don't worry about the petty stuff, I have all of the questions and my power as a worker will get you over the "humps" and you don't need to worry about anything, I have the keys to the kingdom."
|
|
|
Post by kiwi on Jul 4, 2012 4:44:22 GMT -5
Holdmyhand, that tells me that he was telling you, "don't worry about the petty stuff, I have all of the questions and my power as a worker will get you over the "humps" and you don't need to worry about anything, I have the keys to the kingdom." Man you write a load of twaddle
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2012 6:49:07 GMT -5
My son's car was at the elders because he was helping my son get his car fixed so he could get it registered. I did not know my son was at there house that day. The elders son came and picked him up. My son was in the wrong as much as anyone else. The problems was the elder and his wife were constantly interfering with the way we were raising our children. They though we much to hard on our son. We had never interfered with the way they raised their children. Their son has no respect for authority or his elders. We were not the only ones that had trouble with their interference with parents raising their children. I was the only one willing to speak up. Quizzer is right I have spoke of this before. There is a lot more to what when on in which the workers were involved in.
|
|