jonas
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Post by jonas on Jan 16, 2012 17:35:21 GMT -5
Do workers pay taxes? They should be estimating room and board if absolutely nothing else.
The fact that many overseers and other workers have bank accounts should also lend itself to questioning. I don't care that the secretive bank accounts exist, insomuch that I thankfully left this church a while back. I just think that taxes should be paid on interest earned and the IRS should be investigating to be sure that >$10k in gifts per year are not being added to these accounts. I'm pretty sure that since they aren't an "official religious organization" recognized by our government, they can't NOT pay taxes.
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Post by rational on Jan 16, 2012 18:55:34 GMT -5
Do workers pay taxes? They should be estimating room and board if absolutely nothing else. The fact that many overseers and other workers have bank accounts should also lend itself to questioning. I don't care that the secretive bank accounts exist, insomuch that I thankfully left this church a while back. I just think that taxes should be paid on interest earned and the IRS should be investigating to be sure that >$10k in gifts per year are not being added to these accounts. I'm pretty sure that since they aren't an "official religious organization" recognized by our government, they can't NOT pay taxes. The question is - do the workers have income (according to the legal definition of income)? As far as interest - when an account is opened there has to be a tax ID associated with that account. Any interest generated will be reported to the IRS and a 1099 will be sent to the owner of the account/
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jonas
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Post by jonas on Jan 17, 2012 18:28:18 GMT -5
They legally have income the same way that homeless bums in NYC have an income (via gifts with a cumulative total larger than the allowed $10k non-taxed gift amount). And taxes on workers' income is probably taxed in the same way (not reported).
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Post by Barry G on Jan 17, 2012 21:38:02 GMT -5
Do workers pay taxes? They should be estimating room and board if absolutely nothing else. If you support equal taxation ... support the fair tax ;D
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Post by Gene on Jan 17, 2012 21:54:13 GMT -5
They legally have income the same way that homeless bums in NYC have an income (via gifts with a cumulative total larger than the allowed $10k non-taxed gift amount). And taxes on workers' income is probably taxed in the same way (not reported). There's no limit on the amount a person can receive as a tax-free gift. The limit is on the side of the giver, not the recipient, and it's no longer 10k, it's 13k (I think.) And that's an annual amount from a giver to a single recipient in a year. Husband and wife could each give 13k to each of their children and grandchildren each year. If you as the recipient can get each parent and each aunt and uncle and each cousin to EACH give you 13k per year, you still don't pay tax on it. Even the giver does not pay tax on the amount in excess of the 13k -- but they have to report it. Once the total over a lifetime exceeds the maximum tax-free lifetime gift allowance, THEN the giver starts paying taxes on the gift. And the lifetime max is something like 2.5 million USD.
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Post by DumSpiroSpero on Jan 18, 2012 0:23:46 GMT -5
So... the answer is no. And there is no requirement.
Did I get that right?
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Post by Gene on Jan 18, 2012 5:52:54 GMT -5
They don't pay taxes on the handshake gifts. If they have money in an account earning interest, dividends or capital gains, it's likely that taxes are being paid on that income. But the account is likely not in a worker's name as owner. "Should" they be paying is another matter. Is all that money really a gift? If it's earnings, it should be taxed.
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Post by eyedeetentee on Jan 19, 2012 0:28:15 GMT -5
You have a long way to go to gift me 2.5 million.
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Post by irvinegrey on Jan 20, 2012 14:24:15 GMT -5
A quote from a worker at the Fermanagh Convention 2011 in Northern Ireland:
'We have proved it, we have proved that the simple homeless ministry having left everything and interestingly just talking to someone recently the made the comment, "I never realised that workers don’t have bank accounts"'.
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eh?
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Post by eh? on Jan 20, 2012 19:48:15 GMT -5
Even the giver does not pay tax on the amount in excess of the 13k -- but they have to report it. Once the total over a lifetime exceeds the maximum tax-free lifetime gift allowance, THEN the giver starts paying taxes on the gift. And the lifetime max is something like 2.5 million USD. I don't think that is quite right. The giver does have to pay tax on gifts over the 13k. Someone I know gave money for a scholarship and ended up paying an extra 50% tax on the monies over $26k (husband/wife). Not sure how the government tracks the 'lifetime' giving, don't we only need to keep our records for the last seven years? It looks like 2010 was the best year to die, estate wise. No max.
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Post by Gene on Jan 21, 2012 1:15:53 GMT -5
Even the giver does not pay tax on the amount in excess of the 13k -- but they have to report it. Once the total over a lifetime exceeds the maximum tax-free lifetime gift allowance, THEN the giver starts paying taxes on the gift. And the lifetime max is something like 2.5 million USD. I don't think that is quite right. The giver does have to pay tax on gifts over the 13k. Someone I know gave money for a scholarship and ended up paying an extra 50% tax on the monies over $26k (husband/wife). I think that person you know needs a better tax professional... and a refund. They track it by the gift tax return you file... which you only need to file if you exceed the annual gift tax exclusion It is confusing, and I wouldn't rely on the following information without consulting an attorney and a tax professional, but none the less.... wills.about.com/od/understandingestatetaxes/qt/calculategifttax.htmThe federal gift tax applies to all gifts that you make during the course of your lifetime. However, every U.S. citizen is given a lifetime exemption from paying gift taxes. Thus, a gift tax will only be owed if the total value of all of the gifts that you've made exceeds your lifetime exemption from gift taxes. What Happens Once the Lifetime Gift Tax Exemption is Used Up?
In 2012 gifts valued at $13,000 or less to any one person other than your spouse, or $139,000 for gifts made to a spouse who is not a U.S. citizen, are exempt from federal gift taxes due to the annual exclusion from gift taxes. However, while annual gifts that exceed $13,000, or $139,000 for gifts made to a non citizen spouse, are considered taxable gifts and must be reported to the IRS on Form 709, United States Gift (and Generation-Skipping Transfer) Tax Return, usually the person making the gift will not have to pay any gift tax. Why not? Because, as mentioned above, everyone is given a lifetime gift tax exemption that can be used to offset their taxable gifts. In 2010 the lifetime gift tax exemption was $1,000,000, in 2011 the lifetime exemption increased to $5,000,000, and in 2012 the lifetime exemption is $5,120,000.
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Post by rational on Jan 21, 2012 11:06:46 GMT -5
They legally have income the same way that homeless bums in NYC have an income (via gifts with a cumulative total larger than the allowed $10k non-taxed gift amount). And taxes on workers' income is probably taxed in the same way (not reported). The $10,000 (now $13,000 I think) per year limit is placed on the giver not the receiver. Since it is a gift they legally do not have any income. If 100 people wanted to give me $10,000 a year it would not create a tax nexus. Now, I would be willing to put this to a test with the IRS so let the gifting begin! (sitting here wishing I had read all of Gene's posts first!)
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shushy
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Post by shushy on May 23, 2012 8:04:32 GMT -5
Do workers pay taxes? What a funny question...when I was a kid they had no income. We thought they were poorer than church mice and they looked it. I felt sorry for them. They should be estimating room and board if absolutely nothing else. The fact that many overseers and other workers have bank accounts should also lend itself to questioning. I don't care that the secretive bank accounts exist, insomuch that I thankfully left this church a while back. I just think that taxes should be paid on interest earned and the IRS should be investigating to be sure that >$10k in gifts per year are not being added to these accounts. I'm pretty sure that since they aren't an "official religious organization" recognized by our government, they can't NOT pay taxes.
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Post by calleduntoliberty on May 30, 2012 10:30:25 GMT -5
Do workers pay taxes? They should be estimating room and board if absolutely nothing else. The personal finances of other individuals are not your business.
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Post by saintfan on May 30, 2012 20:27:14 GMT -5
No
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Post by apple on May 31, 2012 12:56:54 GMT -5
Do workers pay taxes? They should be estimating room and board if absolutely nothing else. The personal finances of other individuals are not your business. It is when hardworking people are funding them.
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Post by calleduntoliberty on May 31, 2012 17:09:27 GMT -5
The personal finances of other individuals are not your business. It is when hardworking people are funding them. At most, you could argue that that would make it the business of the people funding them, but only if it such knowledge was stated as a condition of the funding. That wouldn't make it jonas's business. The hardworking people funding them would obviously prefer that they not pay taxes. Otherwise much of their hard-earned money would be wasted.
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Post by Gene on May 31, 2012 18:30:11 GMT -5
It is when hardworking people are funding them. At most, you could argue that that would make it the business of the people funding them, but only if it such knowledge was stated as a condition of the funding. That wouldn't make it jonas's business. The hardworking people funding them would obviously prefer that they not pay taxes. Otherwise much of their hard-earned money would be wasted. I am contributing towards the funding each worker who goes on Medicaid in my state. I wish they had contributed part of their earnings all their lives like I am. I don't begrudge the destitute the tax dollars I contribute toward their welfare... but the workers are hardly destitute. When workers' old-age medical care and nursing home bills are funded by the taxpayers, then it becomes the taxpayers' business.
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Post by calleduntoliberty on May 31, 2012 21:00:24 GMT -5
I am contributing towards the funding each worker who goes on Medicaid in my state. I wish they had contributed part of their earnings all their lives like I am. I don't begrudge the destitute the tax dollars I contribute toward their welfare... but the workers are hardly destitute. That's only one of the many injustices of socialism. Indeed, should every Medicaid recipient's personal financial and medical history become a matter of public record simply because their medical care is funded by taxpayers? Consider the implications.. In any case, there are those who are not on Medicaid or another tax-supported medical system. The original poster did not ask only about whether those on Medicaid pay taxes; he asked about all workers. Even given your dubious assumption that being a member of a group that collectively finances someone's medical care gives you a right to know about that person's private finances, you cannot extend the argument to those who do not participate in such programs.
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Post by Gene on Jun 1, 2012 20:30:44 GMT -5
I am contributing towards the funding each worker who goes on Medicaid in my state. I wish they had contributed part of their earnings all their lives like I am. I don't begrudge the destitute the tax dollars I contribute toward their welfare... but the workers are hardly destitute. That's only one of the many injustices of socialism. Indeed, should every Medicaid recipient's personal financial and medical history become a matter of public record simply because their medical care is funded by taxpayers? Consider the implications.. In any case, there are those who are not on Medicaid or another tax-supported medical system. The original poster did not ask only about whether those on Medicaid pay taxes; he asked about all workers. Even given your dubious assumption that being a member of a group that collectively finances someone's medical care gives you a right to know about that person's private finances, you cannot extend the argument to those who do not participate in such programs. I'm not quite following you. I don't think I suggested that every Medicaid recipient's financial and medical history should be a matter of public record. My point was that if a person is benefiting from taxpayer dollars, then as a taxpayer myself, I have a legitimate interest in their playing by the same rules as everyone else. I used Medicaid as an example; there are many others.
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Post by calleduntoliberty on Jun 2, 2012 12:56:34 GMT -5
I'm not quite following you. I don't think I suggested that every Medicaid recipient's financial and medical history should be a matter of public record. I'm glad you weren't saying that. I thought you were suggesting that you had a right to know those things, since you were responding to a conversation I started by noting that it is not jonas's business (or, by implication, that of any other person here) to know about the personal finances of the workers (or anyone else who does not choose to share that information) -- including whether or not they pay taxes and how much and what form of taxes they pay. And of course, you don't know who benefits and who doesn't, so you really don't have a right to go around demanding to know whether every individual in a large group of people pay taxes or demanding that they do pay taxes. It's also worth noting that this is a much more complicated issue than just taxes and there are good arguments in favor of it being morally legitimate for certain non-taxpayers to take as much advantage as they can from government programs. For example, almost everyone suffers from the effects of government-induced inflation, which can be viewed as another form of tax that funds government programs (via government debt) at the expense of hard-working people (the exception, of course, being those with a high degree of influence over who gets the government money first). It's virtually impossible not to pay some tax or another -- usually numerous taxes -- in almost any populated area of the world.
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Post by eyedeetentee on Jun 2, 2012 14:11:44 GMT -5
Mr. X Retired Worker is living in OK in the worker preferred rest home and is on Medicare. Did he pay income taxes? Ms. Y Retired Worker is living in OK in the worker preferred rest home and is on Medicare. Did she pay income taxes? Ms. Z Retired Worker is living with her sister in TX and is on Medicare. Did she pay income taxes?
CUL says: "It's also worth noting that this is a much more complicated issue than just taxes and there are good arguments in favor of it being morally legitimate for certain non-taxpayers to take as much advantage as they can from government programs."
So workers do not pay taxes? And it's okay for workers to take advantage of the system? When did they stop preaching from the bible? Didn't they used to remind people to obey the laws of the land? Maybe I dreamt that. You are getting blue in the face trying to defend your workers. But it's not working.
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Post by emy on Jun 2, 2012 15:22:45 GMT -5
Mr. X Retired Worker is living in OK in the worker preferred rest home and is on Medicare. Did he pay income taxes? Ms. Y Retired Worker is living in OK in the worker preferred rest home and is on Medicare. Did she pay income taxes? Ms. Z Retired Worker is living with her sister in TX and is on Medicare. Did she pay income taxes? CUL says: "It's also worth noting that this is a much more complicated issue than just taxes and there are good arguments in favor of it being morally legitimate for certain non-taxpayers to take as much advantage as they can from government programs." So workers do not pay taxes? And it's okay for workers to take advantage of the system? When did they stop preaching from the bible? Didn't they used to remind people to obey the laws of the land? Maybe I dreamt that. You are getting blue in the face trying to defend your workers. But it's not working. You have proof that each one in that "worker-preferred" rest home in on Medicare?
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Post by Gene on Jun 2, 2012 21:22:03 GMT -5
I'm not quite following you. I don't think I suggested that every Medicaid recipient's financial and medical history should be a matter of public record. I'm glad you weren't saying that. I thought you were suggesting that you had a right to know those things, since you were responding to a conversation I started by noting that it is not jonas's business (or, by implication, that of any other person here) to know about the personal finances of the workers (or anyone else who does not choose to share that information) -- including whether or not they pay taxes and how much and what form of taxes they pay. And of course, you don't know who benefits and who doesn't, so you really don't have a right to go around demanding to know whether every individual in a large group of people pay taxes or demanding that they do pay taxes. It's also worth noting that this is a much more complicated issue than just taxes and there are good arguments in favor of it being morally legitimate for certain non-taxpayers to take as much advantage as they can from government programs. For example, almost everyone suffers from the effects of government-induced inflation, which can be viewed as another form of tax that funds government programs (via government debt) at the expense of hard-working people (the exception, of course, being those with a high degree of influence over who gets the government money first). It's virtually impossible not to pay some tax or another -- usually numerous taxes -- in almost any populated area of the world. You wrote that I don't know who benefits and who doesn't -- well, that's where you're wrong. Any person living in the state and country I live in is benefiting from taxpayer dollars; ergo, I claim the right to EXPECT them to pay taxes to the extent they are able. As I've said before, I do not EXPECT the indigent to pay taxes; workers are hardly indigent. I'm not arguing your point that I do not have the right to full disclosure of the income and tax payment records of any person, any more than I wish to disclose mine. But I do contend that if another person is illegally evading taxes, it is my business if I wish to make it such.
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Post by calleduntoliberty on Jun 3, 2012 15:34:51 GMT -5
CUL says: "It's also worth noting that this is a much more complicated issue than just taxes and there are good arguments in favor of it being morally legitimate for certain non-taxpayers to take as much advantage as they can from government programs." So workers do not pay taxes? And it's okay for workers to take advantage of the system? When did they stop preaching from the bible? Didn't they used to remind people to obey the laws of the land? Maybe I dreamt that. You are getting blue in the face trying to defend your workers. But it's not working. What are you talking about, eyedeetentee? Who am I defending? My workers? Who are my workers? I didn't know I was trying to defend anyone. Don't ask me whether they pay taxes. I wouldn't know. It's none of my business. My guess would be is that they do in fact pay many forms of taxes, but I don't know which forms you're asking about and it's not my business or yours to pry into. However, if some of them are managing to exercise good stewardship over the resources in their care by keeping them from the taxman in order to use them for legitimate and good purposes, that's unquestionably a good thing.
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Post by calleduntoliberty on Jun 3, 2012 15:44:43 GMT -5
You wrote that I don't know who benefits and who doesn't -- well, that's where you're wrong. Any person living in the state and country I live in is benefiting from taxpayer dollars; ergo, I claim the right to EXPECT them to pay taxes to the extent they are able. As I've said before, I do not EXPECT the indigent to pay taxes; workers are hardly indigent. The claim that all persons benefit from taxpayer dollars is patently false and completely baseless. In fact, only a small minority benefits from taxpayer dollars at the expense of the rest of us. Honest people suffer from taxpayer dollars. I did not say merely that you don't have the right to full disclosure -- in fact you have no right to demand a single bit of information whatsoever regarding their finances. You have made that contention clear. You have failed to support it, however. I contend that since wealth protection is not a crime for which you are the victim, you have no basis for such contention.
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Post by guitar on Sept 28, 2012 15:29:03 GMT -5
I don't think anybody should pay tax. Nobody can spend my money better than me.
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Post by dmmichgood on Sept 28, 2012 18:24:30 GMT -5
I don't think anybody should pay tax. Nobody can spend my money better than me. Then whenever someone breaks into your house And takes our wife, child-whomever as hostage, you aren't going to call the police? You will just wrestle the intruder down risking the chance he/she kill the hostage. If your house is on fire, you aren't going to call the fire department? You'll just use a hose to put out the flames. How about calling the ambulance when your father has a heart attack? You'll just drive him to the hospital by yourself. When your mother, in her senility, can no longer take care of herself, you will take her into your home & in spite of the fact both you and your wife have to work & therefore, can't feed her every meal, make sure she is safe, & change her diaper as needed ( Yes it does happen) You'll not find a caring, safe nursing home for her? When you drive, you'll get out there & make sure the roads are well paved & safe with traffic lights etc.? I'm sure I could think of more but I'm getting tired just thinking of all that work.
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