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Post by afrika on Dec 31, 2011 1:07:10 GMT -5
I must say if I spent as much time praying and meditating as what I am spending reading about man's opinions I would be the Christian I desire to be. I appreciate the WINGS site ,it has opened my eye's. And it contains facts.
God's way is perfect ,but as humans we will fail each other doesn't matter to what church we go.Only Christ in us is our hope of glory and to be with Him one day.
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Post by ts on Dec 31, 2011 13:21:23 GMT -5
For years, even while out of meeting, I viewed this board as a place where "disgruntled" and "bitter" people came. I avoided the tmb. I rarely even read here before I started posting. It was one of the friends who encouraged me to start writing here.
The TMB is not all "man's opinion".
Would you say to the workers, "If you would spend time with God instead of reaching out to the world, you might have something." There comes a time when we have to reach out.
We are a world wide church. There are few workers all over the world who have done a LOT of damage to MANY people's lives. These people, because of the doctrine that promotes fear of speaking ill against "God's servants"(even if they are not acting like true servants) keeps them from speaking up.
The TMB has given a voice to those otherwise weak and unheard people. There are many people who read here who get boldness to speak against bullies.
That is a good thing. We do not need bullies in the work. Workers do not like bullies in the work but they have a hard time speaking out against an overseer who is a bully or else they will lose their place in the work and be labeled as "bitter" or "rebellious". The TMB is helping to put pressure on overseers to do the right thing even if they don't want to.
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inem
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Post by inem on Dec 31, 2011 18:33:14 GMT -5
a few experiences and getting to know a few things going on has made me examine my own faith and dig a little deaper. i just need to geet focused on Jesus. looking around or looking up at someone other than Jesus and we will become dissappointed and discouraged. The Truth is Jesus, the Way is Jesus, fellowship and a ministry is not, churches etc is not the Way or the Truth, Jesus is that and He is the Life. When I meet with others like minded there is fellowship in Jesus.
so bottom-line I aggree with you and I have to be very careful of what my motive when spending time on a board like this
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Post by afrika on Jan 1, 2012 0:31:38 GMT -5
Hey folks I have a new years resolution and that is to not waste my precious time on that ,that does not profit me spiritually and for me this site doesn't. Here is my reasons and you may or may not agree ,that is your freedom of speech.
It doesn't present a active solution to the problems that arise in the meetings.
It waste time that could have been spent more wisely by putting priorities first.
We could be reaching out to others in need actively and not passively.
What about having support groups in the different field where one can meet in person and discuss issues and try and work to wards resolutions instead of blowing of hot air on this site and not contributing to the solutions.
There are people out there in need and we are wasting time. Lets be part of the answer. Lets let God truly lead us and not ourselves.
This comes with wishes for a God centered and lead new year !
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Post by Happy Feet on Jan 1, 2012 13:24:53 GMT -5
Hey folks I have a new years resolution and that is to not waste my precious time on that ,that does not profit me spiritually and for me this site doesn't. Here is my reasons and you may or may not agree ,that is your freedom of speech. It doesn't present a active solution to the problems that arise in the meetings. It waste time that could have been spent more wisely by putting priorities first. We could be reaching out to others in need actively and not passively. What about having support groups in the different field where one can meet in person and discuss issues and try and work to wards resolutions instead of blowing of hot air on this site and not contributing to the solutions. There are people out there in need and we are wasting time. Lets be part of the answer. Lets let God truly lead us and not ourselves. This comes with wishes for a God centered and lead new year ! There are people on here that are in need too. This board does offer solutions to some of the problems in the fellowship. we have seen this in regard to childhood sexual abuse, workers abuse and other issues in the fellowship. It is a place of healing for some. The fellowship is making changes and this board is no doubt partly responsible. Workers read on here and people in the fellowship. Why not see this as your field. People listen on here more than they might in your field. How many people out there in the world can you talk about spiritual things. I see this as a kind of fellowship, discussing spiritual things. I see it as fellowship as we all have a common bond in or from the 2x2 days. I showed a friend the board the other day, and she was impressed by the level of intelligence of people on this board. I am sure there are many things we do in life that that have no spiritual benefit, but I do not see this board as one. We need balance in our lives and talking to others on this board is part of that. This is reaching out to others, communicating with others, talking spiritual to others, caring for others, meeting others. Reaching out and learning from others is positive and important in any ones life. Just because it is on the Internet and not face to face does not mean it is not an important part of life in todays society. Many on here are like minded Christians and it is good to have our faith challenged by those who are not. We are fortunate that we have many ways of communicating these days which was not possible in the past. In the past people were stuck in situations with no help if they were struggling. No more do people have to wait until someone comes to the field and preach to them. They can search the internet and find answers. Have you heard the saying, we can be so heavenly minded that we are no earthly good.
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Post by ts on Jan 2, 2012 17:26:50 GMT -5
Hey folks I have a new years resolution and that is to not waste my precious time on that ,that does not profit me spiritually and for me this site doesn't. Here is my reasons and you may or may not agree ,that is your freedom of speech. It doesn't present a active solution to the problems that arise in the meetings. It waste time that could have been spent more wisely by putting priorities first. We could be reaching out to others in need actively and not passively. What about having support groups in the different field where one can meet in person and discuss issues and try and work to wards resolutions instead of blowing of hot air on this site and not contributing to the solutions. There are people out there in need and we are wasting time. Lets be part of the answer. Lets let God truly lead us and not ourselves. This comes with wishes for a God centered and lead new year ! I see you aren't registered anymore, but perhaps you will check in and see this. One notable case was Alexander who was on the board for a long time with a particular issue of worker abuse. After trying to talk with them privately and them (two overseers) and them refusing to come to the table and listen, Alexander made his case here on the TMB. The resolution is that Alexander now has an official meeting in his home and he got to sit down with the overseers and get a resolution. Overseers are, because of their position, are able to hide behind their authority. That is happening in South Africa as well as other parts of the world. The TMB is a way of blowing their cover and making them accountable.
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Post by ts on Jan 2, 2012 17:59:54 GMT -5
The workers spend a LOT of time preaching the gospel. they might spend years of their lives for the sake of one soul eventually coming to meeting.
Yet they did not seem to have the time to spend with one whole professing family to make sure that they stayed in meeting. It was the persistence of Alexander and the open forum of the tmb that made the difference. Not the overseers who were shunning him.
So, you can't say that the tmb is a waste of time.
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Post by esc862 on Mar 1, 2012 6:12:02 GMT -5
spending time on TMB as allowed me to become much more aware of whats going on..and also other sites also a great enlightenment to say the least well informed now
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2012 16:26:05 GMT -5
I'm wondering why so many ex 2X2's spend time on this board? I would have thought that if they no longer believed and had left fellowship, then they would just walk away, keep on walking, and never look back. It seems like getting divorced from someone and then stalking them! I'm just puzzled, that's all....
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Post by Gene on Mar 1, 2012 20:40:20 GMT -5
For me, it was a way of life for 36 years. I loved the workers in our home as a child. Many things about the work I loved. I still have close friends in the church. I care about the people in the church. It's just not for me. This is the best way I have to stay connected, albeit in a dysfunctional kind of way!
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Post by melissa71 on Mar 2, 2012 17:34:23 GMT -5
I'm wondering why so many ex 2X2's spend time on this board? I would have thought that if they no longer believed and had left fellowship, then they would just walk away, keep on walking, and never look back. It seems like getting divorced from someone and then stalking them! I'm just puzzled, that's all.... First, most ex's are still believers. In God, that is. I think most ex's spend time here because of other people still in the 2x2's or who have just left --who are starting to question, who are hurting and who are looking for answers. To let them know they are not alone -- that we've been there too. Most of us still love the Friends and workers. And, we want to share with them the good news of the REAL gospel story!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2012 17:44:54 GMT -5
OK go ahead - I'm listening!
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Post by melissa71 on Mar 2, 2012 18:12:31 GMT -5
OK go ahead - I'm listening! Awesome! Thank you for giving this opportunity! While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. We have all broken God's laws. We are all sinners. The penalty for sin is death. We deserve punishment. BUT, God loves us SO much, that instead of punishing us as we deserve -- He made a perfect plan of salvation. God Himself became flesh (In the beginning was the Word - and the Word was with God - and the Word WAS God - and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us. John 1) -- Jesus Christ was fully man and fully God-- and He never sinned. He, like the Passover lamb from Exodus ( that was a prophetic depiction of Jesus Christ), was perfect, without spot or blemish. He took our place -- the perfect, atoning sacrifice! By His shed blood on the cross-- He turned away God's wrath from us and washed us clean from our sin. That's what Scripture means when it speaks of Him being the propitiation for our sins. Not because of anything we have done or will do -- we were YET SINNERS. Jesus knew every sin we would ever commit or will ever commit -- and He died for us ANYWAY! Salvation is a GIFT from God -- we are saved by grace THROUGH faith in Jesus Christ. Whosoever BELIEVES in Jesus Christ is saved. Even more than washing us clean from sin, Jesus Christ has JUSTIFIED us -- He, who knew no sin, took our sins upon Himself and took the punishment for them. Our sins were imputed to Him. In turn, He imputed His righteousness to us! So, when God the Father looks on our life -- He does not see our sin-- He sees the righteousness of Jesus Christ. And, God the Father adopts us when we accept His Son-- and makes us His children and heirs of heaven. With Jesus's resurrection, He overcame both death and the grave -- and promises us that we too will experience resurrection and a glorified body -- and an eternal home in heaven. My favorite allegory is of a courtroom. God the Father is the Judge. Our adversary, Satan, is accusing us of our sin, which we indeed have committed. The punishment for our sin is the death penalty. Our attorney, Jesus Christ, steps forward and shows the proof that our debt of sin has already been paid for by His blood. The most righteous Judge declares that we are justified -- and instead of going to prison, to death row -- we are set free. But not just set free to wander into bondage again -- He takes us in, provides for us, loves and cares for us as His children. Paul tells us that we, as believers, all have a ministry. He calls it a ministry of reconciliation. We are supposed to tell the story of how we were reconciled to God. When Adam and Eve sinned -- there was need of a plan to reconcile them and all their descendants to God. Jesus Christ is that plan -- He is THE Way and THE Truth and THE Life. None other, nothing other than Him. If you would like all the Scripture references for everything I have said... I can provide them. Will just take me a bit, as I'm at work and don't have my Bible with me : )
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Post by melissa71 on Mar 2, 2012 18:16:39 GMT -5
Then, after justification -- THEN comes sanctification -- being made holy. That's where works comes in. We do good works because we have been saved.
We don't do good works to be saved...that contradicts Scripture and isn't possible.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2012 18:34:54 GMT -5
I'm wondering why so many ex 2X2's spend time on this board? I would have thought that if they no longer believed and had left fellowship, then they would just walk away, keep on walking, and never look back. It seems like getting divorced from someone and then stalking them! I'm just puzzled, that's all.... FWIW I hang out here for the purposes of helping anyone lurking in the shadows of TMB who may be standing unsure on the edge of the 2x2 bandwagon to understand that if you stop professing you won’t end up in the dungeon of hell. I carried this ridiculous burden around on my shoulders for over a quarter of a century before realising just how ridiculous it was. I also hang out here to beat any 2x2 worker with a stick who comes here yarn spinning, issue fudging, riddle talking or downright lying and to expose any hypocrisy. Finally I hang out here to remind people from time to time that you don’t have to believe something just because some religious leader tells you to or because it is written on the worn out pages of some very ancient book. You don’t have to live your life in bondage to what some desert dwellers or goat herders believed in ancient times or what your parents happen to believe in today. You can start thinking for yourself and put away all the religious nonsense you have been brainwashed into believing from birth. By all means gaze up at the stars and worship the sun and marvel at the wonder of the universe but remember that one only believes in their particular God due to an accident of birth. You don’t have to take it too seriously. Matt10
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2012 9:54:13 GMT -5
Thanks Mel, I feel I've only just recently begun to understand and appreciate all you've shared and I fully agree with you. It's a bit scary that many others don't seem to trust in Jesus sacrifice - are trying to justify themselves by works. Any trying to teach that too.... Yes Matt, I don't believe something just because someone else tells me - I know I have to work out my own salvation. If you guys have left 2X2 fellowship, where do you find friends to have fellowship with now or are you having any fellowship at all? Apart from with God that is? (I don't mean that to sound as though I think that's not possible to have fellowship elsewhere!) Just asking cos I'm interested.
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Post by esc862 on Mar 3, 2012 12:41:32 GMT -5
why do i spend time on this board? to learn things, that the church should of informed us about..I doubt very much has changed in the 2x2 group I remember a few years ago the workers come down i had my William Irvine T-Shirt on BTW
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Post by melissa71 on Mar 3, 2012 14:19:17 GMT -5
Thanks Mel, I feel I've only just recently begun to understand and appreciate all you've shared and I fully agree with you. It's a bit scary that many others don't seem to trust in Jesus sacrifice - are trying to justify themselves by works. Any trying to teach that too.... Yes Matt, I don't believe something just because someone else tells me - I know I have to work out my own salvation. If you guys have left 2X2 fellowship, where do you find friends to have fellowship with now or are you having any fellowship at all? Apart from with God that is? (I don't mean that to sound as though I think that's not possible to have fellowship elsewhere!) Just asking cos I'm interested. I'm not a member of any church, altho' on most Sundays we attend a little local church in our town. But, we visit other churches too. And, my husband (also raised as a 2x2) and I LOVE music, so we go to a lot of Christian concerts too. I find fellowship everywhere -- everytime I meet a Christian and have a good, spiritual conversation. A friend and I had a long, indepth spiritual conversation on a 5 hour trip to a football game this past fall (both of our husbands are the coaches) and we joked about "having church" that day! And, Matt -- I know you don't believe in God, but the reason I do is because He has drawn me to Him since I was nine years old. I believe because I have felt His presence, heard His voice and seen His miracles.
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Post by findingtruth on Mar 3, 2012 19:03:17 GMT -5
Thanks Mel, I feel I've only just recently begun to understand and appreciate all you've shared and I fully agree with you. It's a bit scary that many others don't seem to trust in Jesus sacrifice - are trying to justify themselves by works. Any trying to teach that too.... Yes Matt, I don't believe something just because someone else tells me - I know I have to work out my own salvation. If you guys have left 2X2 fellowship, where do you find friends to have fellowship with now or are you having any fellowship at all? Apart from with God that is? (I don't mean that to sound as though I think that's not possible to have fellowship elsewhere!) Just asking cos I'm interested. imelda, you are a new poster on here too. I'm glad you had the courage to post. It took me a while. I left the fellowship about 2 years ago. It is my guess that many, if not most, who left did so because they wanted to open their hearts to ALL brothers and sisters in Christ and not a select few. Have you ever watched the DVD "Faith like Potatoes"? If not, I encourage you to watch it. I have been following TMB for 3 years and it helped me to understand that what I was feeling was not a result of bitterness, rebellion or unwillingness but a deeper hunger for God's pure Word. It's good to see others who left the fellowship who have a stronger relationship than ever with Jesus our Savior and redeemer. I do want to say that I believe there are those in the fellowship who also have a wonderful relationship with God.
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meg1
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Post by meg1 on Mar 3, 2012 23:19:49 GMT -5
Thanks Mel, I feel I've only just recently begun to understand and appreciate all you've shared and I fully agree with you. It's a bit scary that many others don't seem to trust in Jesus sacrifice - are trying to justify themselves by works. Any trying to teach that too.... Yes Matt, I don't believe something just because someone else tells me - I know I have to work out my own salvation. If you guys have left 2X2 fellowship, where do you find friends to have fellowship with now or are you having any fellowship at all? Apart from with God that is? (I don't mean that to sound as though I think that's not possible to have fellowship elsewhere!) Just asking cos I'm interested. The interesting thing for me is that it is everyday, everywhere! How freeing and exciting. Living full.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2012 2:28:56 GMT -5
And, Matt -- I know you don't believe in God, but the reason I do is because He has drawn me to Him since I was nine years old. I believe because I have felt His presence, heard His voice and seen His miracles. Mel, I don’t believe in the Christian God – I think that’s what you mean. Of course I used to - I believed all the standard issue stuff about the Christian God from I was a child until I woke up one glorious day and realised that I merely believed what I believed because I was ‘programmed’ into believing it from birth. I realised that I was psychologically battered into believing it through an unhealthy combination of my sincere Christian God believing parents and all those countless endless hours endured in the bosom of the (2x2) church. Given that background there wasn’t a cat’s chance in hell that I could possibly believe anything else. I expect most here have similar story to tell. I even believed that the Christian God spoke to me too but I realise now that what I deemed to be ‘Him’ speaking to me was just the logical conclusion of a mind programmed to believe that ‘He’ spoke to people. I stopped believing that the Christian God spoke to people nearly twenty years ago and 'He' hasn’t spoken to me since. Not a solitary word. Either ‘He’ doesn’t really speak to people or 'He' has completely given up on me. And I have never since witnessed a ‘miracle’ that couldn’t be deemed to be the result of something else. Of course one doesn’t need to believe in the Christian God or have ‘fellowship’ (I try to avoid any terminology associated with the programming) with other Christians to have a rewarding spiritual experience. Or to ‘feel the presence of God near’ if that’s what you want to call it. I have had greater spiritual experiences listening to a piece of music or sitting at the top of a mountain watching the sun rising than I ever had ‘having fellowship’ with other Christians. Indeed I have greater spiritual experiences in churches that are quiet and empty than churches that have Christian God believing people in them. For me the spiritual experience of being in a church is inevitably ruined the moment the bloke at the front stands up, opens his bible and starts speaking. And it goes downhill even further once the congregation starts singing. I worked out one day that I’d sang approximately twenty-five THOUSAND hymns (some even in tune) during my Christian God believing sojourn and I can’t recall a single spiritual experience during any one of them. Matt10
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Post by melissa71 on Mar 4, 2012 9:45:30 GMT -5
Matt - I'm going to PM you -- as I kind of took the thread off track.
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Post by eyedeetentee on Mar 4, 2012 10:29:25 GMT -5
I lay in wait, lurking in the shadows, ready to pounce on certain ones who threw the dictionary out the backdoor years ago or use it to level the undusted piano. My prey is that one who knew and understood grammar when he/she was in sixth grade, went to college, but decided a sixth grade education was enough and has now reverted to pre-grammar school writing.
But my true purpose on this board is watching those who don't believe they are being watched and teaching them the true truth - aliens and The Company are all around you. We protect you day in and day out. We also eat your kind but that's a conversation for another day.
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Post by open mind on Mar 22, 2012 20:44:33 GMT -5
remember that one only believes in their particular God due to an accident of birth. You don’t have to take it too seriously. Matt10 So true!
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guilt
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Post by guilt on Apr 1, 2012 10:05:29 GMT -5
FWIW I hang out here for the purposes of helping anyone lurking in the shadows of TMB who may be standing unsure on the edge of the 2x2 bandwagon to understand that if you stop professing you won’t end up in the dungeon of hell. I carried this ridiculous burden around on my shoulders for over a quarter of a century before realising just how ridiculous it was. Amen! This is one of the first Principles of Doctrine drilled into new 2x2s. Best to instill the fear-factor early on.
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Post by eyedeetentee on Apr 1, 2012 23:58:45 GMT -5
That's the whole point of the bible and christianity - instill fear to make the people obey. It is not just for one little brainwashed group, it is for all mankind. Glad I'm an alien - it doesn't affect me.
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shushy
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Post by shushy on Apr 7, 2012 22:39:35 GMT -5
I lay in wait, lurking in the shadows, ready to pounce on certain ones who threw the dictionary out the backdoor years ago or use it to level the undusted piano. My prey is that one who knew and understood grammar when he/she was in sixth grade, went to college, but decided a sixth grade education was enough and has now reverted to pre-grammar school writing. But my true purpose on this board is watching those who don't believe they are being watched and teaching them the true truth - aliens and The Company are all around you. We protect you day in and day out. We also eat your kind but that's a conversation for another day. Which breed are you??
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Post by eyedeetentee on Apr 8, 2012 16:31:08 GMT -5
I can't tell you.
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