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Post by Done4now on Feb 9, 2010 20:51:02 GMT -5
here is how to stop this kind of behavior and force the overseers to do something about it.
Parents with young children should tell the overseers that unless measures are taken to protect their children--that they will NOT open their homes to the workers. Then the pressure would be on the overseers to fix it.
As most of the (esp male) workers go into the work at a very young age (18 or so), they would not have a record (even if they did it would be a juvenile record -- which would be sealed and not available to be checked). If I was an overseer I would have a psychological evaluation performed on each candidate for the ministry to determine their fitness. That would at least give them an idea of what they are dealing with from the beginning.
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Post by freespirit on Feb 9, 2010 21:25:50 GMT -5
here is how to stop this kind of behavior and force the overseers to do something about it. Parents with young children should tell the overseers that unless measures are taken to protect their children--that they will NOT open their homes to the workers. Then the pressure would be on the overseers to fix it. Sounds like a good idea. One of the "weaknesses" in the fellowship is that there is no place--by that I mean like a town-hall meeting--where open discussion happens--a safe place to voice ideas or concerns or even complaints. In a way, this characteristic of the group is also a "strength" so I really don't have an answer. When people act in moral and upright ways, the group works nicely. When people do not, it is a big ugly horrible mess. I guess that's the same with all groups. Just making conversation. freespirit
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Post by buzzybee on Feb 9, 2010 21:33:03 GMT -5
If the overseer knew about the sexual abuse of one of his workers, he should have been the first to file charges. Firing him and sending him home is not enough imo. Protection of innocent children should be the first responsibility of an overseer not the protection of the abuser. You are spot on Snow!!!!
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shiloh
Senior Member
Posts: 723
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Post by shiloh on Feb 9, 2010 21:35:34 GMT -5
One of the "weaknesses" in the fellowship is that there is no place--by that I mean like a town-hall meeting--where open discussion happens--a safe place to voice ideas or concerns or even complaints. **** As much as I love many of these people to death, this is a glaring concern. As I say, checks and balances. For this man to be sent to New York without alerting the friends in his area is NEGLENCE. Willful neglegence. And if he was at Freedom or another convention afterwards with NO WARNINGS, this is horrible.
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Post by buzzybee on Feb 9, 2010 21:36:31 GMT -5
There should be investigation of every home and place that he could have affected any children. There are no cases where a pedophile just picks on one kid. The average number of kids per pedophile are staggering.
I think this is something the older brothers should be aware of, and look for signs. But oh, they are not formally trained for any of this stuff. It seems like they brag about God being their only teacher. In cases of CSA some formal training should be mandatory.
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Post by buzzybee on Feb 9, 2010 21:38:03 GMT -5
The workers are accountable to no one, that is the sole issue.
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Post by freespirit on Feb 9, 2010 21:45:03 GMT -5
One of the "weaknesses" in the fellowship is that there is no place--by that I mean like a town-hall meeting--where open discussion happens--a safe place to voice ideas or concerns or even complaints. **** As much as I love many of these people to death, this is a glaring concern. As I say, checks and balances. For this man to be sent to New York without alerting the friends in his area is NEGLENCE. Willful neglegence. And if he was at Freedom or another convention afterwards with NO WARNINGS, this is horrible. "Horrible" is too mild a term. freespirit
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Post by degem on Feb 9, 2010 21:57:49 GMT -5
yes both were at NY conventions
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Post by freespirit on Feb 9, 2010 22:01:59 GMT -5
yes both were at NY conventions AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH! What the bleep is wrong with these people who are supposed to be church leaders?!?!?!?!?!? Luke 12:45But suppose the servant says to himself, 'My master is taking a long time in coming,' and he then begins to beat the menservants and maidservants and to eat and drink and get drunk. 46The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers. okay, I'm breathing again. freespirit
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Post by snow on Feb 9, 2010 22:05:04 GMT -5
yes both were at NY conventions AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH! What the bleep is wrong with these people who are supposed to be church leaders?!?!?!?!?!? Luke 12:45But suppose the servant says to himself, 'My master is taking a long time in coming,' and he then begins to beat the menservants and maidservants and to eat and drink and get drunk. 46The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers. okay, I'm breathing again. freespirit Well that's good cause my CPR's a little rusty.....
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Post by Scott Ross on Feb 9, 2010 22:34:41 GMT -5
I think this is something the older brothers should be aware of, and look for signs. But oh, they are not formally trained for any of this stuff. It seems like they brag about God being their only teacher. In cases of CSA some formal training should be mandatory. Lyle Schober (overseer of Minnesota) and Ray Hoffman (overseer of Texas) have made available an on-line course concerning CSA to workers in their fields, and have also made it available to other workers as well. This is a positive step in regard to understanding and educating workers about CSA issues. Likewise Lyle told the workers on his staff that they are to report CSA issues to the authorities before reporting it to him. (as required by law) Scott
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Post by freespirit on Feb 9, 2010 22:38:52 GMT -5
I really like Lyle and Ray. Thank you for posting that, Scott. freespirit
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Post by Scott Ross on Feb 9, 2010 22:44:02 GMT -5
You're welcome! Both those guys have done quite a bit that hasn't been made public knowledge in trying to deal with issues. Not saying they are perfect, but they each have taken a bold step forward in dealing with issues as they have come up. It is a whole new approach to dealing with these issues openly and in accordance with the laws of the states that they oversee, and it is very encouraging that they have done so. Scott
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Post by buzzybee on Feb 9, 2010 22:44:57 GMT -5
I think this is something the older brothers should be aware of, and look for signs. But oh, they are not formally trained for any of this stuff. It seems like they brag about God being their only teacher. In cases of CSA some formal training should be mandatory. Lyle Schober (overseer of Minnesota) and Ray Hoffman (overseer of Texas) have made available an on-line course concerning CSA to workers in their fields, and have also made it available to other workers as well. This is a positive step in regard to understanding and educating workers about CSA issues. Likewise Lyle told the workers on his staff that they are to report CSA issues to the authorities before reporting it to him. (as required by law) Scott Yes, Scott, but isn't that retroactive, instead of proactive. Hmmmm i guess either of those is better that noactive.
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Post by buzzybee on Feb 9, 2010 22:46:24 GMT -5
wow, great minds, think at the same exact time....
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Feb 9, 2010 22:46:25 GMT -5
Let's not lose objectivity here, what about the majority of CSA offenders - parents and relatives?? The conviction list and Breaking the Silence stories on WINGS match that stastical fact. No matter how much worker focus and bashing there is the workers are actually in a place where they could be the only ones to intervene in parent/relative CSA. Anyone ever think about that?
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Post by buzzybee on Feb 9, 2010 22:52:17 GMT -5
oh, don't get me started.......Is there even one case where a worker has reported a parent etc. Usually, it comes down upon the kids to "OBEY THEIR PARENTS.
Now maybe with Lyles "approval" workers may do this, or they may not.
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White Knight
Senior Member
THE SHADOW KNOWS. In the shadow of the highest is a refuge from all fear.
Posts: 510
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Post by White Knight on Feb 9, 2010 23:06:01 GMT -5
Well, Well, Well, what do we have here? Don’t look like anything new…., that I haven’t already said except it’s been allowed to stay on including the names, pictures etc. May I ask where the court docket is? Seems to me a double standard is quite evident and in full bloom here, is it not? “Oh” well looks like the worms have really been blown out of the can this time…. . Looks like its coming straight out of MI. IT’S about time you MI folk spoke up!!
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Post by aussiegal on Feb 9, 2010 23:16:28 GMT -5
Let's not lose objectivity here, what about the majority of CSA offenders - parents and relatives?? The conviction list and Breaking the Silence stories on WINGS match that stastical fact. No matter how much worker focus and bashing there is the workers are actually in a place where they could be the only ones to intervene in parent/relative CSA. Anyone ever think about that? Jesse, They are still bound by law to report it to the authorities. I wouldn't have any trouble with the workers "intervening" in parent/relative CSA if they were actually educated to do just that. However I would say that most are not. I think the overseers that have put their staff through training are to be commended and would hope that there will be more overseers to follow suit. So to answer your question... yes I have thought about that! AG.
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Feb 9, 2010 23:21:20 GMT -5
Start up buzzy, in the realm of speculation and imagination anything possible - even the premise that there can't possibly be anything good at all when it comes to workers - so let's bash 'em all.
~ l
Another thing, have any of you looked at a high school wrestling picture and thought - that's kinda weird. Face it, some wrestling moves are weird to people that don't wrestle. Seems the PC crowd won't be happy until every guy's a girly man. Nowdays the angel would be viewed as strange or a pervert for wrestling with Jacob all night - and then touching Jacob's thigh -- weeeiiird.
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Feb 9, 2010 23:27:20 GMT -5
Let's not lose objectivity here, what about the majority of CSA offenders - parents and relatives?? The conviction list and Breaking the Silence stories on WINGS match that stastical fact. No matter how much worker focus and bashing there is the workers are actually in a place where they could be the only ones to intervene in parent/relative CSA. Anyone ever think about that? Jesse, They are still bound by law to report it to the authorities. I wouldn't have any trouble with the workers "intervening" in parent/relative CSA if they were actually educated to do just that. However I would say that most are not. I think the overseers that have put their staff through training are to be commended and would hope that there will be more overseers to follow suit. So to answer your question... yes I have thought about that! AG. Thank you! Notice how many haven't thought about it? Education is the key, not jumping on a runaway bashwagon.
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Post by snow on Feb 9, 2010 23:31:08 GMT -5
Start up buzzy, in the realm of speculation and imagination anything possible - even the premise that there can't possibly be anything good at all when it comes to workers - so let's bash 'em all. ~ l Another thing, have any of you looked at a high school wrestling picture and thought - that's kinda weird. Face it, some wrestling moves are weird to people that don't wrestle. Seems the PC crowd won't be happy until every guy's a girly man. Nowdays the angel would be viewed as strange or a pervert for wrestling with Jacob all night - and then touching Jacob's thigh -- weeeiiird. I've watched lots of wrestling and yes the moves definitely could easily be thought to be something other than what they are. However, what we are talking about here is not wrestling between two opponents that are age appropriate. This is a man and a kid. That is where it's not appropriate and becomes sexual assault. Why do you continue to defend a person who has committed a sexual assault of an underage person?
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Post by aussiegal on Feb 9, 2010 23:36:18 GMT -5
Jesse, They are still bound by law to report it to the authorities. I wouldn't have any trouble with the workers "intervening" in parent/relative CSA if they were actually educated to do just that. However I would say that most are not. I think the overseers that have put their staff through training are to be commended and would hope that there will be more overseers to follow suit. So to answer your question... yes I have thought about that! AG. Thank you! Notice how many haven't thought about it? Education is the key, not jumping on a runaway bashwagon. I don't see a runaway bashwagon here Jesse. I see people that are concerned about SOME workers that have abused children in their position. I don't see it as a bashing of ALL workers. I think we both agree that there are some bad apples in the apple cart right?
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Post by emy on Feb 9, 2010 23:37:56 GMT -5
I think this is something the older brothers should be aware of, and look for signs. But oh, they are not formally trained for any of this stuff. It seems like they brag about God being their only teacher. In cases of CSA some formal training should be mandatory. Lyle Schober (overseer of Minnesota) and Ray Hoffman (overseer of Texas) have made available an on-line course concerning CSA to workers in their fields, and have also made it available to other workers as well. This is a positive step in regard to understanding and educating workers about CSA issues. Likewise Lyle told the workers on his staff that they are to report CSA issues to the authorities before reporting it to him. (as required by law) Scott Yes, Scott, but isn't that retroactive, instead of proactive. Hmmmm i guess either of those is better that noactive. I would say online CSA training is proactive, wouldn't you?
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Post by pinky on Feb 9, 2010 23:41:03 GMT -5
Why do you continue to defend a person who has committed a sexual assault of an underage person? That's because Jesse's on his own runaway blind-worker-defense wagon. It's not pretty, is it.
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Post by emy on Feb 9, 2010 23:42:04 GMT -5
Why do you continue to defend a person who has committed a sexual assault of an underage person? I don't see him defending the perp - just trying to educate people about the subject in general.
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Feb 9, 2010 23:43:50 GMT -5
Thank you! Notice how many haven't thought about it? Education is the key, not jumping on a runaway bashwagon. I don't see a runaway bashwagon here Jesse. I see people that are concerned about SOME workers that have abused children in their position. I don't see it as a bashing of ALL workers. I think we both agree that there are some bad apples in the apple cart right? Yes I can agree, now here's something for you to consider. Pay attention to the context every time you read the word "worker" here and on the counter advocacy sites. How often is it critical and how often is it positive? When you've done that then tell me there's no bashwagon.
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Feb 9, 2010 23:53:21 GMT -5
Why do you continue to defend a person who has committed a sexual assault of an underage person? That's because Jesse's on his own runaway blind-worker-defense wagon. It's not pretty, is it. Ugly strawman you imagined up there pinky. Snow, why do you imagine I'm defending sexual assult? What have I said that gives you that idea?
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