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Post by sharonw on Jun 3, 2010 7:26:51 GMT -5
Actually I can almost guarantee you that jhjmr is in the big middle of the current CSA issues and has been for some time...that said it is again TMB practices to put anything on TMB as proof other then legal documents that are available to the public.....also it is an invasion of privacy for those victims/families that do not want the issue known in such a extended matter....... If someone has facts they are posting they should be willing to provide backup for their claims or it is just rumors and gossip. An " almost guarantee" is not much of a statement of veracity without some information that can be used to verify it. In any case, I'm not sure what you could provide as a guarantee that would assure this particular condition. or, in this case, almost offer. \ Well, if anyone is aware of where the current CSA issues are, then the fact of the person being there and has been there for a length of time...that is information that can be used to verify it WITHOUT breaking the rules of TMB nor privacy laws....just takes a little brain work to get the information to working in a stubborn brain!
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Post by rational on Jun 3, 2010 8:54:19 GMT -5
Well, if anyone is aware of where the current CSA issues are, then the fact of the person being there and has been there for a length of time...that is information that can be used to verify it WITHOUT breaking the rules of TMB nor privacy laws....just takes a little brain work to get the information to working in a stubborn brain! Do you mean that thinking just because someone lives in the area and has heard the gossip that it should be considered absolutely true without any additional backup? Many people believe that an eye witness is as good as proof while overlooking the fact that it has been shown that in most cases eye witnesses are not good sources of information at all. That's right Sharon, the magician's assistant really didn't vanish into thin air from the stage even though there are 5,000 eye witnesses who will say they saw it with their own eyes. You are right - it does take a little brain work to distinguish between facts and anecdotal evidence. And there are those who are very stubborn in looking at collected data that contradicts their preconceived notions. And just to be clear - when you write CSA do you mean Criminal Sexual Assault or Criminal Sexual Abuse?
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Post by sharonw on Jun 3, 2010 20:41:04 GMT -5
Well, if anyone is aware of where the current CSA issues are, then the fact of the person being there and has been there for a length of time...that is information that can be used to verify it WITHOUT breaking the rules of TMB nor privacy laws....just takes a little brain work to get the information to working in a stubborn brain! Do you mean that thinking just because someone lives in the area and has heard the gossip that it should be considered absolutely true without any additional backup? NO! How about living within it?And just to be clear - when you write CSA do you mean Criminal Sexual Assault or Criminal Sexual Abuse? And also to be clear, why are you asking ME what CSA means...everybody else has used CSA and knows what it means, but you ask?
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Post by rational on Jun 3, 2010 21:42:11 GMT -5
Do you mean that thinking just because someone lives in the area and has heard the gossip that it should be considered absolutely true without any additional backup? NO! How about living within it?How about it? I looked back through this thread and there was no indication that people had first hand knowledge. That would be some additional information. So assuming there are people involved. That would certainly provide insight into one side of the situation. But my understanding is that there are two sides. The subject refers to 4th degree CSC. You have been using CSA which could mean criminal sexual assault (which would be in line with the subject line), criminal sexual abuse (which would also be in line with legal considerations), or child sexual abuse (which is not a legal designation). So, the reason I asked was it is not possible from the context to know which one you were using.
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eaglesnest
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Never look down on someone, unless you are helping them up.....Jesse Jackson
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Post by eaglesnest on Jun 3, 2010 21:49:23 GMT -5
PM is near the penalty phase of his case. It's customary that one spends their jail time in the jurisdiction that they are convicted, which in his case is MI versus the eastern state he lives. Wonder if he'll be immediately listed on the MI SOL list, then have it transferred when he reports to his probation officer where-ever he permanently resides? He'll be spending his time in a county-jail versus prison if his sentence is 90-120 days of jail time. When is the penalty time for him?
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Post by Scott Ross on Jun 3, 2010 21:51:22 GMT -5
When is the penalty time for him?I believe sentencing is next Monday the 7th. Scott
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eaglesnest
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Never look down on someone, unless you are helping them up.....Jesse Jackson
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Post by eaglesnest on Jun 3, 2010 23:42:14 GMT -5
When is the penalty time for him?I believe sentencing is next Monday the 7th. Scott Thank you, Scott....I appreciate your answering my question... :-)
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Post by sharonw on Jun 4, 2010 7:32:44 GMT -5
How about it? I looked back through this thread and there was no indication that people had first hand knowledge. That would be some additional information. So assuming there are people involved. That would certainly provide insight into one side of the situation. But my understanding is that there are two sides. The subject refers to 4th degree CSC. You have been using CSA which could mean criminal sexual assault (which would be in line with the subject line), criminal sexual abuse (which would also be in line with legal considerations), or child sexual abuse (which is not a legal designation). So, the reason I asked was it is not possible from the context to know which one you were using. CSC seems to really be about CSA - child sexual abuse - which is what most of us do not like! Though admittedly CSC seems a light sentence.
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Post by rational on Jun 4, 2010 8:51:19 GMT -5
The subject refers to 4th degree CSC. You have been using CSA which could mean criminal sexual assault (which would be in line with the subject line), criminal sexual abuse (which would also be in line with legal considerations), or child sexual abuse (which is not a legal designation). So, the reason I asked was it is not possible from the context to know which one you were using. CSC seems to really be about CSA - child sexual abuse - which is what most of us do not like! Though admittedly CSC seems a light sentence. Yes it does but from a legal standpoint CSA is criminal sexual abuse. I don't think child sexual abuse is a legal criminal offense. Hence my confusion when the terms were being used interchangeably. And yes, the devil is in the details.
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eaglesnest
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Never look down on someone, unless you are helping them up.....Jesse Jackson
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Post by eaglesnest on Jun 7, 2010 11:35:39 GMT -5
Has anyone heard yet about Peter Mousseau's sentencing that happened today?
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Post by jhjmr on Jun 7, 2010 20:58:56 GMT -5
The overseer definitely knew of the abuse. He finally wrote about it and mentioned more than one worker. But, that was way past the misconduct and then it was not reported to the authorities. Ask any worker in Michigan and they will tell you about the misconduct. It was not a secret, it was just discussed in a whisper. There are definitely legal documents about how things transpired and by whom. When they become public, you can all read them. I am way beyond worrying about whether anyone wants to believe anything or pretend it isn't true or better yet that it doesn't matter. Abuse is abuse, put any CSA attachment to any of it, it fits the crime. And, it is all a crime. Hop scotching over this initial or that doesn't make one bit of difference. It is to bad that instead of just being a registered sex offender, it isn't required to wear a sign daily. Embarrassment isn't half as bad as the abuse. And, please remove your head from the sand pile, the workers and overseers know about everything and we all know it and there is no pretending different. It is people that pretend that cause the workers to pretend they don't know. Stand up for what is right, stand up for misconduct to be stopped and not tolerated. Stand up and be counted for justice for once!! There is a very fine line between pretending and lying.
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eaglesnest
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Never look down on someone, unless you are helping them up.....Jesse Jackson
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Post by eaglesnest on Jun 7, 2010 21:10:31 GMT -5
The overseer definitely knew of the abuse. He finally wrote about it and mentioned more than one worker. But, that was way past the misconduct and then it was not reported to the authorities. Ask any worker in Michigan and they will tell you about the misconduct. It was not a secret, it was just discussed in a whisper. There are definitely legal documents about how things transpired and by whom. When they become public, you can all read them. I am way beyond worrying about whether anyone wants to believe anything or pretend it isn't true or better yet that it doesn't matter. Abuse is abuse, put any CSA attachment to any of it, it fits the crime. And, it is all a crime. Hop scotching over this initial or that doesn't make one bit of difference. It is to bad that instead of just being a registered sex offender, it isn't required to wear a sign daily. Embarrassment isn't half as bad as the abuse. And, please remove your head from the sand pile, the workers and overseers know about everything and we all know it and there is no pretending different. It is people that pretend that cause the workers to pretend they don't know. Stand up for what is right, stand up for misconduct to be stopped and not tolerated. Stand up and be counted for justice for once!! There is a very fine line between pretending and lying. yes...i have read some of those letters overseers have written ...all we can do is make sure our own heads are not in the sand pile - we can't change others....i it is a Law of the Harvest that we reap what we sow, sooner or later - sad to think of others who have suffered because of misconduct - very sad to think of that...it might take years of therapy to get over the violation of their own personal space by someone they trusted...such a shame.... i wonder what has happened at the sentencing - scott mentioned it was today...
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Post by Scott Ross on Jun 8, 2010 7:38:29 GMT -5
The following info was pulled from the Michigan Public Sex Offender Registry. The actual sentence isn't shown yet, but it is showing Peter as incarcerated and registered. The length of registration is the same as that which Darren Briggs received. (25 years) If you want to see the actual info from the registry, follow the link below www.nsopw.gov/Core/ResultDetails.aspx?index=0&x=FB37905B-6F92-4AAA-AC04-39B50C9AA2E8Peter William Mousseau *** COMPLIANT *** Physical Characteristics Gender: Male Eyes: Blue Race: White Hair: Brown DOB: 02/15/1970 Height: 5' 05 Age: 40 Weight: 170 lbs Registration Details Status: Compliant Last Verification Date: Not Available Date of Initial Registration: 06/07/2010 Date of Registration Expiration: 06/07/2035 Michigan Public Sex Offender Registry (PSOR) Offense Description State Conviction Date Court Name 750.520E Criminal Sexual Conduct 4th Degree (Multiple Variables) MI 04/26/2010 Not Available **This link reflects the current statute and due to continuous legislative changes, may not be indicative of the statute at the time the offender was convicted.** Address Information Type Street Address City State Zip Primary Out Of State Chesterfield NH 63466 Campus/School Information Role Name Street City State Zip None Identification SOR # 20016465 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MDOC: Known Alias(es) None Known Scars/Marks/Tattoos None xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Offender Detail Michigan.gov HomeMSP Home | MSP Site Map | Contact MSP | MSP FAQ Offender Name Peter William Mousseau *** COMPLIANT *** Physical Characteristics Gender: Male Eyes: Blue Race: White Hair: Brown DOB: 02/15/1970 Height: 5' 05 Age: 40 Weight: 170 lbs Registration Details Status: Compliant Last Verification Date: Not Available Date of Initial Registration: 06/07/2010 Date of Registration Expiration: 06/07/2035 Michigan Public Sex Offender Registry (PSOR) Offense Description State Conviction Date Court Name 750.520E Criminal Sexual Conduct 4th Degree (Multiple Variables) MI 04/26/2010 Not Available **This link reflects the current statute and due to continuous legislative changes, may not be indicative of the statute at the time the offender was convicted.** Address Information Type Street Address City State Zip Primary Out Of State Chesterfield NH 63466 Campus/School Information Role Name Street City State Zip None Identification SOR # 20016465 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MDOC: Known Alias(es) None Known Scars/Marks/Tattoos None [/img]
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Post by Scott Ross on Jun 8, 2010 7:44:39 GMT -5
The differences between the sentence for Peter as opposed to Darren that I can see is in the description of the offense.
Darren:
750.520E1A Criminal Sexual Conduct 4th Degree(Force Or Coercion)
Peter:
750.520E Criminal Sexual Conduct 4th Degree (Multiple Variables)
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eaglesnest
Junior Member
Never look down on someone, unless you are helping them up.....Jesse Jackson
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Post by eaglesnest on Jun 8, 2010 15:21:42 GMT -5
The differences between the sentence for Peter as opposed to Darren that I can see is in the description of the offense. Darren: 750.520E1A Criminal Sexual Conduct 4th Degree (Force Or Coercion)Peter: 750.520E Criminal Sexual Conduct 4th Degree (Multiple Variables) Is he going to jail like Darren?
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Post by Scott Ross on Jun 8, 2010 19:30:26 GMT -5
Would have thought WINGS would have been all over this in their Convicted Sex Offenders area of their website. Checked last night at 11 PM and ten minutes ago and nothing.Well..... Since I am the administrator of WINGS, and since I posted it here...... I guess you could say that WINGS is all over it.... We have been following this all along, and have been keeping tabs on court dates etc. We won't post it on WINGS until it is completed. Last I checked it didn't have all the info listed on the website. Another thing we have been following is the overseer training and meetings that have been going on. There was 'sensitivity training' in Chicago that several of them attended, and this past weekend there was a LARGE gathering of workers (around 50 or so) at the Seneca convention grounds. These workers were from all over the US, and they reached the decision to send a letter to all the elders with instructions on how to handle abuse situations that happen. I would certainly expect the letter to encourage the elders to learn what the law is in their respective state, and to make sure that they realize the importance of following the law in regard to reporting issues of abuse. This letter is addressing more than just child abuse, and also will mention what to do in cases of other types of abuse. Also, recently there was an arbitrator called in to be a mediator in an issue between one of female friends and an overseer. Interestingly enough, the arbitrator happens to also be a Rabbi. This arbitration doesn't appear to have reached a real successful conclusion, and the issue has not been put to rest as of this time. It will be interesting to read the letter that is finally sent out in regard to abuse issues. I find it is very encouraging to hear about a meeting involving so many overseers from around the country concerning abuse issues, and I am sure that all the professing folks will be glad to read how seriously they have decided to treat abuse issues from now on in the truth fellowship. Scott
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Post by Scott Ross on Jun 8, 2010 21:22:23 GMT -5
That's great to hear that the tide has apparently began to turn on these issues. Overall those in the faith are good people, and I cherish the memories of those I encountered during my 20+ years of professing, where a number of personal friends are still in the Work. But learning of some of the promiscuous and sexual habits of the Workers, over the last couple of years, whether with children-other Workers-married women-... has been extremely disturbing and I will never accept the excuse of 'that they are human' as a credible whimper for an unearthed offender during their ministerial sacrifice. They knew the game going in. The shuffling of offenders and intentional hushed disregard has done nothing more that scourge the reputation of those that strive to be true to their commitment and sadly, no matter what the situation, there's always a victim whether it's consensual or not as no one walks away untarnished if a Worker is a participant in such activities.That is very well stated gz. I have noticed many of the younger workers that have left in the last few years included several that were well regarded by professing folks that were really sad to see them quit the work. I am convinced that several of them left because of the cover-ups and shuffling around of other workers, and loss of trust and respect for the overseers that they 'worked' for. Pretty sad really..... If those workers that screwed up were dealt with firmly AND in a biblical manner, there would be a lot more trust for the workers and overseers. I've heard of a lot of folks no longer trusting their overseers because of the way they have handled issues. Scott
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Post by What Hat on Jun 8, 2010 23:07:56 GMT -5
This is very encouraging news, Scott. It might not be the ultimate solution yet, but it sounds like a very good start. In some ways people are afraid to mention "the elephant in the room", but a letter like that will get people talking more and that's a good thing. Cleansing can only begin if we first recognize and admit our sins.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2010 0:44:39 GMT -5
I like the direction of this too.
Still, it seems a bit to me like the inmates are in charge of the asylum so to speak. It is at least ironic that the overseers who did all the wrong things in this regard,( ie coverups, worker shufflings, scourging whistle blowers, etc,) are the ones who are writing the elders with instructions on how to hand these violations.
Are the overseers really qualified to instruct the elders on this subject?
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Post by sharonw on Jun 9, 2010 7:14:44 GMT -5
I like the direction of this too. Still, it seems a bit to me like the inmates are in charge of the asylum so to speak. It is at least ironic that the overseers who did all the wrong things in this regard,( ie coverups, worker shufflings, scourging whistle blowers, etc,) are the ones who are writing the elders with instructions on how to hand these violations. Are the overseers really qualified to instruct the elders on this subject? Even IF the overseers have educated themselves, are the people who have lost confidence in their overseers going to be able to rise above that and take the overseers word now that they are trying to make people they're effecting a turnabout? I'm glad that some of us voting with our feet has begun to wake some people up, but by-in-large, there's a long, long, long way yet for those left in the fellowship to go particularly as a group! Some people are still insisting on keeping their heads in the sand...I know some of them very closely and they are very much elders and/or close to elders!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2010 8:05:52 GMT -5
I like the direction of this too. Still, it seems a bit to me like the inmates are in charge of the asylum so to speak. It is at least ironic that the overseers who did all the wrong things in this regard,( ie coverups, worker shufflings, scourging whistle blowers, etc,) are the ones who are writing the elders with instructions on how to hand these violations. Are the overseers really qualified to instruct the elders on this subject? Even IF the overseers have educated themselves, are the people who have lost confidence in their overseers going to be able to rise above that and take the overseers word now that they are trying to make people they're effecting a turnabout? I'm glad that some of us voting with our feet has begun to wake some people up, but by-in-large, there's a long, long, long way yet for those left in the fellowship to go particularly as a group! Some people are still insisting on keeping their heads in the sand...I know some of them very closely and they are very much elders and/or close to elders! Within the fellowship, the workers still command considerable credibility.....not so much because of what they have done but because of the place/office they are viewed to occupy. Many folks continue to assume that since the workers are God's Only True Servants, anything they do will be ok with them. It remains to be seen if these elder letters are soundly written. Workers can learn and change, and pass that knowledge on to others. Hopefully that is what is going on right now. Another thing that remains to be seen is whether or not this letter is a beginning of an ongoing effort to protect children, or whether it is simply the workers washing their hands of the issue, passing the buck to elders and actually closing the door on active protection of kids.
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Post by Scott Ross on Jun 9, 2010 8:53:59 GMT -5
Within the fellowship, the workers still command considerable credibility.....not so much because of what they have done but because of the place/office they are viewed to occupy. Many folks continue to assume that since the workers are God's Only True Servants, anything they do will be ok with them.But at what point in the generation of people is this true? Reading on facebook, and reading here and knowing the ages of the posters I see that the younger generation(s) are moving away from that belief. With the internet and all the info that is available the younger generation is seeing the workers as simply preachers who have all the warts and wrinkles that everyone else does. As many of the educated (and therefore more financially stable) people leave the fellowship, the workers are going to see fewer homes to stay in, fewer children brought up in the truth fellowship, and also more people that will be influencing relatives that are still in. I have seen this happening in the last few years where parents quit going to meetings (in their 50's) and not long afterward their children also quit going. Many of those leaving aren't leaving because they feel that the truth fellowship is wrong, they are leaving because the overseers have refused to deal with issues in their fields and therefore have lost the trust and respect that can only be had by doing their jobs. Some of this is expressed in this letter: wingsfortruth.info/dear%20mom%20and%20dad.pdfIt remains to be seen if these elder letters are soundly written. Workers can learn and change, and pass that knowledge on to others. Hopefully that is what is going on right now.Well.... I am pretty sure that we will all get the chance to read the letters. We have plenty of elders here on the TMB, and I communicate with others 'off board'. Someone will be sure to share what is written. If the letter in any way is telling the elders NOT to follow the law of the state they live in, I am sure that the Social Services of that state would be very interested to read a letter sent by the leader of a church encouraging their elders to break the law in any manner. However, I can't imagine that being the case, and of course what happens in the church will fall back on the shoulders of the overseers when they become aware of issues that come up. They are a mandated reporter, and to not report means deliberately and willfully breaking the law. Another thing that remains to be seen is whether or not this letter is a beginning of an ongoing effort to protect children, or whether it is simply the workers washing their hands of the issue, passing the buck to elders and actually closing the door on active protection of kids. Actually, it will put the burden right on the shoulders of the overseers. If the letter instructs the elders to follow the law and report any abuse to the authorities, then the overseer will have to be involved by cooperating with the authorities in any investigation. That's a good thing I believe, especially if the abuse involves a worker. Scott
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Post by Scott Ross on Jun 9, 2010 9:00:18 GMT -5
Another thing to go along with this. The 'sensitivity training' that the overseers recently went through very strongly pointed out that they need to take these issues seriously. The fact that the overseers as a group are attending training classes is encouraging. The fact that Barry Barkley was willing to set up an arbitration hearing with an outside source to try and correct an issue with one of the overseers is very encouraging also. I know that some of the overseers are very serious about dealing with these issues as they come up and trying to get back the trust and respect that they need from the members of the truth fellowship. Many of those members are now demanding that their church leaders take responsibility for their actions and the actions of workers in their fields. They are writing letters, sending emails and making phone calls. When the leaders fail to take issues seriously, that is when you see people voting with their feet...... Scott
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Post by What Hat on Jun 9, 2010 9:34:10 GMT -5
I like the direction of this too. Still, it seems a bit to me like the inmates are in charge of the asylum so to speak. It is at least ironic that the overseers who did all the wrong things in this regard,( ie coverups, worker shufflings, scourging whistle blowers, etc,) are the ones who are writing the elders with instructions on how to hand these violations. Are the overseers really qualified to instruct the elders on this subject? Depends entirely on what the letter says.
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Post by sharonw on Jun 9, 2010 14:08:03 GMT -5
I like the direction of this too. Still, it seems a bit to me like the inmates are in charge of the asylum so to speak. It is at least ironic that the overseers who did all the wrong things in this regard,( ie coverups, worker shufflings, scourging whistle blowers, etc,) are the ones who are writing the elders with instructions on how to hand these violations. Are the overseers really qualified to instruct the elders on this subject? Depends entirely on what the letter says. What qualifications does it take to tell the elders "Hey, when you witness or hear of abuse, take it directly to the authorities and IF it involves a worker(s) please advise me of the issue so I can cooperate with the investigating authorities. We will NO longer be secreting any abusers around and hiding their abusive actions. All must face the legal actions as need be for any individual case."
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Post by Scott Ross on Jun 9, 2010 15:29:16 GMT -5
Depends entirely on what the letter says. What qualifications does it take to tell the elders "Hey, when you witness or hear of abuse, take it directly to the authorities and IF it involves a worker(s) please advise me of the issue so I can cooperate with the investigating authorities. We will NO longer be secreting any abusers around and hiding their abusive actions. All must face the legal actions as need be for any individual case." Well..... At least one person has heard that there will be meetings with elders rather than a letter, and that the elders are going to be instructed to report abuse issues to the overseer, and then the workers will form a committee to go to the offender to try to get him to straighten up or he will be reported to the authorities. If that is the case, it will be interesting to find out that the overseers are actually instructing the elders to break the law. If true, I sure hope that the elders have more respect for the law and the bible than the overseers do (if in fact that is what happens) I sure hope that the overseers are the ones that get reported to the authorities if this in fact is true...... Scott
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Post by emy on Jun 9, 2010 16:42:32 GMT -5
Well..... At least one person has heard that there will be meetings with elders rather than a letter, and that the elders are going to be instructed to report abuse issues to the overseer, and then the workers will form a committee to go to the offender to try to get him to straighten up or he will be reported to the authorities. If that is the case, it will be interesting to find out that the overseers are actually instructing the elders to break the law. If true, I sure hope that the elders have more respect for the law and the bible than the overseers do (if in fact that is what happens) I sure hope that the overseers are the ones that get reported to the authorities if this in fact is true...... Scott Is an elder of the fellowship a mandated reporter? I'm thinking if an elder observes abuse or is made aware of it, the proper route wold be to tell the victim or representative to contact authorities directly. Personally, the only time I see need to contact the overseer would be if it involves a worker - and maybe not then. What states' overseers are involved in this agreement?
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Post by sharonw on Jun 9, 2010 17:35:38 GMT -5
What qualifications does it take to tell the elders "Hey, when you witness or hear of abuse, take it directly to the authorities and IF it involves a worker(s) please advise me of the issue so I can cooperate with the investigating authorities. We will NO longer be secreting any abusers around and hiding their abusive actions. All must face the legal actions as need be for any individual case." Well..... At least one person has heard that there will be meetings with elders rather than a letter, and that the elders are going to be instructed to report abuse issues to the overseer, and then the workers will form a committee to go to the offender to try to get him to straighten up or he will be reported to the authorities. If that is the case, it will be interesting to find out that the overseers are actually instructing the elders to break the law. If true, I sure hope that the elders have more respect for the law and the bible than the overseers do (if in fact that is what happens) I sure hope that the overseers are the ones that get reported to the authorities if this in fact is true...... Scott Sounds like more of the same ole', same ole! More people will have to vote with their feet and I believe they will as soon as this fact becomes known. It really looks like to me that IF this above is true, then the workers are HOPING that lesser and lesser people are in the fellowship! Perhaps all the funds and wills stuck aside is all they think they'll need until there is NO MORE fellowship and they all retire happy in the sun? ??
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