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Post by Scott Ross on Apr 29, 2010 11:35:45 GMT -5
Is anyone else aware that Peter (ex-MI Worker) has pled guilty in a Big Rapids, MI, circuit court to a crime of 4th degree CSC, recently, and his sentencing will be on June 7? The crime(s) he pled to were committed when he was in the Work in western Michigan. Yes, quite a few people have been aware of this. There hasn't been anything official that could be linked to yet in the newspaper there so it hasn't been posted. He entered a guilty plea to 4th degree, and had a charge of 2nd degree dropped. This is the same charges and plea agreement reached by Darren Briggs recently. He recently waived his right to a hearing as this plea agreement was being worked on. Scott
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shiloh
Senior Member
Posts: 723
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Post by shiloh on Apr 29, 2010 15:42:41 GMT -5
One year at special meeting, he spoke about how God's people were the same as where he was laboring. Seems like this problem keeps occuring in Michigan. Too bad.
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Post by rational on Apr 29, 2010 19:34:57 GMT -5
Is anyone else aware that Peter (ex-MI Worker) has pled guilty in a Big Rapids, MI, circuit court to a crime of 4th degree CSC, recently, and his sentencing will be on June 7? The crime(s) he pled to were committed when he was in the Work in western Michigan. Just so everyone will know what the charge is: 750.520e Criminal sexual conduct in the fourth degree; misdemeanor. Sec. 520e. (1) A person is guilty of criminal sexual conduct in the fourth degree if he or she engages in sexual contact with another person and if any of the following circumstances exist: (a) That other person is at least 13 years of age but less than 16 years of age, and the actor is 5 or more years older than that other person. (b) Force or coercion is used to accomplish the sexual contact. Force or coercion includes, but is not limited to, any of the following circumstances: (i) When the actor overcomes the victim through the actual application of physical force or physical violence. (ii) When the actor coerces the victim to submit by threatening to use force or violence on the victim, and the victim believes that the actor has the present ability to execute that threat. (iii) When the actor coerces the victim to submit by threatening to retaliate in the future against the victim, or any other person, and the victim believes that the actor has the ability to execute that threat. As used in this subparagraph, "to retaliate" includes threats of physical punishment, kidnapping, or extortion. (iv) When the actor engages in the medical treatment or examination of the victim in a manner or for purposes which are medically recognized as unethical or unacceptable. (v) When the actor achieves the sexual contact through concealment or by the element of surprise. (c) The actor knows or has reason to know that the victim is mentally incapable, mentally incapacitated, or physically helpless. (d) That other person is related to the actor by blood or affinity to the third degree and the sexual contact occurs under circumstances not otherwise prohibited by this chapter. It is an affirmative defense to a prosecution under this subdivision that the other person was in a position of authority over the defendant and used this authority to coerce the defendant to violate this subdivision. The defendant has the burden of proving this defense by a preponderance of the evidence. This subdivision does not apply if both persons are lawfully married to each other at the time of the alleged violation. (e) The actor is a mental health professional and the sexual contact occurs during or within 2 years after the period in which the victim is his or her client or patient and not his or her spouse. The consent of the victim is not a defense to a prosecution under this subdivision. A prosecution under this subsection shall not be used as evidence that the victim is mentally incompetent. (f) That other person is at least 16 years of age but less than 18 years of age and a student at a public school or nonpublic school, and either of the following applies: (i) The actor is a teacher, substitute teacher, or administrator of that public school, nonpublic school, school district, or intermediate school district. This subparagraph does not apply if the other person is emancipated or if both persons are lawfully married to each other at the time of the alleged violation. (ii) The actor is an employee or a contractual service provider of the public school, nonpublic school, school district, or intermediate school district in which that other person is enrolled, or is a volunteer who is not a student in any public school or nonpublic school, or is an employee of this state or of a local unit of government of this state or of the United States assigned to provide any service to that public school, nonpublic school, school district, or intermediate school district, and the actor uses his or her employee, contractual, or volunteer status to gain access to, or to establish a relationship with, that other person. (g) That other person is at least 16 years old but less than 26 years of age and is receiving special education services, and either of the following applies: (i) The actor is a teacher, substitute teacher, administrator, employee, or contractual service provider of the public school, nonpublic school, school district, or intermediate school district from which that other person receives the special education services. This subparagraph does not apply if both persons are lawfully married to each other at the time of the alleged violation. (ii) The actor is a volunteer who is not a student in any public school or nonpublic school, or is an employee of this state or of a local unit of government of this state or of the United States assigned to provide any service to that public school, nonpublic school, school district, or intermediate school district, and the actor uses his or her employee, contractual, or volunteer status to gain access to, or to establish a relationship with, that other person. (2) Criminal sexual conduct in the fourth degree is a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 2 years or a fine of not more than $500.00, or both.
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Post by sharonw on Apr 29, 2010 20:00:00 GMT -5
Is anyone else aware that Peter (ex-MI Worker) has pled guilty in a Big Rapids, MI, circuit court to a crime of 4th degree CSC, recently, and his sentencing will be on June 7? The crime(s) he pled to were committed when he was in the Work in western Michigan. Yes, quite a few people have been aware of this. There hasn't been anything official that could be linked to yet in the newspaper there so it hasn't been posted. He entered a guilty plea to 4th degree, and had a charge of 2nd degree dropped. This is the same charges and plea agreement reached by Darren Briggs recently. He recently waived his right to a hearing as this plea agreement was being worked on. Scott If there are multiple accounts even of 4th degree, does a person still plead guilty 4th degree to all accounts and does he/she get sentenced consecutively for all accounts...say as 2 yrs. for each count of 4th degree sexual assault and there were 4 counts would that net him/her 8 yrs. to run consecutively?
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Post by rational on Apr 29, 2010 20:17:30 GMT -5
Rational, just to note that Peter had pleaded down to the 4th degree CSC, a lessor charge, as he had been initially charged with a 2nd degree CSC crime as Scott has noted. Charged but not convicted. The state may have doubted it could prove its case so was open to the plea bargain.
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Post by sharonw on Apr 29, 2010 20:28:11 GMT -5
If there are multiple accounts even of 4th degree, does a person still plead guilty 4th degree to all accounts and does he/she get sentenced consecutively for all accounts...say as 2 yrs. for each count of 4th degree sexual assault and there were 4 counts would that net him/her 8 yrs. to run consecutively? I suspect that Peter pleaded down considering the greater consequences of a 2nd degree conviction, which means going to prison not jail and the tagging as a felon, but the state was willing for it to eliminate court and trial costs based on the evidence and severity of his crime(s). The 4th degree is a misdemeanor charge like dealt out in shoplifting, disorderly conduct, ..., which is kinda like a slap-on-the-wrist in comparisons to a 1st or 2nd degree convictions (felonies). If there were multiple counts the state may have consolidated them into one in the plea deal or it's not unusual to charge an individual with multiple violations under the same code. The sentencing, consecutive or whatever, is at the discretion of the presiding judge. But will have to register as a sex offender regardless? For the rest of his life?
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Post by rational on Apr 29, 2010 20:49:27 GMT -5
But will have to register as a sex offender regardless? For the rest of his life? Did you see the statutes that were posted?
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Post by Scott Ross on Apr 29, 2010 20:55:37 GMT -5
I suspect that Peter pleaded down considering the greater consequences of a 2nd degree conviction, which means going to prison not jail and the tagging as a felon, but the state was willing for it to eliminate court and trial costs based on the evidence and severity of his crime(s). The 4th degree is a misdemeanor charge like dealt out in shoplifting, disorderly conduct, ..., which is kinda like a slap-on-the-wrist in comparisons to a 1st or 2nd degree convictions (felonies). If there were multiple counts the state may have consolidated them into one in the plea deal or it's not unusual to charge an individual with multiple violations under the same code. The sentencing, consecutive or whatever, is at the discretion of the presiding judge. But will have to register as a sex offender regardless? For the rest of his life? Probably the same as happened with Darren. It is 25 years. www.mipsor.state.mi.us/PSORSearchDetails.aspx?oid=20013020
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Post by rational on Apr 29, 2010 21:00:00 GMT -5
It's a misdemeanor. $500 and/or 2 years (according to the statute).
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Post by sharonw on Apr 30, 2010 14:13:42 GMT -5
Rational, just to note that Peter had pleaded down to the 4th degree CSC, a lessor charge, as he had been initially charged with a 2nd degree CSC crime as Scott has noted. Charged but not convicted. The state may have doubted it could prove its case so was open to the plea bargain. The "plea bargaining" on CSA convictions really are pushed in this area for the first time "conviction/guilty pleas....simply because the judicial system knows to put a CSA convict in prison with other prisoners they are not apt to exit even though their sentences run so much less then other felonies....so the lesser charge is sought even through public defenders on first time allegation/convictions/guilty pleas! That said IF there are multiple victims and a person gets off with a 4th degree charge and miminal sentencing...IS that satisfactory to those victims? I have to wonder because if the sentencing happens while the victims are still minors it just doesn't seem to me that there'd been much closure through that...but I suppose a lesser degree is better then nothing!
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Post by What Hat on Apr 30, 2010 21:57:43 GMT -5
Is there some kind of statement around as to what he did? Also Darren Briggs.
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Post by jhjmr on May 1, 2010 10:22:32 GMT -5
Peter Mousseau had CSC with girls. How many is not known, but he went into court on only one charge with one girl. If what is said is true, the others were convinced not to come forward for the hearings and charges. This is Michigan. Then he was sent to Wisc. because of his bad actions, and he also has CSC in Wisc. and then the two overseers from Mi. and Wisc. sent him home. It has taken a long time for this to finally come to the court, as usual, because the broom swept these actions a long ways under the carpet, but eventually, someone had the decency to bring this to judgment. Darren Briggs was found guilty of CSC with a young boy in Mi. Both men were able to plea bargain and have their charges brought from second degree to fourth degree. They have a good attorney. He is also the attorney that represented the older Mi. worker, that was expelled from the facts that came out during the Mi. fiasco. Has anyone invited that attorney to a mission to hear of the truth?? His answer I'm sure would be priceless!! Same ole, same ole in Michigan. And will remain the same ole as long as the system that is being used continues. Hide the crime and be deceitful while preaching the gospel to save others in that system. A big boot sure is intimidating to all of those followers that know right from wrong, but must keep their mouth shut. Yep, right out of that verse in the bible ??, humm, can't seem to find it at the moment.
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Post by Brother Schrock on May 1, 2010 11:25:47 GMT -5
JHJMR,
There are/were clearly issues in Michigan. Yet I think we can consider it a ray of light (however small) that two individuals have been brought to justice by very courageous individuals and their families, who were willing to put themselves in very uncomfortable positions in order to make it happen, and to do so regardless of any pressures they may have encountered to do otherwise.
I've been impressed with how the families and individuals went about this; without a lot of fanfare, grandstanding and pomp. Just quietly, yet persistently ensuring that civil justice was served.
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Post by sharonw on May 1, 2010 22:06:49 GMT -5
Peter Mousseau had CSC with girls. How many is not known, but he went into court on only one charge with one girl. If what is said is true, the others were convinced not to come forward for the hearings and charges. This is Michigan. Then he was sent to Wisc. because of his bad actions, and he also has CSC in Wisc. and then the two overseers from Mi. and Wisc. sent him home. It has taken a long time for this to finally come to the court, as usual, because the broom swept these actions a long ways under the carpet, but eventually, someone had the decency to bring this to judgment. Darren Briggs was found guilty of CSC with a young boy in Mi. Both men were able to plea bargain and have their charges brought from second degree to fourth degree. They have a good attorney. He is also the attorney that represented the older Mi. worker, that was expelled from the facts that came out during the Mi. fiasco. Has anyone invited that attorney to a mission to hear of the truth?? His answer I'm sure would be priceless!! Same ole, same ole in Michigan. And will remain the same ole as long as the system that is being used continues. Hide the crime and be deceitful while preaching the gospel to save others in that system. A big boot sure is intimidating to all of those followers that know right from wrong, but must keep their mouth shut. Yep, right out of that verse in the bible ??, humm, can't seem to find it at the moment. Seems like to me the judicial system might could serve notice to the overseers about the coverups and that they could net themselves some prison time or fines! Fines won't do it though...too much free money floating around, so it seems!
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Post by jhjmr on May 2, 2010 10:40:44 GMT -5
Yes, it is wonderful that families have come forward and not backward to have justice served and convict the guilty that had definitely showing no concern of their crime. Why does the overseer think a cover up is not known or seen? God sees all things. Of course, how much is God in contact with people that do cover ups? Condemnation from the people and an outrage of the actions of the cover ups, should be a very good lesson, but, that doesn't seem to happen. The overseer position only exist as long as people accept him. So, where is the decency of everyone, standing up and letting it be known that they only accept actions that are not condemned by God!! How does everyone look on and see how badly things are and the things that have been done and just ho hum? Do they not want justice done in the name of TRUTH?? Do they not want a leader of the most upstanding qualifications? So many questional actions and never a word in disgust. I guess some people just accept what ever they are told and never examine the actions by those that are doing the telling. Surprises on judgment day is a little late!!
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Post by sharonw on May 2, 2010 15:21:42 GMT -5
Yes, it is wonderful that families have come forward and not backward to have justice served and convict the guilty that had definitely showing no concern of their crime. Why does the overseer think a cover up is not known or seen? God sees all things. Of course, how much is God in contact with people that do cover ups? Condemnation from the people and an outrage of the actions of the cover ups, should be a very good lesson, but, that doesn't seem to happen. The overseer position only exist as long as people accept him. So, where is the decency of everyone, standing up and letting it be known that they only accept actions that are not condemned by God!! How does everyone look on and see how badly things are and the things that have been done and just ho hum? Do they not want justice done in the name of TRUTH?? Do they not want a leader of the most upstanding qualifications? So many questional actions and never a word in disgust. I guess some people just accept what ever they are told and never examine the actions by those that are doing the telling. Surprises on judgment day is a little late!! I had hoped and prayed that the Catholic Pope's problems with CSA in his own back door would teach a lesson to the powers that be in the friendship and at least wake the laity up! But I see little evidence of that...it seems the lesson learned is "Well, the grand Pope is getting by, so thereby we'll get by as well."
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Post by rational on May 11, 2010 15:16:16 GMT -5
Wonder if those in his Sun AM meeting are aware of his current predicament? I would think that none of the friends would invite him over for a meal, etc., if they're aware, if they have teen daughters. Does anyone know the circumstances of the charges? I know of a few cases where a date rape charge ended up with the male in a similar situation. I am not condoning date rape but know that in these cases the individual is not necessarily a danger to anyone. I don't know Peter but the problem could be a case of a young man falling in love (lust) with a 17 year old woman and getting caught. A case similar to that was reported here earlier and after talking to the individual realized that the sometimes Justice needs to peek around the blindfold. Sometimes the law goes overboard in the harsh glare of public opinion.
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Post by sharonw on May 11, 2010 18:52:49 GMT -5
Wonder if those in his Sun AM meeting are aware of his current predicament? I would think that none of the friends would invite him over for a meal, etc., if they're aware, if they have teen daughters. Does anyone know the circumstances of the charges? I know of a few cases where a date rape charge ended up with the male in a similar situation. I am not condoning date rape but know that in these cases the individual is not necessarily a danger to anyone. I don't know Peter but the problem could be a case of a young man falling in love (lust) with a 17 year old woman and getting caught. A case similar to that was reported here earlier and after talking to the individual realized that the sometimes Justice needs to peek around the blindfold. Sometimes the law goes overboard in the harsh glare of public opinion. If it's date rape and there's more then one victim, though only charged with one incident...doesn't sound like love-lust, sounds like serial rape to me!
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Post by rational on May 11, 2010 19:01:11 GMT -5
If it's date rape and there's more then one victim, though only charged with one incident...doesn't sound like love-lust, sounds like serial rape to me! I don't know if there was more than one victim. Do you? I was reacting to the statement that parents with teenage daughters would be weary of having him to dinner as if there was a chance he would pull a gun and rape the daughters. At some point the facts will be known and then you can accuse him of serial rape if that is the case.
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Post by sharonw on May 12, 2010 7:22:00 GMT -5
Peter Mousseau had CSC with girls. How many is not known, but he went into court on only one charge with one girl. If what is said is true, the others were convinced not to come forward for the hearings and charges. This is Michigan. Then he was sent to Wisc. because of his bad actions, and he also has CSC in Wisc. and then the two overseers from Mi. and Wisc. sent him home. It has taken a long time for this to finally come to the court, as usual, because the broom swept these actions a long ways under the carpet, but eventually, someone had the decency to bring this to judgment. Darren Briggs was found guilty of CSC with a young boy in Mi. Both men were able to plea bargain and have their charges brought from second degree to fourth degree. They have a good attorney. He is also the attorney that represented the older Mi. worker, that was expelled from the facts that came out during the Mi. fiasco. Has anyone invited that attorney to a mission to hear of the truth?? His answer I'm sure would be priceless!! Same ole, same ole in Michigan. And will remain the same ole as long as the system that is being used continues. Hide the crime and be deceitful while preaching the gospel to save others in that system. A big boot sure is intimidating to all of those followers that know right from wrong, but must keep their mouth shut. Yep, right out of that verse in the bible ??, humm, can't seem to find it at the moment. Rational, my only understanding is from what has been posted in the above post. Don't know the numbers, ages, ... Don't know if ..., 12, 13, ... year-olds or what, but I wouldn't suspect it was a date rape incident(s) because PM was in the Work when they occurred. JF shipped PM from Michi.-to-Wisc. I've been gone from the faith nearly 30 years and I doubt any Workers are in the dating-state unless as an ex-Worker -- but I'm willing to be corrected. Seems there were allegations of incidents in MI and Wis. both?
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Post by rational on May 12, 2010 7:49:04 GMT -5
Rational, my only understanding is from what has been posted in the above post. Don't know the numbers, ages, ... Don't know if ..., 12, 13, ... year-olds or what, but I wouldn't suspect it was a date rape incident(s) because PM was in the Work when they occurred. My point exactly. People do not know. And to speculate that it was with 12, 13 year old girls is just that, speculation. Since the original charge was 2 nd degree the victim might well have been 17. Like you, I do not know the facts of the case but I don't think it does anyone a service to speculate. Casting someone in the light of having sex with a 12 year old is very different than with a 17 year old. If it's true - it should be out in the open. If it is not - then it is just harmful gossip. When I mentioned 'date rape' I was thinking of non-forcible rape and should have used the term statutory rape instead.
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Post by Linford Bledsoe on May 12, 2010 7:53:42 GMT -5
Like you, I do not know the facts of the case but I don't think it does anyone a service to speculate. Casting someone in the light of having sex with a 12 year old is very different than with a 17 year old.
If it's true - it should be out in the open. If it is not - then it is just harmful gossip.
TMB is the expert on speculation without knowing the facts.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2010 8:23:53 GMT -5
One way to eliminate speculation is to be open and honest about the facts.
Like it or not, workers are public figures and are given authority over the friends and other workers. They do everyone a great disservice to cover up the facts.
Cover ups do more than pervert justice. They are a moral hazard. They intend to protect reputations but the fundamental dishonesty of the practice breeds a culture of dishonesty.
A little humility leading to openness and honesty about the facts would destroy TMB speculation.
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on May 12, 2010 10:12:32 GMT -5
Fact is the accusation of deliberate universal coverup is speculation. Besides that I wonder if what you are proposing is even possible in a meaningful way. Exactly how would an honest open confession of facts be accomplished? Post it here on TMB?? What would be the result, acknowledgment understanding, mercy and compassion? I don't think so, even Jesus couldn't shut down speculation with facts and openness. Reality proves over and over man loves speculation more than facts and open honest confessions - because imaginary speculating about his fellow man is in his nature. That's why there are warnings about the evil inherent in man's imaginations. Speculators should consider what good (if any) is gained by speculating about their fellow man's faults and failures. No one should enable or justify speculation by pretending speculating is not an independent stand alone problem.
Speculations do more than pervert justice. They are a moral hazard.
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Post by Scott Ross on May 12, 2010 12:25:51 GMT -5
My point exactly. People do not know. And to speculate that it was with 12, 13 year old girls is just that, speculation. Since the original charge was 2nd degree the victim might well have been 17.I 'know' what has been reported to WINGS or myself about this issue. But since what I 'know' is simply that which was reported to WINGS, then I figure that what matters are the final charges and convictions that are listed with the court. No matter what the outcome, or whatever people may speculate about, we can really only 'believe' what is finally handed down. There will be a charge listed, a conviction listed, and the penalty that is imposed by the court. If it's true - it should be out in the open. If it is not - then it is just harmful gossip.Again, what is out in the open is the letter by Jerome Frandle that was sent to several of the friends. wingsfortruth.info/jerome1.pdfNow we have both of those referred to in the letter having been charged and entering a guilty plea, with one of them convicted and sentenced, and the other one being sentenced in June. Those are the 'facts' that I think can be considered to be true to this point. Scott
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Post by Scott Ross on May 12, 2010 12:57:15 GMT -5
Fact is the accusation of deliberate universal coverup is speculation. Besides that I wonder if what you are proposing is even possible in a meaningful way. In the TMB archives are extensive references to what happened in the case of one well known overseer and how issues concerning him were covered up by several in 'positions of power'. This has been pretty well documented by people that are both 'exes' and those that are still professing. Exactly how would an honest open confession of facts be accomplished? Post it here on TMB?? What would be the result, acknowledgment understanding, mercy and compassion? Not sure what is meant by 'an open confession of facts', other than how the issues were handled by Jerome Frandle, Ray Hoffman and Lyle Schober. These 3 overseers sent a letter to those in their field letting them know that there were workers either under investigation, or who had been arrested and charged. EVEN IF an overseer has doubts about the guilt or innocence of a worker in their field in regard to CSA, they should at the very least remove that worker from all contact with kids while the matter is under investigation. This would be no different than any other organization that has someone who is "suspended with pay pending results of investigation'. It only makes sense to do so. I don't think so, even Jesus couldn't shut down speculation with facts and openness. Reality proves over and over man loves speculation more than facts and open honest confessions - because imaginary speculating about his fellow man is in his nature. If these issues are reported as they happen, then the authorities can either charge an individual with a crime, or they can clear the individual of the charges. That's why there are warnings about the evil inherent in man's imaginations. Speculators should consider what good (if any) is gained by speculating about their fellow man's faults and failures. No one should enable or justify speculation by pretending speculating is not an independent stand alone problem. Speculations do more than pervert justice. They are a moral hazard.Yep. In the case of CSA, just follow the law. Report to the authorities as required by the law, and let them do their job. No speculation needed. Just the facts ma'am.... as Joe Friday would say...... Scott
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Post by sofastarch on May 12, 2010 14:57:46 GMT -5
Get the facts, people. If you don't have facts, just zip it! I don't know Peter Mousseau and have no interest in defending him. Nor can I respect the conduct of people on here who are in the same category (or worse) as the accusers of the woman caught in the act adultery. You people didn't catch anyone in any act, you're just making up rumors based on a 4th degree CSC conviction. Shame on sharonw for saying "...it looks like serial rape to me!" Shame on gz for posting "...Don't know if ..., 12, 13, ... year-olds or what, ..." RUMORS PERPETUATING RUMORS is what people are posting here.
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Post by sharonw on May 12, 2010 17:20:59 GMT -5
Get the facts, people. If you don't have facts, just zip it! I don't know Peter Mousseau and have no interest in defending him. Nor can I respect the conduct of people on here who are in the same category (or worse) as the accusers of the woman caught in the act adultery. You people didn't catch anyone in any act, you're just making up rumors based on a 4th degree CSC conviction. Shame on sharonw for saying "...it looks like serial rape to me!" Sharon is replying I was answering to these two comments....There were more then one incident...."Peter Mousseau had CSC with girls How many is not known, but he went into court on only one charge with one girl. If what is said is true, the others were convinced not to come forward for the hearings and charges. This is Michigan. Then he was sent to Wisc. because of his bad actions, and he also has CSC in Wisc. and then the two overseers from Mi. and Wisc. sent him home. It has taken a long time for this to finally come to the court, as usual, because the broom swept these actions a long ways under the carpet, but eventually, someone had the decency to bring this to judgment. "
And The "date rape" comment....seems a bit ridiculous to call it "date rape" when there are more then one victim and also it being an active worker who is supposedly celibate!Shame on gz for posting "...Don't know if ..., 12, 13, ... year-olds or what, ..." RUMORS PERPETUATING RUMORS is what people are posting here.
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