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Post by jeremiah on Jun 22, 2008 13:47:34 GMT -5
Does anyone have a list of overseers for each state?
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Post by Lute1812 unplugged on Jun 22, 2008 15:10:54 GMT -5
Lute, I am NOT WN, and I have been reading your comments. You say you are an ex. An ex of what? You just seem a little to interested in getting some kind of information, and I can't understand why. Who are you trying to get information for? How does anyone know who you are? Are you a Luke or a Lucy? Anyone that is involved in this case knows most of the facts. If you are wondering just what WN is doing, then do you have a worry about what WN is doing? Seems very much like it. All people, no matter who they are, will be responsible for themselves and sometimes Pay backs are a B----. Duh, ex as in an outsider to the faith, the Truth, the Way, ... I'm not trying to get any INFORMATION, let’s be absolutely clear, 99.9% of these posts on the Michigan threads are BS, anyways, wake up, but read my posts. I'm trying to get answers to what others (WK) supposedly allege, profoundly accuse, scurrilously degrade...; from these same who gallantly declare themselves to be insiders or to know all. And they have supplied ZERO answers to their debasing assertions in their posts of which I have inquired about. It's called facts to back up ... The latest absurdity is that JF is responsible for Rollin Maders death. If you want to accuse, assert, defame, libel, indict, charge, denigrate, malign, … then back up your allegations with some facts, when confronted to justify such labels, traits, … That’s all. Let’s be clear, I have no interest in what WK is doing, ok, but I’d like answers to the allegations, accusations, degradations, … that he freely posts on TMB from his supposedly, know all seat. He can dish them out, but his gives no authenticity to back them up. So if its not reality, then it has to be his/her personal opinion, which I feel he/she should be able to backup under either situation. Lute1812
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Post by Duh on Jun 22, 2008 17:15:11 GMT -5
Have you come to conclusion yet that no one cares if you have the facts or not. DUH!! Maybe Lute if everyone knew why you wanted the facts, maybe they would know whether they wanted you to have them. In the meantime, yes pretend that no one is cooperating with you and it just isn't fair.
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Post by Lute1812 unplugged on Jun 22, 2008 18:47:00 GMT -5
Have you come to conclusion yet that no one cares if you have the facts or not. DUH!! Maybe Lute if everyone knew why you wanted the facts, maybe they would know whether they wanted you to have them. In the meantime, yes pretend that no one is cooperating with you and it just isn't fair. Interesting because there are other posters that have similar problems with their posts. The so-called facts behind their accusations, allegations, ... written posts, of which, there are NONE. Do I care how I look to you, 'duh'? NO. They don't have facts behind their two cents, because its their OWN slanted perceptions, to justify their seats in the mess, if that's the reality, so 'duh' strangely they don't have any FACTS to back up their assertions. But I do find it quite humorous that, so-called, followers of the faith find in necessary to come on an EXES-board to vent their concerns, seeking sympathetic ears to their unfounded allegations, accusations, ... To impart what some prior posters have written, "you give us all exes more justified positions to never return to the faith. Your testimonies speak for themselves." Lute1812
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Post by degem on Jun 22, 2008 19:10:15 GMT -5
JF is not responsible for RM death.
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Post by Lute1812 unplugged on Jun 22, 2008 19:20:01 GMT -5
JF is not responsible for RM death. And a FACT emerges from the dust. Thanks GEM. Lute1812
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White Knight
Senior Member
THE SHADOW KNOWS. In the shadow of the highest is a refuge from all fear.
Posts: 510
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Post by White Knight on Jun 22, 2008 22:12:55 GMT -5
“You posted you were proved not guilty. You deleted untruthful posts on the board, but you have the answers.”
Please show me that posting.
“and the reason why only one waiter will serve the "child abusers" in a local restaurant and the others waiters won't.”
That’s happy we had several waiters serving us, when I was there.
“So do you feel that the Lapeer County Prosecutor Byron lied to the reporter in the interview?”
This is strange there seems to have been a retraction since this early reporting.
“What about the righteous White Knight deleting debasing posts, not guilty but out in Michigan investigating, not guilty but he supposedly has his nose in the courtroom drama, daring-challenging TMB posters, posting on numerous threads confronting chasing a TMB member, but he he knows all, ... for all practical purposes he could very well be JF.”
Sorry you’re dead wrong again.
“The Way's or Truth's followers are presenting examples and testimonies that will repel all those who might have considered coming back to the faith ---- to turn and flee.”
And the cut throats of many in and out of truth! Such valued TESTIMONIES for the TRUTH, the WAY. WAY TO GO -- to those who are baptized in the faith's glorious light. Keep it up, justify why we left.
Truthers' BS
These Michigan threads are a JOKE.
The supposed charged/not guilty White Knight out investigating!
The supposed absolved White Knight -- but his big nose in courtroom events. The last place a normal, levelheaded, stable-minded person wants to be. Unless he's JF.
White Knight knows all, tells all, but modifies & deletes his TMB posts.
Who knows if the two-facer White Knight is even charged, we most certainly know he's NOSY.
Back biting between CORRECTIONS/to CORRECTIONS/Disgusting/Right.
For the professing White Knight your testimony on TMB is more than enough to keep us exes away from your faith. Keep posting, your posts speak for themselves, an upright testimony.
Just the FACTS
Looks like egg is on your face, rub the yoke off so you can see clearly. Thanks WK.
Let’s be clear, I have no interest in what WK is doing, ok, but I’d like answers to the allegations, accusations, degradations, … that he freely posts on TMB from his supposedly, know all seat. He can dish them out, but his gives no authenticity to back them up. So if its not reality, then it has to be his/her personal opinion, which I feel he/she should be able to backup under either situation.
Lute1812
Lute1812 you still can’t get it, a smart man like you. I had figured out your strategy when you were first trying to draw me out. What was trying to thwart you of me? Until I told him your strategy in you trying to stage me. Remember me telling you I don’t & will not give all my facts out because they were for court purposes. You my friend have sat your own self up perfectly. And you have the mordacity to call your self a paralegal. I’m sure in your time you may have been good, but your sure slipping now. You can’t even take the facts of others that others have said that back up my statements. And vice versa. WK
Here’s one of your favourite fraises “DU” you obviously have not read all my posts nor messages clearly. You would know if I were male or female. I think this is or should be enough to be said about your corrector. WK.
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White Knight
Senior Member
THE SHADOW KNOWS. In the shadow of the highest is a refuge from all fear.
Posts: 510
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Post by White Knight on Jun 23, 2008 6:39:13 GMT -5
Sorry, but there is no trial. Everything is going to wrapped up very soon and hopefully the kids don't have to many nightmares. We all have been telling everyone over and over, there are hearings, no charges filed, just proving that all these accusations were a fantasy of a couple of twins, that need our pity instead of our wrath. The people behind the twins need our wrath. And lets so how their hearing goes!!!!!!! The state did their job without out side influence, seen progress in everyone and is very proud of everything. The state says, it is a success story. Everyone in court heard it whether they like it or not. So all of those that wanted the worse, can lick their wounds and look out, they will be on the prowl for someone else, since that seems that is all they have in life. A bunch of back biting dirty players and if they are your friend, it doesn't mean diddy, they will turn on you like a pack of wolves. Then we will be reading about how terrible someone else is being treated. That is the name of the game called religion, the great 2 X 2. I am writing this time because of all the stuff I have read, I can just laugh it off, but when you think you can put down my parents, who have lived a faithful life and would not lie before or now, you are an indescribable person. Jerome has tried to make everything he wishes to be true, to blame anyone he can. He wants to say everyone is lying except the twin girls. My parents were professing before Jerome was even born. They have never faltered and it is endless the way they have cared for the workers over all of these years. My parents will celebrate their 69 anniversary in a few days, and the workers have come to their home ever since they were married. They are old and may get things mixed up, which even young people do, but never in your life accuse them of being liars. My parents did everything they could for those children. They loved them the same as my children and the children would tell you how good the grandparents were to them. No one would ever ask that. But Jerome told them that they would do nothing for those poor Russian children. He was absolutely cruel to my parents. It was fine to drive the car my father bought for them, eat the best and come and go as if it was the workers home. The workers were respected and honoured. Bill Denk came with Jerome to my parents and was just as rude as Jerome. The two ex sister workers even wrote a letter to the court to try and get the state to not let the children come to my parents home for visits. You people that write on this site have no idea of the garbage that has happened. Every single thing that was said is in black and white and no one can deny it. Jerome told my parents that they could say they were sorry for lying to him. Is this a confession or what. When they said they didn't lie, he was disrespectful and vindicative. He insists everything that was said by the twins is true but doesn't know why no charges have ever been charged. The parents took two lie detector test, and both came back the same, innocent. That also is in court papers. The twins always had a problem when it was time for them to take a test. But, hopefully when all is said and done, the courts will let everyone know that lying and false accusations are not accepted and everyone will answer for those charges. So, never ever accuse or state someone is a liar unless you have some die hard evidence. My parents life will not be ruined in their old age because we as a family will never let it happen. I am an Ex and I surely am glad that I am not part of this despicable charade of a religion. [/ Re: Michigan Case « Reply #111 Yesterday at 9:52pm » Yesterday at 8:31pm, to That is low wrote: Yesterday at 2:07pm, That is low wrote: I am writing this time because of all the stuff I have read, I can just laugh it off, but when you think you can put down my parents, who have lived a faithful life and would not lie before or now, you are an indescribable person. Jerome has tried to make everything he wishes to be true, to blame anyone he can. He wants to say everyone is lying except the twin girls. My parents were professing before Jerome was even born. They have never faltered and it is endless the way they have cared for the workers over all of these years. My parents will celebrate their 69 anniversary in a few days, and the workers have come to their home ever since they were married. They are old and may get things mixed up, which even young people do, but never in your life accuse them of being liars. My parents did everything they could for those children. They loved them the same as my children and the children would tell you how good the grandparents were to them. No one would ever ask that. But Jerome told them that they would do nothing for those poor Russian children. He was absolutely cruel to my parents. It was fine to drive the car my father bought for them, eat the best and come and go as if it was the workers home. The workers were respected and honored. Bill Denk came with Jerome to my parents and was just as rude as Jerome. The two ex sister workers even wrote a letter to the court to try and get the state to not let the children come to my parents home for visits. You people that write on this site have no idea of the garbage that has happened. Every single thing that was said is in black and white and no one can deny it. Jerome told my parents that they could say they were sorry for lying to him. Is this a confession or what. When they said they didn't lie, he was disrespectful and vindicative. He insists everything that was said by the twins is true but doesn't know why no charges have ever been charged. The parents took two lie detector test, and both came back the same, innocent. That also is in court papers. The twins always had a problem when it was time for them to take a test. But, hopefully when all is said and done, the courts will let everyone know that lying and false accusations are not accepted and everyone will answer for those charges. So, never ever accuse or state someone is a liar unless you have some die hard evidence. My parents life will not be ruined in their old age because we as a family will never let it happen. I am an Ex and I surely am glad that I am not part of this despicable charade of a religion. Go ahead and believe. Maybe it's you that we should feel sorry for, because just like the rest of us, you have been lied to as well. The grandparents did love those kids. I know that. Maybe they didn't know what they were allowing to happen right next door. They did know of some abuse though, but told the kids to just listen to their parents. Don't try to deny that. If you doubt it, ask them. If they say it's a lie, then I will confirm what I have maintained from the beginning. Oh yes, go ahead and ask the twins if they lied. Of course, they didn't until they are proven they did. What are you going to do when that happens as they have a lot of proving to do and everyone knows that there are not 200 men that has sexually abused those two girls. You call the grandparents liars - how dare any of you to call MY PARENTS liars! I sure didn't see any of you living with my parents at any time to make those accusations. If you can live a life as good as my parents have, for as long as they have, count yourself one of the lucky people in the world. My parents are not responsible for JF to go off the deep end for his cause, whatever that could be. You don't know and why are you pretending to. Only JF knows what he has done wrong and why. He will use any avenue possible to try to come out ahead but - it isn't going to be so great for him at the end. I don't have to pretend to be so righteous and perfect. because I am not a 2X2. Sure, I sin and I will admit to it. I don't have to hide behind a mask because I am not perfect, but either are you Maybe that is lucky for me because I don't have to tell JF where to stick it! I am not hateful and I can laugh at your postings until you put my parents down and then Yeah! my fighting armor is on. Those of you that put my parents, how did you raise your own children? I know of one that posts on here that just threw their children out because they didn't want to deal with it. Perhaps we could call that abuse. Oh Yeah, two of them now sing in a choir for another church. What kind of example was set for those children? Then comes the family that has the convention, and one of the family members has started his own religion and is the minister and not far from the convention grounds. People that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones!! I would hate to start putting in names, but that can be made possible if you want to start putting the good people down to cover up for your own shortcomings. " Have a good day" to all of you. Re: Michigan Case « Reply #103 Yesterday at 12:49am » Jun 18, 2008, 9:53am, Interesting wrote: Jun 17, 2008, 9:22pm, White Knight wrote: Hello I'm a live and well. Bin away to MI done some investigating. See it's the same o same o, some truth some misleading lots of jealousy. THERE were even lots of anger and red faces, hatred etc, etc. Twins were brought in by a bonds man. ALL 5 workers were there. The cousin that hates the family was there as well as many others. There was about 20 min’s, of closed door discussion then the court was open to the public. JUDGE made it very clear He had enough of what was going on. Told all, all parties there would be no witness and said or asked if there were any witness there to go home so there time would not be wasted. Oh as to lute1812 I for one would not want you to represent me as a paralegal or any other sorts you can bluff a lot; my postings speak for them selves. I think you best get your own house in order and get your facts straight. Ps. Would you like to PM me or do you want to keep this up in the open your choice. Investigating? I thought you were innocent. Why are you still around if innocent. I suppose you were in the little gathering with the other accused this weekend. Do you all have something that you have to discuss? You weren't at the hearing so how do you know what you say is true. I believe Lute1812 is what you call being transparent. You wouldn't understand this approach, because as your title says, "The Shadow Knows." Secrets are dangerous...God knows all secrets. Interesting, you must be one of those that love hurting older people. The Elder is ninety-one the Lady of the house is 87 enduring the offal pressure use are putting on them. I seen the pain and agony and felt it. I suppose this is CHRIST like to all of you who oppose us, for telling the truth. Egg is really on the faces that are against us. Were, is the compassion? Were, is the care? Were, is the charity? Were, is the mercy? Why are you so desperate to have me out of the seen? Re: Michigan Case « Reply #103 Yesterday at 12:49am » Jun 18, 2008, 9:53am, Interesting wrote: Jun 17, 2008, 9:22pm, White Knight wrote: Hello I'm a live and well. Bin away to MI done some investigating. See it's the same o same o, some truth some misleading lots of jealousy. THERE were even lots of anger and red faces, hatred etc, etc. Twins were brought in by a bonds man. ALL 5 workers were there. The cousin that hates the family was there as well as many others. There was about 20 min’s, of closed door discussion then the court was open to the public. JUDGE made it very clear He had enough of what was going on. Told all, all parties there would be no witness and said or asked if there were any witness there to go home so there time would not be wasted. Oh as to lute1812 I for one would not want you to represent me as a paralegal or any other sorts you can bluff a lot; my postings speak for them selves. I think you best get your own house in order and get your facts straight. Ps. Would you like to PM me or do you want to keep this up in the open your choice. Investigating? I thought you were innocent. Why are you still around if innocent. I suppose you were in the little gathering with the other accused this weekend. Do you all have something that you have to discuss? You weren't at the hearing so how do you know what you say is true. I believe Lute1812 is what you call being transparent. You wouldn't understand this approach, because as your title says, "The Shadow Knows." Secrets are dangerous...God knows all secrets. Interesting, you must be one of those that love hurting older people. The Elder is ninety-one the Lady of the house is 87 enduring the offal pressure use are putting on them. I seen the pain and agony and felt it. I suppose this is CHRIST like to all of you who oppose us, for telling the truth. Egg is really on the faces that are against us. Were, is the compassion? Were, is the care? Were, is the charity? Were, is the mercy? Why are you so desperate to have me out of the seen?
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Post by Pink on Jun 23, 2008 6:52:45 GMT -5
I really can hardly make heads or tails out of this mess. Especially what white knight posts. Whose side is he on? What dog does he have in this fight.
In my opinion, Jerome Frandle is a very rude and uncompassionate worker. I have seen his actions. In times past and very recently. Not pretty. (Nothing to do with MI)
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Post by to White Knight on Jun 23, 2008 8:04:40 GMT -5
Sorry, but there is no trial. Everything is going to wrapped up very soon and hopefully the kids don't have to many nightmares. We all have been telling everyone over and over, there are hearings, no charges filed, just proving that all these accusations were a fantasy of a couple of twins, that need our pity instead of our wrath. The people behind the twins need our wrath. And lets so how their hearing goes!!!!!!! The state did their job without out side influence, seen progress in everyone and is very proud of everything. The state says, it is a success story. Everyone in court heard it whether they like it or not. So all of those that wanted the worse, can lick their wounds and look out, they will be on the prowl for someone else, since that seems that is all they have in life. A bunch of back biting dirty players and if they are your friend, it doesn't mean diddy, they will turn on you like a pack of wolves. Then we will be reading about how terrible someone else is being treated. That is the name of the game called religion, the great 2 X 2. I am writing this time because of all the stuff I have read, I can just laugh it off, but when you think you can put down my parents, who have lived a faithful life and would not lie before or now, you are an indescribable person. Jerome has tried to make everything he wishes to be true, to blame anyone he can. He wants to say everyone is lying except the twin girls. My parents were professing before Jerome was even born. They have never faltered and it is endless the way they have cared for the workers over all of these years. My parents will celebrate their 69 anniversary in a few days, and the workers have come to their home ever since they were married. They are old and may get things mixed up, which even young people do, but never in your life accuse them of being liars. My parents did everything they could for those children. They loved them the same as my children and the children would tell you how good the grandparents were to them. No one would ever ask that. But Jerome told them that they would do nothing for those poor Russian children. He was absolutely cruel to my parents. It was fine to drive the car my father bought for them, eat the best and come and go as if it was the workers home. The workers were respected and honoured. Bill Denk came with Jerome to my parents and was just as rude as Jerome. The two ex sister workers even wrote a letter to the court to try and get the state to not let the children come to my parents home for visits. You people that write on this site have no idea of the garbage that has happened. Every single thing that was said is in black and white and no one can deny it. Jerome told my parents that they could say they were sorry for lying to him. Is this a confession or what. When they said they didn't lie, he was disrespectful and vindicative. He insists everything that was said by the twins is true but doesn't know why no charges have ever been charged. The parents took two lie detector test, and both came back the same, innocent. That also is in court papers. The twins always had a problem when it was time for them to take a test. But, hopefully when all is said and done, the courts will let everyone know that lying and false accusations are not accepted and everyone will answer for those charges. So, never ever accuse or state someone is a liar unless you have some die hard evidence. My parents life will not be ruined in their old age because we as a family will never let it happen. I am an Ex and I surely am glad that I am not part of this despicable charade of a religion. [/ Re: Michigan Case « Reply #111 Yesterday at 9:52pm » Yesterday at 8:31pm, to That is low wrote: Yesterday at 2:07pm, That is low wrote: I am writing this time because of all the stuff I have read, I can just laugh it off, but when you think you can put down my parents, who have lived a faithful life and would not lie before or now, you are an indescribable person. Jerome has tried to make everything he wishes to be true, to blame anyone he can. He wants to say everyone is lying except the twin girls. My parents were professing before Jerome was even born. They have never faltered and it is endless the way they have cared for the workers over all of these years. My parents will celebrate their 69 anniversary in a few days, and the workers have come to their home ever since they were married. They are old and may get things mixed up, which even young people do, but never in your life accuse them of being liars. My parents did everything they could for those children. They loved them the same as my children and the children would tell you how good the grandparents were to them. No one would ever ask that. But Jerome told them that they would do nothing for those poor Russian children. He was absolutely cruel to my parents. It was fine to drive the car my father bought for them, eat the best and come and go as if it was the workers home. The workers were respected and honored. Bill Denk came with Jerome to my parents and was just as rude as Jerome. The two ex sister workers even wrote a letter to the court to try and get the state to not let the children come to my parents home for visits. You people that write on this site have no idea of the garbage that has happened. Every single thing that was said is in black and white and no one can deny it. Jerome told my parents that they could say they were sorry for lying to him. Is this a confession or what. When they said they didn't lie, he was disrespectful and vindicative. He insists everything that was said by the twins is true but doesn't know why no charges have ever been charged. The parents took two lie detector test, and both came back the same, innocent. That also is in court papers. The twins always had a problem when it was time for them to take a test. But, hopefully when all is said and done, the courts will let everyone know that lying and false accusations are not accepted and everyone will answer for those charges. So, never ever accuse or state someone is a liar unless you have some die hard evidence. My parents life will not be ruined in their old age because we as a family will never let it happen. I am an Ex and I surely am glad that I am not part of this despicable charade of a religion. Go ahead and believe. Maybe it's you that we should feel sorry for, because just like the rest of us, you have been lied to as well. The grandparents did love those kids. I know that. Maybe they didn't know what they were allowing to happen right next door. They did know of some abuse though, but told the kids to just listen to their parents. Don't try to deny that. If you doubt it, ask them. If they say it's a lie, then I will confirm what I have maintained from the beginning. Oh yes, go ahead and ask the twins if they lied. Of course, they didn't until they are proven they did. What are you going to do when that happens as they have a lot of proving to do and everyone knows that there are not 200 men that has sexually abused those two girls. You call the grandparents liars - how dare any of you to call MY PARENTS liars! I sure didn't see any of you living with my parents at any time to make those accusations. If you can live a life as good as my parents have, for as long as they have, count yourself one of the lucky people in the world. My parents are not responsible for JF to go off the deep end for his cause, whatever that could be. You don't know and why are you pretending to. Only JF knows what he has done wrong and why. He will use any avenue possible to try to come out ahead but - it isn't going to be so great for him at the end. I don't have to pretend to be so righteous and perfect. because I am not a 2X2. Sure, I sin and I will admit to it. I don't have to hide behind a mask because I am not perfect, but either are you Maybe that is lucky for me because I don't have to tell JF where to stick it! I am not hateful and I can laugh at your postings until you put my parents down and then Yeah! my fighting armor is on. Those of you that put my parents, how did you raise your own children? I know of one that posts on here that just threw their children out because they didn't want to deal with it. Perhaps we could call that abuse. Oh Yeah, two of them now sing in a choir for another church. What kind of example was set for those children? Then comes the family that has the convention, and one of the family members has started his own religion and is the minister and not far from the convention grounds. People that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones!! I would hate to start putting in names, but that can be made possible if you want to start putting the good people down to cover up for your own shortcomings. " Have a good day" to all of you. Re: Michigan Case « Reply #103 Yesterday at 12:49am » Jun 18, 2008, 9:53am, Interesting wrote: Jun 17, 2008, 9:22pm, White Knight wrote: Hello I'm a live and well. Bin away to MI done some investigating. See it's the same o same o, some truth some misleading lots of jealousy. THERE were even lots of anger and red faces, hatred etc, etc. Twins were brought in by a bonds man. ALL 5 workers were there. The cousin that hates the family was there as well as many others. There was about 20 min’s, of closed door discussion then the court was open to the public. JUDGE made it very clear He had enough of what was going on. Told all, all parties there would be no witness and said or asked if there were any witness there to go home so there time would not be wasted. Oh as to lute1812 I for one would not want you to represent me as a paralegal or any other sorts you can bluff a lot; my postings speak for them selves. I think you best get your own house in order and get your facts straight. Ps. Would you like to PM me or do you want to keep this up in the open your choice. Investigating? I thought you were innocent. Why are you still around if innocent. I suppose you were in the little gathering with the other accused this weekend. Do you all have something that you have to discuss? You weren't at the hearing so how do you know what you say is true. I believe Lute1812 is what you call being transparent. You wouldn't understand this approach, because as your title says, "The Shadow Knows." Secrets are dangerous...God knows all secrets. Interesting, you must be one of those that love hurting older people. The Elder is ninety-one the Lady of the house is 87 enduring the offal pressure use are putting on them. I seen the pain and agony and felt it. I suppose this is CHRIST like to all of you who oppose us, for telling the truth. Egg is really on the faces that are against us. Were, is the compassion? Were, is the care? Were, is the charity? Were, is the mercy? Why are you so desperate to have me out of the seen? Re: Michigan Case « Reply #103 Yesterday at 12:49am » Jun 18, 2008, 9:53am, Interesting wrote: Jun 17, 2008, 9:22pm, White Knight wrote: Hello I'm a live and well. Bin away to MI done some investigating. See it's the same o same o, some truth some misleading lots of jealousy. THERE were even lots of anger and red faces, hatred etc, etc. Twins were brought in by a bonds man. ALL 5 workers were there. The cousin that hates the family was there as well as many others. There was about 20 min’s, of closed door discussion then the court was open to the public. JUDGE made it very clear He had enough of what was going on. Told all, all parties there would be no witness and said or asked if there were any witness there to go home so there time would not be wasted. Oh as to lute1812 I for one would not want you to represent me as a paralegal or any other sorts you can bluff a lot; my postings speak for them selves. I think you best get your own house in order and get your facts straight. Ps. Would you like to PM me or do you want to keep this up in the open your choice. Investigating? I thought you were innocent. Why are you still around if innocent. I suppose you were in the little gathering with the other accused this weekend. Do you all have something that you have to discuss? You weren't at the hearing so how do you know what you say is true. I believe Lute1812 is what you call being transparent. You wouldn't understand this approach, because as your title says, "The Shadow Knows." Secrets are dangerous...God knows all secrets. Interesting, you must be one of those that love hurting older people. The Elder is ninety-one the Lady of the house is 87 enduring the offal pressure use are putting on them. I seen the pain and agony and felt it. I suppose this is CHRIST like to all of you who oppose us, for telling the truth. Egg is really on the faces that are against us. Were, is the compassion? Were, is the care? Were, is the charity? Were, is the mercy? Why are you so desperate to have me out of the seen? I hope you don't think all of that just gained you a bunch of credibility. You only think the court case about the younger kids is over because of what the parents and others in that gathering told you. I know for a fact you weren't there. I'm not going to claim that these are the facts, because that doesn't seem to matter anyway. But, unlike you, G.S., I was there at the courtroom. They said THE PARENTS were a success story, but they also said they would NOT return the children at this time. The two younger children are mentally unstable. The two older boys seem to be fine, but the state said they took them out as a unit and will put them in as a unit IF they decide it is ok. The final recommendation from the state HAS NOT been made and will not be made till the next court date which is August 22nd. Double check your sources. I'm not sure they're credible. How's that make you feel. Cheated?
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Post by I was there too on Jun 23, 2008 8:33:43 GMT -5
I also was in the courtroom. The children are going to the parents home and the court said they were to have unsupervised visits and then overnight stay and then home. The two youngest have mental problems, which was not caused by the parents, but are problems that need to be addressed. The two oldest boys do not have mental problems. One needs pills to help him with school work. Everyone was happy that if the two children have mental problems, they would addressed and this mess will never happen again. To bad the two oldest didn't get help many years ago. But no one knew that this is the way things would turn out. There is a process that the court goes through in returning children. They have to be corrected by the parents and the children have to learn that they will be corrected. That was also said in the hearing. They said the family was taken as a unit, and they would keep it that way because they didn't want the two younger children to be upset because two went home and they couldn't because they said all four children are begging to go home. The court said the parents would find a Dr. for the two youngest children and court would keep track of the progress. That is very good.They said the youngest acts up because he is the baby and is spoiled some, and he has to know that he is not always going just get his way. The children have lied to many because they were prodded day in and day out from so many people and they have actually said that they lied. The oldest ones said that they were not going to listen to people telling them things anymore. They just want to go home. Children are smart and they know when someone is trying to set them up against their own family. Why would anyone try to do that?The courts knew who was interfering and kept making changes until they did find success. Now that is the type of ending most normal people would want. But, boy are there abnormal people around with their own opinion. Thank goodness they can rot in their own mire. By the way, everything is in court papers, not fabricated!
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Well It is About Time
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Post by Well It is About Time on Jun 23, 2008 8:44:49 GMT -5
Now everybody can get back to the normal. Yes beat them to God so that they will not cut up in meetings and such.
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Post by What on Jun 23, 2008 8:46:50 GMT -5
What is the Court Case Number?
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Post by show us on Jun 23, 2008 9:02:21 GMT -5
By the way, everything is in court papers, not fabricated!
It would sure help if you posted what is in the court papers. You must have them in your posession to make this claim, so if you would scan them and post them, it'll take care of all the issues regarding truthfullness of your posts.
Feel free to black out the kids names before you post the court papers. This will definitely clear up some of the muddied waters here, and validate what you are saying. Without this proof your claims are suspect.
If you do not have the court papers in your posession then you must know who does. Please post them and we can then believe what you are saying.
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Post by to I was there too on Jun 23, 2008 10:35:25 GMT -5
I also was in the courtroom. The children are going to the parents home and the court said they were to have unsupervised visits and then overnight stay and then home. The two youngest have mental problems, which was not caused by the parents, but are problems that need to be addressed. The two oldest boys do not have mental problems. One needs pills to help him with school work. Everyone was happy that if the two children have mental problems, they would addressed and this mess will never happen again. To bad the two oldest didn't get help many years ago. But no one knew that this is the way things would turn out. There is a process that the court goes through in returning children. They have to be corrected by the parents and the children have to learn that they will be corrected. That was also said in the hearing. They said the family was taken as a unit, and they would keep it that way because they didn't want the two younger children to be upset because two went home and they couldn't because they said all four children are begging to go home. The court said the parents would find a Dr. for the two youngest children and court would keep track of the progress. That is very good.They said the youngest acts up because he is the baby and is spoiled some, and he has to know that he is not always going just get his way. The children have lied to many because they were prodded day in and day out from so many people and they have actually said that they lied. The oldest ones said that they were not going to listen to people telling them things anymore. They just want to go home. Children are smart and they know when someone is trying to set them up against their own family. Why would anyone try to do that?The courts knew who was interfering and kept making changes until they did find success. Now that is the type of ending most normal people would want. But, boy are there abnormal people around with their own opinion. Thank goodness they can rot in their own mire. By the way, everything is in court papers, not fabricated! If these children had problems and the parents knew about why didn't they get them help right from the beginning? When a parent knows a child has problems, don't they usually get them help? I agree with everyone else, let's see the court documents. It's time you prove some of these people wrong.
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to White Knight informer
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Post by to White Knight informer on Jun 23, 2008 10:46:00 GMT -5
I also was in the courtroom. The children are going to the parents home and the court said they were to have unsupervised visits and then overnight stay and then home. The two youngest have mental problems, which was not caused by the parents, but are problems that need to be addressed. The two oldest boys do not have mental problems. One needs pills to help him with school work. Everyone was happy that if the two children have mental problems, they would addressed and this mess will never happen again. To bad the two oldest didn't get help many years ago. But no one knew that this is the way things would turn out. There is a process that the court goes through in returning children. They have to be corrected by the parents and the children have to learn that they will be corrected. That was also said in the hearing. They said the family was taken as a unit, and they would keep it that way because they didn't want the two younger children to be upset because two went home and they couldn't because they said all four children are begging to go home. The court said the parents would find a Dr. for the two youngest children and court would keep track of the progress. That is very good.They said the youngest acts up because he is the baby and is spoiled some, and he has to know that he is not always going just get his way. The children have lied to many because they were prodded day in and day out from so many people and they have actually said that they lied. The oldest ones said that they were not going to listen to people telling them things anymore. They just want to go home. Children are smart and they know when someone is trying to set them up against their own family. Why would anyone try to do that?The courts knew who was interfering and kept making changes until they did find success. Now that is the type of ending most normal people would want. But, boy are there abnormal people around with their own opinion. Thank goodness they can rot in their own mire. By the way, everything is in court papers, not fabricated! You must be one of those who White Knight gets his info from. Either that or you're all getting your information from the same people. No final recommendation has been made. They have to work toward it, but that does not mean the children are going back. Think about all these months. The state has to work towards reunification, but at the end of one year, they make the final recommendation. The final recommendation will be made August 22nd at 1 p.m. Don't you think it's strange that the children have gone through a total of four foster homes now? And by the way, the state approved foster homes are getting the blame, not the parents. The parents are perfect. Right?
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Post by degem on Jun 23, 2008 11:01:23 GMT -5
I truly hope things work out for the best for the children. Don't get me wrong that I am not concerned for other people involved in this mess because I am. With kids I have a soft spot in my heart for them.
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Post by charlene on Jun 23, 2008 14:15:52 GMT -5
I have not counted the number of times that the fact that "these are Russian children" has been mentioned, but I know that that has been a common reference.
Also, that there are mental and emotional issues
My experience has taught me that these 2 things should have been addressed before the adoption, during the home studies, and been ongoing during their childhood and into adulthood. The misconception that love and a secure family will cure all, is just simply not true.
Perspective parents often turn to foreign adoptions because the waiting time for the "perfect American Gerber Baby" can be many years, and they are eager to become parents. Often they are not counseled to also expose their foreign children to their birth nationality, customs or traditions, native foods and native language. These children are very hungry for this information. I am not saying that this particular family did not do these things, but that it should be a warning to any of you others who could be considering foreign adoptions--like thru HOLT international.
This reply should really be on "Michigan Case" and not here, I suppose.
Charlene
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Post by That is very true on Jun 23, 2008 16:20:24 GMT -5
When you adopt from Russia, the papers say that there is a handicap, but the trouble comes with the adoption agency, who is making lots and lots of money. They tell you that the statement on the papers doesn't mean anything. Russian people will not allow their good children to be adopted, so they put this on the papers so that no one cares if they are adopted. Needless to say, the Russians were being honest and the adoption agency wasn't. That is why there has been so much trouble with these adoptions. It is hard to raise children when they don't have problems. And then you have the big issue, gossip about your children. That is a big problem in the fellowship, so you would never want anyone to know that there is a problem. So, everyone learns by others mistake. The twins should have had help, but they didn't. Being the first ones adopted, you also have to learn when you need to seek help. So, everyone is glad that the little ones will get help if needed. No one cares that they will get help. And the parents will get help in dealing with them. Both a number one solution. All will be known about everything and we'll see what happens then. The backstabbers will need new backs to stab!
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Post by Lute1812 unplugged on Jun 23, 2008 17:19:28 GMT -5
I'd address your questions, WK, but you have deleted tons of your posts:
1) When you came on TMB your cries were that you were unjustly charged in the whole affair. Gee, those posts are all gone.
2) Then you wrote that you were proven not guilty, and, now, suddenly all those posts are gone.
3) You threatened me with legal recourse on at least three instances when I confronted you about posting your scurrilous remarks about the two sister workers. One trivial post on that nature remains, but the others have been deleted. I remember one because, at that time you ranted that you had deleted that post, and you were coming after me if I zeroed in on that again.
Anyone following this thread would probably remember those positions of WK, specifically 1 & 2, but he has deleted them all. WK has deleted all those posts to cover his tracks. Check it out, go to his profile, and pull up his posts, he has whitewashed it.
I can say that I will never delete a post, because I do not have any fear of whatever. And it's not the 'whatever' who is a TMB member.
Lute1812
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To The Nonbelievers
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Post by To The Nonbelievers on Jun 23, 2008 17:54:25 GMT -5
I also was in the courtroom. The children are going to the parents home and the court said they were to have unsupervised visits and then overnight stay and then home. The two youngest have mental problems, which was not caused by the parents, but are problems that need to be addressed. The two oldest boys do not have mental problems. One needs pills to help him with school work. Everyone was happy that if the two children have mental problems, they would addressed and this mess will never happen again. To bad the two oldest didn't get help many years ago. But no one knew that this is the way things would turn out. There is a process that the court goes through in returning children. They have to be corrected by the parents and the children have to learn that they will be corrected. That was also said in the hearing. They said the family was taken as a unit, and they would keep it that way because they didn't want the two younger children to be upset because two went home and they couldn't because they said all four children are begging to go home. The court said the parents would find a Dr. for the two youngest children and court would keep track of the progress. That is very good.They said the youngest acts up because he is the baby and is spoiled some, and he has to know that he is not always going just get his way. The children have lied to many because they were prodded day in and day out from so many people and they have actually said that they lied. The oldest ones said that they were not going to listen to people telling them things anymore. They just want to go home. Children are smart and they know when someone is trying to set them up against their own family. Why would anyone try to do that?The courts knew who was interfering and kept making changes until they did find success. Now that is the type of ending most normal people would want. But, boy are there abnormal people around with their own opinion. Thank goodness they can rot in their own mire. By the way, everything is in court papers, not fabricated! If these children had problems and the parents knew about why didn't they get them help right from the beginning? When a parent knows a child has problems, don't they usually get them help? I agree with everyone else, let's see the court documents. It's time you prove some of these people wrong. If you are so interested to know what is and what isn't, well go to the court hearing for yourself and then you will know what the Judge has said. Quit your speculations on what should be and find out first hand. And, if you don't go, well I guess you just like to create some exciting gossip to keep this thread going.
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to This is very true
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Post by to This is very true on Jun 23, 2008 21:53:53 GMT -5
When you adopt from Russia, the papers say that there is a handicap, but the trouble comes with the adoption agency, who is making lots and lots of money. They tell you that the statement on the papers doesn't mean anything. Russian people will not allow their good children to be adopted, so they put this on the papers so that no one cares if they are adopted. Needless to say, the Russians were being honest and the adoption agency wasn't. That is why there has been so much trouble with these adoptions. It is hard to raise children when they don't have problems. And then you have the big issue, gossip about your children. That is a big problem in the fellowship, so you would never want anyone to know that there is a problem. So, everyone learns by others mistake. The twins should have had help, but they didn't. Being the first ones adopted, you also have to learn when you need to seek help. So, everyone is glad that the little ones will get help if needed. No one cares that they will get help. And the parents will get help in dealing with them. Both a number one solution. All will be known about everything and we'll see what happens then. The backstabbers will need new backs to stab! Ah, so now it's Russia's fault
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Post by Lute1812 unplugged on Jun 23, 2008 22:04:04 GMT -5
If these children had problems and the parents knew about why didn't they get them help right from the beginning? When a parent knows a child has problems, don't they usually get them help? I agree with everyone else, let's see the court documents. It's time you prove some of these people wrong. If you are so interested to know what is and what isn't, well go to the court hearing for yourself and then you will know what the Judge has said. Quit your speculations on what should be and find out first hand. And, if you don't go, well I guess you just like to create some exciting gossip to keep this thread going. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the courtrooms closed to the public, now? Next court-date, Aug 22, if I remember correctly from a post somewhere on TMB. Wouldn't go even if I could drive, if I recouped my dr. license. Even if it was across the street, where I could walk, there's no need for me to be there. Lute1812
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Post by Its necessary on Jun 24, 2008 10:53:55 GMT -5
You must read everything. It was stated that Russia was honest and put things down right. Not that it was Russia's fault. The adoption agency is a United States organization. They are the one that arranges everything. That is the problem. No one gets the facts straight.
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Post by very confused on Jun 24, 2008 12:21:25 GMT -5
I am confused... Is JF for or against the parents? If he is on their side why are the 2 sisters workers no longer in the work. I just need some clarification. Thanks.
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Post by to very confused on Jun 24, 2008 13:09:37 GMT -5
I am confused... Is JF for or against the parents? If he is on their side why are the 2 sisters workers no longer in the work. I just need some clarification. Thanks. Since JF is the head worker in MI, he has been the main representative to stand against the abuse. The two sister workers left to care for the twin girls who need support, help and care.
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Post by charlene on Jun 24, 2008 15:53:01 GMT -5
I am not blaming anyone concerning the adoption of these Russian children. I am just stating facts, because I have experience in this subject. I have never given my opinion on this particular "Michigan" case, as I have not lived it--therefore I am not an authority on that subject. The American or Russian agencies are simply trying to do their job in placing children in homes. Foreign adoptions cost thousands of dollars. I personally know a family that was allowed to adopt 23-yes twenty-three-foreign children. Needless to say, the entire family blew and all were eventually placed in the United States foster Care system.No one couple can supervise, nurture and instruct that size of family. Either the U.S. or the other foreign countries should have stopped this from happening--but the almighty buck can buy just about anything or anyone.
This of course is way off topic again
Charlene
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Post by answers on Jun 24, 2008 17:09:53 GMT -5
The two sister workers are not in the work anymore because they were the ones that turned in all the reports to the police with all of the false allegations. Many many many people are very upset and so they really had no choice but to leave. Jerome is in deeply for reasons every one would like to know. He says the twins don't lie. So, go figure any way you can.
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