arlis
Junior Member
Posts: 89
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Post by arlis on Sept 4, 2007 23:39:26 GMT -5
this board is so horribly infected with illogical and irrational statements like these how can a serious person justify being a part of it? Every one if these “truth boards” I’ve seen is infected with a certain amount of these whiny, outlandish, and perfidious posts, it doesn’t take rocket surgery to see it. It’s not edifying for me to be here and if you think that means thin-skinned you couldn’t be more wrong. I read Secret Sect 25 years ago and all it did was strengthen my faith. So has my every visit to “2x2” web sites. What has helped is personally knowing a lady who knew workers predating Irvine. So I know Irvine being the “founder” is wrong, not that it matters, we are not to be concerned with endless genealogies anyway. If any who want to continue the conversation it most likely will not be here. However, I’m easy to find. Thanks, Jesse Who is the lady who knew workers pre-dating Irvine? How's Darci? Arlis
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doesnt make it true
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Post by doesnt make it true on Sept 5, 2007 1:24:54 GMT -5
Do you know Grace and Lyle Burchill from N. Dakota? she can tell you some interesting story about William Irvine and the friends back in those days. Lots of people can tell interesting stories nathan.
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Post by ranman77007 on Sept 5, 2007 2:25:58 GMT -5
Do you know Grace and Lyle Burchill from N. Dakota? she can tell you some interesting story about William Irvine and the friends back in those days. Lots of people can tell interesting stories nathan. yes, and some are true.... so there hahahaha and probably more true from someone that is old, and was there... not always true, but most likely
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Post by CherieKropp on Sept 5, 2007 9:01:26 GMT -5
RE NB wrote: Do you know Grace and Lyle Burchill from N. Dakota? she can tell you some interesting story about William Irvine and the friends back in those days.
I thought you had the "stories" of Grace on your website?
In fact one of them gives an incorrect start date of 1888 for the 2x2 group. Have you changed it yet on yr website?
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Post by CherieKropp on Sept 5, 2007 9:05:02 GMT -5
To JesseL: RE: What has helped is personally knowing a lady who knew workers predating Irvine. So I know Irvine being the “founder” is wrong, not that it matters, we are not to be concerned with endless genealogies anyway.
Who is this lady and what are the names of the workers she knew?
Do you think a 100 year old history qualifies as "endless genealogies"??
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Post by CherieKropp on Sept 5, 2007 10:19:21 GMT -5
You were going to post a copy of this information also--hae you done that yet? And I believe Grace was going to get some additional information from an old lady that you planned to post also? Did that ever happen?
I proved that the date was incorrect, perhaps a mis-copy (error in handwriting instead of typo). If you were really interested in truth (intead of holding onto your belief over truth), you would put an Editors note about it on your site.
I show all the info on TTT when there is conflicting info regarding historical events--and let the reader decide. Why don't you follow your own advice?
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Post by CherieKropp on Sept 5, 2007 11:13:16 GMT -5
It's a good thing I'm not holding my breath...!
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Sept 5, 2007 20:05:56 GMT -5
PM if you want to talk as I will not be posting on the open forums.
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Post by concerned on Sept 6, 2007 0:28:36 GMT -5
This is part of the reason I stay off this board!!! This thread has gotten completely sidetracked.
Isn't that convenient?
I would like to know if anyone knows of friends that still go to meeting in Minnesota that have actually gotten this letter!!!
Can anyone answer this?
Thank you!
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Post by juliette on Sept 6, 2007 0:56:25 GMT -5
I personally know of people who have received the letter. Apparently it's been talked about in Sunday morning and Wednesday night meeting (in testimonies) and is in some cases causing some division. I think we've only begun to hear the entire story about this issue and see the full effects.
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Post by foundfreedom on Sept 6, 2007 1:09:25 GMT -5
Causing some division?!!! what?!!! Not in "the Truth" !!! I'm shocked. What is being divided, the goats from the sheep?... or the pedophile supporters from the victim supporters. Thanks Juliette and Scott for keeping us updated.
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Post by concerned on Sept 6, 2007 1:25:57 GMT -5
I got an answer of someone I personally know that did get a letter!!
Thank you juliette!!
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Post by no name on Sept 6, 2007 14:19:07 GMT -5
Apparently it's been talked about in Sunday morning and Wednesday night meeting (in testimonies) and is in some cases causing some division. How so? Are people upset that the letters of notification were sent out?
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Post by Best to not list on Sept 22, 2007 20:38:33 GMT -5
You may want to check with the Court on how he plead to the charges.
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Post by Not sure on Sept 22, 2007 20:57:49 GMT -5
How is that done?
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Post by mortified on Sept 22, 2007 22:12:35 GMT -5
He turned himself in and confessed to the charges.
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Post by duh on Sept 23, 2007 2:23:49 GMT -5
PM if you want to talk as I will not be posting on the open forums. Whatever. You don't have a name at all. There are no workers before William Irvine. Why do you lie to yourself?
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Sept 23, 2007 3:01:02 GMT -5
Causing some division?!!! what?!!! Not in "the Truth" !!! I'm shocked. What is being divided, the goats from the sheep?... or the pedophile supporters from the victim supporters. Thanks Juliette and Scott for keeping us updated. WOW. You really have a problem in some sort of way if you think there are actually pedophile supporters here. (by the way I am not one! I feel the same as anyone else about them.) But I just think you went way overboard with THAT statement. M.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2007 7:06:40 GMT -5
He turned himself in and confessed to the charges. He turned himself in after he had apparently been 'caught in the act' by parents of the children. Here is a link to the police report. www.anotherstep.net/ETC/Edgar
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Post by junia on Sept 23, 2007 8:15:06 GMT -5
That's the first time I've read the police report and it's enough to sicken anybody. I'm sure he will spend many, many years in jail.
If it had happened to my daughters, he'd be lucky if he ever walked again.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2007 8:43:33 GMT -5
That's the first time I've read the police report and it's enough to sicken anybody. I'm sure he will spend many, many years in jail. If it had happened to my daughters, he'd be lucky if he ever walked again. You and almost any normal father would do the same. That's why this case highlights that while some good has come of it, we still have a long way to go. The reluctance of the father to do anything at the time, his need to wait to talk to the overseer, his sister having to almost force him to report, indicates to me that something is very wrong. This is quite possibly an indication of idolization of the ministry which put this man into shock. That's the only explanation that I can come up with to explain his behaviour. Perhaps someone closer understands the dynamics better. Another disconcerting reaction is Lyle's intial advice to the father that he had a "right" to call the authorities. This indicates to me that Lyle's initial reaction was to be protective to his underling. His initial advice should have been that the father had a "duty" to call the authorities. I suspect that Lyle would do this differently now, but I would expect that most overseers would back off like Lyle did initially. Most overseers would offer the father little advice initially, go to the molester and get his story which would be sugarcoated, and then support the molester's story and transfer him out of the field and tell the parents they need to forgive this man, it was his one and only mistake (yeah right). Even with a good worker like Lyle, I have my doubts that anything would have come of his had the alleged molester not been allegedly caught in the alleged act. (Hopefully that is a libel-free statement and Sherriff Jesse won't report me). I wouldn't doubt that this alleged molester will get something like Mata got, 35 years.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2007 8:57:40 GMT -5
Causing some division?!!! what?!!! Not in "the Truth" !!! I'm shocked. What is being divided, the goats from the sheep?... or the pedophile supporters from the victim supporters. Thanks Juliette and Scott for keeping us updated. No, the division is not to protect predators. It is a division of pride. We have what is largely a proud and exclusive church. It is this mainstream of proud and exclusive people who always divide from those who are humble and truthful. A story like this getting out in the open is greatly opposed by those who want to falsely project an image of a perfect group, after all we are the only ones in the world who are right with God. The division is all about pride.
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Sept 23, 2007 9:05:50 GMT -5
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Post by mortified on Sept 23, 2007 10:06:11 GMT -5
A story like this getting out in the open is greatly opposed by those who want to falsely project an image of a perfect group, after all we are the only ones in the world who are right with God.
The division is all about pride.
I agree and another issue also. Most of the friends don't want to think that the workers are not "God's only true servants." If they accept this information and really start thinking on the doctrine of "God's only true servants" then they have to acknowledge that maybe this fact is not true. This in turn shakes the very foundation of every belief they have been taught since childhood. So, for some it is much easier to call it gossip and be a part of the cover up. This allows them to stay in their comfort zone and continue on their way. To admit this could happen could open the door to all kinds of very uncomfortable thoughts.
Several of the friends I have spoke with have clearly said "I do not want to hear this"--I have explained that they do need to hear it because they have children and need to be aware that this may happen in their own home. They need to be smart as parents so that an opportunity does not happen that would allow their children to suffer through a molestation. It appears that some would rather deny the situation exists--even with proof--in order to keep believing that it could never happen.
The other response I get is -"where did this happen?" As if since it did not happen in this particular area that means that it doesn't matter.
I do not understand how there could be "sides" to this situation. There is only one side. Children were abused by a worker. There is not ANY excuse for anyone aware to allow it to continue in any form. There is evidence that this has happened many times over the years and has been covered up.
God tells us once we are aware of a situation then we MUST stand up and take some responsibility.
What will the friends say as they stand in front of God and are asked why they didn't protect His children from those that meant them harm?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2007 10:57:03 GMT -5
A story like this getting out in the open is greatly opposed by those who want to falsely project an image of a perfect group, after all we are the only ones in the world who are right with God.
The division is all about pride. I agree and another issue also. Most of the friends don't want to think that the workers are not "God's only true servants." If they accept this information and really start thinking on the doctrine of "God's only true servants" then they have to acknowledge that maybe this fact is not true. This in turn shakes the very foundation of every belief they have been taught since childhood. So, for some it is much easier to call it gossip and be a part of the cover up. This allows them to stay in their comfort zone and continue on their way. To admit this could happen could open the door to all kinds of very uncomfortable thoughts. Several of the friends I have spoke with have clearly said "I do not want to hear this"--I have explained that they do need to hear it because they have children and need to be aware that this may happen in their own home. They need to be smart as parents so that an opportunity does not happen that would allow their children to suffer through a molestation. It appears that some would rather deny the situation exists--even with proof--in order to keep believing that it could never happen. The other response I get is -"where did this happen?" As if since it did not happen in this particular area that means that it doesn't matter. I do not understand how there could be "sides" to this situation. There is only one side. Children were abused by a worker. There is not ANY excuse for anyone aware to allow it to continue in any form. There is evidence that this has happened many times over the years and has been covered up. God tells us once we are aware of a situation then we MUST stand up and take some responsibility. What will the friends say as they stand in front of God and are asked why they didn't protect His children from those that meant them harm? Mort, sad but true. The additional issues you bring up are pride-based and idolatry-based issues. These are huge problems in our church. People just shut their eyes and minds when their idols and pride are called into question. You are very clear about the real issue here, the protection of children, and anyone who does not stand up for it is similarly as guilty as the alleged molester in MN.
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Post by wondering1 on Sept 23, 2007 18:23:01 GMT -5
concerned - reply 95 - At the Boyden, IA convention, there were several MN people there showing the letter around. And yes, they are continuing with meeting. Why would they stop. I just hope the workers in each state and each field have the gumption to talk to families with kids. Of course, that won't happen. In states other than MN it will be kept as quiet as possible.
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Post by mortified on Sept 23, 2007 21:51:39 GMT -5
Yes, you are exactly correct. The workers and elders in our state that have had the information for weeks have not uttered one word to anyone.
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Post by ex-teenager on Sept 24, 2007 1:13:37 GMT -5
Theres no words to describe this. Totally sickening.
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