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Post by imnx2 on Aug 31, 2011 12:09:40 GMT -5
I hope that this is not too provocative a question, but are any workers enticed into the work because they are adventurous and attracted to travel and seeing other places and cultures, etc. ? Would these things be a consideration for some who offer? Probably possible. Would just need to let the overseer know you are willing for a foreign field. Then, if opportunity is ripe and you are deemed able, off you go. Probably not a lot of variation, though, in lands and culture. Likely just to a knew area for a few or many years. And if a 'good speaker' the convention rounds are open. International routes likely reserved though for overseers and the rare other.
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Post by emy on Aug 31, 2011 13:18:38 GMT -5
.. And if a 'good speaker' the convention rounds are open. International routes likely reserved though for overseers and the rare other. Not anymore.
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Post by Alan Vandermyden on Aug 31, 2011 15:51:59 GMT -5
I hope that this is not too provocative a question, but are any workers enticed into the work because they are adventurous and attracted to travel and seeing other places and cultures, etc. ? Would these things be a consideration for some who offer? Probably possible. Would just need to let the overseer know you are willing for a foreign field. Then, if opportunity is ripe and you are deemed able, off you go. Probably not a lot of variation, though, in lands and culture. Likely just to a knew area for a few or many years. And if a 'good speaker' the convention rounds are open. International routes likely reserved though for overseers and the rare other. I didn't offer for the work particularly because I wanted to travel, but once I was in, I did kind of assume I would end up elsewhere in time. I know there was always much talk of the "sacrifice" of going to a foreign land, but it always sounded kind of boring to me to remain in the US, speaking English. But then, I'm one of those oddballs who deem language learning "fun." On the serious side though, foreign lands did expand my thinking, and the experience of working where there were no friends to rely on was good for me as well. Of course, "foreign lands" vary greatly . . . some people expressed sympathy for us in our "lonely Pacific Isles," while I felt more sorry for those in large, crowded, modern cities.
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Post by Alan Vandermyden on Aug 31, 2011 15:53:47 GMT -5
.. And if a 'good speaker' the convention rounds are open. International routes likely reserved though for overseers and the rare other. Not anymore. Emy is correct here - I see the overseers making a definite effort to move all workers around. That was beginning even in my later years in the work - in the 90s.
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Post by Alan Vandermyden on Aug 31, 2011 15:57:59 GMT -5
Harvest field. Is the field always called the harvest field? By that I mean is a field designated a harvest filed because it has harvestable yields? Is the field also a sowing field? An interesting question, and it could have lot to do with the way the work is perceived. Metaphors can hide, as well as open up, ideas. We did talk, as workers, about the need to patiently sow, water, etc., but then it also seemed to me there could be a lot of emphasis placed - in worker conversations - on how many had professed, or how much interest you had, in the "mission" that year. I always assumed the term "harvest field" came from Jesus' words about lifting eyes to see the fields "white unto harvest."
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Post by imnx2 on Aug 31, 2011 16:20:36 GMT -5
Harvest field. Is the field always called the harvest field? By that I mean is a field designated a harvest filed because it has harvestable yields? Is the field also a sowing field? An interesting question, and it could have lot to do with the way the work is perceived. Metaphors can hide, as well as open up, ideas. We did talk, as workers, about the need to patiently sow, water, etc., but then it also seemed to me there could be a lot of emphasis placed - in worker conversations - on how many had professed, or how much interest you had, in the "mission" that year. I always assumed the term "harvest field" came from Jesus' words about lifting eyes to see the fields "white unto harvest." I think that pertained to his Messiahship and the harvest was the people of Israel.
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Post by imnx2 on Aug 31, 2011 16:24:39 GMT -5
Not anymore. Emy is correct here - I see the overseers making a definite effort to move all workers around. That was beginning even in my later years in the work - in the 90s. Good.
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Post by Scott Ross on Aug 31, 2011 18:15:02 GMT -5
Luke 10
Jesus Sends Out the Seventy-Two
1 After this the Lord appointed seventy-two others and sent them two by two ahead of him to every town and place where he was about to go. 2 He told them, “The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few. Ask the Lord of the harvest, therefore, to send out workers into his harvest field. 3 Go! I am sending you out like lambs among wolves.
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Post by Linford Bledsoe on Sept 5, 2011 7:23:04 GMT -5
It also says you pray to the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers,because you see the field ready to harvest. What if there is no harvest to be seen? Supposing it's seed time?
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Post by ts on Sept 5, 2011 11:17:50 GMT -5
I'd like to pose a question regarding being "called by God" to do a certain thing. For those of you who are in, or have been in the work, what did your calling feel like? Did you actually hear a voice; did you have a vivid dream that you felt was God speaking to you; did you feel "moved" in a meeting or convention where the need of the harvest was spoken about? What was your experience? Just to clarify, I am not in the work. However, when I was 18, I was in a very serious relationship with a young professing man (I'll call him JD). We were very much in love with each other, and also very devoted to "The Truth". We became engaged to be married, and had set a date. But from the time of our engagement, JD became very agitated, and the subject of "the work" came up frequently. We talked about it very seriously, because we wanted to be sure that getting married was really what God intended for us. I felt certain that God intended for me to be married and have a family. I also felt like part of my "calling" in life was to minister to others in some capacity, though I wasn't sure (and still am not sure) what that would be. We both felt very confused and conflicted about this. We both felt that God had led us together, and now it felt like He was telling us "no"! After two months of confusion, we decided to break off our engagement, and JD offered for the work. I spent the next several months mourning and recovering from what felt like the sudden death of my fiance (he didn't actually die - he is still in the work today - but the only way I knew to completely let go of him and move on was to think of it as though he had died). During this time I prayed more earnestly than I had ever prayed in my entire life for God's love and guidance to lead me in this. After months of crying to God and pleading for signs, He showed me a glimpse of heaven: all I could see were colors - the colors of the rainbow, and it was so beautiful. I don't know how to describe the experience, other than that during this "vision" I felt peace. I didn't feel "led" or "directed" in any specific direction though. I just knew that God was with me, and loves/d me. It would get off topic here, but someday maybe I'll add to this experience and share what praying to God in complete surrender to his will has done for me. Anyways, I appreciate in advance any responses. Thanks! I know that God called me into the meetings and into the work. When I was 17 I started talking to my professing sister about meetings and went with her and her husband. The workers soon came to have gospel meetings for me. I professed at convention that year after 3 months of gospel meetings. I knew when I professed that I was renouncing all other denominations. The following year I began to be troubled about the work. I offered for the work when I was 19. I asked a sign before I offered. I was sitting in my car in a parking lot after wednesday night meeting. I was very troubled about the work. I asked God to give me a sign and specifically asked Him to send a shooting star where I was looking in the sky. At that instant one came. I was shocked and then asked for another to appear at the same place. Instantly another came in the same place. I have leaned on that answer to prayer in some hard times in the work when companions and overseers were especially abusive. The following year when I was going into the work I had a dream/vision. It is a long story. The message was that I must trust in the Lord and understand that He has gifts that He has given me and not to be looking to have others' gifts. Also in the message, the messenger pleaded for me to "help my brothers". I have also gone on the strength of that vision all these years. That sign and vision might have kept me in the work for too long, actually. God was calling me out of the work. But God's timing is perfect even if my listening isn't. I was trying to stay in the work beyond the limits of my health. I was staying where *I* thought was the best place to "help my brothers". I could see by then(after 12 years in the work) that there were a LOT of troubles in the work. God called me out, nurtured me and nursed me back to health. As soon as I was able, He sent me onward. I had a job and was finally starting to recover financially from the work(in my mid 30s) and then God called me again to leave everything and to leave the country. I did. I have not worked a "job" since then(since the last of 2004) and God has sustained me and my family on three continents in the poorest conditions. I got married overseas and had two children. We have found favour with God and man and have proven those verses, "if you seek the kingdom of Heaven first, all these things will be added unto you". God has a lot of callings. The Work, as the friends and workers know it, is one calling. My calling was to help my brothers in the Work. One of the ways that God is using my life to help them is to prove to them that He indeed CAN sustain a family if they live in faith. The friends are supporting the workers. The workers are preaching that God's work is not as effective if there are married couples living in faith. We are a testimony to the contrary. Ministry and marriage are not mutually exclusive callings. There have been a lot of hurt and unfulfilled people because of that misunderstanding.
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Post by anneshirley on Sept 7, 2011 20:54:11 GMT -5
Thanks for your post, ts. I believe people are called to many varied paths in life. What looks to one person to be a "wrong" path, is often God leading someone through experiences that can help that person grow and mature spiritually. In my experience, the people who have been through the most difficult experiences are often the most compassionate and Christlike.
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Post by alia on Feb 28, 2012 23:05:07 GMT -5
Do any of the workers really enjoy the work or is it a stressful sacrifice for most?
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Post by Supercalifragilistic on Feb 29, 2012 10:31:21 GMT -5
Many many workers do truly enjoy the work and find a great joy in it being that it is their place and there is also a great peace from being in your place....inspite of any "stress" that may go along with Being in the work.
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Post by ts on Feb 29, 2012 18:12:17 GMT -5
Do any of the workers really enjoy the work or is it a stressful sacrifice for most? I would say that most if not all workers really enjoy being in the work. Of course, the word "enjoy" is very relative. I do not think that many of the workers are fulfilled in the work. Most workers go into the work with the intent of being there for life. I do believe that most of the workers are that committed to the work. Once a worker figures out what "fitting in" means in the work and what sort of "sacrifices" one has to make in order to fit in, I believe that the scope for fulfillment in the work is radically reduced. So, workers then learn to "enjoy" the limited scope of the work and are truly convinced that this is what the disciples had to put up with also. They are truly convinced that winning souls into the meetings, God's true way on the Earth, is the ultimate joy to enjoy. There is a common saying used in the work, "A change is as good as a rest." There are many "changes" that come in the work. Different "privileges". Instead of just having special meetings in your own state, you get to go to special meetings in another state or country. Preps is a change. However, it is really all the same sort of stuff. Special meetings and convention stew is pretty much the same all over the world. I am sure that the workers enjoy sharing their gospel and telling the friends about the "interest" and the "outsiders" who are coming to meeting. I did. Many of the stresses are manufactured stresses that have to do with fitting into an unbiblical, man made system of unmarried ministry and living in someone else' home all the time and not really having the freedom to fulfill your calling and actually be led by the Holy Spirit. But I am sure that most workers are convinced that they are preaching God's only way and have at the very least redefined "joy" as doing what they are doing.
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Post by ts on Mar 1, 2012 11:00:58 GMT -5
Do any of the workers really enjoy the work or is it a stressful sacrifice for most? My time in the work was very positive, with many intereresting experiences, and the stressfull is part of the learning process also. It takes both and good and bad experiences helping us to grow spiritually and naturally.I know that what you say is true, Nathan. It is unfortunate that so many of the friends and workers distance themselves from what you post here on the board. You are straightforward and honest. I don't see many of the friends here heartily agreeing with you. You believe what I believed and you are not afraid to say so. I get the impression that your/our beliefs are an embarrassment to the friends and workers when stated in public like we are doing.
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Post by Happy Feet on Mar 1, 2012 23:13:41 GMT -5
Do any of the workers really enjoy the work or is it a stressful sacrifice for most? My time in the work was very positive, with many intereresting experiences, and the stressfull is part of the learning process also. It takes both the good and bad experiences helping us to grow spiritually and naturally.You no doubt, went into the work intending to stay for life. If it is not too personal, Nathan, what made you decide to leave? You too ts, why did you leave?
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Post by deadstone on Mar 6, 2012 23:25:08 GMT -5
My family got involved with this cult 40 years ago. My 3 younger brothers followed my parents and joined. I was considered the black sheep of the family because I would not follow suit. These people were not Christ like. They condemned anyone to hell that did not belong to there religion, they are racists and think they are better than other people. They deny Christ's attonement on the cross saying that only a worker can save you. I use to think that they were a spin off of the catholic church, workers can't marry, only the church can save you, do this, don't do that, but then I found out who they really are. Nothing but a big lie. I would sure love to run into Dale Shultz now. Can anyone tell me how I can contact this joker.
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Post by Alan Vandermyden on Mar 7, 2012 18:59:24 GMT -5
Do any of the workers really enjoy the work or is it a stressful sacrifice for most? I enjoyed the work, but I also felt many tensions there. It was a great learning experience for me - in both positive and negative ways - and I feel God placed me there for that purpose, and then led me out of the work when that was accomplished. Though there may be some seeming "setbacks" to years spent in the work - financial, eduation, etc. - I don't begrudge the years, and I'm thankful I had them. I don't have any desire to re-do them, but then I wouldn't care to relive any of my years . . . I'm fine being a little older and I think a bit wiser. I too intended to die in the work, but I now view that as just human understanding, kind of wanting a guarantee on the future - I don't mean in a financial way, but just the human attempts to know how the future is going to work out. I think we're prone to "lock ourselves into" things that God may intend as only for a season.
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Post by ts on Mar 7, 2012 21:01:16 GMT -5
I know that what you say is true, Nathan. It is unfortunate that so many of the friends and workers distance themselves from what you post here on the board. You are straightforward and honest. I don't see many of the friends here heartily agreeing with you. You believe what I believed and you are not afraid to say so. I get the impression that your/our beliefs are an embarrassment to the friends and workers when stated in public like we are doing. ~~ Thanks, ts for the comment about straightforward and honest. Not all of the friends and workers are on the same level of understanding and revelation on different topics but we LOVE God that's the most important part. We can only share what the Lord has revealed to us and let others decide the truth for themselves. I am not talking about the understanding of the friends and workers. I am talking about their honesty. You are expressing without equivocation or evasion the doctrine that I believed and taught when I was in the work. You are not afraid to shout it from the roof top plainly because you believe it is true. When I was in the work, I could have the same discussion with the friends and workers that I have with you. Now, most of them pretend that they do not preach that the meetings is the only truth and way ...the way that Jesus started in Spirit and in Truth. They get all funny about it when asked directly. You are simply straightforward and honest. We both recognize that we are talking about the same beliefs of the friends and workers world wide and that you believe it and I do not. You don't deny the beliefs. Most of the friends and workers distance themselves from the beliefs in public.
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Post by ts on Mar 7, 2012 23:08:40 GMT -5
My time in the work was very positive, with many intereresting experiences, and the stressfull is part of the learning process also. It takes both the good and bad experiences helping us to grow spiritually and naturally. You no doubt, went into the work intending to stay for life. If it is not too personal, Nathan, what made you decide to leave? You too ts, why did you leave? I did not want to leave. I wanted to be able to spend my life doing God's work and winning souls to the only truth and way. I did not doubt that the meetings was the only truth and way that Jesus had established. However, I had had a bad experience with a very overbearing and abusive overseer in VA that was demoralizing. In the aftermath of that, I needed a friend and was groomed by a homosexual companion who made an advance on me. I did not think such abuses and homosexuality could even exist in the work. What made it worse is the fact that the homosexual companion had been caught before and sent home then back into the work. he was then my older companion and no one told me of his tendencies. I found out that all the brothers knew about it but me. The overseers knew about it but did not care enough to keep that sort of thing out of the work. I really had no one to talk to about it and my stress and frustration just grew. Added on top of that was a car accident that I was in that gave me whiplash. I could find no relief for the neck pain and the stress of it all only made it worse. I was in complete confusion and depression. I could not bear the thought of continuing in the work. I was home "resting" for a couple of months and the overseer kept coming over and asking me if I would like to go out to the convention grounds and do some work and he would ask me to speak in gospel meeting....Just to keep me active. It was just a lot of pressure for me. So, I made the decision to leave. I know that God led me into the work and out of it..Perhaps I was not as quick to respond to His leading out of the work because of the commitment I had to the work rather than His will and HIS WORK in my life.
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Post by ts on Mar 7, 2012 23:10:09 GMT -5
I am not talking about the understanding of the friends and workers. I am talking about their honesty. You are expressing without equivocation or evasion the doctrine that I believed and taught when I was in the work. You are not afraid to shout it from the roof top plainly because you believe it is true. When I was in the work, I could have the same discussion with the friends and workers that I have with you. Now, most of them pretend that they do not preach that the meetings is the only truth and way ...the way that Jesus started in Spirit and in Truth. They get all funny about it when asked directly. You are simply straightforward and honest. We both recognize that we are talking about the same beliefs of the friends and workers world wide and that you believe it and I do not. You don't deny the beliefs. Most of the friends and workers distance themselves from the beliefs in public. Thanks, ts for your honest post. I hope your post will encourage the friends and workers to be BOLD and standing up sharing their beliefs, which they believe in their hearts. I sincerely hope so, also, Nathan. I really do.
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Post by think2much on Mar 7, 2012 23:52:06 GMT -5
One explanation that never occurred to me until just recently: some young men and women realize their dating options are non-existent in the fellowship so they offer for the Work. And no, not for the obvious reasons, i.e. unattractiveness or social awkwardness. They are homosexual. Since they have to "die" to their sexual desires anyway (if they're going to stay professing, that is) why not die to self and be in a place of service at the same time? Bingo, the Work works! The only complication comes when they lose the battle and start hitting on their companions...
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Post by ts on Mar 29, 2012 10:56:54 GMT -5
Many many workers do truly enjoy the work and find a great joy in it being that it is their place and there is also a great peace from being in your place....inspite of any "stress" that may go along with Being in the work. I enjoy doing God's work. I do not mind God's work being difficult("stressful"). Satan is going to oppose God's work and we gain strength by resisting the devil and resiting temptation. However, The Work is not necessarily doing God's work all the time. Often when an overseer or worker is doing unrighteousness and one stands against unrighteousness, then one gets persecuted for righteousness' sake. They even "lose their place" in The Work for standing for truth(as we teach). I prefer "Losing My Place" and doing God's work/standing for truth rather than the stress of continuing in man's work keeping quiet and trying to preserve a good reputation among the workers or friends. I know how I could have preserved my place in the work but I was not willing for the compromise. I know how I can get back into meeting and "profess" and "do my little part" but it would take a lot of compromise in truth. I really do enjoy fellowship with some of the friends still. They are really great people who love truth above the trappings of doctrine. I have not lost anything by going out of the meeting. I still have fellowship with the fiends that are my friends no matter what. Nothing has changed with them. I also have fellowship with other people outside of meeting who love God. The Harvest Field is much larger than the workers think. There are more labourers in the Harvest Field than they think. The effort of the labourers is different than the workers think. When the workers meet someone with whom they can speak about God, their main effort is to get them to get in gospel meeting and "profess" and then keep coming to meeting and convention..etc. Dennis Kinnan told me that he believes that there are other people besides the friends who are saved. However, if they are saved, they will eventually be in meeting. I believe this sums up how I felt while in the work. I do not know of one worker in all the dozens I met in those 12 years from all over the world who would have preached any differently. If there is a worker who feels different, I would love to speak with them.
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mira
New Member
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Post by mira on Mar 29, 2012 15:10:56 GMT -5
The overseer in the area I live said this just last week - "People ask if we think we're the only way. I say to them Jesus is the only way". The mood is changing in regards to the "only the F&W are saved" question. Sometimes those who have left the meetings aren't aware of the mood changes that are happening at this very moment. Some of these changes are not good at all but this particular mood change is very good!! Don't be too quick to assume everything has stayed the same
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Post by ts on Mar 29, 2012 20:06:44 GMT -5
The overseer in the area I live said this just last week - "People ask if we think we're the only way. I say to them Jesus is the only way". The mood is changing in regards to the "only the F&W are saved" question. Sometimes those who have left the meetings aren't aware of the mood changes that are happening at this very moment. Some of these changes are not good at all but this particular mood change is very good!! Don't be too quick to assume everything has stayed the same When I was in the work I was instructed to say what your overseer said when asked directly about whether or not we are the only truth and way. "Jesus is the only way." Of course He is. No one can disagree with that one. That is a way of equivocating until the person to which you are talking decides to go to gospel meeting and get indoctrinated and get the revelation that the meetings in the home are the way Jesus taught and that the workers are going the way that Jesus taught(and "worldly preachers"/ all other preachers aren't). Jesus is the only way. People who do not go to meeting are serving Jesus. They go to other churches and worship in buildings in various ways. These people often have fellowship with other Christians who do not worship the same as they do or believe exactly like they do. Other Christians learn from one another without fear of "being poisoned by false doctrine" of folks who are showing the fruits of the Spirit and worship differently. I do not see the workers reaching out and learning from other groups like I see "worldly preachers" doing. I do not see the workers encouraging the friends to seek out help from other churches or preachers in order to get more understanding where they lack(um, workers do readily admit that they do not know everything. I just do not see them admitting that other groups or individuals "outside" know worthwhile things that they do not). Again, if your overseer is really and truly saying that other groups are preaching the truth and he sees the fruit of the Holy Spirit working them, I would like to talk to him. He and I could have good fellowship. Is he open to that? PM me, if so.
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Post by findingtruth on Mar 29, 2012 21:55:41 GMT -5
The overseer in the area I live said this just last week - "People ask if we think we're the only way. I say to them Jesus is the only way". The mood is changing in regards to the "only the F&W are saved" question. Sometimes those who have left the meetings aren't aware of the mood changes that are happening at this very moment. Some of these changes are not good at all but this particular mood change is very good!! Don't be too quick to assume everything has stayed the same gemmy, unfortunately I believe you are mistaken about the general attitude. Many, if not most of us who left the fellowship are still very close to those who still cling to the "only way" mindset. I hear comments on a regular basis, stated quite simply, that the 2x2 fellowship IS a continuation of the early church spoken of in Acts. There is still a refusal to accept that fact that the fellowship was indeed started in the late 1800s. I am saddened by those even on TMB who refuse to acknowledge that fact when there is so much evidence to prove this. Most will not acknowledge that this "deception" has still altered their perception of every other spiritual brother and sister outside of the 2x2 fellowship. Fact is many will not honestly acknowledge them as equals in the family of God. For reasons I cannot comprehend many still feel superior in their understanding and knowledge of TRUTH and seem to mix up a fellowship with TRUTH. I believe that there are far more outside of the 2x2 fellowship with a greater understanding of pure scripture. Instead of claiming an unbroken succession of apostles (which many refer to as "modern day workers") they are now changing their tune and openly stating that JESUS is the only WAY, while in the back of their minds and in their hearts they still believe that the 2x2 fellowship IS indeed the church that HE established. I believe that the gospel has been preached since Christ sent out the apostles. And I believe there has ALWAY been a remnant that has honestly wanted to follow the teachings of Christ to the best of their understanding. They have prayed for understanding and as a result many various fellowship groups have been started with the intention of following the "method" that they feel most closely resembles the New Testament church. BUT - every group is different because there are varied ideas of what is most important to Christ. After leaving the 2x2 fellowship I made it my mission to attend a wide variety of churches and to visit with many of their members. Some churches are larger, some are quite small. Some meet in homes, some in church buildings. But I consistently see that each one started with the mission of attempting to emulate the church that Christ established based on their limited understanding. I feel that Irvine did the same thing with the earnest desire to bring things back to the basics of the early church. Like most churches, they got off track. What I see in most workers is a level of comfort in the security of knowing that they will be supported by the church as they attempt to keep the church encouraged. What I DON'T see, and I think it a terrible deviation from the commission of Christ to His apostles, is the failure on the part of most workers (there ARE exceptions) to boldly go out and preach the gospel everywhere. There are entirely too many restrictions set by overseers that hinder them from doing the complete work of God. Truly the harvest is great and laborers few. Thirty years ago workers were diligent in going through communities and passing out invitations to gospel meetings. They no longer do this but instead expect the friends to do all the footwork and they simply hold gospel meetings with the hope that the friends have invited some outsiders. Sadly, this is not happening. I'm not sure WHY most workers no longer feel the need to go out and invite EVERYONE to gospel meetings! Do I condemn the group? No. I do hope they will have a sincere desire to accept the Scriptures as they are written with putting their own suitable twist on them. It's easy enough for any of us to do so.
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Post by ts on Mar 30, 2012 14:40:44 GMT -5
Is the "Meetings" a church to join? The fiends and workers say that it isn't. If not, then what beliefs are required in order to take part in meeting? Can any Christian with a revelation that Jesus is the only way come and take part in meeting?
The answer, of course, is "no". They must first come to gospel meeting and "profess". Even if they are already professing to be a Christian.
So, tell me, "findingtruth", would your overseer be fine with me taking part in meeting in your state? If so, is he ok with the fact that another overseer would want me to go back to gospel and "reprofess" because I state openly that I do not believe that the friends and workers are the only true believers and the meetings are the only true fellowship?
Seriously, I would like to talk to your overseer. What he SEEMS to be saying is contrary to the former overseer of Alabama, Dennis Kinnan. At the very least, your beliefs are in contrast to his beliefs and more in agreement with mine...and I am considered an "outsider."
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Post by findingtruth on Mar 30, 2012 16:44:12 GMT -5
Is the "Meetings" a church to join? The fiends and workers say that it isn't. If not, then what beliefs are required in order to take part in meeting? Can any Christian with a revelation that Jesus is the only way come and take part in meeting? The answer, of course, is "no". They must first come to gospel meeting and "profess". Even if they are already professing to be a Christian. So, tell me, "findingtruth", would your overseer be fine with me taking part in meeting in your state? If so, is he ok with the fact that another overseer would want me to go back to gospel and "reprofess" because I state openly that I do not believe that the friends and workers are the only true believers and the meetings are the only true fellowship? Seriously, I would like to talk to your overseer. What he SEEMS to be saying is contrary to the former overseer of Alabama, Dennis Kinnan. At the very least, your beliefs are in contrast to his beliefs and more in agreement with mine...and I am considered an "outsider." ts, first I'd like to make it clear that I no longer attend meetings and have NO desire to return. I attempted to make sensible conversation with our overseer as well as other workers prior to my exit. There was no sensible conversation to be found but instead a feeble attempt to rationalize the same line of shallow reasoning that has kept this fellowship intact for some 115 years or so. I had another fruitless conversation today with family members that refuse to believe the fellowship was started in the late 1800s. He spoke of the "perfect ministry". His belief is that Jesus' main purpose was to establish a perfect ministry that would continue unbroken until His return. He believes wholeheartedly that the 2x2 ministry(the workers) IS that ONE ministry spoken of in the New Testament and that NO other ministry is part of the TRUE family of Christ. He indicated that all other churches preach a false Christ quoting verses from Matthew 24. I am fully aware that there are many who twist scripture and present false doctrine but NOT ALL churches do such. There are many workers who also deviate from scriptures. He mentioned some examples where preachers who "appeared" to care about the flock (their congregation) would leave their church and move to another "higher calling" (I've heard him refer to a "higher calling" as more money in another location in an attempt to blast ALL other pastors). He stated that while others can appear to be righteous, do very good things, pray good prayers, give sermons that are scripturally based - they are still outside of the one family that God has chosen as His people because they are void of understanding. I asked him if the same could be true of those in the 2x2 fellowship. He was adamant that the scriptures paints tlhe perfect picture of the fellowship he loves so much. This IS, I believe, the general attitude of MANY, if not MOST in the fellowship. Those who do not accept this line of reasoning often feel uncomfortable with the group and will leave. They don't leave as a result of bitterness, unwillingness or rebellion. Instead, many leave because they can no longer condone a lie. You see, ts, I have no respect for workers who have covered important truths from unsuspecting friends in an attempt to convince others that they have the only acceptable church in the eyes of God. To me that is gross deception. Additionally, I cannot respect workers who KNOW that their fellowship was started in the late 1800s and to allow the lies to continue because they are afraid to challenge those at the top or their peers. I've all too often heard Ephesians 4 quoted about "one lord, one faith and one baptism" in an attempt to justify their "only one right fellowship" spirit. Any time I have attempted to express the fact that there is ONE family and that family is connected to Christ I have faced the scorn and judgement of those who simply felt I was rebelling from the ONE WAY Jesus established (the 2x2 fellowship). It is my wish for those who continue to attend meetings , especially on this board, to consider that fact that they may have been deceived. I seek ONLY truth and will continue to seek truth. Warm fuzzy feelings and security in a fellowship that pampers my ego or tends to justify my own viewpoint is NOT what I seek. When I see error I cannot sit by and accept status quo. I will continue to seek and pray, understanding that we are indeed pilgrims and strangers on this earth and our only source of true life is our connection to our Creator. Even after I left the fellowship I attempted to sugar coat the fellowship some because of my love for many inside. I can not longer, in all good conscience, do so. I don't condemn the people but I do condemn the deception.
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