mo
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Post by mo on Apr 1, 2011 9:38:43 GMT -5
Hello everyone! My daughter and I went to our very first gospel meeting 2 weeks ago, we were invited by her very close friend from school after many questions about his faith. I've never been to anything like it and I was so surprised that I didn't know any hymns. How can this be? I've been a Christian for over 20 years? I diligently searched the internet for information and finally discovered several websites and this one My daughter is very confused now and doesn't really know how to talk to her friend. She was so excited when she thought that he was a christian like her, but now she's worried that she'll say something wrong and she's concerned that he never really was the friend that she thought he was. I'm not really sure how to handle this and I know that there are people here still in the fellowship that can help me navigate this tricky situation. I'm very grateful for this forum. Thank you so much.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2011 9:44:56 GMT -5
Many of our hymns were written by members of the church, so although you might recognize some of the tunes, the words would be different.
Why would your daughter think her friend wasn't really a friend now? I've got friends in other churches, and I hope I'm as real a friend to them as anyone within my church. And yes, we disagree on doctrine...doesn't change the friendship though.
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Post by ScholarGal on Apr 1, 2011 10:32:00 GMT -5
Hi mo, and welcome to the board. I'm not really sure how to handle this and I know that there are people here still in the fellowship that can help me navigate this tricky situation. I'm not sure I understand what's tricky about your situation, but if you're uncomfortable with the gospel meetings you have no obligation to return. If your daughter's friend asks why you choose not to return, simply reply that you are Christian and satisfied with your current church. There's no reason your daughter can't remain friends with her friend from school. I was born into and raised in the friends and workers church, and I always had friends from outside the church. If you're still interested in attending gospel meetings, you'll be glad to know you're not the only curious "newcomer" seeking info on this message board. Feel free to ask questions, then weigh the answers you get from both current members and former members of the church here.
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mo
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Post by mo on Apr 1, 2011 12:07:47 GMT -5
Hberry, I think it's because his responses when she talked about spiritual matters was avoidant more than anything and now she realizes why. Her faith is very important to her and I guess she hoped they'd be on the same page and be able to discuss the bible and faith. Now she's not even sure if he has any respect for her faith and she's afraid to ask. Thanks Nathan, I'll check out the website ScholarGal, I am not uncomfortable with the gospel meetings at all, on the contrary. But I am also very happy with our church and have no plans to change. He just kept his faith so secretive which, I guess, is part of the f&w way. Looking into other sites it appears the way f&ws view us is pretty negative and f&ws are discouraged from talking about their faith openly which discourages open dialog with someone from a different church. I'm not sure if that's true for everyone. I really would like to know how other Christians are perceived. Are we Satan worshipers? Are we going to hell?
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Post by eyedeetentee on Apr 1, 2011 12:40:14 GMT -5
This story makes no sense - past and present tenses are messed up. Who is baiting? Someone got bored and created another pseudo.
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Post by stargazer on Apr 1, 2011 12:42:35 GMT -5
This story makes no sense - past and present tenses are messed up. Who is baiting? Someone got bored and created another pseudo. My suspicion also. Sorry mo, if I'm wrong.
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mo
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Post by mo on Apr 1, 2011 12:55:19 GMT -5
Sorry, not a pseudo, It truly is my first time here...sorry if my tenses are messed up
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Post by ScholarGal on Apr 1, 2011 13:53:17 GMT -5
Just so you know, here's a quick outline of the recruitment process that the friends and workers use for their church. (You can usually deflect any undue pressure by saying you are happy with your current church.) 1. If the friends know someone who starts asking religious questions, invite them to gospel meetings. ( See how your daughter got an invitation?) 2. The workers speak at the gospel meetings, and after several months of attending, the newcomers start to understand a little about the church. Alternately, the workers will hold private bible studies with interested parties. 3. At the end of a gospel meeting series the workers will "test" the meeting by asking if anyone wants to make a new profession of faith to follow Jesus. Anyone interested (usually children or newcomers) stands up during the last verse of a hymn. That's what they call "professing" and it is generally taken as a sign that the person is joining the church as a participating member. He just kept his faith so secretive which, I guess, is part of the f&w way. Looking into other sites it appears the way f&ws view us is pretty negative and f&ws are discouraged from talking about their faith openly which discourages open dialog with someone from a different church. I'm not sure if that's true for everyone. It's really sad when people feel like they are discouraged from talking about their faith. Sometimes it's because they lack practice. Since the friends and workers don't have a formal Christian education curriculum, some of the young people have a hard time formulating answers to questions. Most Christian education curricula have some sort of question/answer format. That question answer format happens only briefly in some gospel meetings. The young children under 10 are given scripture passages to read one week, then asked basic questions the following week for 5 or 10 minutes. Sometimes they'll get assignments to memorize the names of the gospels, or some other subset of bible books. If your daughter wants to open up a spiritual conversation with her friend, here are some general (non-threatening) questions to start with: - Which bible version do you like to read? What do you do when you don't understand a passage or some words?
- Have you professed? Why or why not?
- Do you give your testimony in meetings? What did you share this week?
- What is on your Wednesday night bible study list this week? What are your thoughts on this week's chapter/topic?
- Do you have a favorite parable or Old Testament story?
The worship style of the friends and workers has most church members sharing their thoughts, but it's a one-sided talk, not a give-and-take conversation debating interpretation or doctrinal points. Other Christians are NOT considered Satan worshipers, but there is definitely a wide variety of opinions. - Some friends believe that other Christians are saved, and recognize people in other denominations as brothers and sisters in Christ.
- Some friends seem to believe that other denominational Christians just haven't got a full revelation that tells them they should be listening only to homeless preachers and worshiping only in homes.
- Some friends believe that we shouldn't be the judge of anyone else, so we can't say for sure whether any specific person will be saved.
- Some friends believe that anyone who doesn't go to every Sunday morning meeting, Wednesday night meeting, gospel meeting and convention is bound for hell.
There are a lot of misconceptions about other denominations within the friends and workers because many of them are from families that have only gone to meetings for multiple generations. Most have never been to another church service. The few that do come from another Christian denomination have often left that denomination because of a bad experience, so they don't have much to say to counteract the misconceptions. Some of the common misconceptions: salaried pastors are only in it for the money, church buildings are a gaudy waste of money, talking in the sanctuary before the service automatically means the people are disrespectful and have a bad spirit. Many friends and workers consider open money collections (passing the plate) to be either distasteful or downright wrong.
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Post by emy on Apr 1, 2011 15:16:23 GMT -5
ScholarGal, you are doing a great job! But this point rather surprised me:
<< # Some friends believe that anyone who doesn't go to every Sunday morning meeting, Wednesday night meeting, gospel meeting and convention is bound for hell. >>
Really? I haven't discovered that attitude yet! (Or maybe I'm too naive to recognize it?)
Welcome to TMB, mo. I'm a long-time participant in the fellowship.
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Post by eyedeetentee on Apr 1, 2011 15:36:18 GMT -5
Go east and a little south, emy. You will find it. Or refer to that thread on the main page that I dug up out of non-existence today.
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Post by someguy on Apr 1, 2011 16:13:27 GMT -5
ScholarGal, you are doing a great job! But this point rather surprised me: << # Some friends believe that anyone who doesn't go to every Sunday morning meeting, Wednesday night meeting, gospel meeting and convention is bound for hell. >> Really? I haven't discovered that attitude yet! (Or maybe I'm too naive to recognize it?) Welcome to TMB, mo. I'm a long-time participant in the fellowship. Emy You have got to be kidding right. My friend in Australia was kicked out by the workers there, unless for the following conditions (this was less than 6 months ago) 1. He had to confess the workers were the only ones who had the Spirit of God, other ministers didn't. 2. He had to attend every Gospel meeting, study meeting and sunday morning meeting. 3. He had to realize that meetings were the true way, the only way. Seeing he couldn't do this, he was immediately excommunicated. This attitude is prevalent, in the mid west states, and up into the mid provinces of Canada. Highly legalistic.
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Post by emy on Apr 1, 2011 19:47:00 GMT -5
Emy You have got to be kidding right. My friend in Australia was kicked out by the workers there, unless for the following conditions (this was less than 6 months ago) 1. He had to confess the workers were the only ones who had the Spirit of God, other ministers didn't. 2. He had to attend every Gospel meeting, study meeting and sunday morning meeting. 3. He had to realize that meetings were the true way, the only way. Seeing he couldn't do this, he was immediately excommunicated. This attitude is prevalent, in the mid west states, and up into the mid provinces of Canada. Highly legalistic. Not kidding at all. This is definitely a new thing for me!
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Post by someguy on Apr 2, 2011 11:19:01 GMT -5
Not kidding at all. This is definitely a new thing for me! ~~ This is a NEW thing in the West coast of USA also. This has to be revelation from God nobody can't FORCE anyone to believe it. If God hasn't revealed His Truth and Way to people they are NOT going to see or understand it.Hardly a new thing Nate. This has been the standard since before you were a worker. Seriously, how do you think people can take you seriously or think of every joining up when you deny something as obvious as this. There have been varying stages of this for years. Oh and the west coast is by far the most strict with some of the rules. They may not be as legalistic, but if you are divorced and remarried you may not attend any meetings period until you leave your spouce. That is the new edict being enforced by Walter in BC. So please, don't plead ignorance. If someone asks serious questions about meetings and the system, it behooves you to be honest at the very least.
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Post by trevybear on Apr 4, 2011 2:35:42 GMT -5
in simple terms Paul who was Saul killed the true Christians. Saul thought he was a true servant of God but was not. He was told by God that he was wrong. He changed and joined the true and living way and became an apostle of Christ. How can there be many ways there is only one true way. There is only one fold as it says in the bible. If you take the money out of the worldly churches they will all fall. If you take the money out of the truth it will still keep going some how or another. Church buildings need money the truth does not. Yes there are provisions made by God but in reality a worldly church cannot stand without money.
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Post by kiwi on Apr 4, 2011 3:51:36 GMT -5
Hello everyone! My daughter and I went to our very first gospel meeting 2 weeks ago, we were invited by her very close friend from school after many questions about his faith. I've never been to anything like it and I was so surprised that I didn't know any hymns. How can this be? I've been a Christian for over 20 years? I diligently searched the internet for information and finally discovered several websites and this one My daughter is very confused now and doesn't really know how to talk to her friend. She was so excited when she thought that he was a christian like her, but now she's worried that she'll say something wrong and she's concerned that he never really was the friend that she thought he was. I'm not really sure how to handle this and I know that there are people here still in the fellowship that can help me navigate this tricky situation. I'm very grateful for this forum. Thank you so much. Just one question. Have you asked God about this? Surely I would have thought that the first port of call for a Christian is to ask God.
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mo
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Post by mo on Apr 4, 2011 8:34:01 GMT -5
ScholarGal: Thanks so much for all of your information, it's really appreciated. I'll pass it on to my daughter The book "Gates of Splendor" was recommended to me, anyone know anything about it? Why yes Kiwi, I did. I prayed when we were asked to go, before we went, during the service, after...currently lol. God has given me a love for these people that's indescribable and I want to know more. Thanks for asking though
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mo
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Post by mo on Apr 4, 2011 9:43:01 GMT -5
oops, the book is called "The Gate Seldom Found" by Raymond Reid...I should have double checked my source, sorry
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Post by CherieKropp on Apr 4, 2011 9:53:55 GMT -5
Reid's book is a fiction book - and does not present the 2x2 sect as it really is...I wouldn't recommend it if you're wanting accurate information about the sect.
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Post by emy on Apr 4, 2011 11:22:50 GMT -5
Reid's book is a fiction book - and does not present the 2x2 sect as it really is...I wouldn't recommend it if you're wanting accurate information about the sect. However, it's often recommended by former f&w to people still in the fellowship to read.
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Post by ts on Apr 4, 2011 12:24:22 GMT -5
Not kidding at all. This is definitely a new thing for me! ~~ This is a NEW thing in the West coast of USA also. This has to be revelation from God nobody can't FORCE anyone to believe it. If God hasn't revealed His Truth and Way to people they are NOT going to see or understand it.Exactly the attitude we are talking about, Nathan. You might just say to MO that she has not had God's truth and way revealed to her though she has been a Christian for 20 years. It makes no sense unless you belong to the f&w's. The F&Ws believe that they are in God's only truth and way. It is not a far stretch for the workers to make ultimatums to people so that they confess this or lose fellowship with the people in meeting. Also, this attitude separates them from other Christians. Again, Nathan, I admire you for stating plainly that you believe that the way the workers are going and the way the F&W fellowship runs is the way that Jesus intended it and the ONLY way He intended it. You are perhaps the only person I have known who publicly declares that.
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Post by eyedeetentee on Apr 4, 2011 13:18:51 GMT -5
Ts, I keep seeing your answers to quoted text are within the quotes. Start your typing after the last quote dealy-bopper so your words aren't within the quote box.
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Post by ts on Apr 4, 2011 18:12:41 GMT -5
Ts, I keep seeing your answers to quoted text are within the quotes. Start your typing after the last quote dealy-bopper so your words aren't within the quote box. Thanks. I try not to do that. I also noticed that I missed getting outside the last quote.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2011 18:42:38 GMT -5
Ts, I keep seeing your answers to quoted text are within the quotes. Start your typing after the last quote dealy-bopper so your words aren't within the quote box. Thanks. I try not to do that. I also noticed that I missed getting outside the last quote. I've had the occasional dealy bopper problem myself and it's aggravating when you miss it.
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mo
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Post by mo on Apr 5, 2011 8:41:13 GMT -5
I'm wondering how it can be that my walk with God...my relationship with Him, as my saviour and friend, the very thing that turned my life 180, the reason that I do...everything...not for money or fame or a pat on the back but because I love Him so much...are you saying that's a lie?
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mo
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Post by mo on Apr 5, 2011 9:22:50 GMT -5
Nathan, I read your testimony, it was beautiful.
I find that there are spiritual leaders from all denominations that can lead people astray. That's why I always remind people of who we are following...not man but God.
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Post by eyedeetentee on Apr 5, 2011 19:13:19 GMT -5
Nathan, I read your testimony, it was beautiful. I find that there are spiritual leaders from all denominations that can lead people astray. That's why I always remind people of who we are following...not man but God. So now you're an innie? I think you need to take lessons on how to have multiple personalities.
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mo
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Post by mo on Apr 6, 2011 7:08:36 GMT -5
eyedeetentee: LOL you're hysterical!! I don't think I need lessons ;D
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mo
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Post by mo on Apr 7, 2011 10:37:34 GMT -5
eyedeetentee: to clarify I appreciate Nathan's spiritual journey and find that the holy spirit working in his life and giving himself fully to God is beautiful. It saddens me that any spiritual leader would be so controlling in another person's life that they felt the need to get angry about their choice instead of simply praying for them and allowing God to work in their life. Sometimes when you're in a place of authority it's very difficult to give the control you feel you have back to God, where it rightly belongs. We are just His servants. Does that make sense? or do I still have multiple personalities?
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