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Post by emerald on Feb 27, 2011 19:34:30 GMT -5
Sigh... Catholic schools and Protestant schools in the North are (bar a few such as Rockport or Campbell (Protestant) are non fee-paying. Schools such as the Collegiate, Portora etc. are funded by the state as is Mount Lourdes but as with Mount Lourdes which is under the patronage of a Catholic bishop, Portora (and the other Royal Schools) the Collegiate etc. are nominally under the patronage of the CoI. I understand there are a few schools in Co Antrim that are nominally under the patronage of the Presbyterian church and Friends School in Lisburn is nominally under the patronage of The Society of Friends (not to be confused with the 2x2s!) commonly known as the Quakers. Methodist College in Belfast is obviously under the patronage of the Methodist church. S-o those N.I. 2x2s who told me that some Catholic schools were fee paying were wrong? An excellent suggestion- and very valid. I've not ever heard anyone within the meetings sneer at others for possessing a television. Perhaps if someone within the meetings had one they may but most 2x2s I mix with have more on their minds than to worry about their neighbour's 50" plasma screen. And it has to be said, if the same neighbour invites them around to watch the Royal Wedding at the end of April, they'll be there like a shot and glued to their seats. Come on now, the worldly sin of the TV is a favoured topic amongst the 2x2s.They sneer at outsiders, label them worldly for owning TVs and wearing trousers, and woe be tide any 2x2 escapee who gets a TV!Tongues start wagging then from one old biddy's phone in one area to anothers' in another area about the sinfulness of that person.There is such a smug attitude of "we are better than them because we don't have TVs and because we have the true way" and the workers promote the message that TV ownership equals a lost and sinful mind.They joyfully preach about those who "lost their way", got a TV, didn't listen to workers' warnings (threats) and died tragicly repenting leaving the meetings on their deathbed and lamenting it was "too late". Of course if a neighbour invites them to watch a show, they have no qualms- and said neighbour isn't sneered at as much for having a TV anymore. Well, according to you the 2x2s are a devious bunch what with leading double lives and sneering at others so what's a little mix up about fee-paying Catholic schools between friends? I don't know of one fee-paying Catholic school (boarding is not a factor here as it has to be paid for regardless) in the North but am prepared to be corrected. I'm not sure what 2x2 company you keep but you really ought to consider moving on to busier 2x2s. I've not heard sneering at "outsiders" ever, North or South, on account of them having a TV. Like I said previously, they may sneer at supposedly professing people if they have a television but I can't think of one household where the occupants are professing, where there is a TV. The workers deal with that issue pretty swiftly so the friends tend not to rock that particular boat. On the other hand, when people leave and a TV is installed, any 2x2s that have commented to me are generally saddened as it is a firm indicator that the lost soul will not be returning to the meetings any time soon. And I do believe the workers have a point about TVs anyway. It has a seductive way of making a person waste a whole afternoon when there's work to be done.
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Post by apple on Feb 28, 2011 6:57:06 GMT -5
Well, according to you the 2x2s are a devious bunch what with leading double lives and sneering at others so what's a little mix up about fee-paying Catholic schools between friends? I don't know of one fee-paying Catholic school (boarding is not a factor here as it has to be paid for regardless) in the North but am prepared to be corrected. I'm not sure what 2x2 company you keep but you really ought to consider moving on to busier 2x2s. I've not heard sneering at "outsiders" ever, North or South, on account of them having a TV. Like I said previously, they may sneer at supposedly professing people if they have a television but I can't think of one household where the occupants are professing, where there is a TV. The workers deal with that issue pretty swiftly so the friends tend not to rock that particular boat. On the other hand, when people leave and a TV is installed, any 2x2s that have commented to me are generally saddened as it is a firm indicator that the lost soul will not be returning to the meetings any time soon. And I do believe the workers have a point about TVs anyway. It has a seductive way of making a person waste a whole afternoon when there's work to be done. I don't believe that all 2x2s are hyprocrites but I believe most are. Most young 2x2s watch DVDs but when questioned on the TV issue express disapproval at TV ownership and feel that those outsiders who have TVs are hell bound. That kind of double standard is hyprocrisy because as we well know, watching something on a computer and watching something on a TV are the same. As it is I do know a professing family that has had a TV for years. It was hidden in their attic.Yes, they seem to be a rare case but the workers never discovered it.However, the main problem is 2x2s think badly of those outsiders on account of minor things like TV ownership, which is not their place to do so.They are not in a place to judge people for owning TVs- especially when their young people watch Sex in the City on their laptops while feeling superior to those with TVs. I never professed but do not bother with having a TV.It was one of the few things the workers actually got right.I agree with your opinion on TV.From living with friends with a TV I noticed the amount of swear words, the violence, the constant reference to sex, the constant messages to women about not being beautiful enough and the encouragement of casual sex all from the TV.The TV is a bad influence which tells us what to think, what's "cool" and what to wear- that said TV is not all bad.TV has wonderful programs on historical events, geographical places we would not see otherwise and nature programs.On the occasion TV in moderation is alright. As for some of the Catholic schools being fee paying, that was what a 2x2 from N.I. told me.This person could well be wrong.
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Post by emerald on Feb 28, 2011 11:27:47 GMT -5
You'd wonder why they'd bother with a TV if it's in the attic. It's got to be a pain climbing wobbly ladders with your bowl of popcorn. They were obviously addicted to Emmerdale.
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Post by apple on Feb 28, 2011 12:40:11 GMT -5
You'd wonder why they'd bother with a TV if it's in the attic. It's got to be a pain climbing wobbly ladders with your bowl of popcorn. They were obviously addicted to Emmerdale. The attic was the "den" for playing in (and for hiding from the workers in) so it was kinda cosy. I wonder if they paid a TV licence.Can you imagine the shockwaves if a 2x2 got charged for not having a TV licence for their TV?
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Post by emerald on Feb 28, 2011 17:48:13 GMT -5
You'd wonder why they'd bother with a TV if it's in the attic. It's got to be a pain climbing wobbly ladders with your bowl of popcorn. They were obviously addicted to Emmerdale. The attic was the "den" for playing in (and for hiding from the workers in) so it was kinda cosy. I wonder if they paid a TV licence.Can you imagine the shockwaves if a 2x2 got charged for not having a TV licence for their TV? How did they get the thing up into the attic? I'm assuming it wasn't a flat screen! I wouldn't like to have been the one trying to push it up through the trapdoor. And I do hope if there were girls, they wore trousers to thwart any leering young man following them up the ladder. ;D And the thing about licences - I've been told the postman advises the Post Office of new residences or new residents in a house or the appearance of an aerial so bills for the licence can be sent. Another person told me a van goes around with some sort of sensor on it detecting TVs and checking against a database to see if a licence is paid. If the house was well off the road, they may avoid detection. Do you know if they had an aerial? From what I'm told, the little "rabbit ears" on top of the TV don't really work.
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Post by apple on Mar 1, 2011 13:56:39 GMT -5
The attic was the "den" for playing in (and for hiding from the workers in) so it was kinda cosy. I wonder if they paid a TV licence.Can you imagine the shockwaves if a 2x2 got charged for not having a TV licence for their TV? How did they get the thing up into the attic? I'm assuming it wasn't a flat screen! I wouldn't like to have been the one trying to push it up through the trapdoor. And I do hope if there were girls, they wore trousers to thwart any leering young man following them up the ladder. ;D And the thing about licences - I've been told the postman advises the Post Office of new residences or new residents in a house or the appearance of an aerial so bills for the licence can be sent. Another person told me a van goes around with some sort of sensor on it detecting TVs and checking against a database to see if a licence is paid. If the house was well off the road, they may avoid detection. Do you know if they had an aerial? From what I'm told, the little "rabbit ears" on top of the TV don't really work. This was years before flatscreens.I don't recall there being an aerial about but maybe they did pay for the licence.
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Post by calleduntoliberty on May 30, 2012 9:38:15 GMT -5
On more than one occasion I heard it stated that it was the Catholic Church which broke away from the Meetings ! Actually, that's essentially true. There were church meetings for hundreds of years before some of them started banding together under Rome and formed what we now call the Catholic Church. That's clearly a simplification, but obviously the Roman Catholic Church did not exist from the time of the apostles. Rather it came about as a change.
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Post by calleduntoliberty on May 30, 2012 9:39:28 GMT -5
What puzzles me as an outsider is wy do the workers in Northern Ireland hold missions in Orange Halls? Surely this must alienate a reasonable proportion of the population and certainly does not present a neutral image! What is the problem with that? What is the significance of these 'Orange Halls' that you think would alienate people? You don't provide any context or explanation of that...
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Post by calleduntoliberty on May 30, 2012 9:43:59 GMT -5
Well, according to you the 2x2s are a devious bunch what with leading double lives and sneering at others so what's a little mix up about fee-paying Catholic schools between friends? I don't know of one fee-paying Catholic school (boarding is not a factor here as it has to be paid for regardless) in the North but am prepared to be corrected. I'm not sure what 2x2 company you keep but you really ought to consider moving on to busier 2x2s. I've not heard sneering at "outsiders" ever, North or South, on account of them having a TV. Like I said previously, they may sneer at supposedly professing people if they have a television but I can't think of one household where the occupants are professing, where there is a TV. The workers deal with that issue pretty swiftly so the friends tend not to rock that particular boat. On the other hand, when people leave and a TV is installed, any 2x2s that have commented to me are generally saddened as it is a firm indicator that the lost soul will not be returning to the meetings any time soon. And I do believe the workers have a point about TVs anyway. It has a seductive way of making a person waste a whole afternoon when there's work to be done. I don't believe that all 2x2s are hyprocrites but I believe most are. Most young 2x2s watch DVDs but when questioned on the TV issue express disapproval at TV ownership and feel that those outsiders who have TVs are hell bound. That kind of double standard is hyprocrisy because as we well know, watching something on a computer and watching something on a TV are the same. As it is I do know a professing family that has had a TV for years. It was hidden in their attic.Yes, they seem to be a rare case but the workers never discovered it.However, the main problem is 2x2s think badly of those outsiders on account of minor things like TV ownership, which is not their place to do so.They are not in a place to judge people for owning TVs- especially when their young people watch Sex in the City on their laptops while feeling superior to those with TVs. I never professed but do not bother with having a TV.It was one of the few things the workers actually got right.I agree with your opinion on TV.From living with friends with a TV I noticed the amount of swear words, the violence, the constant reference to sex, the constant messages to women about not being beautiful enough and the encouragement of casual sex all from the TV.The TV is a bad influence which tells us what to think, what's "cool" and what to wear- that said TV is not all bad.TV has wonderful programs on historical events, geographical places we would not see otherwise and nature programs.On the occasion TV in moderation is alright. The issue is not owning a TV. The issue is wasting a large number of hours on a regular basis watching it -- or watching certain things at all. You seem to agree with that but don't acknowledge that that's how others see it too. I don't know anyone who has a problem with 'owning' a TV (that I know of). Perhaps some do 'hide' them. Consider that others store their TV out of the way somewhere to get it out of their way. If they use it on a rare occasion, but it doesn't have a prominent place in their lives, why waste the space by giving it a prominent place in their living rooms?
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Post by emerald on May 30, 2012 11:23:28 GMT -5
What puzzles me as an outsider is wy do the workers in Northern Ireland hold missions in Orange Halls? Surely this must alienate a reasonable proportion of the population and certainly does not present a neutral image! What is the problem with that? What is the significance of these 'Orange Halls' that you think would alienate people? You don't provide any context or explanation of that... A swift google should explain much. The Orange Order was founded to preserve and protect Protestant culture and values in Ireland. Obviously Catholics don't feel very comfortable with the Order so it's a bit much to expect them to sit in an Orange hall what with pictures of the Queen and Union flags draped on the walls along with the purpose of the organisation.
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Post by irvinegrey on Jun 11, 2012 13:26:07 GMT -5
What is the problem with that? What is the significance of these 'Orange Halls' that you think would alienate people? You don't provide any context or explanation of that... A swift google should explain much. The Orange Order was founded to preserve and protect Protestant culture and values in Ireland. Obviously Catholics don't feel very comfortable with the Order so it's a bit much to expect them to sit in an Orange hall what with pictures of the Queen and Union flags draped on the walls along with the purpose of the organisation. Thanks emerald for answering this more clearly than I could have done. Most missions in Northern Ireland are held in either Orange or Masonic Halls and given that 47% of the population are Roman Catholic they are unlikely to feel at home in such an environment. For example when Tommie Gamble and Jack Duncan were in Omagh they held a mission in Lough Muck orange hall and then Wilson Greene and David Allen in Fermanagh were in orange halls in Killadeas and Ballinamallard.
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harpic
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Post by harpic on Jun 22, 2012 14:42:26 GMT -5
I vote yes, the Friends are Protestant, even though they may deny it.
I have never seen any national/primary schools in Ireland to charge fees. Most of the Friends send their children to Protestant schools, although some of my family members claimed that they were persecuted there and some of the younger generations have sent their children to Catholic schools as a result of their own bad experiences.
Another family member who experienced 'persecution' in a Protestant national school, claimed to be much more accepted in a Catholic secondary school, just being seen as a 'Protestant', but not ill-treated because of it.
Another reason I say they are Protestant is because nearly all of them come from a Protestant background, therefore their history is Protestant and their relatives are Protestant and their culture is Protestant.
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Post by guitar on Sept 28, 2012 15:23:46 GMT -5
Seems like a lot of protesting going on on this board
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eh?
Senior Member
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Post by eh? on Sept 30, 2012 19:10:31 GMT -5
On more than one occasion I heard it stated that it was the Catholic Church which broke away from the Meetings ! Well, Duh.
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eh?
Senior Member
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Post by eh? on Sept 30, 2012 19:14:27 GMT -5
There is also a rumor doing the rounds that the 2x2 teens in Ireland are experimenting with drugs.It wouldn't surprise me at all if I found out it was true. ? ? In the US in the 70's, my school friends stayed away from both drugs and alcohol, but the 2x2 friends seemed to be involved with both. Seems our area even stopped having get together's because of the drugs/alcohol that was being brought.
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Post by irvinegrey on Nov 18, 2012 16:59:26 GMT -5
I think they're more like Wee Frees bit withoot the kirk You mean the Free Pressies? The Free Presbyterians in Ireland come under the banner of the church formed by Dr Ian Paisley and is a little different than the 'wee frees' in Scotland though both use the Westminster Confession of Faith.
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Post by Done4now on Nov 21, 2012 22:35:02 GMT -5
when I was a child, they preached that they were the original church and that the Catholics had broken off in protest of them--so if anyone was to be called Protesters it should be those Cat-o-licks.
Of course now that we know they were lying (many of the workers who said this were well aware of the brief history) it is quite obvious that this group came from the Protestant mindset. A split from Faith mission which was a split from the Presbyterians which were a split from ..... right on down the line. Typical Prot group.
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Post by irvinegrey on Nov 22, 2012 1:58:26 GMT -5
Given that the 2x2s in Northern Ireland are given the use of Orange Halls to hold their missions, there is simply no way this would be granted unless they are Protestant!
For those who do not know the Orange Order is a fully Protestant organisation who do no have members who are Roman Catholics and even until quite recently their members were forbidden to enter a Roman Cahtolic chapel - even for funerals.
This practice goes back to the beginning when both William Irvine and Edward Cooney held missions in Orange Halls and I would imagine that this alienated Roman Catholics.
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Post by Greg on Nov 22, 2012 10:47:13 GMT -5
Given that the 2x2s in Northern Ireland are given the use of Orange Halls to hold their missions, there is simply no way this would be granted unless they are Protestant! For those who do not know the Orange Order is a fully Protestant organisation who do no have members who are Roman Catholics and even until quite recently their members were forbidden to enter a Roman Cahtolic chapel - even for funerals. This practice goes back to the beginning when both William Irvine and Edward Cooney held missions in Orange Halls and I would imagine that this alienated Roman Catholics. Perhaps every non-Catholic is (viewed as) a Protestant? I think the F&W would not consider their fellowship as being Protestants.
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Post by irvinegrey on Nov 22, 2012 11:02:15 GMT -5
Given that the 2x2s in Northern Ireland are given the use of Orange Halls to hold their missions, there is simply no way this would be granted unless they are Protestant! For those who do not know the Orange Order is a fully Protestant organisation who do no have members who are Roman Catholics and even until quite recently their members were forbidden to enter a Roman Cahtolic chapel - even for funerals. This practice goes back to the beginning when both William Irvine and Edward Cooney held missions in Orange Halls and I would imagine that this alienated Roman Catholics. Perhaps every non-Catholic is (viewed as) a Protestant? I think the F&W would not consider their fellowship as being Protestants. I am afraid that every non-Catholic can be viewed as a Protestant. Only those who subscribe to the Reformed faith.
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Post by Greg on Nov 22, 2012 11:19:42 GMT -5
Perhaps every non-Catholic is (viewed as) a Protestant? I think the F&W would not consider their fellowship as being Protestants. I am afraid that every non-Catholic can be viewed as a Protestant. Only those who subscribe to the Reformed faith. Which is it? Every non-Catholic or subscribers to the Reformed faith?
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Post by irvinegrey on Nov 22, 2012 14:02:22 GMT -5
I am afraid that every non-Catholic can be viewed as a Protestant. Only those who subscribe to the Reformed faith. Which is it? Every non-Catholic or subscribers to the Reformed faith? Sorry Greg - a little typo on my part - 'every non-Catholic can NOT'!
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Post by emerald on Nov 22, 2012 16:12:02 GMT -5
Given that the 2x2s in Northern Ireland are given the use of Orange Halls to hold their missions, there is simply no way this would be granted unless they are Protestant! For those who do not know the Orange Order is a fully Protestant organisation who do no have members who are Roman Catholics and even until quite recently their members were forbidden to enter a Roman Cahtolic chapel - even for funerals. This practice goes back to the beginning when both William Irvine and Edward Cooney held missions in Orange Halls and I would imagine that this alienated Roman Catholics. Perhaps every non-Catholic is (viewed as) a Protestant? I think the F&W would not consider their fellowship as being Protestants. They do very much here in Ireland. In the South which is 98% Catholic and the North which is 48% Catholic, they are culturally very different. About 99% of the professing population hails from Protestant traditions and have not lost their cultural leanings. I think this might be why there is such disdain in many places for the Catholic church, over and above any Protestant church - it's harking back to their roots.
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Post by Greg on Nov 22, 2012 18:48:36 GMT -5
Perhaps every non-Catholic is (viewed as) a Protestant? I think the F&W would not consider their fellowship as being Protestants. They do very much here in Ireland. In the South which is 98% Catholic and the North which is 48% Catholic, they are culturally very different. About 99% of the professing population hails from Protestant traditions and have not lost their cultural leanings. I think this might be why there is such disdain in many places for the Catholic church, over and above any Protestant church - it's harking back to their roots. My thought is that the F&W way started as a protest against all ministries (even Protestants), especially the salaried and seemingly too laidback and uncaring. Another thought is that if one considers their church or fellowship to be the one true church, then they really are not protesting against others, but supposedly following God.
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Post by emerald on Nov 22, 2012 19:22:24 GMT -5
They do very much here in Ireland. In the South which is 98% Catholic and the North which is 48% Catholic, they are culturally very different. About 99% of the professing population hails from Protestant traditions and have not lost their cultural leanings. I think this might be why there is such disdain in many places for the Catholic church, over and above any Protestant church - it's harking back to their roots. My thought is that the F&W way started as a protest against all ministries (even Protestants), especially the salaried and seemingly too laidback and uncaring. Another thought is that if one considers their church or fellowship to be the one true church, then they really are not protesting against others, but supposedly following God. First you have to accept the meetings were started sometime afterthe Reformation then! ;D I know what you're saying and I expect if you put it to any one of us here in Ireland we'd agree with you, but we still see ourselves as Protestant. This in spite of some more earnest workers in the past saying we are neither Catholic nor Protestant, we are of Jesus...
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Post by irvinegrey on Dec 9, 2012 8:37:46 GMT -5
If they denied their Protestant heritage they would never be permitted to hold their missions in Orange Halls - a regular meeting place for their missions in Northern Ireland.
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Post by LITTLEPADDY on Dec 9, 2012 10:12:44 GMT -5
There are missions in Catholic Schools, GAA Centers and Community Halls managed by Boards whose Chair would be the Parish Priest.
Just showing the other side of where missions do be held
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Post by irvinegrey on Dec 9, 2012 12:12:11 GMT -5
There are missions in Catholic Schools, GAA Centers and Community Halls managed by Boards whose Chair would be the Parish Priest. Just showing the other side of where missions do be held I really would like to see the evidence for this claim and especially if these have taken place in Northern Ireland. At least when I say about missions held in Orange and Masonic Halls I can produce the evidence in the form of advertisements from newspapers.
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