|
Post by apple on Feb 16, 2011 11:51:24 GMT -5
Clearday, are you saying that those Christians in severe pain taking morphine and those Christians severely depressed taking anti-depressants are hyprocrites? *shudders*
"Many of these drugs put people into varying states of impairment and sometimes addiction"
What about the fact that for some such drugs return people from impairment and enable them to live a normal life that they otherwise could not have?
|
|
|
Post by apple on Feb 16, 2011 11:54:21 GMT -5
Is there a reason why your meeting uses grape juice bert, or is it just a tradition? It seems that the vast majority of meetings in NSW (even perhaps Australia) use wine as instructed. Wine is used at conventions on Sunday morning as well. fred, bert is probably from the uber religious America where people tend to be more conservative about alcohol (the prohibition, dry states, high age restriction).I've noticed Americans can be quite suspicious of alcohol. The bible is mainly set in the middle east so I am sure considering the harsh terrain, hot weather and scant sources of water, the Jews would have had to have wine. Some interesting bible verses on wine and beer: Proverbs 20:1 Wine is a mocker and beer a brawler; whoever is led astray by them is not wise.
Proverbs 21:17 Whoever loves pleasure will become poor; whoever loves wine and olive oil will never be rich.
Proverbs 23:20-21 20 Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, 21 for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags.
Proverbs 31:4-7 4 It is not for kings, Lemuel— it is not for kings to drink wine, not for rulers to crave beer, 5 lest they drink and forget what has been decreed, and deprive all the oppressed of their rights. 6 Let beer be for those who are perishing, wine for those who are in anguish! 7 Let them drink and forget their poverty and remember their misery no more.
Ephesians 5:18-19 18 Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery.Instead, be filled with the Spirit, 19 speaking to one another with psalms, hymns, and songs from the Spirit. Sing and make music from your heart to the Lord,
1 Timothy 3:8 8 In the same way, deacons are to be worthy of respect, sincere, not indulging in much wine, and not pursuing dishonest gain.
1 Timothy 5:23 Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses.
Titus 2:3 Likewise, teach the older women to be reverent in the way they live, not to be slanderers or addicted to much wine, but to teach what is good
|
|
|
Post by goodapollo on Feb 16, 2011 12:30:59 GMT -5
Clearday, are you saying that those Christians in severe pain taking morphine and those Christians severely depressed taking anti-depressants are hyprocrites? *shudders* "Many of these drugs put people into varying states of impairment and sometimes addiction" What about the fact that for some such drugs return people from impairment and enable them to live a normal life that they otherwise could not have? What clearday said was true. A lot of people abuse prescription drugs. In the same way, a lot of people abuse wine and beer and vodka. I don't believe clearday was generalizing here. He was merely pointing out that prescription drugs can be abused just like alcohol, yet many religious circles either ignore this fact or are completely unaware of it (unaware I highly doubt)...
|
|
|
Post by goodapollo on Feb 16, 2011 12:34:04 GMT -5
Is there a reason why your meeting uses grape juice bert, or is it just a tradition? It seems that the vast majority of meetings in NSW (even perhaps Australia) use wine as instructed. Wine is used at conventions on Sunday morning as well. fred, bert is probably from the uber religious America where people tend to be more conservative about alcohol (the prohibition, dry states, high age restriction).I've noticed Americans can be quite suspicious of alcohol. The bible is mainly set in the middle east so I am sure considering the harsh terrain, hot weather and scant sources of water, the Jews would have had to have wine. Some interesting bible verses on wine and beer: Proverbs 20:1 Wine is a mocker and beer a brawler; whoever is led astray by them is not wise.
Proverbs 21:17 Whoever loves pleasure will become poor; whoever loves wine and olive oil will never be rich.
Proverbs 23:20-21 20 Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, 21 for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags.
Proverbs 31:4-7 4 It is not for kings, Lemuel— it is not for kings to drink wine, not for rulers to crave beer, 5 lest they drink and forget what has been decreed, and deprive all the oppressed of their rights. 6 Let beer be for those who are perishing, wine for those who are in anguish! 7 Let them drink and forget their poverty and remember their misery no more.
Ephesians 5:18-19 18 Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery.Instead, be filled with the Spirit, 19 speaking to one another with psalms, hymns, and songs from the Spirit. Sing and make music from your heart to the Lord,
1 Timothy 3:8 8 In the same way, deacons are to be worthy of respect, sincere, not indulging in much wine, and not pursuing dishonest gain.
1 Timothy 5:23 Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses.
Titus 2:3 Likewise, teach the older women to be reverent in the way they live, not to be slanderers or addicted to much wine, but to teach what is goodThanks for those verses, Apple! Everything in moderation.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2011 17:03:41 GMT -5
Clearday, are you saying that those Christians in severe pain taking morphine and those Christians severely depressed taking anti-depressants are hyprocrites? *shudders* "Many of these drugs put people into varying states of impairment and sometimes addiction" What about the fact that for some such drugs return people from impairment and enable them to live a normal life that they otherwise could not have? What clearday said was true. A lot of people abuse prescription drugs. In the same way, a lot of people abuse wine and beer and vodka. I don't believe clearday was generalizing here. He was merely pointing out that prescription drugs can be abused just like alcohol, yet many religious circles either ignore this fact or are completely unaware of it (unaware I highly doubt)... Thanks goodapollo, you saved me from writing a post!
|
|
|
Post by goodapollo on Feb 16, 2011 17:53:03 GMT -5
What clearday said was true. A lot of people abuse prescription drugs. In the same way, a lot of people abuse wine and beer and vodka. I don't believe clearday was generalizing here. He was merely pointing out that prescription drugs can be abused just like alcohol, yet many religious circles either ignore this fact or are completely unaware of it (unaware I highly doubt)... Thanks goodapollo, you saved me from writing a post! No problem! I hope I wasn't putting words in your mouth, but it seemed like your viewpoint there was much the same as my own.
|
|
|
Post by What Hat on Feb 16, 2011 17:54:21 GMT -5
To be properly Biblical you should drink some wine. It should be alcoholic wine in order to do something for thine often infirmities. 1Ti 5:23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities. Our "often" infirmities? Does this mean we can drink when our spouses and kids are a pain in the &%# ? I have often wondered what "often infirmities" are. Prostate issues, perhaps? I would advise interpreting as whenever you feel you should have a glass.
|
|
|
Post by placid-void on Feb 16, 2011 20:47:16 GMT -5
"often infirmities" = "lack of humor"
|
|
|
Post by freespirit on Feb 16, 2011 21:33:27 GMT -5
Jeremiah 25:27 “Then tell them, ‘This is what the LORD Almighty, the God of Israel, says: Drink, get drunk and vomit..."
Party on, Wayne. Party on, Garth.
|
|
|
Post by pinky on Feb 17, 2011 9:19:03 GMT -5
Clearday, are you saying that those Christians in severe pain taking morphine and those Christians severely depressed taking anti-depressants are hyprocrites? *shudders* "Many of these drugs put people into varying states of impairment and sometimes addiction" What about the fact that for some such drugs return people from impairment and enable them to live a normal life that they otherwise could not have? What clearday said was true. A lot of people abuse prescription drugs. In the same way, a lot of people abuse wine and beer and vodka. I don't believe clearday was generalizing here. He was merely pointing out that prescription drugs can be abused just like alcohol, yet many religious circles either ignore this fact or are completely unaware of it (unaware I highly doubt)... People abuse food, also! That is conveniently ignored as well.
|
|
|
Post by quizzer on Feb 17, 2011 10:47:22 GMT -5
Not by me! Pass the chocolate!
|
|
|
Post by 2 on Feb 17, 2011 12:34:50 GMT -5
choices have consequenses, is there any virtue in abstaining from alcoholic beverages? (yes or no) if there is, then how can we belong to both sides of this issue? just my thoughts....
|
|