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Post by Linford Bledsoe on Sept 18, 2010 16:17:29 GMT -5
This is an area that is not clear. In our area there is no restriction placed on young people going with and marrying someone who does not "profess" as it is called. I have been told by young people that just because someone is "professing" does not mean they are a good mate. They are not always Godly in their actions. So where do you pass judgement? I don't think we have been given that privilege.
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Post by someguy on Sept 19, 2010 10:41:47 GMT -5
This is an area that is not clear. In our area there is no restriction placed on young people going with and marrying someone who does not "profess" as it is called. I have been told by young people that just because someone is "professing" does not mean they are a good mate. They are not always Godly in their actions. So where do you pass judgement? I don't think we have been given that privilege. Completely agree Lin.
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Post by ts on Sept 19, 2010 12:20:12 GMT -5
This is an area that is not clear. In our area there is no restriction placed on young people going with and marrying someone who does not "profess" as it is called. I have been told by young people that just because someone is "professing" does not mean they are a good mate. They are not always Godly in their actions. So where do you pass judgement? I don't think we have been given that privilege. Whenever the judgment is passed and the restrictions made, aren't they made by the overseers? I am glad that it does not happen in your area. But your area is a rare one. If it were happening in your area, would you speak out against it? Would you express your disagreement to the overseer? Would you tell him that you think he is being judgmental? That is all that the friends are doing. Most of the exes have tried that and have been driven out in some form or fashion. There are a lot of hard feelings as a result of the workers not being approachable, accountable and generally meek. So many of these problems would go away if the workers would simply do what is scriptural. I don't think it is at all hateful or judgmental to say that. It is just common sense. I really do want the best for God's people. Again, I am glad that you seem to have reasonable leadership in your area.
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Post by someguy on Sept 19, 2010 15:24:57 GMT -5
This is an area that is not clear. In our area there is no restriction placed on young people going with and marrying someone who does not "profess" as it is called. I have been told by young people that just because someone is "professing" does not mean they are a good mate. They are not always Godly in their actions. So where do you pass judgement? I don't think we have been given that privilege. Whenever the judgment is passed and the restrictions made, aren't they made by the overseers? I am glad that it does not happen in your area. But your area is a rare one. If it were happening in your area, would you speak out against it? Would you express your disagreement to the overseer? Would you tell him that you think he is being judgmental? That is all that the friends are doing. Most of the exes have tried that and have been driven out in some form or fashion. There are a lot of hard feelings as a result of the workers not being approachable, accountable and generally meek. So many of these problems would go away if the workers would simply do what is scriptural. I don't think it is at all hateful or judgmental to say that. It is just common sense. I really do want the best for God's people. Again, I am glad that you seem to have reasonable leadership in your area. When I got engaged to my wife...I was professing she never had been nor was she raised in this, the workers requested a meeting with me. The older ld be careful as I was not being equally yoked. I told him that she is every bit the Christian I was or he was for that matter. I said that as far as I was concerned whether or not she went to meetings was unimportant to me, but that she had a relationship with Christ was. He never mentioned it again and knew that with an attitude like that, I was on the way out.
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Post by DumSpiroSpero on Sept 19, 2010 15:59:07 GMT -5
Thanks again for the responses - it seems as though we will not arrive at a scriptural justification for this "disclipinary action"
I guess it's one thing when you can follow scripture for guidance and direction, but completely another when you need to search scripture to find a verse or two to back up a conclusion you've already arrived at.
All sounds like false, unscriptural doctrine. I think there are some passages in the bible that specifically warn us to look out for false doctrine.
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Post by emy on Sept 19, 2010 22:56:59 GMT -5
Thanks again for the responses - it seems as though we will not arrive at a scriptural justification for this "disclipinary action" I guess it's one thing when you can follow scripture for guidance and direction, but completely another when you need to search scripture to find a verse or two to back up a conclusion you've already arrived at. All sounds like false, unscriptural doctrine. I think there are some passages in the bible that specifically warn us to look out for false doctrine. There are some verses in the OT about not giving your sons and daughters to be spouses to those not the children of Israel, but not sure if you would consider that scriptural.
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Post by ts on Sept 19, 2010 23:23:12 GMT -5
Thanks again for the responses - it seems as though we will not arrive at a scriptural justification for this "disclipinary action" I guess it's one thing when you can follow scripture for guidance and direction, but completely another when you need to search scripture to find a verse or two to back up a conclusion you've already arrived at. All sounds like false, unscriptural doctrine. I think there are some passages in the bible that specifically warn us to look out for false doctrine. There are some verses in the OT about not giving your sons and daughters to be spouses to those not the children of Israel, but not sure if you would consider that scriptural. There are verses in the old testament about keeping the sabbath, also. Which parts of the old testament are valid and which aren't? Do we get to pick and choose? There were some pretty clear indications in the old testament of who was an innie and who was an outie. We are talking about Christians in the meetings and Christians outside of the meetings. Where is the inequality of yoke that the workers are warning against? What makes them unequal? Suppose there were a couple of professing people dating. One was hearty in the truth and the other was questionable. Would the workers consider them unequally yoked? If the young man could find a much heartier christian girl outside of the meetings, would it not be reasonable to date her, rather?
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Post by rational on Sept 24, 2010 0:27:12 GMT -5
The workers have preached (in our area anyway, cant speak for globally) that they dont have any rules, so how could this lady have broken a rule, when according to the leaders of the church there is no mandated rule. But you know this is wrong. There are rules. The rules were fuzzy, no doubt. But I have a feeling that when they were broken she knew she was breaking them. Nope. Just try to keep the emotional side out of your observations of what is going on. There are rules. You broke the rules. You suffer the consequences, even though those consequences may not have been fully defined. The bottom line is that if you don't like what is going on - leave.
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Post by aleda02 on Sept 24, 2010 16:19:03 GMT -5
Not to be "unequally yoked' is a message that permeates both the OT and the NT. It is predicated on the premise that God wanted a separate people , a fact that the apostle Paul wrote about in his Letter to the Ephesians 1:4 "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love..." Reading the passage relative to the subject, 2nd Corin.6:14, it is good to read the verses following, particularly vs.17 & 18 '..Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate..And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty." It seems that not to be unequally yoked applies to many fronts of our lives. It does not specifically highlight or mention marriage. Paul dealt with this issue in1 Cor 7:12 "But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If a brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away. Vs 13 says the same thing re. wife having an unbelieving husband. Vs 28 says 'But and if thou marry thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned. Nevertheless, such shall have trouble in the flesh: but I spare you.' Paul made it clear that this was his opinion and not prompted by the Lord. Personally, from the age of 11, when I made my choice, (prior to this I was a foster kid until I was sent to my 4th foster home, a professing family). I was told repeatedly that for a young professing person there were two choices for spending their lives...first, going into the work and 2nd marrying 'in the Lord' to have an open home for workers and saints, alike. For a few years, I was in the work, left due to problems of health because I could not cope with the lifestyle. I married, had a home open to workers, had a Wed. Bible study and was a deacon in our Sunday fellowship meeting. When I got married, I thought it had the blessing of God; well, blessing or not, it ended in divorce. I accept the dictate that I as long as my ex-wife is living, I will not remarry. (Not that I want to, once burned, twice shy..as the saying goes!) My sense is that the lady in Queensland, should take her issue to the workers and ask for a clarification based on an attitude of mercy and grace, from the Lord.
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Post by fred on Oct 6, 2010 5:13:22 GMT -5
Wow - thanks Hope - a beautiful testimony It took me ten years to find fellowship after leaving the 'truth', but find it I did and there is joy and love there! The joy is found in understanding God's promises to us, and not the depression of wondering if I'll be good enough. The joy in knowing that no matter how great our 'works' are, that nothing can earn salvation - it is a gift from God. I've finally worked out to whom you are referring palag1. I believe that the only justification the workers could raise is that "God is a jealous God". Now if you can tie that thought in with their actions you're a better man than I. ' If anyone should offend one of these little ones it were better that a millstone .....etc" Perhaps this is the verse that they need to hear. Or perhaps Paul's words that the believing wife may sanctify the unbelieving husband.......( that is if you subscribe to the idea that all outsiders are unbelievers).
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Post by Linford Bledsoe on Oct 6, 2010 9:28:59 GMT -5
I've seen professing couples unequally yoked. Just the fact a marriage is between two professing people doesn't mean it's an equally yoked marriage.
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Post by ronhall on Oct 6, 2010 20:11:27 GMT -5
Not to be "unequally yoked' is a message that permeates both the OT and the NT. It is predicated on the premise that God wanted a separate people , a fact that the apostle Paul wrote about in his Letter to the Ephesians 1:4 "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love..." Reading the passage relative to the subject, 2nd Corin.6:14, it is good to read the verses following, particularly vs.17 & 18 '..Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate..And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty." It seems that not to be unequally yoked applies to many fronts of our lives. It does not specifically highlight or mention marriage. Paul dealt with this issue in1 Cor 7:12 "But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If a brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away. Vs 13 says the same thing re. wife having an unbelieving husband. Vs 28 says 'But and if thou marry thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned. Nevertheless, such shall have trouble in the flesh: but I spare you.' Paul made it clear that this was his opinion and not prompted by the Lord. Personally, from the age of 11, when I made my choice, (prior to this I was a foster kid until I was sent to my 4th foster home, a professing family). I was told repeatedly that for a young professing person there were two choices for spending their lives...first, going into the work and 2nd marrying 'in the Lord' to have an open home for workers and saints, alike. For a few years, I was in the work, left due to problems of health because I could not cope with the lifestyle. I married, had a home open to workers, had a Wed. Bible study and was a deacon in our Sunday fellowship meeting. When I got married, I thought it had the blessing of God; well, blessing or not, it ended in divorce. I accept the dictate that I as long as my ex-wife is living, I will not remarry. (Not that I want to, once burned, twice shy..as the saying goes!) My sense is that the lady in Queensland, should take her issue to the workers and ask for a clarification based on an attitude of mercy and grace, from the Lord. "I was told repeatedly that for a young professing person there were two choices for spending their lives...first, going into the work and 2nd marrying 'in the Lord' to have an open home for workers and saints, alike." Obviously there is a third acceptable choice within the F&W fellowship and that is to remain a single professing person. Remaining in this status has not been promoted, especially for the males. For the females it isn't quite the issue because the ratio of males to females is significantly less than one. As things stand now, being single, especially as a single male, puts a major crimp on one's social status within the group, unless there are several in the vicinity in the same situation. Even worse is a single male with dependents, i.e., children. Seldom are they included as a family in social gatherings. The reason is that traditionally the wife is the homemaker. As such she usually is responsible for the food preparation, child rearing and nurturing and social planning. It is easy for her to associate closely with her female peers, even the single ones, but not so convenient to invite a single male. The notion of a possible "appearance of evil" clouds such a relationship. It might seem easy to say, well just get over your "hang-ups" and have them over. Saying it is one thing, doing it is another, unfortunately.
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Post by DumSpiroSpero on Oct 8, 2010 0:41:33 GMT -5
My sense is that the lady in Queensland, should take her issue to the workers and ask for a clarification based on an attitude of mercy and grace, from the Lord. Is that an attitude of mercy and grace toward the workers? There are a few issues here: 1. No apparent scriptural basis to the rule 2. Regional variations to the rule. The lady's experience from other examples in Qld, NSW, Canada etc led her to understand that whilst not ideal, her marrying a man who is not professing was not against the rules, and the sanctions were therefore completely unexpected 3. The effect on the husband, and the polarising effect on others close to her have led her to deeper study of the scripture and more questions regarding the legitimacy of much of the doctrine and many of the rules of the workers. The butterfly effect of this inconsistency may be widespread.
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Post by CherieKropp on Oct 8, 2010 16:39:10 GMT -5
Reminds me of the motto: "United we stand, Divided we fall..."
Is the "handwriting on the wall"--what we currently refer to as the internet?
WIKI: "United we stand, Divided we fall" is a phrase that has been used in mottos, from nations and states to songs. The basic concept is that unless the people are united, it is easy to destroy them. This is a counter to the maxim: divide and rule.
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Post by ariandgabe on Jan 26, 2011 20:19:52 GMT -5
In theory if someone is truly passionate about their faith - it consumes them (I'm talking about faith in God, not just the habit of going to church/meeting). As you search for deeper meaning you want to be able to discuss, debate, live it out. If you are with someone who is not like minded there is going to be a clash.. and misunderstanding. I was engaged and we broke off the engagement because we just couldn't connect spiritually. I loved him and everything else was great, but him not being able to understand and connect with me on something this important really left a hole in the r'ship. Now... that said... I think its good to advise people looking for a partner to pick someone like minded. However if someone has already married someone who is not a believer, then the command say - remain as you are (married) and show by your good deeds and words that you are a christian that they might also believe. Once the marriage is in place the church needs to stop its "in theory" talk and stand behind their member. This woman already is at odds with her husband spiritually she needs the church to support her and spiritually provide support to her that he husband is not able to do yet. Also to pray with her that he has an encounter with God so that they can share in the Joy of life with the Lord together. the church should be a loving, open minded, welcoming place for him - by default because she is part of them = she is a "member" and no one harms their own body but takes care of it. Giving advice about not being unequally yoked is all very well BEFORE the marriage, but afterwards not so much. We need to not let legalism get in the way of making loving, good choices with what we have. Also - the unequally yoked can be about business partners too - a godly business partner being yoked with someone whose tendency it is to cheat. the godly one may get dragged into that by joining with someone whose idea of doing business is less straight shooting. Wow, what an answer. Amen to that.
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Post by ariandgabe on Jan 26, 2011 20:34:21 GMT -5
Not to be "unequally yoked' is a message that permeates both the OT and the NT. It is predicated on the premise that God wanted a separate people , a fact that the apostle Paul wrote about in his Letter to the Ephesians 1:4 "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love..." Reading the passage relative to the subject, 2nd Corin.6:14, it is good to read the verses following, particularly vs.17 & 18 '..Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate..And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty." It seems that not to be unequally yoked applies to many fronts of our lives. It does not specifically highlight or mention marriage. Paul dealt with this issue in1 Cor 7:12 "But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If a brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away. Vs 13 says the same thing re. wife having an unbelieving husband. Vs 28 says 'But and if thou marry thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned. Nevertheless, such shall have trouble in the flesh: but I spare you.' Paul made it clear that this was his opinion and not prompted by the Lord. Personally, from the age of 11, when I made my choice, (prior to this I was a foster kid until I was sent to my 4th foster home, a professing family). I was told repeatedly that for a young professing person there were two choices for spending their lives...first, going into the work and 2nd marrying 'in the Lord' to have an open home for workers and saints, alike. For a few years, I was in the work, left due to problems of health because I could not cope with the lifestyle. I married, had a home open to workers, had a Wed. Bible study and was a deacon in our Sunday fellowship meeting. When I got married, I thought it had the blessing of God; well, blessing or not, it ended in divorce. I accept the dictate that I as long as my ex-wife is living, I will not remarry. (Not that I want to, once burned, twice shy..as the saying goes!) My sense is that the lady in Queensland, should take her issue to the workers and ask for a clarification based on an attitude of mercy and grace, from the Lord. Wow, another good response, Biblical too. Was it or is it hard not to re-marry? Life is hard as it is, especially when one spouce is like an anchor slowing you down from running the race. I know... may God help us.
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