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Post by bandtroll on Jul 5, 2009 21:49:13 GMT -5
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Post by What Hat on Jul 5, 2009 22:20:53 GMT -5
Here is just a suggestion, and it's offered for consideration. I don't know all the factors, but imagine reading the following in a week or two.
Today, we, [names of headworkers], have requested a complete and full internal investigation of the Michigan incident, to be completed by [someone at arm's length, perhaps a lawyer who is in the fellowship, or even a worker with appropriate experience]. The report will be reviewed by the ministry and then released to everyone involved, especially those who were falsely accused.
I think if I read or heard something like that, it would make me sleep easier. I find many aspects of the affair puzzling to say the least.
The air needs to be cleared of suspicion. Such a report may be damaging, but not issuing a report would be more damaging.
Regarding the lawsuit, I personally don't like the sound of brother suing brother. I really hope it doesn't take anything like that to clear the air.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2009 23:56:57 GMT -5
Nice bit of idealism what, I'm with you on that too.
We all know the standard procedure though: hunker down, put out the party line to the friends who will spread your story, then let it all blow over. Your reputation is intact within the fellowship since they all sympathize with you, reputation in tatters with all other onlookers. I've seen this played out many times. Will this time be different? We can always hope but so far there is no indication of such. I think they will ride it out, law suits or not.
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Post by buzzybee on Jul 6, 2009 11:09:49 GMT -5
Why did the twins report allegation in the first place. What did they have to gain. We're they coerced.....It just doesn't make since.
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Post by CherieKropp on Jul 6, 2009 12:55:19 GMT -5
Who vs who?
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Post by bandtroll on Jul 6, 2009 13:23:24 GMT -5
Should he 200 who had false accusations made against them file a civil suit against those who made the false accusations.
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Post by ilylo on Jul 6, 2009 13:26:45 GMT -5
Some insist that the facts of this case do not need to see the light of day. If that is to be the case, that we should not know the details, then on what basis are we to answer a poll like this?
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Post by CherieKropp on Jul 6, 2009 13:53:23 GMT -5
Should he 200 who had false accusations made against them file a civil suit against those who made the false accusations. How can you get blood out of a turnip? Aren't the twins indigent?
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Post by What Hat on Jul 6, 2009 15:44:10 GMT -5
The questions don't surround the twins so much but how so many were accused. I presume the criminal investigation and trial has ended, but if so, that doesn't preclude civil action potentially against other parties who were involved in the perjury. I personally have no knowledge or basis of knowing whether there are sufficient grounds for such a case. But I don't see how anyone could think that wrongdoing began and ended with the twins.
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Post by buzzybee on Jul 6, 2009 16:12:39 GMT -5
We had a family come to our convention one time and their were two sets of adopted russian twins. They sat right beside me. One set was girls(older), the other set was boys. Is this the family?
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Post by sharon on Jul 6, 2009 16:41:28 GMT -5
I don't like lawsuits either for really no one wins anything in the long run...some may get ahead of the other side, but as for winning there isn't anything to win.
I'm more fearful that IF a civil lawsuit was filed, that the poor twins would be the ones to have to fall harder! UNLESS names were named and that could get sticky..
I did understand that there was a lawsuit int he holding and that it would go forth if the twins admitted lying etc. So I guess that may still be there, I'm not sure....that just came to me from a friend who knows someone very well in the mess! And according to that person, the twins wouldn't necessarily be named!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2009 16:58:45 GMT -5
Should he 200 who had false accusations made against them file a civil suit against those who made the false accusations. How can you get blood out of a turnip? Aren't the twins indigent? Who says something like this has to be about money? I think most people just want the truth......and the truth could come out in a civil law suit. Nathan is right, it's nigh impossible for a couple of teenagers to come up with 200 names for accusations. If I were one of the acccused, I would be tempted to sue just to get to the truth of the naming incident, perhaps uncovering the real culprits here, and money wouldn't be the issue.
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Post by sharon on Jul 6, 2009 17:00:28 GMT -5
Clearday, you do have a point, though I strongly suspect the love of money was behind it or perhaps the zeal to get ahead of another worker on the CSA issues!
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Post by buzzybee on Jul 6, 2009 19:55:59 GMT -5
i agree. It seems that since two sisters are out of the work over it, there are veryyyyyyy strong feelings. I wonder how they feel now that they know it was a lie.
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Post by What Hat on Jul 6, 2009 21:06:07 GMT -5
Clearday, you do have a point, though I strongly suspect the love of money was behind it or perhaps the zeal to get ahead of another worker on the CSA issues! How do you see the "love of money" coming into it, Sharon? Just curious.
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Post by bandtroll on Jul 6, 2009 21:30:17 GMT -5
What??
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Post by What Hat on Jul 6, 2009 21:36:41 GMT -5
i agree. It seems that since two sisters are out of the work over it, there are veryyyyyyy strong feelings. I wonder how they feel now that they know it was a lie. One of the court documents loaded by 'whiteknight' is a restraining order that the workers have no contact with defendant ****, dated March 13, 2009. It states as follows: 1. **** has been charged with false report of a felony contrary to MCL 750.411(A)(1)(B), based on multiple allegations of sexual assault and child pornography. 2. During the time the Defendant was making these allegations, she was aided and abetted by ****, ****, and associated ministers. This does create a suspicion, and I wonder what is all behind it.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2009 0:29:40 GMT -5
I have been given to understand that the number of 200 accused that is being bandied about here has been challenged for its accuracy. I would be interested to know if anyone has an official source for the number.
There is evidence though that there were at least 100. That's still a lot but I think 100 names is within the realm of two teenagers to come up with on their own, depending on their precociousness.
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Post by sharon on Jul 7, 2009 2:06:43 GMT -5
what! Sometimes I have trouble getting through my head what the Bible means when it says "The love of money is the root of ALL evil." What I mean sometimes it's the invisible motives that perhaps are the love of money....and is not always discernable to the observer!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2009 7:39:01 GMT -5
One translation says "the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil"......which makes more sense to me.
You're certainly right though Sharon, when some evil is being done, the perpetrator goes to great lengths to conceal much, particularly the motive.
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Post by What Hat on Jul 7, 2009 8:08:39 GMT -5
I have been given to understand that the number of 200 accused that is being bandied about here has been challenged for its accuracy. I would be interested to know if anyone has an official source for the number. There is evidence though that there were at least 100. That's still a lot but I think 100 names is within the realm of two teenagers to come up with on their own, depending on their precociousness. The whole thing is very fuzzy. We don't know what happened during the investigation. We do know that the investigating officer(s) did not talk only to these girls. And we also know stuff came out of the woodwork that happened many years ago and involving friends in areas removed from Michigan. Also, there were some really over the top absurd allegations made. Were the "names" the result of direct oral interviews of the twins, or the result of interviews during the entire investigation? Or was written material provided, and if that is the case, did other people help write it? What was the role of the workers? What was the role of the anti-movement web site people? It isn't just a question of the number of names, but what came out and how it came out. My best guess is that the investigators were lead to think they had a multi-victim multi-offender abuse situation on their hands, and then came to realize that not only were the girls fabricating stories, but suspected they were being manipulated in some way. First suspicion would then fall upon the sister workers who helped them report. In fact, it is now clear from court documents that the prosecutor's office thought the workers were "aiding and abetting" in the perjury.
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Post by bandtroll on Jul 7, 2009 8:50:20 GMT -5
a restraining order that the workers have no contact with defendant ****, A restraining order can be requested by individuals, not just by the court, and would list the reasons the requester wanted the order. How to get a restraining order (in CT)
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Post by bandtroll on Jul 7, 2009 9:00:48 GMT -5
The whole thing is very fuzzy. We don't know what happened during the investigation. We do know that the investigating officer(s) did not talk only to these girls. And we also know stuff came out of the woodwork that happened many years ago and involving friends in areas removed from Michigan. Also, there were some really over the top absurd allegations made. Were the "names" the result of direct oral interviews of the twins, or the result of interviews during the entire investigation? Or was written material provided, and if that is the case, did other people help write it? What was the role of the workers? What was the role of the anti-movement web site people? It isn't just a question of the number of names, but what came out and how it came out. My best guess is that the investigators were lead to think they had a multi-victim multi-offender abuse situation on their hands, and then came to realize that not only were the girls fabricating stories, but suspected they were being manipulated in some way. First suspicion would then fall upon the sister workers who helped them report. In fact, it is now clear from court documents that the prosecutor's office thought the workers were "aiding and abetting" in the perjury. I thought I had read somewhere on the TMB where someone had posted that the MI head worker had "gotten his hands slapped" for mis-handling something that should have gotten reported to the authorities sooner (but I haven't been able to find it again). So is it possible that this was my mis-handled also? I wouldn't go so far as saying it was "clear from court documents that the prosecutor's office," as a whole lot of people could get a restraining order against their mother-inlaw. ;D
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Post by jhjmr on Jul 7, 2009 9:40:50 GMT -5
In court documents it clearly states that the two ex workers and ASSOCIATED MINSTERS were aiding and abetting. Not that they thought they were. Nothing could be stated stronger nor clearer as to what the prosecutor thought of the interference.
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Post by sharon on Jul 7, 2009 9:46:16 GMT -5
In court documents it clearly states that the two ex workers and ASSOCIATED MINSTERS were aiding and abetting. Not that they thought they were. Nothing could be stated stronger nor clearer as to what the prosecutor thought of the interference. This certainly boggles the average mind as to understand the reason(s) behind such aiding and abetting! I wonder if there's been any response from the "associated ministers" or have they just moved from the very beginning to make the 2 ex sister workers the fall guys?
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Post by bandtroll on Jul 7, 2009 9:47:24 GMT -5
In court documents it clearly states that the two ex workers and ASSOCIATED MINSTERS were aiding and abetting. Not that they thought they were. Nothing could be stated stronger nor clearer as to what the prosecutor thought of the interference. Again we disagree.
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Post by jhjmr on Jul 7, 2009 9:51:56 GMT -5
The associated ministers were the overseer and two men workers that kept coming to the court hearings I am sure. They were involved very much as the two ex workers. There has never been any reply as to what the overseer has to say or anyone else about such a disgrace.
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Post by jhjmr on Jul 7, 2009 9:53:52 GMT -5
Bandtroll, no one cares what you disagree on. Court documents do NOT lie, and excuses or doubts get you absolutely nothing. So have a real party disagreeing on everything and anything.
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