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Post by Jason Storebo on Apr 17, 2009 21:14:46 GMT -5
Your points are well taken. I do understand that some people in various cults, denominations, sects...& what have you, have sometimes been treated badly or worse (Jonestown). Certainly this applies to children...for example the Fundamentalist Church of Latter day Saints. Having said that, I still stand by my basic point. Scientology works just fine for some, so does the JWs, & 2x2ism for others.
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Post by pianoman on Apr 18, 2009 0:32:51 GMT -5
Jasonstorebo, you and Sharon have good points, and Sharon is correct in saying that we need to let these people know we are behind them and hope that their suffering ends.
This is about them, not to be sidetracked onto what works and what doesn't...................P-man
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White Knight
Senior Member
THE SHADOW KNOWS. In the shadow of the highest is a refuge from all fear.
Posts: 510
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Post by White Knight on Apr 19, 2009 22:06:39 GMT -5
You know, Scott, those 2 sister workers says that want people to feel free to keep in touch, but then turn around and ask that you leave their names off the email. Kind of saying, I want to help, but please don't expect it of me! JMO Sharon, What the email said was: If you would like to contact us, we would love to keep in touch. Feel free to post our email, but please leave our names off of it.They mentioned that if YOU would like to contact us....meaning WINGS.... Kind of interesting that everyone is assuming that the two sister workers who sent this email are from Michigan..... Scott Scott we'll cut the chase here were/was the letter from MI and or was it written by the former sister workers that were helping the twins? And if the ones that wrote the letter were connected to the case in helping them, as you know and must admit the timing of it all is/was kind of ironic...
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White Knight
Senior Member
THE SHADOW KNOWS. In the shadow of the highest is a refuge from all fear.
Posts: 510
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Post by White Knight on Apr 19, 2009 22:39:25 GMT -5
To whom it may concern; We now know a law firm from the Travers City has been hired and reading this board, we are sure you’ll enjoy the reading throughout all the threads, hopefully you can/will inform your clients of their wrong doings that this mess can truly be cleared up. I’m only wondering out loud, who’s going to pay for there, or who is paying for their fees? I suppose it’s none of my business as long as the blinders are kept on everyone… So WHAT Traverse City law firm is monitoring TMB? So... you want to call my bluff a, how about; Calcrett, Rogers and Vorjnton Law firm. Do feel free to check it out. Not sure if the spelling is correct? Then tell us if it exists or not.
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Post by Scott Ross on Apr 19, 2009 22:59:25 GMT -5
Scott we'll cut the chase here were/was the letter from MI and or was it written by the former sister workers that were helping the twins? And if the ones that wrote the letter were connected to the case in helping them, as you know and must admit the timing of it all is/was kind of ironic...
Since the letter writer's asked not to be identified I will decline to mention who they were. They timing isn't really ironic as that was the time period that several workers were in contact with Wings, and they were from several states and other countries as well. The Michigan situation was not the only issue that WINGS was notified about during that time frame. As far as the spelling of the law firm you mentioned, it is probably: Calcutt, Rogers & Boynton If anyone wishes to contact them, here is their web page: crblawfirm.com/Scott
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White Knight
Senior Member
THE SHADOW KNOWS. In the shadow of the highest is a refuge from all fear.
Posts: 510
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Post by White Knight on Apr 19, 2009 23:02:02 GMT -5
What happened to the praise for the sister workers, who wrote the letter to Wings. Weren't they at the root of this? I think EVERYONE got 'suckered-in' by the twins lies. A bare-bone's reality in today's society is that the mere hint of any sexual impropriety prompts an instantaneous all-consuming offensive -- whether just-or-unjust. The mere suspicion of any sexual misconduct, especially with children, immediately pegs the accused as 'deviantly GUILTY' even before the evidence gathering process has begun. As for any tidbits that a LAW firm is gathering information from TMB -- HA. We've seen posts of tales of the IRS, the Michigan State police, ... monitoring TMB in the last year-and-a-half for scintillating information on the 'TRUTH.' Enough said. Not everyone just those who had blinders on or wanted a good ride/ or thought they were onto something big because there were too many high profile names leading it.... by the way are you male or female as you never stated on your profile? Just curios and your questions/comments are also rather precarious. Or maybe there’s been some faults pretence going on here by others?
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White Knight
Senior Member
THE SHADOW KNOWS. In the shadow of the highest is a refuge from all fear.
Posts: 510
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Post by White Knight on Apr 19, 2009 23:06:03 GMT -5
As far as the spelling of the law firm you mentioned, it is probably: Calcutt, Rogers & Boynton If anyone wishes to contact them, here is their web page: crblawfirm.com/Scott [/quote] Thank You.
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White Knight
Senior Member
THE SHADOW KNOWS. In the shadow of the highest is a refuge from all fear.
Posts: 510
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Post by White Knight on Apr 19, 2009 23:16:09 GMT -5
Scott we'll cut the chase here were/was the letter from MI and or was it written by the former sister workers that were helping the twins? And if the ones that wrote the letter were connected to the case in helping them, as you know and must admit the timing of it all is/was kind of ironic...
Since the letter writer's asked not to be identified I will decline to mention who they were. They timing isn't really ironic as that was the time period that several workers were in contact with Wings, and they were from several states and other countries as well. The Michigan situation was not the only issue that WINGS was notified about during that time frame. Scott OK so were they from MI or not?
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White Knight
Senior Member
THE SHADOW KNOWS. In the shadow of the highest is a refuge from all fear.
Posts: 510
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Post by White Knight on Apr 19, 2009 23:19:48 GMT -5
I'm only asking you here because you're not responding to my calls?
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White Knight
Senior Member
THE SHADOW KNOWS. In the shadow of the highest is a refuge from all fear.
Posts: 510
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Post by White Knight on Apr 19, 2009 23:21:10 GMT -5
Good night..
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Post by lin on Apr 20, 2009 7:41:28 GMT -5
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Post by pianoman on Apr 20, 2009 22:59:17 GMT -5
Speaking of being off track, I wonder how this will pan out, with all involved being in the same "boat" so to speak, All going to meetings?
If this overseer gets burned by the law, will he recant, and step down?
NO winners here folks, just a bunch of folks caught in a real mess. I hope it will shed some light on the way things need to be done in the future.
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Post by lin on Apr 21, 2009 6:46:40 GMT -5
How will it shed light on way things should be done? The allegations were lies and some of those that were involved in orchestrating the lies are free from any guilt. I believe it will happen again only in another place.
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Post by Sharon on Apr 21, 2009 9:29:01 GMT -5
How will it shed light on way things should be done? The allegations were lies and some of those that were involved in orchestrating the lies are free from any guilt. I believe it will happen again only in another place. Lin, I'm not following you here....how can those who were involved in orchestrating the lies being free from any guilt? Would not having just reported the allegations to the authorities and let them work it out as they are trained to do been much better then to go into all kinds of extrenous details and behaviors that have hurt more then it ever could have helped? The continuing of rumors and gossips against the family is counted as being free of guilty? I do not understand, I'm sorry!
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Post by lin on Apr 21, 2009 11:28:17 GMT -5
I don't expect you to understand,but the people that encouraged the lies understand. There are so many details to this story that haven't been told, but will be brought out into the open.
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Post by lin on Apr 21, 2009 12:54:18 GMT -5
The church is going on a lot of false information. I don't know if that brings fair judgement on anyones part. I don't see how there could be a pass on it all.
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Post by Sharon on Apr 21, 2009 18:40:08 GMT -5
You know in legal issues most "decisions" made by the courts follow what has already been precedented.......so in this case it will work in reverse to what the Catholic Church went through with so much CSA coverup....the CC ended up having to pay out a lot of "civil lawsuit" monies.....I think the MI workers are apt to be hit pretty hard before this is all said and done and likely some of the friends who have been so "mobile" in the whole mess. We know that the poor family involved has already incurred such expenses that it is unreal besides all the sorrow and sadness....I don't think the elderly grandparents deserved it one bit.....regardless! There was NO need for them to have been done as they've been done, gossiped and rumored against by the very people who they'd welcomed in their home week after week, month after month, year after year? Maybe I have a somewhat screwed understanding what "loyalty" means and what love and mercy means among Christians....
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Post by bandtroll on Apr 21, 2009 19:25:57 GMT -5
I don't expect you to understand,but the people that encouraged the lies understand. There are so many details to this story that haven't been told, but will be brought out into the open. And how do we know that 'people' encouraged them to lie? To do that, 'the people' would have had to have had proof that these were in fact lies at the time.
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Post by bandtroll on Apr 21, 2009 19:28:39 GMT -5
Since the letter writer's asked not to be identified I will decline to mention who they were. OK so were they from MI or not? Made me think of all the times you see someone on live TV tell someone "... Just between you and me ..." ;D
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Pink
Senior Member
Posts: 411
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Post by Pink on Apr 21, 2009 22:05:02 GMT -5
The church is going on a lot of false information. I don't know if that brings fair judgement on anyones part. I don't see how there could be a pass on it all. Lin, you are as one who has a lynch mob mentality.........friends will turn on a friend if the crowd is big and vocal enough..........that doesn't excuse the ones who participated.........no matter how great the dream team they had for their attorney..........do you think OJ was guilty? Let's just say your group of friends were only going on false accusations by someone in their group............does that exclude them from their hateful and unremorseful attitudes in what that did? NO! GROW UP!!!! I can definitely believe you were once a worker........your mentality is showing. with love and peace, Pink
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Post by lin on Apr 22, 2009 5:05:08 GMT -5
Pink, It seems you misunderstand what I'm saying. No, nobody should be excluded from hateful and unremorseful attitudes. The truth of this situation is a lot of people have been hurt and still are suffering hurt. Lists have been provided that caused some to be accused to the point that it has cost them to defend themselves. It's those that love to spread lies that need to grow up.
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Post by pianoman on Apr 22, 2009 7:40:48 GMT -5
Nathan, To quote you: "If the accusers found out to be liars they should PAY all the lawyers legal fees, damages to the victims, and spend times in jail"
BINGO. Now what if some accusers are workers? Who will pay?
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Post by Sharon on Apr 22, 2009 7:51:39 GMT -5
Nathan, To quote you: "If the accusers found out to be liars they should PAY all the lawyers legal fees, damages to the victims, and spend times in jail" BINGO. Now what if some accusers are workers? Who will pay? Of course, the friends will "help out"....but then the question may have to be asked "Do you support the workers?" Being a generic question, it really defies being able to reason or take sides in accordance to who is the least wrong, I suppose!
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Post by pianoman on Apr 22, 2009 8:17:28 GMT -5
I really don't like detracting from the Michigan Case, but here it my whole point, in regards to everything about this board and other thoughts.
Here, in this "way" called the "truth" you have two opposing sides. One is right, and one is wrong.
That is a fact.
Since that is a fact, and the sides remain fixed, one is exulted, and the other is condemned.
Both sides may remain in meetings, but will both sides be "saved" in eternity?
Since that can not be possible, some of the F&W's are condemned and some are not.
Since that is true, if both sides remain fixed, then are they all "God's true children in His true way"?
If that is so, than anyone that chooses to take the name "Christian" can be "saved", not only just the F&W's.
I don't think that just anyone that claims to be a "Christian", either the F&W's or anywhere else, makes them such.
I believe that only those that have a working relationship with God, are His "true people".
Those that have been "removed" from the 2x2s and those that have never been in the 2x2s are equal in that respect.
So much for being "the only way" and the "truth".
Truth is something that lives within us, and people, both in the 2x2 way and out, have equal opportunity to serve God.
I know that this kind of thinking will get someones panties in a bunch, but anyone that believes in God that can argue with this, I am afraid, is deluded.
Prove me wrong, (Nathan, don't even go there) anyone else.............................Pianoman
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Post by pianoman on Apr 22, 2009 8:18:58 GMT -5
This is the case of the Michigan Abuse Case, and it's follow up. Let us not loose site of that.
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Post by pianoman on Apr 22, 2009 9:04:17 GMT -5
Nathan, I may come to really like you someday. Just not today!!!.....(j/k)....................P-man
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Post by jhjmr on Apr 22, 2009 13:00:27 GMT -5
How much of the records that will be made public is something that will have to waited out and to see what the prosecutor will release. But the false allegations are well known by many, read by many, passed around to many and when they were turned in to the police, you would have to be on crack to think it could be true. There are things that are so far out in left field it is actually a laugh. Impossible things to ever happen or be true. Now, we want to claim that the twins were the ones that made up the lies, but, the twins were taken to the police, because they do not drive, for every single allegation and we all know that these allegations was read by the ones taking the girls to the police. How about the two ex-sister workers. Also, they were workers for quite some time while allegations were being turned in to the police and does anyone want to believe for a minute that the overseer didn't know what these allegations were? He was at all the hearings with the two workers and usually two men workers also. How rediculous that those false allegations were turned in when they knew who was on the list, many many workers and friends that were impossible to partake of what they were accused of. Can the overseer, 4 other workers, many friends all be blinded to such absolute lies to be in such a need to try and destroy innocent people? That is something I would love to have explained. Letters written by the overseer that were nasty was passed around to the friends. It was as if he was desperate to brag about how nasty he could be to try and find justice in what was taking place and to make sure people he had trumped on would be destroyed. He wanted everyone under his control to contribute to the massacere of so called friends of truth. People that are desperate go to desperate measures. But, is he still not in control of Mi. and making decision for the people? Is he still not over many many friends which are apt to become victims also? Still no one will step up to the plate and even investigate just what happened and why. Or is everyone afraid that they will be a victim also? Even though it is well known how terrible this whole event has been is one person so powerful that justice and love can't be shown? How can one person become so intimidating? How can someone who claims they are serving God and want to help others , be so blinded into thinking if he says that is the way it is, you MUST agree? Is it a lack of care? Is it skeletons in their own closets thatthey are afraid might be shown? Is it the known knowledge that things are wrong and it is better to hide it that to face it? Is it that if it was investigated the whole truth would be shaken? Is it possible that there would be no excuses as to let this continue for so long and destroy so many people? The truth never hurt anyone but deceit and lies will destroy everyone. One rotten apple left in the basket will eventually spoil the whole basket. Just how much is known among the other people that is covered up? How are so many intimdated? No matter how hard you try, how many things you do, how many excuses you make, it will NEVER NEVER make one right! Is God going to move someone to do something or is it he doesn't recoginize the whole group? The twins were found incompetent for lying, so is everyone else in the same boat? You'd really wonder???
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Post by jhjmr on Apr 22, 2009 13:12:21 GMT -5
Lin, two imcompetent girls made a bunch of accusations, That is the false information that the church is going on. But, if you haven't heard, the overseer said, those girls don't lie and everyone was led to believe everything. From abuse to rape to murder! Yes, all three things were accused. Is the whole church imcompetent? Perhaps they could find room at the forensic center for a whole lot of people to say the least. You'd have to be incompetent to swallow the garbage that was claimed to have happened. There are absolutely no excuse, misunderstanding or convincing to believe these allegations. You could make a real sick science fiction movie if anyone was that hard up to watch it!! And Nathan, I agree, a thorough investigation! Do you know anyone interested in doing that? Perhaps you could let others know that this is something of a importance. If not in friendly manner, perhaps hit the pocket book manner!!
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