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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2009 2:06:01 GMT -5
What does it do? For me personally it means nothing. if I heard it being discussed in a meeting of any kind I would have to walk out because it has nothing to do with my service to God. This is exactly how I feel and I just don't see the point anymore in discussing about a man. This reaction is the official 2x2 response as more and more irrefutable information has surfaced about 'the organizational beginning'-- but on the other hand, the denial of the historical realities about this 2x2 'only true way of God', and the refusal to accept very clearly proven facts on the subject do say something about the basic honesty in the 2x2 mindset.
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Post by kiwi on Feb 10, 2009 2:36:50 GMT -5
This is exactly how I feel and I just don't see the point anymore in discussing about a man. This reaction is the official 2x2 response as more and more irrefutable information has surfaced about 'the organizational beginning'-- but on the other hand, the denial of the historical realities about this 2x2 'only true way of God', and the refusal to accept very clearly proven facts on the subject do say something about the basic honesty in the 2x2 mindset. Go and blah in someones ears who cares
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Post by todd on Feb 10, 2009 3:03:14 GMT -5
~~~ Very nice post, todd. My vote is... Scenario 1. God prepared the hearts of quite a few men, and delivered each one of them his own special little part of his instructions, so that no single one of them could claim to have created it, but that when all put together was exactly how God had intended for his church to be serving him. Thanks for your vote Nathan. So far the voting has wildly swung towards 'scenario 1' I will check the results again once the voting tally has doubled
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2009 3:07:13 GMT -5
Go and blah in someones ears who cares This well known reaction to 'avoid the light' is so amazingly 2x2 typical (and so clearly exemplified on this board)-- You may not care, however there ARE people who do care, and who do have an honest desire to know the wondrous truth, with the promise to set us free. Edgar John 3:19-21 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. [20] For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. [21] But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
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Post by lamebeaver on Feb 10, 2009 9:30:06 GMT -5
This reaction is the official 2x2 response as more and more irrefutable information has surfaced about 'the organizational beginning'-- but on the other hand, the denial of the historical realities about this 2x2 'only true way of God', and the refusal to accept very clearly proven facts on the subject do say something about the basic honesty in the 2x2 mindset. Go and blah in someones ears who cares Edgar was in work 16 yrs & I don't know how long he was elder but I would definetly say he has a say GO EDGAR GO
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2009 11:37:22 GMT -5
What does it do? For me personally it means nothing. if I heard it being discussed in a meeting of any kind I would have to walk out because it has nothing to do with my service to God. This is exactly how I feel and I just don't see the point anymore in discussing about a man. Better to discuss a system, eh ? As far as I understand it the son of Man was also a man !
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Post by selah on Feb 10, 2009 11:44:31 GMT -5
Thanks for the great laughs Alvin! ;D
Blessings, Linda
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Post by Happy Feet on Feb 10, 2009 21:04:32 GMT -5
Show me where the Waldensian church split? ~~~ Compare the Vaudois/Waldensians early teachings and today... You can tell today's Waldensians have departed from their forefathers's belief, teachings.So where is the split? What churches split off them?
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Post by Happy Feet on Feb 11, 2009 1:55:52 GMT -5
So where is the split? What churches split off them? ~~ Sorrry, I don't have a statistic because it wasn't my top priority list. I will keep this in mind and when I find them I post it on here for you.I am not asking for any statistics, I am asking for the names or a name of those who have split off the Waldensian church as you stated has happened? Nathan wrote: The Vaudois/Waldensians split many directions in the 17th-18th century. Some have joined the Reformation movement... Some joined the Catholic Church... and others started their own denomination." If you make a statement it is helpful to be able to back it up. Nothing to do with it being a priority but it is confirming the statement you made. It was important for you to be able to make the statement but then it suddenly appears to not have been a priority after I asked you to back it up. Was it just a guess or assumption on your part?
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Post by kiwi on Feb 11, 2009 4:05:45 GMT -5
Go and blah in someones ears who cares This well known reaction to 'avoid the light' is so amazingly 2x2 typical (and so clearly exemplified on this board)-- You may not care, however there ARE people who do care, and who do have an honest desire to know the wondrous truth, with the promise to set us free. Edgar John 3:19-21 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. [20] For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. [21] But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. Of course it is the same reation what do you expect with the biased speal that you write?
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Post by kiwi on Feb 11, 2009 4:07:15 GMT -5
Go and blah in someones ears who cares Edgar was in work 16 yrs & I don't know how long he was elder but I would definetly say he has a say GO EDGAR GOI don't care if Edgar had been the pope for 2000 years, it is still speal.
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Post by kiwi on Feb 11, 2009 4:08:50 GMT -5
This is exactly how I feel and I just don't see the point anymore in discussing about a man. Better to discuss a system, eh ? As far as I understand it the son of Man was also a man ! What? are you saying the man William was a man like Jesus?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2009 4:27:56 GMT -5
This well known reaction to 'avoid the light' is so amazingly 2x2 typical (and so clearly exemplified on this board)-- You may not care, however there ARE people who do care, and who do have an honest desire to know the wondrous truth, with the promise to set us free. Edgar John 3:19-21 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. [20] For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. [21] But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. Of course it is the same reation what do you expect with the biased speal that you write? To answer your question, I made it clear in my post that this is the kind of reaction I would expect from any immersed 2x2er. However I am well aware of the fact that there are many 'less immersed' (but more honest) 2x2ers that honestly DO have a genuine interest in the truth -- even when this truth is in direct conflict with official 2x2 explanation. Kiwi -- Although it may be typical for immersed and mesmerized 2x2ers, far from everyone makes it their collective business to scramble into the bushes when the true light illuminates the pathway of life. Edgar
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2009 5:03:28 GMT -5
Edgar, Kiwi's are nocturnal species which like to forage in the undergrowth, well away from the light. If you are expecting them to fly with you, then don't, because they can't.
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Post by kiwi on Feb 11, 2009 22:04:18 GMT -5
Edgar, Kiwi's are nocturnal species which like to forage in the undergrowth, well away from the light. If you are expecting them to fly with you, then don't, because they can't. And rams only operate when under pressure And others rams bleat alot ;D
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Post by kiwi on Feb 11, 2009 22:06:11 GMT -5
Of course it is the same reation what do you expect with the biased speal that you write? To answer your question, I made it clear in my post that this is the kind of reaction I would expect from any immersed 2x2er. However I am well aware of the fact that there are many 'less immersed' (but more honest) 2x2ers that honestly DO have a genuine interest in the truth -- even when this truth is in direct conflict with official 2x2 explanation. Kiwi -- Although it may be typical for immersed and mesmerized 2x2ers, far from everyone makes it their collective business to scramble into the bushes when the true light illuminates the pathway of life. Edgar Do you honestly believe what you wrote?
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Post by ClayRandall on Feb 11, 2009 22:31:00 GMT -5
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Post by ilylo on Feb 11, 2009 22:34:54 GMT -5
Yep. And those were LOOOOONNNNNG mouse-wheel spins, I'll have you know.
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Post by ClayRandall on Feb 11, 2009 22:35:06 GMT -5
This thread is missing the point. Establishing William Irvine as founder does not diminish or enhance the role of God in the 2x2 fellowship, either 112 years ago or today. It most certainly does matter. Workers have claimed 2x2 origins "from the beginning" as a way to insinuate superiority of their movement over "worldly" religions. Since apostolic succesion of the 2x2 movement is not true, this misleads both current believers and prospective converts, meaning they are basing their worship choices on falsehood (intentional or not).
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Post by todd on Feb 11, 2009 23:41:32 GMT -5
~~~ Very nice post, todd. My vote is... Scenario 1. God prepared the hearts of quite a few men, and delivered each one of them his own special little part of his instructions, so that no single one of them could claim to have created it, but that when all put together was exactly how God had intended for his church to be serving him. Thanks for your vote Nathan. So far the voting has wildly swung towards 'scenario 1' I will check the results again once the voting tally has doubled Nathan, The votes have come in... here are the results. Scenario 1: 1.5 votes Scenario 2: 0 votes The voting analysis.... Scenario 1 votes: 1 - Nathan9 0.5 - Cherie K Scenario 2 votes: 0Note: Cherie's vote only got half weighted because she knew it was possible but didn't believe it. RE Todd: Do you not believe that "scenario 1" happened? I believe it COULD have happened, but I dont believe that was how it did happen.
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Post by todd on Feb 12, 2009 0:12:30 GMT -5
Nathan, The votes have come in... here are the results. Scenario 1: 1.5 votes Scenario 2: 0 votes The voting analysis.... Scenario 1 votes: 1 - Nathan9 0.5 - Cherie K Scenario 2 votes: 0Note: Cherie's vote only got half weighted because she knew it was possible but didn't believe it. ~~~ Hang on to your hat Todd, my buddy....Now a new player has appeared.... John Kelly... who was William Irivine's first 2x2 companion.
John Kelly was a Faith Mission worker in 1896 and William Irvine was also a Faith Mission worker in 1895.What's going on here?!?! I thought we already knew the 'facts' about the history, and that they were the facts. Where did this guy come from?
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Post by Sharon on Feb 12, 2009 8:32:45 GMT -5
What's going on here?!?! I thought we already knew the 'facts' about the history, and that they were the facts. Where did this guy come from? ~~~ He was under the radar... There were a 5 or 6 more Faith Mission workers left about the same time as John Kelly that we haven't heard their stories yet!
The focus was on WI from the start! so the rest of these ex-Faith Mission workers were forgotten.After I had read the available facts about 2 yrs. ago, I was of the impression that it was this "group" of ex-FM workers that founded the intinerant ministry...but that could have been my error! I think it was becaue WI was already a supervisor within the FM ministry as a whole that it was this fact that caused him to rise to the founder.....how and why he discovered this....though it did seem to what I read also, that John Kelly perhaps was the one who told WI more about this Mt. 10 ministry and how it should be. And before someone assumes I'm trying to keep from WI being founder I am not....I'm really wondering just who really did enlighten WI about it?
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Post by lin on Feb 12, 2009 8:51:44 GMT -5
Just when you think you know,you find out you don't know.
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Post by CherieKropp on Feb 12, 2009 8:56:43 GMT -5
Nate: Please tell me the names of "5-6 FM workers who left about the same time as WmI."
There are 2 other threads on this board where we've gone into this in depth...even with a chart showing the exit dates, etc.
There were TWO other workers who left the SAME YEAR that WmI did (1901). ONE of them was J Kelly.
Sharon - John Kelly and John Long are two entirely different men...and I believe you may have them mixed up.
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Post by lin on Feb 12, 2009 9:05:44 GMT -5
Why are John Kelly and W.I. dates not listed then? I was told that there was a lot of jealousy on the part of John Long. He felt he was the one that should have had the position of WI. He had a lot of pride in his accomplishments.
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Post by Scott Ross on Feb 12, 2009 9:12:07 GMT -5
I have read with growing amusement the various spins on the idea that Uncle Willy was the founder, finder, originator, inventor, instigator, stump man, whateverdude, etc..... No matter how you look at it, he was the first to start whatever it was then that has evolved into whatever it is now..... No matter what anyone starts, there has to be a group of others that go along with the idea in order for it to work. Personally, I think it was his dog that did most of the work in the early days and drew people to him. Nothing like a friendly pooch to start a conversation..... We have one person here that has tried every which way he can to deflect people away from the historical facts. I know that not all of his family have been of the same idea. In fact I heard that a relative of theirs showed up at a convention with a big sign erected on his vehicle and a loudspeaker and proceeded to give his version of how he thought the truth fellowship started.... ;D We've all got someone like that in the family though...... At least that's what my relatives have told me! Scott
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Post by lin on Feb 12, 2009 9:21:06 GMT -5
You mean every family tree has a monkey Scott? I think you may be on to something with the dog. The dog probably was a Waldensian or Voodoo from Switzerland.
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Post by Scott Ross on Feb 12, 2009 9:33:59 GMT -5
You mean every family tree has a monkey Scott? I think you may be on to something with the dog. The dog probably was a Waldensian or Voodoo from Switzerland. Yep. No matter how the rest of the family tries to downplay the part the monkey plays in the family history, It just ain't gonna go away. I don't think the dog was a Waldensian. It didn't have a companion..... It might have been affiliated with those tail dockers out of Switzerland though..... Hmm...... Might have to ask Gene if he knows where that little doggie came from. It could be that the truth fellowship actually started earlier than was originally thought!!! Scott
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