H.A.S.
Senior Member
God loves us all. Yes, even you.
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Post by H.A.S. on Jan 5, 2009 12:31:10 GMT -5
If there were workers before William Irvine, why do some workers say it started in Ireland with Irvine, Maybe they have come to terms with the truth. Maybe they just can't accept the truth. Maybe they're just liars... or ignorant. Agreed
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Post by Happy Feet on Jan 5, 2009 14:39:11 GMT -5
~~~ Can you tell us of anyone got SAVED through reading the scriptures by himself/herself in the New Testament?1) HAS wrote: Perhaps you should read first Corinthians 3:5 where Paul writing to this church says: 'Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. So then neither is he that planteth anything, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase'. ~~~ Yes, I have read I Cor. 3:5 many times.... Paul, Peter, Apollos on the same team! believe in the same Itinerant ministry of Jesus and they having the SAME New Testament fellowship in the homes of believers. That was Paul trying to tell the Corinthians NOT total different groups!2) So I'm sure you'd agree that it is not important who or how you hear of the Gospel. Be it 2X2, 4X4, or just by reading it in the bible; God will give the increase. ~~~ Remember this! Peter, Paul and Apollos believed on the same ministry and fellowship..... this is not the same TODAY! God gives the Holy Spirit to them that OBEY Him NOT just anyone who claims they are.
I John 4:1 Beloved, believe NOT every spirit, but TEST the spirits whether they are from God: because many false prophets have gone into the world.3) Anyway, you asked for a name, so here are two: Charles Wesley and John Wesley. After you're done looking them up, you might want to talk to a Gideon about this topic. The Gideon’s will tell you how people in a hotel room or in a taxi or on holiday have just read God's word, and God's word has brought life. ~~~ Look what they have produced more denominations, factions..... more confusion! in the already Chaos religious world. And look what William Irvine produced....... How have the Wesleys produced factions and confusion? What chaos are you talking about? Methodists, Presberyerians, are great churches, part of the body of Christ with Baptists and other Christian churches. Why do you consider a group with a name a faction? God speaks to a person and they follow the Lord, the group grows and you consider that wrong. Do you consider every new fellowship meeting that is started a faction? The Wesley's were good God fearing people, unlike Irvine on the other hand that tried to create division and hate for Christian churches. Do you think that different families create divisions? Do you think we should all have the same name? My name is Smith and yours is Brown - how does that cause confusion or faction? It stops confusion, it brings clarity not confusion. Nothing wrong with different names. Even Adam and Eve had names to show differences but they were still both human. Husband and wife become one, even though they are different. Don't those in your group dress different to show their difference, but according to you we are not allowed to think different or emphaise different parts of scripture. The 2x2s emphaise the ministry, the Baptist emphasie another part, doesn't mean they create a faction or confusion, just they see the significance of another part of scripture as being important. In fact, God has restored truths to his church over the years through the revelation of scripture by men such as Wesley. However, Irvine, White, Smith etc. have created factions and confusion by having formed groups around their distorted teachings of the Bible.
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Post by Happy Feet on Jan 5, 2009 14:48:52 GMT -5
Nathan, you will notice that I did a spell check after the post you have quoted, so my new version/corrected post appears slightly different from the one you have quoted. I added some. My spell check on here is actually not working today so had to go over it by 'hand' so to speak. Maybe it could not handle all the errors
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Post by slowtosee on Jan 5, 2009 15:40:14 GMT -5
You knew where to return when you came back.
Hi Nathan, It is not WHERE , it is WHO.
"ye say that in Jerusalem is the place.......our fathers worshiped in this mountain" (or church) ....ye worship ye know not what.......
Alvin
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Post by someguy on Jan 5, 2009 16:28:06 GMT -5
~~~ The Who is with the Where.... ;D
Jesus went on to say.... But the hour comes, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: For the Father seeketh such to worship him.= Christ's Passover/Eucharists/Thanksgiving in the homes of the believers. Reaching, reaching....stretch a little more Nate. What he said is correct, it is not where that is important. However, if you want to think so, then by all means. Do what you wish. Alienate yourself from other brothers and sisters just because they don't fellowship in homes. Hmmm
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H.A.S.
Senior Member
God loves us all. Yes, even you.
Posts: 705
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Post by H.A.S. on Jan 5, 2009 16:50:40 GMT -5
And look what William Irvine produced.......
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Post by Sharon on Jan 6, 2009 10:11:32 GMT -5
~~~ Can you tell us of anyone got SAVED through reading the scriptures by himself/herself in the New Testament? I think I just realized something this morning when I read Galatians 1...Paul says he literally was saved by Jesus and only Jesus....he had no contact with the apostles for 3 yrs. apparently according to the history by Cambridge scholars. Paul was convicted by Jesus and only Jesus...I think his testimony is enough for me to consider that there are people who can read the Bible and see Jesus. I cannot think that even though they may never cross any preacher's pathway that Jesus would consider them lost eternally! If it is Jesus that has saved them, then it is Jesus who will judge them regardless! Jesus told His own apostles to not forbid the man who was casting out devils in Jesus' name...for he who is for us can not be against us....he went on to explain that those who give a drink in Jesus' name, in no wise shall lose his reward. Now we have to be fair here to Jesus for He, in no way, described the reward that would be due, did He? I find Jesus' attitude about the man who was casting out devils in His name much like the same attitude He showed Peter, when Peter asked Him what would happen to another apostle...Jesus said, "What is that to thee?" Otherwords seem like Jesus was telling Peter that Peter had no concerns about what happens to that other man....that Jesus would see to that. The same attitude about one who casts out devils in Jesus name, the same for the ones who give in drink in Jesus'name....they will get their reward but it is not our place to say what that reward will be, is it? I think this same attitude is the attitude Jesus would want us to take when looking at or speaking about the other Christian churches or any other religion as far as that is concerned. If we're moved to feel that isn't for us, then so be it...but not to the point of condemning others to a lost eternity because we do NOT known what their reward will be, now do we?
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Post by Sharon on Jan 6, 2009 11:21:19 GMT -5
You knew where to return when you came back. Hi Nathan, It is not WHERE , it is WHO. "ye say that in Jerusalem is the place.......our fathers worshiped in this mountain" (or church) ....ye worship ye know not what....... Alvin ~~~ The Who is with the Where.... ;D
Jesus went on to say.... But the hour comes, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: For the Father seeketh such to worship him.= Christ's Passover/Eucharists/Thanksgiving in the homes of the believers."THe eagles will gather where the carcase is..."
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Post by lin on Jan 6, 2009 12:15:27 GMT -5
Nathan; When Saul was sent to Ananias, the Lord told Ananias he was a chosen vessel. Why do you say he wasn't saved. He also said in Galatians,I conferred not with flesh and blood.
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Post by slowtosee on Jan 6, 2009 12:40:32 GMT -5
Nathan; When Saul was sent to Ananias, the Lord told Ananias he was a chosen vessel. Why do you say he wasn't saved. He also said in Galatians,I conferred not with flesh and blood. Agreed, Lin, Paul also wrote to Timothy "And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.' God is not so small ,as we think he is sometimes, that he is restricted in his dealings with humanity by some "rule" WE put on him. Jesus said" All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and [he] to whomsoever the Son will reveal [him]." NO foolish restrictions that we invent, will keep God from revealing and saving the "whomsoevers". Who do WE really think WE are? WE are going to tell God, NOPE, you can't do that. In viewing a picture , taken from the planet Mars, of the planet Earth, it reminded me again of "what is man, that Thou art mindful of him" I think "let God be God" Alvin
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Post by lin on Jan 6, 2009 12:52:11 GMT -5
So true Alvin. God is not small,His thoughts are not our thoughts. Paul said we see through a glass darkly.
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H.A.S.
Senior Member
God loves us all. Yes, even you.
Posts: 705
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Post by H.A.S. on Jan 6, 2009 16:41:47 GMT -5
So there came a time in Timothy's life he had to confess Jesus is the Lord and Savior. Confess to who? Other people? Timothy wasn't SAVED even he had read the scriptures since his childhood.... The Scriptures helped Timothy to realize he needed Jesus in his life. So you're saying that if Timothy had read about Jesus and believed in him, it still wouldn't have been good enough to be saved?
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Post by lin on Jan 6, 2009 16:53:10 GMT -5
Nathan: What do you think the meaning of being saved is? Isn't the first qualification believe?
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Post by Sharon on Jan 6, 2009 17:13:27 GMT -5
"~~~ We must interpret the scriptures correctly! or it will create false teachings.... The forbid man I believe he was a disciple of Jesus! who wasn't one of the 12... but God gave him the power to cast out demons... We read Stephen, Philip the evangelist, and Ananias who were NOT the apostles but followers that God had given powers to heal just like the 12 and 70 apostles."
I don't think there is anything but literal scriptural interpretation to be had about the man who cast out devils in Jesus' name...HE WAS NOT A FOLLOWER OF JESUS. The apostles were followers of Jesus and there were many disciples who followed along with the apostles. But the apostles labeled this man "as one that didn't follow with us." That is the end of the man's spiritual identity, is it not? It is more of a long reach to say he was one of Jesus' disciples but not a follower with the apostles, then it is to believe this man believed that Jesus would come and He would save...it was "the man's faith in JESUS' NAME. NOT because of being a follower, that gave him the power to cast out devils." There were scattered people all along the population of the Jews in those days before, during and after that believed in the Messiah, they believed that God had a plan of salvation!
It very likely was counted to this man for righteousness because of his faith in the promise of the Messiah, very much in accordance to the same thing being counted to Abraham's faith in God's promise....they both believed in the promise of God's salvation plan and thus they were counted as faithful people. "Faith can move mountains."
I don't feel like I have a "false teaching" in my interpretation of that particular scripture, for there isn't any identity markers of that man being a "disciple of Jesus" for in those days Jesus disciples "followed" with the apostles and other disciples, therein they would have known each other. How this man came to his faith in Jesus' name, is not spoken of...so it is supposition to think he was a disciple of Jesus like those who are recorded as disciples of Jesus in that day, for it very plainly and definitely says he was NOT a follower with them.
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Post by lin on Jan 6, 2009 17:21:03 GMT -5
Who told Philip to go find him? How did he know about baptism? To be saved merely means that God has set us aside for a purpose. God starts that work long before we even know it ourselves.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2009 18:44:54 GMT -5
"~~~ N9: We must interpret the scriptures correctly! or it will create false teachings.... The forbid man I believe he was a disciple of Jesus! who wasn't one of the 12... but God gave him the power to cast out demons... We read Stephen, Philip the evangelist, and Ananias who were NOT the apostles but followers that God had given powers to heal just like the 12 and 70 apostles."1) I don't think there is anything but literal scriptural interpretation to be had about the man who cast out devils in Jesus' name...HE WAS NOT A FOLLOWER OF JESUS. The apostles were followers of Jesus and there were many disciples who followed along with the apostles. But the apostles labeled this man "as one that didn't follow with us." That is the end of the man's spiritual identity, is it not? It is more of a long reach to say he was one of Jesus' disciples but not a follower with the apostles, then it is to believe this man believed that Jesus would come and He would save...it was "the man's faith in JESUS' NAME. NOT because of being a follower, that gave him the power to cast out devils." There were scattered people all along the population of the Jews in those days before, during and after that believed in the Messiah, they believed that God had a plan of salvation! ~~~ Jesus gave the 12 and 70 apostles power to heal, cast out demons when he sent them out preaching...
This man was not one of those in the ministry.... so John the apostles said, "Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name and he follweth NOT us; and we forbade him, because he followeth not us.
This man wasn't against Jesus he must have believed Him as the Messiah in his heart.... because Jesus said For he that is NOT against us is on our part. (Mark 9:38-40) 2) It very likely was counted to this man for righteousness because of his faith in the promise of the Messiah, very much in accordance to the same thing being counted to Abraham's faith in God's promise....they both believed in the promise of God's salvation plan and thus they were counted as faithful people. "Faith can move mountains." I don't feel like I have a "false teaching" in my interpretation of that particular scripture, for there isn't any identity markers of that man being a "disciple of Jesus" for in those days Jesus disciples "followed" with the apostles and other disciples, therein they would have known each other. How this man came to his faith in Jesus' name, is not spoken of...so it is supposition to think he was a disciple of Jesus like those who are recorded as disciples of Jesus in that day, for it very plainly and definitely says he was NOT a follower with them. ~~~ The 12 was not the only Jesus sent out.... in Luke 10 we read Jesus sent out another 70 similiar to the 12. It tells us in I Cor. 15: 4-9..... there were more than 500 disciples of Jesus who believed in him during his 31/2 ministry.
Jesus weren't always was with the 12 .... Just like the time he was alone visiting with the Samaritan woman at the well... while the 12 went into the village to buy food. The 12 apostles do not know all of whom Jesus had met and talked to who later became his disciples.
Well... sharon... those just my opinion. [/color][/quote] NATHAN, this was something that I was trying to draw out of you in another thread. I agree with what you have said, only I will go further. The incident in question where the disciples forbad the man from casting out devils appears to have occurred during the first commission, when Jesus sent the 12 out in pairs to preach the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand and armed them with the power to work miracles. We must examine some of the circumstances surrounding that matter. When Jesus first started to cast out devils this was a new thing which amazed the people. It was clearly from God. Mark 1:27 "And they were all amazed, insomuch that they questioned amongst themselves, saying, What thing is this ? WHAT NEW DOCTRINE IS THIS ? for with AUTHORITY commandeth he even the unclean spirits, and they do obey him." This was a clear sign from God to show that Jesus was the promised Messiah to come. The miracles were to prove to the people beyond all doubt that Jesus was the Messiah sent by God. They were to give authority to his words. When Jesus sent out the 12 disciples which he had chosen to send to the lost House of Israel, he gave them all power to cast out unclean spirits and to heal all manner of sicknesses and diseases. Their primary mission was to preach the Kingdom of God was at hand. The miracles were to show they represented Jesus and were sent by God and added authority and proof to their words. We know that in order to perform the miracles the disciples needed "faith" in Jesus, otherwise their attempts would have no effect. There were even times where they could not work miracles because they lacked faith at the material times. So we can take for granted that God empowered some who had faith in Jesus (following his teachings) to heal the sick and cast out devils in order to prove the words they spake were from God. Those that worked the miracles were those who preached the Kingdom of God was at hand. The miracles proved their preachings. During that first commission the twelve grew swell-headed as a result of their ability to work miracles (not because of their preaching) and debated amongst themselves on occasions as to which of them would be the greatest in the Kingdom of God. Their ability to heal the sick and cast out unclean spirits made them jealous. They felt they were special and their mission was special. However, during that mission some of them came across a man also casting out devils in the name of Jesus and they forbad him from doing so. They said they did so "because he followed not us." (Mark 9:38-40). What does this little portion of scripture tell us ? It shows the disciples had authority over that man. He must have been a follower of Christ for several reasons. The disciples had no power to stop anyone doing anything, who wasn't one of their growing fellowship. The man deferred to them. He recognised their special status. In order to have cast out the unclean spirits the man must have received that power from God AND he must have had faith in Jesus to have received that power. What else does it tell us. The disciples said "because he followeth not us !" Very interesting. He was not one of those sent out like the twelve Apostles. By virtue of the fact he had the power to work miracles he must also have been a preacher (GASP) whose testimony regarding the Kingdom of God being at hand was proved by his ability to work miracles. The disciples would not have been jealous about him preaching the word, but they most certainly were over his ability to work miracles. At this point we can accept the great possibility that he was a preacher, just like they were, but was likely doing so on his own, on a non-itinerant basis on a localised level. Jesus said "Forbid him not, for their is no man who shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. For he that is not against us is on our part." This man indicates two things. Either we have the start of Christian denominalisation here, where this man and likely others were operating separately from the Apostles et al (as some suggest), or we have the first recorded example of a Christian preacher acting on his own at a localised level on a non-itinerant basis. Whatever conclusion we draw, we must accept he was a preacher who came with the full approval of Jesus and was not called to go out on the Matthew 10 basis.
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Post by Sharon on Jan 6, 2009 18:53:25 GMT -5
Nathan, I just reread Gals. 1, Paul said "But I certify you brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ."
Also in light of the man who the apostles forbade to cast out devils in Jesus' name, here is someone else's thoughts on that scripture...he used to be a worker and confesses to be a friend:
"....the disciples simply did not know this man and his relationship with Jesus. Jesus often had relationships with people that his disciples were not even aware of until much later. (the lady who touched the hem of his garment, the lady who cast her last penny into the treasury, the Samaritan women, ect and others). The story in Mark 9 and Luke 9 shows Jesus stern rebuke of his disciples concerning the issue of exclusivity. He had just dealt with them concerning the “who will be the greatest syndrome” and now this wrong attitude. John told Jesus that they had seen someone using His name to cast out demons, and they had told the person to stop because he wasn’t one of us. (Mark 9:38-40 & Luke 9:49-50) They wanted this person to stop his work of deliverance. He wasn’t a member of their group. They couldn’t imagine how God’s saving and healing power could be operating outside of their circle. The Twelve were together with Jesus when John told Jesus, “Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followed not us: we forbad him, because he followed not us.” It was apparent that the individual was “not one of us” the exclusive company of the Twelve. The circle of believers at that time would have been very small and all of the believers would have been acquainted with one another. Who was this lone disciple? He was a believer. He was acting in Jesus name. He had accomplished a miracle in Jesus name. He had a relationship with Jesus. He had a power in his life given to him from Jesus. He had accomplished something the disciples had failed to do on at least one occasion. Some have ventured that he was a disciple but not a part of the ministry at that time and the Apostles felt he should not be doing the work that they were to do. However, had he been a disciple they would have known him as the circle of believers at that time was relatively small. How did Jesus respond? He said ‘Forbid him not. Don’t stop him, for no one doing miracles in my name will turn against me. Anyone who isn’t against us is for us.’ The power of grace lies in the name of Jesus (only). Acts 3:6, (Peter) "...In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk." Rom. 10:12, "...for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." See Col. 3:11. The disciples here wanted to limit the life-giving power of Jesus’ name. Weren’t they starting to say, "We’re the only ones who are right" - to preach a gospel of exclusivity? May we not attempt to shrink the Creator of mankind into our own exclusive box. "For the love of God is broader than the measure of man’s mind." Jesus said, “do not stop him” “forbid him not”. Perhaps Jesus view of discipleship was far more inclusive than the narrow view held by the Twelve. Jesus despised and often condemned human pride and arrogance. But he demonstrated, taught and even commanded love for others (including our enemies). Pride focuses on self. Pride separates. Pride excludes. But love focuses on others. Love unites. Love includes. How can anyone claim to be a believer in and follower of Jesus who preaches, teaches or practices exclusivity? As a minimum, we should love, accept and include all Christians and let God be the judge. That's what Jesus taught and lived and that is what I feel responsible to do."
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White Knight
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THE SHADOW KNOWS. In the shadow of the highest is a refuge from all fear.
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Post by White Knight on Jan 6, 2009 19:52:45 GMT -5
Good topic folks, but I think something is missing.
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Post by Sharon on Jan 6, 2009 20:02:27 GMT -5
~~~ Thanks, sharon for your thoughts. You've the gift of a teacher! ;D You know your scriptures...
There are some have the gift of teachers on TMB... Shushy, Jessi, ram, Selah, Scott, etc..
Thanks, Ram! for your post...
What I have learned from this man! that God gave him the power to cast out demons! and Jesus approved it... In the book of Acts God granted some of the disciples with the power to heal, working miracles just as the apostles.
Jesus wanted the apostles and his followers to work together in helping each others spreading the goodnews! of Salvation through Christ. They are ONE body but many members in the body... some are the eyes, the ears, the nose, the heart, the fingers, the toes, etc...
The apostles have their responsibilities, and gifts... the disciples have their own gifts, and talents also.... so use them wisely for the good of the kingdom.
I know some workers have believed PREACHING the gospel should be for them ONLY! and the friends shouldn't try it. That's incorrect! we should encourage the friends to have a part in this great work of the gospel.
Many of non-2x2s have come to the meetings and professed through the friends' testimonies by telling others what they believe. Nathan, thank you for your graciousness! The pride and arrogance that Jesus was seeking to stifle within the 12 apostles was noted just prior to the man being forbade by them...it spoke about them wanting to be the greatest and then others that had not been in that frame of mind were hurt by that idea, jealous perhaps...just a lot of wrong spirits and attitudes...and the following scripture tells that Jesus spoke about anyone giving a drink in His name in no wise would lose their reward. I really believe it is as my friend explained, Jesus IS and WAS love and all it embodied. I think God deemed the time ripe for Jesus' birth, ministry and death because of the lack of that love! It seems perhaps that same condition may be rife today is a large portion of the world's population. Is it time for "LOVE" to return? Maybe! Just a few thoughts about how Jesus sought to qwell the human passions!
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White Knight
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THE SHADOW KNOWS. In the shadow of the highest is a refuge from all fear.
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Post by White Knight on Jan 6, 2009 20:40:29 GMT -5
Mark 9:39. This does not mean that every miracle-worker is automatically blessed of God. See Matthew 7:22, 23 Jesus also said; for he that is not against us is on our part (side). I wonder not sure though could this have been one of John’s disciples. I think Jesus knew who he was; This John being a cousin of Jesus. Nevertheless I have many friends on the out side that are very clean and good and God fearing. I am not there judge, but hope we all make it to the other side with our Master (great teacher). Hope I didn’t confuse the issue.
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Post by Sharon on Jan 6, 2009 21:58:04 GMT -5
"~~~ Whoever this man was Jesus approved for casting demons through his name. " Did Jesus really approve of him? He simply was telling His own apostles to forbid him not, because the man certainly couldn't be against Jesus if he was invoking Jesus' name. I think it's in Luke's version where Jesus went on to speak about those that give a drink in His name and that they in no wise would lose their reward. BUT at the same time, there is NO declaration BY Jesus of what that reward would be, is there? Yes, I think Jesus approves of any who reach out to others in their need, but I also think Jesus also was teaching that charitable acts do not buy salvation! And He didn't want anyone to confuse the difference!
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Post by ilylo on Jan 6, 2009 22:09:52 GMT -5
Nevertheless I have many friends on the out side that are very clean and good and God fearing. I am not there judge If you are not their judge, then why do you place them "on the outside?" In your heart, you have just judged them.
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White Knight
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Post by White Knight on Jan 7, 2009 7:23:11 GMT -5
Nevertheless I have many friends on the out side that are very clean and good and God fearing. I am not there judge If you are not their judge, then why do you place them "on the outside?" In your heart, you have just judged them. And who are you to judge, I haven't read yet were God cut anyone down for doing good? Then again I forgot your bible and the Bible the rest of us read is different.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2009 7:34:59 GMT -5
Mark 9:39. This does not mean that every miracle-worker is automatically blessed of God. See Matthew 7:22, 23 Jesus also said; for he that is not against us is on our part (side). I wonder not sure though could this have been one of John’s disciples. I think Jesus knew who he was; This John being a cousin of Jesus. Nevertheless I have many friends on the out side that are very clean and good and God fearing. I am not there judge, but hope we all make it to the other side with our Master (great teacher). Hope I didn’t confuse the issue. I may be wrong but I have a feeling that Jesus was talking about the great deception that was/is to come into the world, which God himself would send to convince those of a lie, who will not accept God's message. The ability to cast out demons etc would certainly convince people of a lie, i.e. those doing so are from God, when in fact they are not. They are deceived. God himself is the author of this deception. In Jesus day, only the power of God, given to those who had faith in Christ could cast out demons and work miracles. These were far greater than the powers of sorcery which some were practicing. If you make a study of Simon the sorcerer and the disciples in Acts you can clearly see the difference as things were at that time. The people thought that Simon's acts of sorcery were the works of God, UNTIL the Apostles came along and performed the miracles of God. Simon the sorcerer saw the huge difference and desired this for himself, even offering to pay money for the power. It may be that God will send his own powers to act as part of the great deception.
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White Knight
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THE SHADOW KNOWS. In the shadow of the highest is a refuge from all fear.
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Post by White Knight on Jan 7, 2009 7:36:29 GMT -5
I think he may well have been a brother to Jesus, but as you said Jesus never rebuke him. I wonder could have this been because they worked together he may have became a disciple. What ever happened we never read of a division amongst them nor negative ness, only harmony.
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Pink
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Post by Pink on Jan 7, 2009 7:38:53 GMT -5
If you are not their judge, then why do you place them "on the outside?" In your heart, you have just judged them. And who are you to judge, I haven't read yet were God cut anyone down for doing good? Then again I forgot your bible and the Bible the rest of us read is different. I think Jephthah, who is mentioned in the NT as "a man of faith", was cut down for doing good. When he vowed to God that he would sacrifice whoever came out of his house first to meet him (why would anyone do this?) and it was his daughter he even tore his clothes and cried out Alas, my daughter! You have brought me very low.................Yep, cut down at the very knees.............
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Post by ilylo on Jan 7, 2009 8:57:36 GMT -5
If you are not their judge, then why do you place them "on the outside?" In your heart, you have just judged them. And who are you to judge, I haven't read yet were God cut anyone down for doing good? Then again I forgot your bible and the Bible the rest of us read is different. I'll have to take it from your fluff answer that you tacetly admit having judged them.
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Post by lin on Jan 7, 2009 9:02:11 GMT -5
Seems like there's a lot of speculation about this man doing miracles. Maybe if it was important it would tell us more.
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