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Post by lin on Dec 6, 2008 10:55:55 GMT -5
If motives are pure why worry about defending them.
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Post by ilylo on Dec 6, 2008 10:58:48 GMT -5
Are you for real?
You are like Obama in Reverend Wright's church.... uh... I sat there for 20 years (56 in your case) and never heard a word.
Oh well. I can understand that you feel the need to stick your barb in Cherie's side as well, since she obviously doesn't believe you. Neither do I, for that matter.
I asked you earlier if you believed that the 2x2 church was the one true church (regardless of whether or not you had heard it preached), and you must have missed it the question.
So here it is again... Do you, lin, regardless of what you have heard preached, believe that the 2x2 church is the one true church?
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Post by lin on Dec 6, 2008 11:01:53 GMT -5
Your belief means nothing to me
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2008 11:04:33 GMT -5
Lin, Cherie has invested considerable time, effort and expense in her website. Many are very thankful for her efforts. If you are going public about matters, you must be prepared to defend them. The attack on her motives is also an attack on her website and all the efforts she has gone to.
Of course the reverse situation applies also. The way of the Friends and workers is constantly attacked by many people for various reasons. True, the workers do not generally get involved in defending their beliefs on sites such as this. However, a good number of the friends take up the cause for them. Why do they feel compelled to defend the opinions, beliefs and practices of the workers ?
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Post by degem on Dec 6, 2008 11:09:46 GMT -5
I don't get the big deal about people expressing their opinions. And then people go haywire when others' expressed opinions don't "match' up with theirs. And then so forth, so on. And no I am not pointing fingers at anyone. Sometimes it gets redundant IMO
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2008 11:13:36 GMT -5
You're right Gem. We all have opinions and should have the right to express them. It makes for good, balanced thought process and reasoning. It seems those who attack the opinions of others through character assault are those who think only their opinions matter or they have been part of a process which suppresses the natural inclination to think.
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Post by lin on Dec 6, 2008 11:13:38 GMT -5
Lin, Cherie has invested considerable time, effort and expense in her website. Many are very thankful for her efforts. If you are going public about matters, you must be prepared to defend them. The attack on her motives is also an attack on her website and all the efforts she has gone to. Of course the reverse situation applies also. The way of the Friends and workers is constantly attacked by many people for various reasons. True, the workers do not generally get involved in defending their beliefs on sites such as this. However, a good number of the friends take up the cause for them. Why do they feel compelled to defend the opinions, beliefs and practices of the workers ? I guess the same reason you defend Cherie First of all I don't think I was the one to start this thread. She is the one that attacked me. She says now it was a joke. So maybe she could take all of this as a joke too.
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Post by ilylo on Dec 6, 2008 11:18:59 GMT -5
Your belief means nothing to me Obviously. Now... back to the question: Do you, lin, regardless of what you have heard preached, believe that the 2x2 church is the one true church?
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Post by degem on Dec 6, 2008 11:21:20 GMT -5
I also think that anyone OF us either have or is CAPABLE of expressing our thoughts in what seems to be an inconsistent manner? Notice I said capable so I am not accusing anyone of doing that either
Hell is no laughing matter I agree IG>
Think I need to go out and shovel snow to "cool off"
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Post by lin on Dec 6, 2008 11:22:53 GMT -5
It says " And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven." This will be one church.Where he gathers them from I don't think we can say it would be from a certain select group. How would we know? What do you think?
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Post by CherieKropp on Dec 6, 2008 11:37:15 GMT -5
Below are copies of Lin's 2 posts I agree Lin has become more tolerant...it shows in what and how he writes on the TMB. He was one angry man when he first came on and he let it be known. That has changed in what he writes. HOWEVER: The last line of Lin's transformation post was blatantly ignored in Lin's second post. Lin wrote that he wanted to "post more wisely" be a "peacemaker" --and then almost immediately (on the same day?) he does the opposite. He writes a post that waves a red flag in front of those on TMB who are against exclusivity. Talk about inconsistency and empty words! Someone asked me if I didn't believe Lin's FIRST post--I think Lin has developed some tolerance after reading the views and experiences of many on TMB--but he has much to learn re wisdom in dealing with others, empathy and being a peacemaker...and his 2nd post proved that. Many were rushing in to give their thoughts on/about Lin's 2nd post where he stated he never heard it preached the only way preached back to Galilee etc--so I made a poll to make it easier to show the opinions of Lin's statement. I knew many would not have a yes or no opinion, I created the other options for those who wanted to give him the benefit of a doubt. The last one (alzheimers) was a joke. The other 2 options (faulty memory & doesnt listen well) are quite valid "benefits of a doubt" and not attacks on his character at all...they were mercy options. They gave him an out... When people are confronted with information that is contrary to what they have believed--there is cognitive dissonance. To have peace, they must reconcile these inconsistencies. Some revisit their past where they formed their belief - some alter/modify their beliefs with the new truth; others decide they misunderstood; etc. Each individual arrives at their own reconciliation. I view Lin's comments arising out of a reconciliation he has been processing. One of my favorite quotes addresses this reprocessing: There are just two kinds of people: One to whom Belief...is more precious than Truth, And the other to whom Truth...is more precious than Belief. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- THREAD: What TMB has taught me… When I first came to TMB, I saw the different discussions and opinions. I also found myself classifying posters. One group was enemies , the other friends. The reason for this was their opinions were not like mine or were like mine. Because of this I acted accordingly and also posted accordingly. Over time though I have developed a different feeling. I have come to see individuals who have been through different experiences than myself. Some have had experiences that have hurt them deeply others have had things they don't understand. Others are content and have an exalted feeling of being the great teacher. There are also those that cause no waves. What all of these observations have taught me is I don't know everything, and would like to post more wisely. I also would like to be a peacemaker. professing.proboards16.com/index.....ad=12130&page=1--------------------------------------------------------------------------- THREAD: Didn't the faiths forerunners know? I have been professing for 56 years and have never heard anybody preach we are the only way since Christ's days. I helped take care of George Walker in his last days and never in any conversation heard him use such a statement. I did hear him say one time about a man that said he was going to leave this and he was going to kick it apart, and George said if you can kick it apart then it's not of God and I don't want a thing to do with it. professing.proboards16.com/index.....ad=12144&page=1
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Post by Sharon on Dec 6, 2008 11:41:03 GMT -5
I says " And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven." This will be one church.Where he gathers them from I don't think we can say it would be from a certain select group. How would we know? What do you think? Lin! I agree, we cannot begin to guesstimate how Jesus will "pick" His elect! We know it says many are called but few are chosen.......and yet I firmly believe that the "elect" Jesus gathers are those who will not need to fear the second death...however there'll be some who are raised at Judgment Day that will also receive life eternal...we cannot prevent those who've gone before us, nor can we prevent those who will live and die after Jesus' return either. It says the new heaven and earth would be inhabited with nations, kings, and priests etc. And that they will flow unto heaven, to God's throne bringing Him praises and honor and glory....somebody will have to be those who inhabit the new earth in nations therein...they will know eternal life, they will know worshipping God the everlasting God...however it seems to me that those "elect" that Jesus gathers on His return will be with Him in Heaven. Is that not a possibility? Are they not the "regeneration" of the new Heaven?
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Post by degem on Dec 6, 2008 11:55:13 GMT -5
I don't think anyone is as "pure as God's breath." Pure: "free from contamination, pollution or dirt, clear, spotless."
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Post by freespirit on Dec 6, 2008 15:35:22 GMT -5
For some reason this post does not sound like you. Do you have an axe to grind with Cherie? Actually it sounds completely catty. Interesting opinion. Is a poll attacking a man’s mental cognition when he gives a point of view that is contrary to what Cherie has on her website also “catty”? Perhaps Cherie has an axe to grind with the fellowship. To me it reads as if she is trying to shame anyone who has a contradictory opinion from stepping forward. Here is something I heard at convention recently: Jesus is the way, the truth and the light. Bet that quote doesn’t make it onto her website. But this quote (also from convention) might: the workers are helpers of your salvation. I fully agree with the first quote, but I think the latter quote is bunk. Jesus is our salvation, not people. IMO Cherie oughta tell the truth on her website: sometimes we’re right on target and sometimes we’re a messed up muck. Same as every other group of humans. fs
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Post by ilylo on Dec 6, 2008 15:39:56 GMT -5
You're not the same as every other group of humans. Remember... you're in the truth! Therefore, based on that membership alone, you are special. And your church is the only true church on the face of the earth... (for 111 years so far).
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Post by ex-teenager on Dec 6, 2008 15:48:23 GMT -5
If this were true, then it would publish the WHOLE truth. That is, links to Bert's website so people can check out the opposing view. If Bert's website is so decrepit then surely the light on the TTT will easily dispel the darkness of ignorance and error? Or what about a link to Nathan's website, or my own - which would certainly challenge the view that the Friends are, in the main, theologically ignorant twits. Hello, captain clueless. You don't link to her site. So quit whining like a 2-yr-old that she doesn't link to yours. Hypocrite. Yawn. Some things never change. And some people never grow up! Children.
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Post by ilylo on Dec 6, 2008 15:52:37 GMT -5
Maybe someday Jason will grow up.
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Post by Happy Feet on Dec 6, 2008 15:53:14 GMT -5
Hello, captain clueless. You don't link to her site. So quit whining like a 2-yr-old that she doesn't link to yours. Hypocrite. Yawn. Some things never change. And some people never grow up Children. And your probably the youngest on here. By the way you have been a teenager for a long time..... maybe it is time you grew up?? i.e. graduated to your 20s..
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Post by Scott Ross on Dec 6, 2008 16:42:13 GMT -5
And your probably the youngest on here. By the way you have been a teenager for a long time..... maybe it is time you grew up?? i.e. graduated to your 20s..Nope, not the youngest by more than a couple of years.... There are others that are younger on here. They do bring a fresh perspective from the position of a teenager that reads everything that is posted here. These teenagers aren't afraid to talk about this stuff they read here with others in their age group, and I think that is a good thing. I hope that they also talk to their parents and workers about what they read here also. It'll bring about more openness and honesty in the church I think. It's pretty hard to pull the wool over the eyes of todays teenagers. They have as much (or more) access to these internet sites than their parents and grandparents, and they are reading about everything being discussed here. They see the issues and are in the position of youth as to what to do about what they read. When they leave home, what direction are they going to take? Will they continue to follow along with teachings that they know are not scriptural but rather doctrines of man? They are the next generation of workers, elders and saints so they will be the ones bringing about change in the truth fellowship. (and into the world for that matter) I have corresponded with a few of the teenagers that post here 'off board'. They are just as much into the discussions as us old farts are, but I think they do a lot of their talking in other forums. You can see this in their face book posts for example where they have discussed the hair issue and clothing issues we discuss on here. I've also read about dating issues they discussed. Interesting to read what they have to post. (I'd give the link but I don't have it saved in this computer...) Scott
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Post by freespirit on Dec 6, 2008 17:05:00 GMT -5
Good post, Scott.
I hope the teenagers will search the scriptures, pray, meditate, cling to God and ask for His guidance in all things. On petty matters like hair and clothing, sure... but more so on finding the right mate, the right career, the right path for life and all of it.
We can trust God with all things.
freespirit
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Post by peridot on Dec 6, 2008 18:14:04 GMT -5
IMO, Cherie goes waaaaaaaaaaaaay beyond the history of the fellowship and delves into theology and Christian living. We all need to go waaaaaay beyond the history of the fellowship and delve into theology and Christian living by examining for ourselves what the Bible says. One does not have to mangle scripture to give reasons why a woman can wear her long hair in flattering ways—it’s supposed to be a GLORY (beautiful/taken care of), not a burden (God’s commandments are not grievous/His yoke is easy)—and there are many styles/updos to choose from with long hair. Personally, I find long hair very versatile and easy. Long hair can be styled look anywhere from professional to casual to sexy depending on a woman’s mood. I don't find anywhere in the Bible where a woman's hair is to be worn long so it is flattering and sexy. In fact, just the opposite is found in 1 Peter 3:3-4 "Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price." But Cherie seems, IMO, to be promoting something other than what the bible teaches. Examine for yourself what the Bible says and you will find Cherie is not as far off track as you think she is. I am puzzled how keeping a first husband’s name rather than taking the second husband’s name lines up with any of the scripture that tells women to honor and respect their husbands. Who gives a dumb what surname Cherie uses. That's her business. Divorce is a rather sticky subject, but the bible sure doesn't seem to promote it being a good idea or something that we should justify. Yes, divorce is a rather sticky subject, unless you have been through one, you have no advice to offer. Cherie has mentioned online that she has been a councilor for many who are leaving the fellowship but when asked if those people went on to other churches or a deeper relationship with God, she said she didn’t keep track of that. You're expectation that Cherie keep track of what other people do is ridiculous. So far in following her example, there seems to be a promotion or at least a justification for: 1.not believing the bible is a timeless guide for modern living 2.a wife dishonoring her husband 3.divorce 4.gossip I cannot in good conscience agree with those things. So I wonder what she is counseling people toward. From what I can see it is not to God and not to scripture. freespirit I could ask you if it's that time of month, but I won't.
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Post by learnedaboutgrace on Dec 6, 2008 18:22:25 GMT -5
Yes, I think if you study the issue of hair it says "the churches of God have no such customs" and also that nature does not teach that men will have short hair...Read it as it is written, not "interpreted" to line up with someones idea of what it really means.
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Post by ilylo on Dec 6, 2008 18:44:08 GMT -5
and right on cue in comes the Holy Loudspeaker himself to rant once again.
Fecal matter, thoughtless jackasses... and now puppy dogs. The insults never stop.
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Post by pablo on Dec 6, 2008 18:49:29 GMT -5
I could ask you if it's that time of month, but I won't.Very personal, very crude, uncalled for, not nice.
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Post by peridot on Dec 6, 2008 18:54:30 GMT -5
I could ask you if it's that time of month, but I won't.Very personal, very crude, uncalled for, not nice. typical 2x2=look at the response not the cause
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Post by Dubious Disciple (xdc) on Dec 6, 2008 19:16:07 GMT -5
I don't find anywhere in the Bible where a woman's hair is to be worn long so it is flattering and sexy. Let's fix the Bible, then, please. I tried to incorporate miniskirts, but got outvoted on that, so I will compromise and settle for long, sexy hair.
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Post by Sharon on Dec 6, 2008 20:34:52 GMT -5
I could ask you if it's that time of month, but I won't.Very personal, very crude, uncalled for, not nice. typical 2x2=look at the response not the cause I'll have to say, peridot! That I found that remark crude and uncalled for...it's okay to resist and desist, but to be crude isn't called for, is it? Somehow I don't see that as being really you!
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Post by gloryintruth on Dec 6, 2008 22:50:51 GMT -5
How does this work in "real life" as opposed to that twisted distortion field of sectarian bitterness? If a guy punches you in the mouth and breaks your molars, he gets brought before the magistrate to answer for his action - he might have been responding to a taunt; he might have been responding to a percieved sleight. That does not make the action morally right or legally acceptable.
Your response was vulgar. My mother would have said, "That's very lower class, dear". And no matter what it was that you responded to, it was still a vulgarity.
This coming from a woman who has condemned me in the past for my words, and never once considered the "cause", in the conduct of a certain masked madman on the TMB. Oh my! Hypocrisy runs deep among the tombs of this bog swamp that is the TMB. How clear it becomes that judgement is not for man; for neither I, nor you, nor anybody else is perfect. We each possess the faults for which we condemn others.
Let us therefore not suck from the sump pump of spiritual toxin; let us not wallow dung pile of the pigsty; let us not clothe our shopworn bellyaching with plausible excuses.
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